Why is there so much "negativity" on DU?

[kentuck]

Is it because DUers see and know too much? Or is it because we see conspiracies everywhere? Are we realists or just paranoid?

[BlueJazz]

1. Mainly..because the majority of us don't have our Heads up our Asses.

:) ...That's the Scientific explanation.

[mod mom]

13. Exactly. How much of a clusterfuck can people take:

I just watched Spike Lee's "When the Levees Broke"last night. Why was this rat bastard of a pResident tarred and feathered after Katrina?
or after failing to heed warnings about 9/11?
or for starting an illegal/immoral war based on revenge and profiteering?
Why haven't we caught OBL? maybe-because he has direct connection to the bu$h family?
Why can't we have real investigations into fraudulent elections that placed the rat bastard in the first place?
Why has no one been jailed for the politicization of the DoJ? Vote caging?
What about the gross profiteering that occurred while our military did not have proper body armor?
What about the complicity of the media or even in our party?

FOLKS ARE PISSED! and rightfully so!

[Ezlivin]

2. Yeah, we should have a band playing like they had aboard the Titanic

For many of us we are on the USS Titanic and it's hard to get cheerful about our course. You can strike up the band all you want, but who really wants to dance when we're so poorly navigating an iceberg-strewn path in a ship with a drunken pilot?

[Joe Fields]

7. I'd laugh my head off, if it wasn't so sad and true.

Good line.

[RaleighNCDUer]

19. You're confusing the Titanic with the Exxon Valdez.

Captain Smith wasn't drunk - Captain Hazelton, er, Hazelwood was. Smith was just asleep, it being 1:00 am.

[TahitiNut]

31. Yep. They should have ELECTED a new captain! That would've done it.

:dunce:

[bobbolink]

45. You're really twisted.

I like that in a person.

:hi:

[TahitiNut]

54. (grin) Well, the nut doesn't fall far from the tree.

Unless it gets swallowed by some beast, carried far and yon in its belly, then shat upon the ground ... :silly:

:hug: :hi:

[bobbolink]

60. A twisted tree! I knew I could count on you!

I love driving in the mountains, and seeing the trees at treeline.

Their lives are difficult, and they are twisted and windblown. I can relate. ^_^

What I don't want to think about is how the nut is readied for germination by going through th intestinal system. GAK. I mean, I can relate, but..... ^_^

I guess that's what "intestinal fortitude" could mean...

OKay, time to stop. :evilgrin:

:hug: :hi:

[bdamomma]

48. I wish we could just throw him overboard.

[catmandu57]

3. Well for myself

I'm just numb, I'm beyond shock and outrage, at whatever crimes are revealed today, negativity is easier to carry.

[IDemo]

4. Just because we're paranoid doesn't mean the Thought Crime Bill doesn't exist

or the Military Commissions Act, or warrantless wiretapping, or election theft, or..

:hide:

[NV Whino]

5. Too many rats in the maze.

[BushOut06]

6. Look around you

We live in a country where the last two elections have been outright stolen. We thought we had the last election won, all the exit polling data showed that we were winning, and then 'POOF' - the rethugs miraculously pull out the victory! We're embroiled in a war that even our own party leadership doesn't seem to have the stomach to end. * seems hellbent on creating as much chaos and misery around the world.

I'd say there's a reason why not many of us are feeling chipper.

[RaleighNCDUer]

20. And having not addressed that issue, I see a LOT to be negative

about when people say that we are a lock for '08.

[BlueJac]

8. 30 years of conservative destruction.......

with the last 7 years of hell make people just a touch negative. You must of missed something!

[babylonsister]

9. Desperation? nt

[ixion]

10. anyone who is not outraged (or suffering from outrage fatigue)

is either brain dead or ignorant in the extreme.

[kentuck]

15. "Outrage fatigue"

I think that explains it well. How much more can we take before we break? Ignorance is bliss has never been truer.

