Affidavit: McVeigh had high-level help

[helderheid]

According to Oklahoma bombing conspirator, ranking officials were involved in the attack
By Pamela Manson
The Salt Lake Tribune
Article Last Updated: 02/21/2007 01:03:43 AM MST

Oklahoma City bombing conspirator Terry Nichols says a high-ranking FBI official "apparently" was directing Timothy McVeigh in the plot to blow up a government building and might have changed the original target of the attack, according to a new affidavit filed in U.S. District Court in Utah.

The official and other conspirators are being protected by the federal government "in a cover-up to escape its responsibility for the loss of life in Oklahoma," Nichols claims in a Feb. 9 affidavit.
Documents that supposedly help back up his allegations have been sealed to protect information in them, such as Social Security numbers and dates of birth.

The U.S. Attorney's Office in Utah had no comment on the allegations. The FBI and Justice Department in Washington, D.C., also declined comment.

Nichols does not say what motive the government would have to be involved in the bombing.

The affidavit was filed in a lawsuit brought by Salt Lake City attorney Jesse Trentadue, who believes his brother's death in a federal prison was linked to the Oklahoma City bombing. The suit, which seeks documents from the FBI under the federal Freedom of Information Act, alleges that authorities mistook Kenneth Trentadue for a bombing conspirator and that guards killed him in an interrogation that got out of hand.

Trentadue's death a few months after the April 19, 1995, bombing was ruled a suicide after several investigations. The government has adamantly denied any wrongdoing in the death.

In his affidavit, Nichols says he wants to bring closure to the survivors and families of the attack on the Alfred B. Murrah Federal Building, which took 168 lives. He alleges he wrote then-Attorney General John Ashcroft in 2004, offering to help identify all parties who played a role in the bombing but never got a reply.

MORE >>>

http://www.sltrib.com/SEARCH/ci_5271117

:wow:

[itsmesgd]

1. no tin foil hat, but damn they fried McVeigh really quick

Was the government trying to make sure that witness no.1 was silenced quickly and forever?

[helderheid]

2. I wonder if KO knows about this - I have the feeling the only reason I saw this is because it was a

local story.

[Jackpine Radical]

4. I been wondering about the speed of that execution

ever since the whole business happened. They put him down while there were still all kinds of "lost" FBI files that the defense hadn't had a chance to wade through. Ashcroft was just salivating to get the needles in. I always thought there was a reason, and everyone has been telling me to loosen up the tinfoil deflector beanie for years now.

[mzteris]

7. McVeigh didn't appeal -

most would happen quickly if the there weren't numerous appeals to delay.

[dogday]

10. He did not pass go or collect 200 hundred dollars

either... He went directly to death, and even though he waived the appeal process, seems like they bumped him up to the front of the line in my opinion.....

[petgoat]

19. Do we know for sure that he's dead? If they lock a guy up for

life, at least we can look in the cell and see that he's there.

I guess if you're going to execute people, you should use a
guillotine.

[Wilms]

69. Good one.

I, for one, ain't willing to bet he's dead.

[liberalhistorian]

63. No, that isn't the case; if you waive all of your appeals,

you will be executed fairly quickly, frankly. Before multiple appeals became common, and were even permitted under SUPCO rulings in the 60's, convicts were executed usually within less than a year of their conviction. If you waive all appeals, it will happen quickly. He wasn't bumped to the head of the line.

[Horse with no Name]

39. Appeals are automatic in death penalty cases

Generally fighting an appeal is almost of an exhaustive process as getting an appeal.

[RoyGBiv]

43. Correct, however ...

The apeals process can be shorter or longer depending on the vigor of the defendant, and only certain appeals are themselves automatic. You can drag it out for quite a long time with a good lawyer, or you can shorten it by not doing anything but the bare minimum filing.

McVeigh's time to execution seems very short indeed because the vast majority of defendants are vigorous in their own defense or have legal teams that are vigorous in their place, particularly if the convict is ruled incompetent.

[liberalhistorian]

64. McVeigh made it clear to his legal team that he didn't want

any protest or "vigorous defense", he made that choice himself. He wanted to be a "martyr" for his cause.

