Justice Department says OUTSIDE PROSECUTOR

[malaise]

FOR THE TAPES' INVESTIGATION.

This is very big news. MSNBC.

Happy New Year Justice!!!

http://talkingpointsmemo.com/news/2008/01/us_to_launch_criminal_probe_of.php
Add earlier link

[H2O Man]

1. John Durham.

He is good. Reno brought him in on the FBI-Mob scandal in Bean Town. He is a serious prosecutor. I'm surprised he is being called.

[malaise]

2. Wow

Great news. A great start to 2008.

[H2O Man]

6. I was expecting

that they would call someone else. This is really good news. It doesn't mean the administration won't try to run interference. But this makes it harder for them.

[aquart]

5. Google has good things on him.

<http://www.google.com/search?q=%22John+H.+Durham%22+prosecutor&hl=en&start=0&sa=N>

[H2O Man]

8. He has

very good organizational skills.

[malaise]

10. Nice new link

http://www.mercurynews.com/breakingnews/ci_7863756?nclick_check=1

<snip>
The Justice Department opened a criminal investigation into the destruction of CIA interrogation videotapes and Attorney General Michael B. Mukasey appointed an outside prosecutor to oversee the case.


"The Department's National Security Division has recommended, and I have concluded, that there is a basis for initiating a criminal investigation of this matter, and I have taken steps to begin that investigation," Mukasey said in a statement released Wednesday.

Mukasey named John Durham, a federal prosecutor in Connecticut, to oversee the case. Durham has a reputation as one of the nation's most relentless prosecutors. He served as an outside prosecutor overseeing an investigation into the FBI's use of mob informants in Boston and helped send several Connecticut public officials to prison.

[spotbird]

37. Durham reports to Mukasey=

Government investigates itself.

[H2O Man]

46. The chances of

a foreign government being asked to investigate this seemed rather remote. Hence, it should come as no real surprise that Washington is involved.

At this point, one can speculate on what degree of independence John Durham will have. But it is speculation.

It would seem safe to say that the White House will attempt every defensive maneuver possible.

[spotbird]

52. Those aren't the only choices.

We don't need to speculate, we know Durham is an assistant AG, in the chain of command of the Attorney General.

One need not worry about losing the game when the opponent is on your team.

[fascisthunter]

51. I Was Hoping to Read Your Approval of This Man

Well... no we shall see how far this goes. I have my doubts it will amount to anything since Mukasey has approved of this.

[rodeodance]

60. thanks fore the info.

[Toots]

69. But he is not Independent, he takes his orders from the Just Us Dept

I have little faith in him being allowed to complete a full investigation..

[gateley]

3. Biden has been calling for this since DAY ONE, but was met with derision and

charges of over-reacting.

He's said that we CAN NOT trust Bush's DOJ to investigate.

Joe was right. Again.

[malaise]

Yes indeed n/t

[aquart]

7. Score for your team.

[robinlynne]

11. score for our team! (And I'm an Edwards/Kucinich supporter).

[gateley]

23. I agree robinlynne -- score for us all! nt

[Buzz Clik]

4. Outstanding. K&R

[annabanana]

9. Pretty big news!

Will he have "free rein" over where this investigation goes?

[spotbird]

31. Not even close

he reports to Mukasey.

[Richard Steele]

12. Kicked and recommended!

[Blarch]

13. So, the BIG question.

Who's the fall guy ?

Certainly the truth won't be known.

[bluesmail]

70. why it's Rodrigues, of course

always has been, and a K&R edited for spelling

[suffragette]

14. great news to begin the year

To justice, to peace :toast:

[malaise]

21. Cheers!

I'll drink to that :toast:

[cali]

15. This brings tears to my eyes.

and a grudging thanks to Mukasey.

[Javaman]

16. Meh...

I'll wait to see who it is before I celebrate.

[malaise]

19. Read H2Os post above

and the nice new link I posted.

[spotbird]

22. What is this prosecutor outside of?

I'm very confused by the term, since he works at DOJ, he reports to the AG. The AG is a Bush lackey.