[rhiannon55]

11. Since we pay attention, we DO see and know too much...

and it all wears badly on our spirits. And we see conspiracies everywhere because there ARE conspiracies everywhere--how else would evil, self-serving people have accomplished so much?

I would rather be a "negative" realist who cares about the rest of the world than a "positive" apologist for the status quo.

That's my take on it, anyway...

[demnan]

12. Because we elected the Democrats to Congress

and they haven't done squat to get us out of Iraq, restore our Constitutional rights or impeach these sons of bitches.

And we can't help but wonder what kind of power they wield.

[RufusEarl]

14. Because there is so much negativity all around us,

and people here at Du are able to see and understand it.

Peace!

[Uncle Joe]

16. We're paranoid because we're realists, if you're not paranoid,

you're not paying attention.

[ecstatic]

46. Well I think the conflict here is due to idealists vs. realists; optimists vs. pessimists nt

[Uncle Joe]

51. While I believe there is some truth in what you say,

I was just answering these questions by the O.P.

"Is it because DUers see and know too much? Or is it because we see conspiracies everywhere? Are we realists or just paranoid?"

Edited for bolding purposes.

[RaleighNCDUer]

17. Just because we're paranoid it doesn't mean the conspiracies

don't exist.

[Blarch]

18. [b]"Why is there so much "negativity" on DU?"[/b]

Because we were just betrayed by our party in the worst possible manner.

Some on DU are willing to overlook this.....again, most are not.

[cgrindley]

21. Conspiracies are NOT everywhere

it's a huge problem and irritation trying to debate with people who constantly retreat to a tinfoil hat CIA mind control oil company position. It's like trying to argue with Creationists. I don't know if it's because some people on DU just don't know very much about the mundane and predictable nature of geopolitics, political science and history (I don't know what percentage of people here have at least some college), or if some people on DU are crazy, or if some people on DU are just being difficult on purpose. I usually give people the benefit of the doubt and figure that they're just being obtuse, sort of trolling the boundaries of reason.

[cgrindley]

23. Preliminary results on my poll suggest that people at DU

are merely being difficult and argumentative on purpose and don't really being in some of the crazy shit they claim to believe in.

[kentuck]

25. Do you think there is any "negativity" here at DU?

If so, why?

Or do you prefer to look down your nose at people?

[cgrindley]

26. You're going to have to define negativity a whole lot better

what do you mean, exactly?


PS with the size of my nose, I basically have no other choice.

[Marrah_G]

28. I know the feeling

I had to walk away from a thread yesterday because a poster wanted me to prove al qaeda existed. I knew no matter what I said it would all be part of the great conspiracy.

[cgrindley]

37. My heart goes out to you (nt)

[BushOut06]

52. Just because they're not everywhere, doesn't mean they don't exist

While I don't buy into every theory floated out there, I think that there are some that are quite plausible, and bear examining. History has proven that secret conspiracies can and do happen. We've seen "false flag" operations in our own history (ie USS Maine). Was 9-11 a government conspiracy? I personally don't think so, but I'm not going to call anyone who believes that crazy.

It's completely plausible that there is a widespread effort within the GOP to steal elections - there is ample evidence that the last two presidential elections were stolen.

We know that * and his cabal want to force "democracy" - at least their version of it - down the throats of countless countries around the world. Who knows what methods they've employed in their quest? There are plenty of highly classified, covert operations within our government, who knows what they're all up to?

[bridgit]

22. naw, its a function of having "earphone phone heads they got dirty beds its the 20th century"...

[L. Coyote]

24. We each experience a different DU. Like shopping for groceries really, pick what you want.

[TahitiNut]

27. I don't see "negativity" on DU. Why do you hate America?

:dunce:

[hfojvt]

29. it is any number of things

1. it's self-reinforcing, constant contact leads to a degree of contamination, reading negativity makes you think more negatively

2. it's not the negativity alone, it's the exxageration too - "It was the worst of times." Bush isn't just a terrible, horrible, awful, no good, very bad President, he's the moral equivalent of Hitler. The economy is not just entering a recession, it's on the brink of a total meltdown. Iraq (4 years, 500,000 casualties) is worse than Vietnam (8 years, 2 million casualties). Person A (either a politician, pundit, or DUer) is not just wrong or misinformed, they are a complete a$$hole moran.