[RoyGBiv]

75. Precisely n/t

[karlrschneider]

47. Uh, it was lethal injection and it took six years...

:eyes:

[Cessna Invesco Palin]

50. Man, that must have sucked.

Lethal injection usually only takes about twenty minutes.

:hide:

[karlrschneider]

57. LOL

:spank: :banghead: :spray:

[Adelante]

70. Oh, good, good

:D

[Canuckistanian]

78. Hahaha!

:spray:

[hfojvt]

81. It was only 4 years between conviction

on 2 Jun 1997 and execution on 11 Jun 2001.
It was almost two years between indictment on 10 Aug 1995 and conviction.

[Initech]

72. I was thinking the same thing... this is a "shoot first and ask questions later" situation.

[helderheid]

3. MORE

McVeigh told him he was recruited for undercover missions while serving in the military, according to Nichols. He says he learned sometime in 1995 that there had been a change in bombing target and that McVeigh was upset by that.

"There, in what I believe was an accidental slip of the tongue, McVeigh revealed the identity of a high-ranking FBI official who was apparently directing McVeigh in the bomb plot," Nichols says in the affidavit.

Nichols also says that McVeigh threatened him and his family to force him to rob Roger Moore, an Arkansas gun dealer, of weapons and explosives. He later learned the robbery was staged so Moore, who was in on the phony heist, could deny any knowledge of the bombing plot if the stolen items were traced back to him, Nichols claims.

He adds that Moore allegedly told his attorney that he would not be prosecuted in connection with the bombing because he was a "protected witness."

Moore could not be reached for comment Tuesday.

In addition, Nichols says McVeigh must have had help building the bomb. The device he and McVeigh built the day before the bombing did not resemble the one that ultimately was used, Nichols says, and "displayed a level of expertise and sophistication" that neither man had.

[itsmesgd]

6. tin foil hat time:

I like the pic of Jose Padilla next to "John Doe no.2". We made sure that Padilla is broken beyond repair. He's too scared to talk about his case with his attorney.

[Clark2008]

27. It's already on the Net

[jberryhill]

80. Terry Nichols first wife...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Terry_Nichols

Nichols was twice married, first to Lana Padilla

http://www.cooperativeresearch.org/context.jsp?item=a080101oklamotel

August 1, 2001: Moussaoui Supposedly Seen With Hijackers in Oklahoma

A hotel owner in Oklahoma City will later claim that he saw Zacarias Moussaoui, Mohamed Atta, and Marwan Alshehhi together on or around this day. He will claim they come to his hotel late at night and ask for a room, but end up staying elsewhere. At the time, Moussaoui is living 28 miles away in Norman, Oklahoma (see February 23-June 2001). However, even though the US government will later struggle to find evidence directly connecting Moussaoui to any of the 9/11 hijackers, this account will not be cited by any US government officials or prosecutors. An article later will suggest this may be because of numerous reports and eyewitnesses claiming Timothy McVeigh and Terry Nichols stayed at the same hotel with a group of Middle Easterners in the weeks before the 1995 Oklahoma City bombing (see April 19, 1995)

[conscious evolution]

36. I'm glad to know

I'm not the only one who noticed the resemblance.
There is definitely more to this than meets the eye.

I was working on a US Army base in Europe when OKC went down.What was wierd was how the base went into secure mode before the bomb blew.
How did they know?

[Beelzebud]

5. And the death penalty silenced McVeigh forever. Mission Accomplished.

[Cessna Invesco Palin]

46. Yes.

And those goddamn scofflaws Janet Reno and Bill Clinton got away with it!!! I mean, I knew they were in cahoots with the UN, but this execution of a true patriot, this brilliant man, Timothy McVeigh, was a CRIME AGAINST THE REPUBLIC. Almost as bad as Clinton's debasing of the presidency through sexual contact with A FEMALE.

Whoops! Did I just say that?

[Beelzebud]

51. Actually I wasn't hinting at anything like that at all.

But if there is more to this story, I'd sure like to know about it, wouldn't you? If these fucks had help, and people went unpunished, something should be done, no?

BTW I'm anti-death penalty. I'm pretty firm on that. I'm against state sanctioned murder, no matter who it is.

