Who here thinks the 'surge' is working and things are getting better in Iraq?

[babylonsister]

I keep hearing and seeing that phrase, but I remain skeptical for a lot of reasons. If it's working, why aren't we pulling troops out?

I feel kind of bad for not believing this, as it would be a good thing for all involved, but we've been hoodwinked so many times, I just think this is yet another instance.

Will the killings ratchet up after the holidays? Then what will 'they' say?

[ixion]

1. hmmmm... let's see... 22 killed today in yet another bombing...

people living -- er, starving and dying, rather -- in rubble with no running water, sanitation or electricity.

Yeah, look at that surge a-surging. :sarcasm:

[shadowknows69]

2. You must be in my head this morning Sister

I was just thinking about this. I have several theories but need some more caffeine to write coherently.

[shadowknows69]

5. Ok, I'll throw one out there

What if the Iraqi forces and government have indeed "stepped up" with more successful security from their own forces and maybe even some reconcilliation of battling factions and they simply aren't being given the credit; thus we have to stay to insure the "success" doesn't turn to failure.

[babylonsister]

8. But 'we're' being told it's working, so regardless of why, shouldn't

we be declaring victory and exiting stage left? What are they waiting for?

[shadowknows69]

11. They said such bull as we have to remain to provide security

for the government, which apparently would be violently taken out by the people that "elected" them? So, yeah, things are going SO well we have to be there anoter 20 years. Gives one a migraine no?

[Echo In Light]

3. Not I. Yet sadly some may reluctantly give the propaganda some credence due to deep seated obedience

To establishment thinking/jingoism/irrational attitudes of submission to authority/refuse to accept that mainline media serves as the megaphone for vested, war profiteering interests, etc

[MiniMe]

4. The entire purpose of the "surge" was to quiet things down for a political reconciliation

Complete non-success. There has been no movement politically in Iraq at all.

[Vinca]

6. We're being told it's working, but how do we know for sure?

The press, after all, is mostly spoon fed "news" from the White House and even then they have Brittney's pregnant sister to cover. The purpose of the surge was for the Iraqi government to get it together (translation from Bush speak: arrange for big oil to get the goods in an amicable way). Apparently, that hasn't happened. Now Turkey is bombing over the border in northern Iraq. People are still dying. The surge working, to me, would be the Iraqi military has stepped up to the plate after all these years of training and can finally take over control of the country so Americans can come home.

[Double T]

7. It is the year of the election and the corporate MSM MUST........

make the rethugs look good to their voters. The economy is "doin' good" and the "surge is working", YOU must be a believer!

[graywarrior]

9. The retail profits made during the Xmas season will determine surge success.

[KharmaTrain]

10. A Tet Moment Is Brewing

Seems like those of us with a memory of late 1967 heard similar things. The war wasn't popular but we were "winning"...fighting had died down during the final months of the year and it had dropped from the front pages. That quiet was sure broken in a hurry that next January.

Keep one's eye on the ball...a war isn't won militarily until its won politically. The puppet regimes of Thieu and Malaki have little political control...or does any central authority other than the American military. Whatever "peace" is either done with a large load of cash or the point of a gun or both...but its not being done by a central government that can stand on its own.

After 5 years of carnage, backed with the prior 2 decades of warfare and embargo, the Iraqi people have endured a great deal and, if anything, are taking a breather from the bloodletting to consolidate positions for the next round. It's been helpful to the US that the Sadr brigade set up a 6 month truce...but that's soon to come to an end. Also, Petreus is flushing the Sunnis with weapons...sooner, rather than later, those guns will be trained on the Shiites and if the US military is in the way, so be it.

[iamjoy]

12. Post Hoc Ergo Propter Hoc

Sure violence is down following our "surge" but that doesn't mean the reduction in violence was a result of the increased troop levels. It seems like the violence in Iraq has been up and down since we invaded. This could be just another trough in the cycle. When Conswervatives brag the surge is working because violence is down, that is like thinking a rooster crowing caused the sun to rise.

As for the whole idea of the surge being to allow for political progress - well, isn't it funny how this administration keeps changing the goals after the fact? You know, like the whole reason we invaded Iraq in the first place?

[qazplm]

13. working? Sure to an extent

but it always was going to "work", but it also always was going to be temporary because we can't keep it up much longer.

We've also benefited from Al Sadr taking a pause.

[LynnTheDem]

14. 2007; highest US death toll in Iraq.

No it didn't work. No it isn't working. No it won't work.

But let the rightwingnuttery chant their "last throes" crap yet again. It gives them such pleasure.

[Breeze54]

15. NO ONE!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Merry Festivus and Happy Jingoballs! :P

[brazos121200]

16. Appearances can be deceiving. Expect a "Tet" style offensive in

the spring by the Iraqis and it will not be pretty. The fact is that the original Tet offensive in Vietnam was not a success militarily, but was a success politically, in that it finally turned a large majority of the American people against the war as they finally realized victory was impossible. Back then, the Viet Cong had to rely on a small third rate country in the north, North Vietnam, to supply them with men and materiel. Today, the insurgents can call on the resources of a very large and powerful country, Iran, to supply them with aid. In addition, the entire region is replete with anti-American sentiment which insurgents can use to recruit supporters in the war against American occupation of their country.

[Breeze54]

18. Yada, yada, yada! ~ The USA supplies more weapons than anyone!

:evilfrown:

[LynnTheDem]

17. Iraqis; surge not working

Apart from a few scattered gains, a new national survey by ABC News, the BBC and the Japanese broadcaster NHK finds deepening dissatisfaction with conditions in Iraq, lower ratings for the national government and growing rejection of the U.S. role there.
http://abcnews.go.com/US/story?id=3571504