Mormons aren't Christians ... and other thoughts on religion and politics sure to get your blood ...

[helderheid]

Interesting read.

Mormons aren't Christians ... and other thoughts on religion and politics sure to get your blood boiling

By Rod Dreher
The Dallas Morning News
Article Last Updated: 12/20/2007 07:41:43 PM MST

Herewith, my views on religion and the politics of the present moment, with something to offend just about everyone:

1. Mormons aren't Christians. I don't mean that as a criticism, only as a descriptive phrase. When Mormons claim Jesus Christ as their savior, there's no reason to doubt their sincerity and good will, or even to deny that they are in some way followers of Christ. Yet Mormonism rejects foundational doctrines of traditional Christian orthodoxy, such that it is impossible to reconcile with normative Christianity.

2. Anyway, the Latter-day Saints church teaches that all other Christian churches are apostate. A heretic is someone who rejects one or more doctrines of religion, but an apostate is someone who has rejected the religion entirely. How is it, exactly, that you can get mad when people you regard as apostates consider you to be ... apostate? How does that work?

3. Theologically, this is a big deal. But politically, so what? Mormons vote like Southern Baptists and come down on the same side of most issues of public morality like conservative Christians do. If you're a socially conservative lawmaker, wouldn't you rather have a Mormon in your legislative foxhole than a Kennedy-style cafeteria Catholic or progressive mainline Protestant? I'm no Romney fan, but is there really no meaningful political difference between Good-Mormon Mitt and Bad-Catholic Rudy, to say nothing of Liberal-Protestant Hillary?

4. There are plenty of good reasons for conservative Christians not to vote for Romney, but his religious beliefs are not among them. Do Christians want to be in the position of rejecting a candidate whose political views and moral values they agree with, solely because they don't like his religion? On what grounds would they condemn secularists for rejecting Christian candidates?

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http://www.sltrib.com/Opinion/ci_7771897

[JuniperLea]

1. My sig line says it all... eom

[helderheid]

2. love it!

[theredpen]

4. Why do you think I believe in a bearded cloud diety?

You could have asked.

[Tierra_y_Libertad]

3. "Man is the only animal to have discovered the One, True, GOD....several of them." Mark Twain

[Momgonepostal]

5. Interesting article, Helderheid!

Thank you for posting!

(you know, I always want to call you Heiderheld. Somehow I reverse things in my mind) :silly:

[helderheid]

7. You may call me that (but only you!)! :P

[Momgonepostal]

9. I probably HAVE called you that...

In fact, I caught myself and backspaced this time. Oops. :-)

[helderheid]

15. LOL! :P

[NNN0LHI]

6. The Christians I know can't quite wrap their mind around the Jesus being Satan's brother thingy

They wonder if that means Mary not only gave birth to Jesus but also The Beast? They are curious if Mittens thinks they were twin brothers or what?

I can't imagine any Catholic people I know pulling the lever for someone who believes this biblical scenario. I just can't.

Don

[JuniperLea]

8. I've had that experience too...

And when you say we are all God's children, and he loves us all equally, and is willing to forgive us all as many times as there are stars in the heavens... and remind them that Saddam Hussein, Osama Bin Laden, Hillary Clinton, Al Gore, and yes, George Bush, are all God's children and all loved by God... whoa! And when you remind them that Jesus said whatsoever you do for these the least of my brethren, you do for me... Holy cow! Heads spin and steam comes out of ears!

I love Christians who actually walk the talk, and they are few and far between these days. But Jesus said it would be so:) He also said that no man knows the day or hour when he would return, so all these idiots who are waiting and wanting for the Apocalypse are surely pissing him off royal!

[DFW]

10. For that matter, look who, of all people, got real about something the American right holds dear

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/main.jhtml;jsessionid=JHPSTTVO4EG5FQFIQMGCFGGAVCBQUIV0?xml=/news/2007/12/20/nwise120.xml


you have to paste the whole thing as one link to get to the pertinent article

No one could have made this one up!

[Leopolds Ghost]

11. Bottom line: that Romney is a man whose moral values Christans agree with and secularists oppose.

Ugh. I will never, ever read Dallas Morning News
for publishing this hit piece attacking mainstream
Protestant/Catholic (i.e. non-Texan) Christianity.

It is obvious that to many "conservative" (right wing)
Christians, not to mention your average European Catholic
in the Middle Ages, any reasonable understanding of
Christianity violates the social order and is therefore
"secular interpolation" by "cafeteria Catholics".

"If you're a socially conservative lawmaker, wouldn't you rather have a Mormon in your legislative foxhole than a Kennedy-style cafeteria Catholic or progressive mainline Protestant? I'm no Romney fan, but is there really no meaningful political difference between Good-Mormon Mitt and Bad-Catholic Rudy, to say nothing of Liberal-Protestant Hillary?

Do Christians want to be in the position of rejecting a candidate whose political views and moral values they agree with, solely because they don't like his religion? On what grounds would they condemn secularists for rejecting Christian candidates?"

On Edit: No, Mormonism isn't Christian, it's just another deliberately fraudulent sect perpetrated by results-oriented prayer demagogues.

Expect more of them to take root and displace traditional Christianity which is unapealingly at odds with the fundamentalist "the Bible is what I say it is" of the nouveau right wing.

[Johonny]

12. foundational doctrines of traditional Christian orthodoxy,

Most Christians reject foundational doctrines of traditional Christian Orthodoxy. So I'm not sure how Mormons are different.

Do Christians want to be in the position of rejecting a candidate whose political views and moral values they agree with, solely because they don't like his religion?

I think Mitt's made this clear: If you consider a Mormon a Christian then vote for him because he's a conservative Christian and conservative Christians made this country and are thus better than people that don't want religion in politics, however if you don't think a Mormon is a Christian then vote for him because religion has no place in a political debate and thus a persons religion doesn't matter. I think this position is clear. VOTE FOR HIM.

[Retrograde]

16. One definition of Christianity

at least mine, is that a Christian is someone who holds all the tenets of the Nicene Creed. It's how mainstream Christians have defined themselves since 325 AD. IMHO, the Mormon belief "As man is now, God once was; as God now is, man may become." contradicts the first statement, "I believe in one god".

But I'm not voting for Romney because he's a Republican.

[Johonny]

17. Which many modern Christian historians

kind of find as funny. Cleary Jesus didn't believe in the Nicene Creed. Neither did his closest followers. Why would they it became a part of the church 300 years after they were all dead.

[Ezlivin]

13. Hell, most Christians aren't Christians

Most of them don't know what is written in the Bible and if you ask too many questions they can only say that they'll "have to ask their pastor for the answer(s).

I had a nice trio of evangelicals show up on my front porch. Bad move (I'm an atheist and seminary graduate). I asked them a series of questions and they got this deer in the headlight look. I even asked them to name one thing that Jesus had said and they were speechless!

Most Mormons are like most Christians: Absolutely dependent on some church leader to tell them what they do and don't believe.

[hfojvt]

14. that seemed like a tough question, to get an exact quote of Jesus

then I thought of "I thirst" and "my God, my God, why have you forsaken me?"

Very important teachings, I am sure.