[Bushwick Bill]

8. I wouldn't be surprised at all

having read the transcripts of Emad Salem's recordings in the 1993 Trade Center bombing.

[mod mom]

9. wasn't aware of this:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Emad_Salem

[petgoat]

22. Well don't be so cryptic. Emad Salem inflitrated the Blind

Sheikh's cell and told the FBI about the 93 WTC bomb plot a full year
before it happened.

He wanted to substitute harmless powder for the explosives, and his
FBI handlers over-ruled him. 6 people died! Nobody was punished.

The Blind Sheikh had come into the country on a special CIA visa even
though he was on a terrorist watch list.

Ali Mohammed, a US Army sergeant, trained the Blind Sheikh's people in
use of weapons. Though stolen army manuals were found with the Sheikh's
group, Ali Mohammed was not indicted. Later when he was arrested in
Canada for consorting with terrorists, a phone call to the FBI got him
out of jail in one hour.

He admitted to participating in the African embassy bombings. His
plea bargain was very complicated and negotiated by Patrick Fitzgerald.
Ali Mohammed was never sentenced and nobody knows where he is today.

Very strange stuff. See Peter Lance "1000 Years for Revenge"
and "Triple Cross."

[Leopolds Ghost]

73. During the Fitz trial, The Blind Sheikh revealed threats to fly planes into the WTC and GW Bridge.

It was all over the media. Shortly thereafter, when US News and World Report essentially dismissed a Bin Laden allegation that Al Quaeda possessed nukes, I seriously considered firing off a letter to USN&WR asking them why they weren't taking Al Qaeda's threats seriously, ESPECIALLY the threat to use planes as weapons and fly them into the GW Bridge "and other targets". I sure wish I had written that letter.

Does anyone besides me remmber the Al Qaeda threats -- published in major media publications -- to "use the enemy's jetplanes" and fly planes into the GW Bridge?

This is not tinfoil hat time, I'm asking if you remember reading about it, since I almost fired off a letter about it. Did you?

[Turbineguy]

11. So maybe this was supposed to be the "Pearl Harbor"

that PNAC talked about? If so, the mission was not accomplished. Clinton was relected in 1996. I believe PNAC was not officially established until 1997 but the elements were well in place.

[Cessna Invesco Palin]

49. Yes.

It was part of PNAC's brilliant plan to give the executive branch, headed by known neoconservative activist William Jefferson Clinton, absolute power. Alas, their plan did not succeed.

[Junkdrawer]

62. Try this on for size....

someone kept trying to force Clinton's hand and make him commit to a Middle East war, but either the Clinton FBI uncovered some of the domestic actors, hushed it up, or identified it as the work of a small terror group.

See also:

Flight 800...
WTC 1993..
African embassy bombings..
Attack on the Cole...

So then it was decided to put their own guys in charge and go for a MUCH bigger attack....

[JoseNarof]

12. I've always been suspicious

I don't think we got the full story

[helderheid]

15. welcome to DU

:hi:

[JoseNarof]

17. Thank you kind person

[helderheid]

18. Most welcome

[godless]

56. Didn't get the full story??? LOL! It doesn't strike anybody as

extremely odd that not one single FBI agent was at work that day? Even tho the FBI were the supposed target? Natch, there are stories out there on the Internet that some of the aforementioned agents have claimed subsequently that they were warned not to report on that day. Of course, that's just Tin Foil Hat stuff.

[liberalhistorian]

66. Yes, and Jews were warned to stay away from

the WTC on 9/11. Please. :rolleyes:

[Blackhatjack]

13. If Nichols filed an affidavit in a public case, someone must have a copy of it ....

I would be interested in seeing a copy of the affidavit filed with the Court. It would be highly unusual for the Court to seal the affidavit of a witness. It would be more likely that the Court would order supporting documentation be filed under seal, and any references in the public affidavit to sealed information be redacted.

If there is no copy of the affidavit in the public domain, I would be very suspicious of its existence.

[KittyWampus]

14. Richard Clarke doesn't discount possiblity that Nichols met with alQaida operatives

On Page 127, Clarke notes that it's possible that al-Qaida operatives in the Philippines "taught Terry Nichols how to blow up the Oklahoma Federal Building." Intelligence places Nichols there on the same days as Ramzi Yousef, and "we do know that Nichols's bombs did not work before his Philippines stay and were deadly when he returned."