3. #2 is typical of exxageration. Without facts on hand, a hyperbolism is easily within reach. Were statements like that actually made? If so, how common are they?

4. Fear of the future. There seem to be many Cassandras here. Not only upset about what has happened, but with dire predictions about what is gonna happen. Bush is gonna cancel the election. Bush is gonna goto war with Iran.

5. Again, it is not like I am immune to #4. I made dire predictions about Bush in October of 2000, and I have made dire predictions about Hillary, and am even more scared of a Giuliani Presidency.

6. In terms of "know too much" some of that is focus. We "know too much" bad news, and some of it is exxagerated bad news. Like the executive order that was gonna allow Bush to arrest war protestors (it doesn't), or how depleted Uranium is causing radiation poisoning (it's not very radioactive). We focus not only on the half empty part of the glass, but also on the layer of sediment on the bottom of the lake.

7. From the posts I read so far in this thread, many are proud of their negativity. Negativity is what separates an informed realist from an ignorant Pollyanna. Being negative and cynical makes you cool, and one of the gang. It makes you intellectually and morally superior, and also in the know.

[tom_paine]

36. I like your posts and your points, but 2) and 7) are gross oversimplifications

Am I saying they are completely and 100% wrong? No way. Statistically it is certain, the kinds of people you describe are here, likely in smaller numbers than you attribute. This is true of any large, amorphous group of people.

But your 2) is a gross oversimplification of what most people are saying when the Bush-Hitler comparisons are made. It is not to say that Bush is the moral equivalent of Hitler, which is untrue. It is to take note of the deepening similarities, which are disturbing and may foreshadow worse to come.

Maybe Bush is the equivalent of Hans Bruening, who was German Chancellor from 1930-32, and, as described in Sebastian Haffner's "Defying Hitler" introduced many of the concepts that Nazis would later exploit and expand to ridiculous extremes.

To further understand where I/we are coming from, please click on the YouTube link in my sigline. Naomi Wolf went out and did the research, dotted the Is and crossed the Ts. She says it better than I ever could.

And read Haffner. Whether or not you agree with me after reading it is irrelevant, it is a book everyone should read.

Iraq is not as bad as Vietnam, in terms of casualities (which are now over 1 million Iraqis) nor in length (yet). But they also, are deeply related in both the circumastances and the manner in which they are fought.

And 7) I can scarcely begin to know where to start. I can only speak for myself personally but you think negativity and cynicism (I call it realism, particularly given the time and place we live in) is a "cool" benefit, then you must be out of your fucking mind!

Why do you think we congregate here at DU, many of us? Because the Titanic is sinking and all anyone wants to do is listen to the band and eat the free hors'd'ouvers. I guarantee you, for most if not all of us realists (what you would call negative cynics) there has been personal cost for it and no gain but that of breaking one's teeth on rocks, metaphorically speaking.

Sure, there is some pride in seeing what others can't or won't. That is human nature and anyone who has a skill or knowledge that most others don't have feels pride in their accomplishment. It's only human nature.

But to think that this perceived "benefit" and "coolness" :rofl: is a reason unto itself, then I have to say I strongly disagree. STRONGLY. I can only speak for myself, but I suspect others feel as I do.

It is just the opposite of what you say. Not benefit, but detriment. Not coolness, but just the opposite, most think we are crazy conpiracy theorists, even here at DU. Ands nothing is more uncool than being a bummer or trying to make people think deep thoughts, these days.

Your post is generally well thought out and a good read, but where I disagree, I have said so.

Maybe you should think about that, as I have thought about the things you said in your post.

And if you do nothing else, please watch the Naomi Wolf YouTube Lecture in my sigline. Agree or disagree, it, too, is worth watching for it's own sake.