[malaise]

24. From the link

Mukasey named John Durham, a federal prosecutor in Connecticut, to oversee the case. Durham has a reputation as one of the nation's most relentless prosecutors. He served as an outside prosecutor overseeing an investigation into the FBI's use of mob informants in Boston and helped send several Connecticut public officials to prison.

http://www.answers.com/topic/united-states-office-of-the-independent-counsel?cat=biz-fin
<snip>
independent counsel in U.S. law, a judicially appointed investigator of charges of misdeeds by high government officials. Originally termed “special prosecutor,” the position was first created by the 1978 Ethics in Government Act. Prompted by the Watergate affair, the purpose of the law was to avoid the conflict of interest that might develop if the executive branch (i.e., the Justice Dept.) investigated its own officials. The act expired in 1992, but a new independent counsel law was passed in 1994. The new law also permitted the investigation of members of Congress. The request for an appointment of an independent counsel was made by the attorney general; the counsel was appointed by an independent judicial board. An independent counsel was used to investigate the Iran-contra affair, Whitewater, and the Lewinsky scandal. In 1999, following prosecutor Kenneth Starr's confrontations with President Bill Clinton and the impeachment of the president, the law again expired and was not renewed. The attorney general now has sole responsibility for appointing outside prosecutors.

H2O man can weigh in on whether Congress needs to pass a new law.
add

[spotbird]

26. So you think they are the same thing?

Maybe they are, but CNN was very specific that they are not. It wouldn't be the first time CNN was wrong, I do wonder why the word "outside" has been substituted for "special." I also wonder why they are using a current DOJ prosecutor, normally an independent prosecutor is not part of government.

Will this guy have the authority of a special prosecutor? Will he remain as a DOJ employee? To whom will he report? If he reports to Mukasey, he is not independent, but very much a part of the government, regardless of his reputation, he will be unable to prosecute above his pay grade.

[malaise]

41. No I don't but who appoints a Special Prosecutor? n/t

[spotbird]

45. The better question is

who they report to, Ken Starr did not report to the AG. He was appointed by a judicial panel, but that law has expired. Clearly the judgment of that panel was poor, but that one instance should not indict the whole process. The prosecutor should not be a zealot, except for the truth. It is impossible to expect an employee to independently investigate his employer, as is the case here.


The AG can appoint an independent prosecutor, but gives up control of the process when he does so. That issue goes to the integrity of this so-called investigation.

[malaise]

47. Well that's what's needed n/t

[DCKit]

64. God would I love to see a fishing expedition on the scale of the...

Whitewater/Lewinsky "scandal". We'd double the National Debt just buying tackle.

[bobthedrummer]

17. Reopen the Church Committee findings as well-k&r

[spotbird]

18. What is the difference between an

outside prosecutor and an independent prosecutor?

The initial release was very clear that this is not an independent prosecutor.

[HCE SuiGeneris]

20. Please don't let it all evaporate into the smoke and mirrors

I have been accustomed to witness.

[spanone]

25. K&R this is good news.

[spotbird]

27. Hardly, the guy reports to Mukasey

He could be the most honest prosecutor in history, and he still won't be able to do a God damned thing. This is more of the same.

[redqueen]

28. Finally...

:party:

[spotbird]

29. Why is this good news?

The government is still investigating itself. Unless special powers are given there is no hope at all for this investigation, zero.

It's another bamboozle.

[redqueen]

30. Good point re: "outside" vs. "special"...

Frick.

[spotbird]

32. Sorry. nt

[redqueen]

34. No need...

thanks for stopping my premature excitement before it really got started. :hi:

[spotbird]

35. Happy New Year!

Just like the Old Year.

[malaise]

40. Does a law have to be passed by Congress to

appoint a Special prosecutor? Who appoints a Special Prosecutor?

[spotbird]

48. Mukasey could appoint one,

but won't.

The problem with leaving the authority to the AG is that they have, at best, divided loyalties. The last two don't even have split loyalties, they are servants to the executive.

[malaise]

54. This administration does not give us reason for

optimism but one of these days the bottom will fall out of this bucket of corruption and criminality. I'll take a start here.