[helderheid]

16. That opens a whole can of worms regarding other terror attacks.

[petgoat]

21. I think Peter Lance talks about this too.

Also note the credible reports that unexploded devices were found in the
building, which makes the whole thing a lot bigger than some loony redneck
with a Ryder truck.

Former OK state legislator Charles Key has been traveling about talking about
this. Also Jayna Davis, a former TV news reporter.

[Ezlivin]

42. "[C]redible reports that unexploded devices were found..."

People are amazed upon hearing this. Yet there are hours of footage from television and radio crews who report that multiple bombs were found and disarmed. Transcripts from local police and sheriff transmissions also show discussions of the additional explosive devices. Combine this with the fact that the FBI confiscated all video evidence (from multiple cameras around the area) and the fact that the BATF office was empty (and a BATF officer is on record saying that they were warned) and you can only conclude that there is much more to the story.

In addition to all this, a version of the Patriot Act was quickly introduced into Congress. Hmmmm.

[Cessna Invesco Palin]

55. Yup, this proves it.

God damn that bastard Clinton. I knew he was slimy, but this is incredible.

[Leopolds Ghost]

74. Why do you think this has anything to do with Clinton?

There are three branches of the government in Washington.

The appointed government, run by the President.

The civil service, which keeps things running and tries to protect its funding. This includes the Defense Department.

The permanent government, a coalition of security industries, lobbyists, beltway bandits, and defense contractors, including heavy funding for black-ops, most of which is just pork for high-tech engineering firms,

but a small portion of the budget involved in this ring of politically connected "contractors" handle drug money and highly immoral covert activity (torture, assassinations, false flag operations, information gathering, domestic propaganda and media manipulation).

They gather annually at the Dulles Security Trade Fair to
trade war stories and brag about illegal operations they were
a part of or helped supply and fund.

[happydreams]

31. If true that links McVeigh to the CIA. But then

first you have to believe, as I do, that Al CIAda, is just that.

[RoyGBiv]

20. Give me an f-ing break ...

I'm so sick of hearing the garbage spew out of that man I want to hurl even when I see his name.

And as for all the "they executed McVeigh awful quick" comments, this is a really simply thing to answer. All you have to do is look up the federal appeals process, how it works, and what happens when codemnded individuals waive certain parts of the process. Everything else occurs according to a timeline.

[rman]

25. temper, temper

No need to be rude.

[RoyGBiv]

38. Think that was rude?

No, that was reserved.

Come visit me where I work, and we'll wander around the office while you listen to what other people here think of Terry Nichol's incessant, innane ramblings. Then you'll know rude.

[goclark]

23. I have always believed that he had help

lots of help.

[H2O Man]

35. I do not know

a lot about the case. I have read a book "American Terrorist," by Lou Michel and Dan Herbeck. And I've read a few newspaper and magazine articles, from different points of view. It seems to me that there are a few pieces of the picture that are missing. I do not think the trial answered all the questions that sincere and intelligent people have raised.

[Atman]

24. Jose Padilla = OK's "John Doe"

Here is the police sketch of the "John Doe" many people reported seeing with McVeigh. Bears a curious resemblance to the only US citizen held as an enemy combatant, even though they had nothing on him. Things that make you go "hmmmmmmm."



.

[helderheid]

26. OH MY!

:wow:

[happydreams]

32. Jaw hit floor. nt

[Morgana LaFey]

44. But he's only about 25 NOW -- 21 or less when originally picked up

on the dirty bomb nonsense charge. That would've made him about 12 at the time of the OKC bombing. (You do the math.)

[happydreams]

53. Yer, right. Scratch that idea. Maybe it

(((was his father)))

[Cessna Invesco Palin]

54. I believe he was born in 1970.

Which would have put him at about 24 years old at the time of the OKC bombing. Which proves nothing, of course. I suspect a great many people here are operating under the assumption that there is only one vaguely pudgey, short-haired, latino-looking person in all of the United States of America, which is what is required to believe that the sketch and the photo prove anything conclusive.

