SUICIDE - The Bhutto Experiment Gone Deadly

[ShaneGR]

Take a close look at the picture below. Consider that a few weeks ago, when she first arrived back in Pakistan, over 100 people died in her very first rally. Mass suicide bombing. A maniac strapped explosives to a baby, which exploded.

Now look at the picture again. I have been reading about Pakistan for over 6 years. Hundreds of articles, historical documentation. It's an EXTREMELY unstable place. Pakistan is not the place where you hire security to keep you alive when your vehicle is being surrounded and you are hanging out of a sun roof. So I ask, what was she thinking?

Simple as that.

This is the picture taken just before her death.

[KittyWampus]

1. I haven't had the guts to post the question- Why the hell was she hanging out the sunroof?w

It's literally insane.

She complains about her security via Mushareff and yet hangs out the sunroof.

[SoCalDem]

8. I think she was relying on luck.. and as it usually does..luck ran out

She needed to appear brave and fearless or people might not have supported her. She may have thought that if she managed to stay alive until the election, her elevated status would protect her once she regained an elected position..

she gambled and now her children have no mother and her husband, no wife.. she set into motion the next round of vendetta..watch for her sons to carry on in a decade or so..

Being a martyr for millions of strangers was somehow preferred to being a mother, wife ordinary citizen..

[Withywindle]

35. WTF?

Being a martyr for millions of strangers was somehow preferred to being a mother, wife ordinary citizen..

Would you say this about a male political figure who was assassinated?

Let's rewrite this about, say, JFK:

Being a martyr for milions of strangers was somehow preferred to being a husband, father, ordinary citizen.

Political leaders are ambitious. BY DEFINITION. They usually put their political agendas and their country ahead of their individual and family lives. BY DEFINITION.

Bhutto should've been content to be a "mother, wife, ordinary citizen"?

Now, this may or may not be related to the issue of whether or not it was smart to stick her head out of a sun roof. Probably not. But there's a real whiff of blaming a woman in particular for being brave and taking risks here that I don't much care for. Anyone whose family member is a leader of some sort knows this is a possibility. Four US Presidents have been assassinated, which is almost 10%. Does that mean everyone who's ever had their eye on that prize should be content to be a "parent, spouse, ordinary citizen" (gender-neutral language chosen quite deliberately).

[Dorian Gray]

41. She was trying to be a brave and strong leader

not allowing fear to cow her into submission. Some say it's foolish. But, sometimes it's foolish to never do anything because of fear. She could have stayed in exile. Should she have? That's debatable, obviously.

[LakeSamish706]

2. Elaborate please! You have given us some of the picture, now go on! n/t

[ShaneGR]

3. Sec, I'm fixing, nt

[KittyWampus]

4. what was she doing hanging out of the sunroof, especially since she complained of poor security?

[MonkeyFunk]

6. Because she's a politician

it's what they do.

[KittyWampus]

7. in Pakistan? With security you've complained is deficient? After earlier suicide bomb?

[ShaneGR]

11. Actually, you left out weeks of martial law.... just o pile onto the question a bit....

Mass suicide bombing kills over a 100 of your supporters, the country is put on martial law, after weeks of martial law, you return to campaign. You hang our of sunroof while traveling.

That's the problem.

[LakeSamish706]

9. This is kind of interesting, and I guess I say this because of her conversation...

very recently with Wolf Blitzer of CNN... He asked her about the fact that her life was in grave danger being back in Pakistan... She kind of blue it off as if she wasn't worried about that.... hmmmmm

[LakeSamish706]

5. Why would she want to commit suicide? Sorry, still not understanding! n/t

[Midlodemocrat]

10. This is ridiculous. She didn't commit suicide.

Besides being a politician, she was a parent. This is utter horsehit.

[KittyWampus]

12. why was she hanging out the sunroof? After complaining about security? After fingering

Mushareff?

[Midlodemocrat]

14. For the same reason JFK was in an open limo

She's a politician. She was reaching out to the people she loved. She didn't commit suicide.

[KittyWampus]

20. when was the last time a president drove around in an open limo? She COMPLAINED about secu

security she was provided and then compromised it herself.

[Midlodemocrat]

26. Let's put it in context.

She was considered a savior by many and revered as such. She was also vilified by the current Pakistani government. Could she have made the fatal mistake to try and connect with the people she loved just once more?

I refuse to believe that she awoke with the intention to kill herself.

[ShaneGR]

23. JFK was in a limo in 1963, in Dallas TX

He wasn't in Pakistan, and over a hundred hadn't died in a suicide bombing weeks before. Just pointing out the difference.

[Midlodemocrat]

27. But the context is similar.

Two very popular 'people's' politicians.

Bhutto may have died because of her attempt to connect with Pakistanis in much the same way as JFK did.

[ShaneGR]

29. I understand your position, but I disagree, extremely

It's not even close to the same. Bhutto was LUCKY to survive a suicide bombing just weeks before that killed over 100 of her own supporters. Suicide bombings are nothing new in Pakistan. Bhutto's own father was executed in Pakistan (He was the President up until the early 1970s). She should of have known better.

[Midlodemocrat]

31. How could she have known that she was going to be assassinated?

She was a charismatic woman whom the public adored. How could she have known that?

Not ragging on you, but should all charismatic people be concerned about their well being? Like Selena? Or John Lennon?

[11cents]

38. Before she was in the car she was walking through a crowd.

Why was she doing that? HUH? HUH? SHE WANTED TO COMMIT SUICIDE.

No, hon. She was a politician and she was campaigning. She knew this wasn't a risk-free activity.