[spotbird]

56. This would be as good a starting point as

any. But this won't be it.

[Horse with no Name]

33. Sweet. n/t

[debbierlus]

36. That is good news!

[Generator]

38. Maybe Patrick Fitzgerald is available

After that bang up job with the Plame case, I'm sure he can make this one as meaningless as well.

[Wizard777]

63. Really Fitz didn't even do a Starr and question Bush about sex with Condi or Scott Guckert.

For Christ sakes Guckert is an internet prostitute!

[Didereaux]

39. Somebody put some HEAVY pressure on somebody!

would love to see the chain of events and actors in this little episode. Bet one damn thing it didn't include any of our Congressional 'Leaders'. Biden, Kennedy seem good bets to be in on it. Whatever, keep your fingers crossed because it could still wind up a whitewashed stonewall.

[spotbird]

55. Yep,

Bush pressured Mukasey to be damned sure Mukasey didn't lose control of the process.

[AntiFascist]

42. K&R, a great way to start the New Year...

:party:

[spanone]

43. Error: You've already recommended that thread......kick for justice

[malaise]

44. Who appoints the Special Prosecutor?

Didn't Justice appoint Fitzgerald?

[spanone]

49. here's a Times story

WASHINGTON (AP) -- Attorney General Michael Mukasey appointed an outside prosecutor Wednesday to lead a criminal investigation into the destruction of CIA interrogation videotapes.

The CIA acknowledged last month that it destroyed videos of officers using tough interrogation methods while questioning two al-Qaida suspects. The acknowledgment sparked a congressional inquiry and a preliminary investigation by Justice.

''The Department's National Security Division has recommended, and I have concluded, that there is a basis for initiating a criminal investigation of this matter, and I have taken steps to begin that investigation,'' Mukasey said in a statement released Wednesday.

http://www.nytimes.com/aponline/us/AP-CIA-Videotapes.html?_r=1&hp=&oref=slogin&pagewanted=print

[spotbird]

53. Not the tiniest bit hopeful. nt

[malaise]

66. Neither was Turley on KO last night

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/21134540/vp/22478733#22478733

[spotbird]

71. Thank you

Turley said it so much hetter then I was able.

[spotbird]

50. It was a very unusual circumstance.

Ashcroft, for all his twisted views, did have a shred of integrity. When the in house investigation looked like it was leading to Rove, with whom Ashcroft had long ties, Ashcroft recused himself and left the decisions up to James Comey. Comey also had a conscience, although he was a partisan. Notice neither of these man had much of a career in the Bush administration.

Comey in turn selected Fitzgerald, and gave him extraordinary powers.

[malaise]

57. Comey surprised me on many levels

Of course after that Gonzo invasion of the hospital room, he had reason to demand a Special Prosecutor for any or all of these criminals and law breakers.

[spotbird]

58. I don't remember the time-line,

but it's safe that both he and Ashcroft knew they were way out of their league early on.

[OzarkDem]

59. Great news!

Let's hope they don't sweep it under the rug.

[rodeodance]

61. Durham has a reputation as one of the most relentless U.S. prosecutors.

Mukasey named John Durham, a federal prosecutor, to oversee the case. Durham has a reputation as one of the most relentless U.S. prosecutors. He served as an outside prosecutor overseeing an investigation into the FBI's use of mob informants in Boston and helped send several Connecticut public officials to prison.

[BuyingThyme]

62. kcik

[Nutmegger]

65. Ah yes, he investigate our corrupt Repuke Gov. Rowland.

Interesting developments. R&K

[napi21]

67. The thing that bothers me is that Johnathan Turley was on with Keith

Olbermann tonight and he thought it was a scam because this prosecutor stll workd for Mukasey. I trust Turley, and I can't help but be skeptical because of his opinion. However, I did get a glimer of hope with this post tonight becase I trst the opinion of H2O Man too!

[malaise]

68. I posted the KO link with Turley

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/21134540/vp/22478733#22478733

Like you I trust H2O Man. I know we want Bush, Cheney, Rove, Addington et al, but Fitzgerald did give us Scooter and he was a big fish.

We also got Gonzo and a few others.