[hfojvt]

42. going by the first two posts on the thread

They said "we (the negative ones) do not have our head up our a$$" and comments like that received positive feedback.

There's normal negativity and then there's tinfoil hattery. Even edging to the latter I am not sure there is a huge personal cost at DU. Naomi Wolf threads hit the greatest page with well over 25 votes.

"Why do you think we congregate here at DU, many of us? Because the Titanic is sinking and all anyone wants to do is listen to the band and eat the free hors'd'ouvers. I guarantee you, for most if not all of us realists (what you would call negative cynics) there has been personal cost for it and no gain but that of breaking one's teeth on rocks, metaphorically speaking."

The personal cost is probably in the real world, whereas the gain I am talking about is in the DU world. Post a negative rant (or even a clever one line insult) about Bush, Huckabee, Pelosi, Reid, Clinton, Freepers, Christians, etc. and you become a DU hero, showered with accolades. Dare to disagree or call for calm and reason and compassion and you can join me and OMC and bryant on the Island of Misfit Trolls. Don't mean to call a waahmbulance for myself, just reporting it the way I see it.

There is, however, also the negative trend. Typically people will respond when they have a disagreement with what you said, so it may seem like most of the feedback is negative.

[tom_paine]

44. Agreed with your comment on benefits DU vs. real world, plus LOL at The Island of Misfit Trolls!

When I typed it, I was also thinking along those lines. But the real world is where we live and work and all the rest of it.

I can't deny the truth about the "head up the a$$" responses except to say that is not true of everyone here or even a majority, I believe (maybe I am being a Pollyanna here myself, but I believe it).

I guess I never worried much about being a DU hero or a DU goat. It certainly seems to me that I have been ripped, sometimes mercilessly, more than I have been lauded by about 2X or 3X, but maybe that just is the overall negative bias you speak of.

In either case, I don't track it because I don't give a fuck what people think of me here or in the real world. I just say it as I believe it. Look at my posts from Nov.2006-Mar. 2007 and you'll see I almost joined the Island of Misfit Trolls, myself, until I saw too much evidence and my calm patience wore out (but that is a topic for another discussion)

Exhibit A: http://journals.democraticunderground.com/tom_paine/67

But you did make your point. There is more merit to your 2) and 7) than I first thought, which still doesn't mean I fully agree with them.

But no matter, you can just call me a Pollyanna and tell me I have my "head up my a$$", and that'll teach me! :evilgrin:

Oh, and one last question. Does the Island of Misfit Trolls have good Health and Dental Insurance? If it did, I might consider joining. Not that I believe in everything you do, but man, I need the coverage!

See you round the boards, Misfit Troll. :hi: :evilgrin:

[leftofthedial]

30. I'm POSITIVE!

I am POSITIVE that everything is totally fucked up beyond all repair.

[hfojvt]

43. everything?

Even the New England Patriots? Even the Center for Budget and Policy Priorities? Even MediaWhoresOnline? Whoops, I forgot that he got disappeared.

And that's not even a real word.

[leftofthedial]

56. see?

it's MORE than everything

[Deja Q]

32. Because it gets people off, that's why.

And, seriously, maybe people DO see too many conspiracies. And that nothing is more self-destructive than that.

[question everything]

33. Hiding behind the anonymity of the Internet allow

people to vent, to post things that they would not normally say face to face (one hopes).

DU, of course, started after Bush got the crown and since then we have seen how all the prosperity and the budget surplus have disappeared.

We can see how our local governments does not have enough funds to fix roads and bridges, to provide for public transportation, to support schools, to provide health care, food and shelter to the poor. We see how even those of us who are employed are behind in catching up with rising costs of everything.

At the same time there is a "glut" of millionaires. Earning a million dollar is "nothing" these days. Several hundreds is more like it. Having a million dollar house is "nothing" these days. And this is across the country.

One does not have to believe in a revolution, or in communism or socialism to get sick of these observations, yet there is nothing we can do, even after taking Congress.

So venting out here is the result.

Don't let it get to you. There are so many posts here that you can pick and choose.