[Dorian Gray]

42. Because she's making a public statement.

This thread is disturbing. Talk about blaming the victim of a crime.

[Rex]

13. I think he means she was acting suicidal.

I too doubt she wanted to die.

[ShaneGR]

16. Correct, I do not think she was purposely wanting to die, I think she made it easy to die

Big difference. It would be like Kennedy, after the first shot went into his back, stood up and made a bigger target. That's what I'm saying.

[Dorian Gray]

43. A guy was hit by a bus down in Chinatown today.

He was crossing the street. Boy, did he ever make it easy for himself to die by being outside in the city!

If we live in fear of what may happen, we will never take any action.

[Rex]

45. It has nothing to do with fear. It is taking risk.

The fella that ran out in the street, he took a risk. Maybe not as great as the people who just happen to pick a day to go to the zoo. Maybe more, but they all took risks to be where they were at that moment.

I respected her right to want to lead, it is sick that we to this day have to assassinate each other. It is wrong, but that makes it no less real.

She was brave to step foot in Pakistan IMO.

[Dorian Gray]

46. I agree with your post.

Risk-taking, however, should not be considered suicidal behavior, though. (In my opinion, of course.) She was brave. She was fighting a fight that she believed was right, and a fight that could have changed the course of history for Pakistan. But, it wasn't meant to be. But, I don't think she should have cowered from campaigning, public interaction, or whatever else that she thought necessary. The real tragedy is that there are people out there willing to assassinate for political/religious reasons. Awful.

[Rex]

47. Her death is very tragic.

A brave woman.

[Midlodemocrat]

17. She may have been acting a tad irrationally given the situation,

but I don't think I would describe it as suicidal. Surely someone close to her would have urged her to step back if she were.

[Rex]

24. Maybe they had their back turned or the team was looking at something

or her security force was lax for a second. I dunno. I wouldn't have stuck my neck out, but that is me. Like I said, not suicide but maybe a tad bit suicidal, which most people have done at one time or another. Be it a car or drug or politics.

Something happen and now she is dead.

RIP.

[LakeSamish706]

19. I know that OP might suggest this, but I am not... But I certainly must wonder...

why would she be hanging out of the sunroof of an SUV when she knows full well that her life is in grave danger just being in the country? It's not like she had not had this conversation, as one of my previous post's would suggest with Wolff Blitzer. She knew full well that she was in extreme danger!

[Midlodemocrat]

22. I agree that she knew her life was in danger.

But power is a very strong drug. And I think she was 'drugged' by the reception of the people of Pakistan and the thought that she could make a difference.


YMMV.

[fortyfeetunder]

15. It wasn't suicide

She knew exactly what she was in for and recognized her passion was bringing democracy to Pakistan. She probably knew the grave risks associated with campaigning.

Regarding the sunroof deal -- that car was not heavily armored; hence may not have made a difference in how much she was protected....

[ShaneGR]

18. The car wasn't armored?

How do you know that? I'd bet it was armored, and she didnt suffer injuries from the explosion after he shot her.

[LakeSamish706]

33. Yep, I'm with you on that! I don't know how this poster knows the car wasn' t armored. n/t

[fortyfeetunder]

40. Let me clarify "lightly armored" vehicle

Which in this case was as bad as no armoring.

http://washingtontimes.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20071228/FOREIGN/825202955/1001

There was a discussion about this particular vehicle earlier this morning.
Bhutto had asked Musharraf for a vehicle with armoring, e/e jamming and tinted windows, but the videos showing her going into the car showed that the windows weren't tinted, and showed where the armoring was on this vehicle.

On top of that, pictures showed as far as security, the port side of the vehicle (not sure if driver was located on port or starboard side) was wide open as far as human protection....making it possible for a sniper to get her at close range.

[Cessna Invesco Palin]

21. That's idiotic.

This is the most retarded thread I've seen on DU in ages.

[ShaneGR]

25. Really? Retarded? I'll tell you what's retarded, hanging out of a sunroof in Pakistan with hundreds

crowding into your car. That's retarded.

[Cessna Invesco Palin]

36. At least she stood up for what she was doing...

...instead of being a monday morning quarterbacking keyboard warrior.

[tom_paine]

39. I most definitely agree with you here, yibbiehobba.

I am not much liking this whole "blaming the victim" thing.

She died as she lived, bravely and for what she believed in.

Was it perhaps foolhardy to do what she did? Perhaps, but we are not qualified to judge her and especially not to condemn her for it. Yes, on this we agree.

[Rex]

28. Come now.

In ages?

[LakeSamish706]

30. I certainly would like to understand more about your post! Please fill us...

in on why you posted what you did. And thanks in advance.

[Cessna Invesco Palin]

34. Um... the OP is insinuating that Bhutto committed suicide.

I think that level of stupidity speaks for itself.

[LakeSamish706]

37. Well I don't think that he meant that she actually committed suicide as such...

She didn't knowingly take her own life, but she knew that she could very well die in a situation such as she was in... Maybe she didn't give it much thought, but she absolutely knew what had transpired in very recent days and weeks, therefore she knew the risks...

[Midlodemocrat]

32. In ages? Shit, dude. Head over to the lounge.

[Hoof Hearted]

44. So you've been reading for a whole six years now,

and this is the apex of your expression?

[JVS]

48. What do you think of her letter to blame the current Pakistani leader if something were to happen?

Seems to me that the letter would fit in well with your suspicion.

[malaise]

49. Maybe she trusted the US and the Brits

I mean she met with them before she returned and they guaranteed that she would share power with Mushie. Perhaps all sides were playing games.