Did you all know that China is building 4 Mega-refineries?

[SoCalDem]

They have also made long term oil deals with Sudan, Algeria, Angola and other off-the beaten track oil producing countries. Recently they also many some long-term deals with South American countries for natural gas.

How are they doing this?

They can do (and are doing) this because we buy just about everything from them.

The extra money they have now is also rebuilding their military, and their infrastructure, as ours are breaking down and being used up.

Chairman Mao wanted the "great leap forward", but what he got was millions of poor people on bicycles, who had difficulty finding their next meal.

China of today bears little resemblance to that China.

The price we pay at the pump is directly related to the plastic crap we import by the shipload.

Our corporations have sold us all out, and since manufacturing has all but disappeared here, we are beholden to the imported crap.

Anyone who has ever been in serious debt trouble can predict what happens "next"..
Paying the debt becomes ever more onerous, and the real debt never gets paid, since every payment is mostly interest ..

The debt holder likes it that way, since they have leverage, and unless we want to be "cut off", we have to agree to their terms.

This is not China's fault. They are only doing what WE did as a young country. they are developing their country. We all hated it when China was a closed off society, and we begged them to join the modern world. Well..they have done it now, and as usual, our leaders did not plan ahead for the implications to our country..so we will all suffer the consequences.

[Junkdrawer]

1. I've always said that part of the motivation for the Iraq invasion...

was to gain leverage in Chinese relations by making them get their oil through us...

They, of course, will seek alternate supplies...

[wuushew]

2. Nixon going to China was the worst mistake ever

Was increasing the environmental burden on the Earth and gutting our manufacturing base worth the perceived benefits of counter balancing the Russians?

[Junkdrawer]

3. Short term profits.....

Long term decline...

[Virginia Dare]

7. Poppy was Ambassador to China during the Nixon Administration..

why is it that everything bad that happens in this country, there's a Bush someplace nearby?

[kineneb]

4. China owns us: trade imbalance and excess $ holdings

not to mention they (and other sovereign wealth nations) are buying up interests in US companies with all their extra dollars.

We have already lost the trade "war" with them, we just have not realized it yet. We should be learning Mandarin.

[Saboburns]

5. Good for China!!

Good for the Chinese People.

I get sick of hearing how scared I'm supposed to be of China.

Good for them, good for their people.

We Americans have a chance to learn from them. But it is so ingrained into ouselves, that our Empire is under attack, most people see China as a threat, and get creases on their foreheads when China comes up.

Good for China.

Well done.

[Virginia Dare]

9. Except the "people" aren't necessarily benefiting from all of this wealth..

the vast majority of the wealth goes into the hands of the authoritarian government leaders and mostly the military. The pervasive poverty and human rights abuses are still jawdropping.

I'll applaud for the Chinese people when democracy and justice are afforded them.

[Saboburns]

11. Well then

China is kinda like us, huh??

[Virginia Dare]

14. No, not by a long long shot...n/t

[NickB79]

15. Hooray, melt them ice caps, pollute those rivers!

Now where did I put that "We're #1" foam-rubber finger, so I can cheer on the apocalypse?

[Tierra_y_Libertad]

6. The Sleeping Dragon turned out to be a better capitalist.

The irony is delicious that the feared "communists" could be so much better at our beloved institution than we are.

"The capitalists will sell us the rope with which we will hang them." V.I. Lenin

[Virginia Dare]

8. They'll make the same greedy stupid mistakes we did though..

they're already outsourcing to Africa.

[Tierra_y_Libertad]

13. Empires rise and fall. Usually for similar reasons.

The USA has had a fairly short run as empires go. But, the good news is that we may be reduced to a fragmented, 2nd rate, "power", like, say, Scandinavia. With no need to spend billions "defending" our "vital national interests" and killing millions of people to do it.

Alas, we're probably to dumb to go quietly into retirement as an ex-super power.

[RB TexLa]

10. You do know you can invest in the companies that are building them?

[SoCalDem]

12. "Some" people probably already have.. But there is more to life

than fondling one's portfolio :evilgrin:

[LanternWaste]

16. It's simply matter of time before the China and the Pacific Rim nations...

It's simply matter of time before the China and the Pacific Rim nations become the world's largest economy and hence, the new superpower.

I figure that within approximately fifty years, America will begin the same dance that Great Britain was forced to begin after WWII, going from superpower/superhero to a nation with no more nor no less pull than most other industrialized nations.

[Ezlivin]

17. I wonder what grade of crude they'll refine?

In 2004 OPEC called for greater investment in sour crude processing capacity.

[NickB79]

18. China is gearing up to process Venezuela's oil in a big way

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/business/4123465.stm

Venezuela's largest remaining reserves are (surprise!) their heavy sour crude.

[SoCalDem]

19. My guess is that they will build some refineries for ALL grades

They have few, if any regulations in place,and they have tons o'cash, so why not build all kinds of refineries..That would make them "King of Oil " in short order.. They could use any kind they could buy,m and they have plenty of money.

odd isn't it? Our so-called american oil companies have subsidies and are still making billions of PURE profit, and they claim they cannot "afford" to build refineries here :eyes:

the oil industry has the power to bankrupt us, as a nation, and it's too dangerous to allow it to be in the hands of greedy individuals/corporations.

It's a security issue

[Javaman]

20. It will be very amusing in about 3 - 5 years when the exporting countries

have to cut their output to foreign nations due to high demand in their own nations.

That won't play well in Beijing.

[madrchsod]

21. ...for all you kids out there....

there once were businesses called, "joes" small appliance repair, that fixed appliance that were made in america and could actually be fixed if something went wrong....honest! we did`t throw things in the trash or "recycle" because they could be fixed...today we just toss the 20 dollar piece of crap from wal mart in the trash and go by another.

do we really need a shaving handle that vibrates or a tooth brush with a digital read-out?

[SoCalDem]

23. or an iPod with a remote control

That one always cracks me up :)

[dysfunctional press]

22. "China of today bears little resemblance to that China."

not once you leave the big cities- there are still millions of poor people on bicycles, and with no electricity or running water.

[SoCalDem]

24. Unfortunately, the cities are drawing more and more people to them

as the one (male) child fiasco comes home to roost.

Females in small villages are not willing to lead the same agrarian lives as their parents (especically since they are a hot commodity).. money is easier to come by in cities, as are wealthier men.. and for the younger men in villages without any hope of marrying., the city offers them a chance..

The villages are very much in danger of being populated by forced labor and old decrepit people trying to stay alive without their child(ren) to help support them,..

Not a pretty sight in either case:(

[truedelphi]

25. And the water they have is not drinkable

From a health stand point, but as it is all they ahve, they have to drink it.

[truedelphi]

26. And the water they have is not drinkable

From a health stand point, but as it is all they ahve, they have to drink it.

[catmandu57]

27. I don't think bankruptcy as we used to know it is an option

The time was when the debt load got too heavy a person could walk away from it and start fresh. I don't see us as a country being able to do that. The worst part of it is we'll probably have to be slapped down to make us accept the fact that we really aren't god's anointed super power.