[EstimatedProphet]

34. The term "realists" should never be applied to DU.

There's so much negativity here because there's a bunch of people who believe that only their opinion is valid, and anyone who disagrees with them in any way is automatically a traitor Republican shill. They're basically the same people as those who were posting on Free Republic a few years ago. They've changed direction, but not method.

[tom_paine]

38. Ugh! I don't know where to begin to say how much I disagree with that statement.

Gross oversimplification doesn't even cover it. Flat our wrong and brutally, ruthlessly cynical.

Try and remember, we're all on the same side here (except the Bushie Trolls, and statistically it is certain there are a few here at any given time).

I don't know what else to say. Perhaps your own ego and temper is coloring your analysis. I know mine sometimes does. All of us, really. It's part of being human.

Maybe you see vehement diasgreement as being called a "traitor Republican shill" because you imposing your own internal template on words that don't mean that. By which I mean that you hear yourself being called that, even when you're not being called that.

I'll say it again: Whatever our disagreements, at the end of the day we are all on the same side.

Peace.

[EstimatedProphet]

39. I would really hope that we would be on the same side

We all NEED to be on the same side! We're screwed if we aren't!

Unfortuntely there's been too many times in the past where I have had my argument stated for me, incorrectly, by someone trying to defeat a strawman, and then attacked for stating my real argument. It happens way too often, far more often than it did only 2 years ago. It's not just me either. I see it happenning to a number of other people here all too often.

[tom_paine]

40. It has always been like that and it always will, sadly.

That too, is part and parcel of being human (sorry for the squishy cliche, but it's true).

I think what you are seeing is directly related to the phenomena that has occurred after our 2006 "victory" which has turned to ashes in our mouths, for it was no victory at all, in terms of stopping the Iraq Invasion or more importantly, the dissassembling of our System of Checks and Balances in a Caesar-like fahsion.

I can only speak for myself and how I felt after November 2006. A renewed and restored pride in America (not in our Founding Documents, that was always there, but in the ideas that our elected officials might get back to the business of protecting them and standing up for us) only to be crushingly and I mean CRUSHINGLY let down from my brief hopes.

I mean, we aren't even going after Gonzales, who's perjuries are multiple, shameless, and clear-cut. I mean, the Director of the FBI contradicted his under-oath testimony! And he's going to walk free free FREE! Gonzales went out and hired a Criminal Defense Attorney, I read. He need not have bothered.

So not only are hopes crushed, but the despair of the idea that the System has been irrevocably parasitized and neutralized by the Bushies (with more than a little help from President and Senator Clinton, whatever other positives they may have had - and Clinton was one of our finest Presidents but for this - and even if they didn't know what they were doing to the nation in the long-term) is making people angrier and less tolerant of what they/we perceive as "lame excuses".

This is not to invalidate your opinion, I am merely saying why it is I think our collective pot is boiling more rapidly...here at DU and out in the real world.

I don't know what the answer is. I just know that if I was a man dying of thirst in the desert, the November 2006 elections were the first glass of water I'd had in six years. Then upon swallowing said "water", I found out it was castor oil. Now my stomach is roiling and heaving with nausea and I am STILL dying of thirst.

Then I look up and I hear Nancy Pelosi, who "gave" me the "water", tell me, metaphorically-speaking, she wishes she could have my ass swept off the desert for loitering, I'm just a vagrant with an Impeach Bush t-shirt.

Goddamn, how much crushing of hope can the human spirit take? I know, I know, few of us really knows the meaning of true suffering, I am not one of them and I am grateful for that, but everything is relative.

Anyway, with this last crushing of hopes, the pot has gone from simmering to boiling, or from stewing to simmering (let's hope it never boils over, that would be a catastrophe for us all), again, everything is relative.

Try to remember that when someone gives you a rhetorical smack out of blind anger or because they don't know how to debate without creating crappy straw men to knock down (plenty of those people on all sides of any debate). I don't know what the answer is. To me, it is having some damned hope that someone out there besides a handful of Democratic Congresspeople and Crazy Ron Paul defending us against totalitarian tyranny.