[Morgana LaFey]

59. Sorry, I just don't think he's that old. Only in his 20s NOW, I'm

almost certain. That would make his birth date around the time of the bombing. Roughly. If you find documentation to support your idea, by all means toss it up here.

[Junkdrawer]

61. Born October 18, 1970...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jos%C3%A9_Padilla_(alleged_terrorist)

[Morgana LaFey]

82. Okay, I stand corrected. Thanks for the info

I'll have to remember to give Wikipedia a quick try for things like that. Increasingly good resource, isn't it?

[helderheid]

60. Oh I feel silly now

[Atman]

77. Why...his age works, according to the other poster

The guys who said he's only in his early twenties have been shown to be wrong. I'm not saying this sketch proves anything "conclusive." Nothing is "conclusive" about anything with this administration, by design. I just through it out there because it DOES make you go "hmmm."

.

[helderheid]

79. Missed that - the similarities are stunning!

[Clark2008]

28. I can't believe this hasn't been moved to th 9/11 cellar yet.

I love reading this stuff.

Maybe it's because I was raised by a couple of hippies, but I've NEVER trusted my government (a healthy attitude to have when one majors in journalism, eh? )

[helderheid]

29. Maybe because it was posted in the Salt Lake Tribune and was about OK not 9/11?

:shrug:

[happydreams]

30. Well, they did find a copy of "The Turner Diaries" in

the trunk of his car. Turner>National Alliance>Benito Mussolini's granddaughter>House of Morgan's intimate link to Il Duce. :tinfoilhat:

[reprehensor]

33. Deseret News gives more detail:

http://deseretnews.com/dn/view/1%2C1249%2C660197443%2C00.html

"The most shocking allegation in the 19-page signed declaration is Nichols' assertion that the whole bombing plot was an FBI operation and that McVeigh let slip during a bout of anger that he was taking instruction from former FBI official Larry Potts.

Potts was no stranger to anti-government confrontations, having been the lead FBI agent at Ruby Ridge in 1992, which led to the shooting death of Vicki Weaver, the wife of separatist Randy Weaver. Potts also was reportedly involved in the 51-day siege of the Branch Davidian compound in Waco, Texas in 1993, which resulted in a fire that killed 81 Branch Davidian followers.

Potts retired from the FBI under intense pressure and criticism for the cover-up of an order to allow agents to shoot anyone seen leaving the Weaver cabin at Ruby Ridge.

When contacted, the FBI's main office in Washington, D.C., said it could not provide immediate comment on Nichols' claims Tuesday."

[helderheid]

34. Thank you for this! We're neighbors, aren't we? My memory sucks.

[Laughing Mirror]

37. This is what Gore Vidal told Amy Goodman, May 2003

AMY GOODMAN: Gore Vidal, you developed a relationship with Timothy McVeigh. Can you talk about that?

GORE VIDAL: I never met him, nor did we talk on the telephone, but we did exchange letters, he read a piece I wrote in Vanity Fair, about the shredding of the Bill of Rights, which has been further shredded since his death, and he wrote me a letter, and I wrote him back, and he wrote me some very informative letters about himself, he was very smart, knew the constitution backwards and forwards. I was struck by reading about his trial, at first I had no interest, he was the lone crazed killer, that our public must always have, Lee Harvey Oswald acted alone, we all know that, you can get the Warren Commission to say that, he was obviously not alone. But that worked so well that, the people always fall for it every time, so they decided that Timothy McVeigh, a rather slight young man, with no knowledge of explosives, had put together this two ton bomb, which he himself, and this guy called Nichols loaded on a Ryder truck -- it took at least 9 people it¹s been figured out, to get that bomb onto that truck, and then a very careful, experienced driver to get that thing without blowing himself up into Oklahoma City in front of the building. He was not alone, and we have a pretty good idea of some of the people he was associated with who might have been in on it. The FBI began quite professionally, they had infiltrated a lot of these Patriot movements out there in the middle-west, people who don¹t like the government and others who were as angry, as was McVeigh at what the federal government had done to the Branch Dividians at Waco, for McVeigh this was revenge upon at what he regarded was an odious government, a tyrannical government, he had gone out there and watched them using military, army stuff. And remember he was an army hero of the Gulf War, and he watched them break the law. The Posse Commitus Act of 1876. and in one of the letters to me, these are all reprinted in Perpetual War for Perpetual Peace, if you want to read McVeigh's actual words about it. He said Œ'You know soldiers are trained to kill. The police are trained to protect persons and property. These are two different functions. The justice dept. called in the army. They wanted tanks and all sorts of things, army material. With which they shot up the buildings that fired oil and people died.' There was once again no proper investigation. In the course of McVeigh's trial, which was a kind of joke, the FBI behaved pretty well, they had a lot of interesting leads, 305s I think they¹re called, they take down the evidence that people give them, directions in which to look and so on. They followed up nothing. And I wrote Louis Freeh who was then the head of the FBI, a letter which I include in the little book, a letter which I read aloud on the Today Show, just to make sure that he saw it, no answer, but I said there's certain very interesting leads here, and this is all from evidence at the pre-trials, which anybody can get at, and I said these should have been investigated, but they weren¹t, they decided it was McVeigh and that was it. Now a couple of days ago we find out that the FBI was faking it, some anti-McVeigh stuff in their labs, trying to prove that he built the bomb, that he had ammonia on his trousers or something. Well he may well have been in on it, I don¹t know, I'm not a prophet, but my impression is that he could not have done it alone. So there were others to follow up, and on television I said you¹ve got to start doing your job, at the FBI, at the Justice Department, your job is to protect persons and property. You didn¹t follow up there may be 100 McVeighs out there, waiting to take another crack at us. And you did nothing, cause you want to unload Gray¹s killer, and you wanted the book shut (SHUTS A BOOK). So what sort of government is this. I'd say a bad one.

http://www.democracynow.org/transcripts/gorevidal.shtml

[mhatrw]

40. Watch these local news reports from the day of the tragedy.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vMXMo3Z0qms&eurl

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JMBvX3P8IjE

[AnotherDreamWeaver]

41. Gore Vidal wrote in Vanity Fair Sept/2001

on Timothy: http://www.geocities.com/gorevidal3000/tim.htm
I read that and wondered about how much was "known and allowed" around 9/11
ADW

[Morgana LaFey]

45. So, any idea (anyone) of the purpose or motive??

I just can't figure out cui bono. So it doesn't (yet) make sense to me.

[happydreams]

52. The FBI claimed that "The Turner diaries" were the inspiration

for the bombing. This is a Clinton era FBI.
The novel depicts a violent racist revolutionary struggle in the United States that escalates into global genocide, leading to the extermination of all people who are not white. For novelist Pierce, this was the fulfillment of his "dream of a White world".

McVeigh was what I would call a "kick starter" of chaos with the added effect of giving Clinton a black eye; it also blends will with PNAC.

There is also a link between Islamic terrorism and our home-grown types. They all were derivatives of Nazi training all the way back to WWII when German Nazi Otto Skorzeny took the "Eastern ratline" to the Mid-East.

Check out Martin Lee's "The Beast Re-awakens".

I'm not concluding anything, just some thoughts


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Turner_Diaries

[Morgana LaFey]

58. Thanks

I'm with you: not concluding anything, but you did at least give me some things to think about, which I appreciate.

[blockhead]

48. Terry Nichols:

" no, there are crazy people out there!" - Bowling for Columbine

he's a wack job.

[Fridays Child]

65. I wonder if he was an MK-Ultra victim. eom

[liberalhistorian]

67. And we should believe what Terry Nichols

says because.......................................???

[Greyhound]

83. Agreed, but with what is known of our governments complicity in so

many things over the decades, eliminates ruling it out as well. The problem with secrecy and disinformation, and that's the point isn't it?

[StrictlyRockers]

68. From what I have read, there is a lot of evidence pointing to gov't involvement.

There is a lot of information on this subject out there if you search. The bombs were pre-placed and the government's account of things has holes and gaps that don't make sense.

SR

[mikelewis]

71. Watch Brig. General Ben Partin's take on Oklahoma City... Absolutely Amazing...

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=4224779103128976372&q=okc+bombing

[Initech]

76. I've wondered that about OK City...

There's no fucking way in hell those two guys had the technology and resources needed to build a bomb that could take out a 12 story building. They had to have had help coming from somewhere.