[EstimatedProphet]

53. I don't disagree with what you wrote

But I also believe that, while it may be understandable from frustration, the trends you wrote about are exactly what is creating the negativity here, and are also in my experience generating a bloc of posters who make blanket pronouncements sweeping fabricated generalizations, and attack anyone who disagrees with any point of theirs, no matter how small. Real honest discussion has gone out the window in this environment, and it's been replaced by broad-brush sears and innuendo. It matters very little to me if someone is frustrated by events they don't like when they call me a freeper just because I disagree with them. And, if they have that attitude, why should I keep trying to discuss anything with them, only for them to attack me again? In short, why do I have to be civil when they won't?

[hfojvt]

58. that makes a good point

at least I also think there is too much of the "only my opinion is valid and anyone who disagrees with me is a total a$$hole or moran" but it also illustrates a couple of points. In that, your post was all negative. There is some of what you say, but how much? Enough to ruin the whole barrel? Or is there still a lot of good here? Obviously, I think it is the latter, because I am still here. Or did I say that backwards?

Secondly, you also seem to have said that a bunch of DUers are traitor Republican shills. I think that is common in a heated argument, that even I have said it. In fact, I think I said it to you, something like "that sounds like something a Republican would say". That was not meant as a comment about you, but only about some of the things you said.

Some of that seems to be part of the liberal philosophy, which sorta creates an us and a them. "They" are intolerant, racist, homophobes, bigots, arrogant and ignorant. They are 110% evil. "We", OTOH, are tolerant, thoughtful, educated, and informed. Pure as the driven snow and swan's down. What does it take to be one of them? It only takes one bad statement. Disagree about the Snickers ad? You are probably a homophobe. Disagree about the concept of white privilege? You are probably a racist. Disagree that religion is not stupid and evil? You are probably a talibornigan. How can I be sure you are not one of them? Hmmmm? How can anybody be sure I am not one of them?

[EstimatedProphet]

59. Well...

Actually, what I said is that there are a group of DUers now who call everyone else traitor Republican shills. I'm not calling them that - they are calling everyone else that. Also, I really do believe the bullying kind of approach is getting worse here, where any kind of disagreement is met with complete derision and harrassment. Other than that, I don't remember the discussion you seem to be thinking about.

[ProudDad]

35. In my case it's nearly 40 years

of fighting republicans and "conservative" Dems, their sick "economic system" and their warped view of how a "society" should operate and for whom.

[Perry Logan]

41. It's more than negativity at DU. It's active hostility to anything positive.

[tom_paine]

47. I'm positive I like your signature line very much.

Positivity, like respect, needs to be earned.

I would love to be positive. I was very positive from Nov. 2006- Mar. 2007.

I would dearly love to be so again. I need some reasons, and not just some cut and paste, some tangible reasons to believe that the assualt on our System of Checks and Balances is being pushed backwards, for a change.

And that has nothig to do with minimum wage or any of the rest of it.

Anyway, great sigline! :hi:

[MilesColtrane]

50. In a very positive, and supportive, nurturing way, I have to say...

...that you're over generalizing like a motherfucker.

Have a nice day!

:)

[Enrique]

49. because DU is on the Internets

[OzarkDem]

55. Troll and disruptor activity high

from both "newbs" and high count troll posters.

Its pretty obvious to most regulars here. Bottom line, don't feed the trolls. If a thread appears to be intentionally divisive, ignore it.

[blues90]

57. It's because there is one thing we can count on

And that is never getting the truth about anything , what in all of that is there to be positive about . I don't call it conspiracy , I call it legitimate question and verified doubt . The one truth out there is we are always being lied to , that's the reality . What we see and hear and suspect are things we are told not to believe .

[butterfly77]

61. Because the CONS are on board...

INSTIGATING...

[Solly Mack]

62. I've just been in a bad mood for 43 years

Started the day the doctor reared his hand back to slap my ass....I've been pissy ever since