OFFICIAL FISA BILL DISCUSSION THREAD #6

[Le Taz Hot]

Continued from here:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=389x2484752

[ThomWV]

1. Lets go for this historical day

[Le Taz Hot]

2. Kick

[Le Taz Hot]

3. Kick

[LSK]

4. HATCH: WHAT ABOUT THE POOR COMPANIES????

Because we all know America is all about Corporations.

:eyes:

:puke:

[Ammonium]

5. okay enough old man

Move along Hatch, no one wants to listen to you blabber.

[Le Taz Hot]

6. Right, we've been "assured from the highest level

of government." Yeah. Now I can sleep. :eyes:

[ThomWV]

7. Hatch says "the Government wanted more" as if his ass was not part of the Government

Or does he consider Bush alone to be the Government?

[marmar]

8. Orrin Hatch has put one too many "down the hatch" today....

:beer: :beer: :beer:

[rodeodance]

32. he was sickening!

[libnnc]

9. Hey Oral! LEAKING top secret stuff includes

BETRAYING THESE FOLKS

[Le Taz Hot]

10. Kick to point people to #6

until the mods have a chance to lock #5. Thanks.

[marmar]

11. Trial balloons? What is this balloonhead talking about?

:freak:

[Ammonium]

12. He's still talking

The distinction here is clear. Hatch et al are in favor of letting the Corporations do whatever they want and let the chips fall where they may. If they break the law, stomp on your rights, oh well. It would hurt the economy to hold them accountable. What bullshit.

[Cerridwen]

13. Kick to the top and a recommend so I can see when hatch has shut his. n/t

[Gold Metal Flake]

14. Thanks to all for these threads!

:toast: :patriot: :toast:

[mirrera]

15. Ye gawd! BOrin Hatch...n/t

[Le Taz Hot]

16. Beating the "bi-partisan" word to death.

Thanks to the Democratically-led Intelligence Committee for giving them cover -- including my own Sen. Feinstein.

[thepurpose]

17. This why Bush and his cronies will never ever pay for their crimes.

[mirrera]

18. "Pin the tail on the Donkey"... Shut up Orin.

[HCE SuiGeneris]

19. Just STFU already. Jeebus.

[K Gardner]

20. Been trying to find you guys, thanks for the thread. n/t

[LSK]

21. HATCH: TERROR TERROR TERROR

[Le Taz Hot]

22. Mikulski up.

[mirrera]

23. "I refuse to put my country at risk" Unless you don't absolve the Telecoms...n/t

[Ammonium]

24. Milkulski

I'm not familiar with her? Freshman senator?

[Le Taz Hot]

26. Oh, goddess no.

She's been around since Moses! ;-)

[MiniMe]

25. Love Mikulski, she is my Senator

[Le Taz Hot]

27. She's on the Intelligence Committee.

How did she vote in Committee on this?

[hootinholler]

30. For it.

She is supporting it.

[marmar]

43. She's on the wrong side on this one.....

n/t

[Le Taz Hot]

28. Harping on the "we must change with technology"

crap. Sounds like the Republicans. OK, I think I know how she voted now. :puke:

[K Gardner]

33. Gads, is she one of us? Fear, terror, blahterrorfear, blah, 9/11...

???

[rodeodance]

37. nope--she says she SUPPORTS the immunity!1

[rodeodance]

29. Topic subject (Today, on FISA) Dodd: They knew the law and they violated it

Forum Name Political Videos
Topic subject (Today, on FISA) Dodd: They knew the law and they violated it
Topic URL http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=385x76908#76908
76908, (Today, on FISA) Dodd: They knew the law and they violated it
Posted by CornField on Mon Dec-17-07 03:06 PM

Chris Dodd speaks out against providing retroactive immunity for telecom companies that broke the law to help the Bush administration spy on Americans.

Unfortunately, Sens. Joe Biden, Hillary Rodham Clinton and Barack Obama -- all who had previously indicated they would support a filibuster -- are absent from Senate chambers today.

[rodeodance]

31. Biden, Hillary Rodham Clinton and Barack Obama -- all who had previously indicated they would suppor

[rodeodance]

34. dang it. Sen Barb Milkuski just said she supports the Fisa immunity bill.

[rodeodance]

35. she is making excuses for the WH

[hootinholler]

36. You lying bitch!

The administration went to the telcos in Feb '01, Barbara.

-Hoot

[K Gardner]

38. She's quoting Gonzales and Ashcroft and Bush? WTF..

no wonder we're up chyte creek as a country, damn

[rodeodance]

39. she said intells had letter of assurance from Doj and WH

[K Gardner]

41. I'm sure they did.. all the more reason to prosecute the WH Officials too.

[robinlynne]

48. assurance of what. (rhetorical)

[libnnc]

40. What have they got on you, Senator Mikulski?

Or are you just daft?

[mirrera]

44. Fear...anthrax...fear...a rotary phone? n/t

[K Gardner]

42. I can't watch this anymore.. it's making me ill. n/t

[Blaze Diem]

45. What cartoon character does Sessions sound like??

I am hearing the sound of his voice and it is so familiar to a cartoon ch. I can't place it though.
Who the heck is it?

[libnnc]

52. Huckleberry Hound comes to mind.

[mirrera]

62. Huckleberry Hound Behind The Laughter, Link:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nyZs3EJgx8Q

edit to add:
Huckleberry's relaxed Southern accent was provided by the late voice actor Daws Butler. A master of more than 100 vocal characterizations, Butler had previously worked with Hanna and Barbera at the MGM studios when the team was producing the extremely popular "Tom and Jerry" theatrical cartoons.


I had thought Yogi Bear, maybe the same actor.

[Blaze Diem]

75. Ha.

thats it !! H hound's voice..
thought is was a bit of Eyeore at first.
Deputy dog?
this is driving me crazy..or maybe its just the steady droan of Jeffy's speech.

[mirrera]

54. He sounds like someone... trying to figure it out makes it more tolerable, thnx!

[Blaze Diem]

76. Sessions voice could be used as a torture tool.

An hour of this and I'd be telling it all.
or sound asleep.

[jtrockville]

46. Mikulski embarrasses me. (nt)

[Le Taz Hot]

47. Sessions up.

**Yawn**

[hootinholler]

49. Do these people really not know that the administration put this in place in Feb. '01?

Waaay before 9/11. This is so disgusting!

-Hoot

[mirrera]

50. I think the guy next to him is dead...n/t

[Blaze Diem]

58. ha ha..I was just thinking the same thing !!

My mind is drifting from that captivating speech Jeffy is giving.

I bet that dead looking guy drools in his sleep.

[marmar]

51. Jeff Sessions is a little slow, methinks....

:dunce:

[HCE SuiGeneris]

53. I wish Sessions would keel over and

fall down... down to the depths of hell and his rightful home.

[bpeale]

55. if this gets passed, i'm cancelling my phone service in protest

and i will never connect it again unless QWEST can assure me that they did not participate in this spying on fellow americans. i can live without that damned instrument in my house.

[ThomWV]

56. Sessions repeats the argument that they broke no laws so they require immunity - fuggin idiot

[LSK]

57. its all about Corporate rights for them

:grr:

[ThomWV]

73. It is "Move On" fault that the telecoms broke the law so they require immunity

[mile18blister]

59. Uniformed police officers ask citizen to tackle bad guy they are chasing?!

Sessions are you nuts? Every police dept I can think of would yell "get out of the way". And this relates to pre-9/11 wiretapping, how?

[Blaze Diem]

63. Police would arrest you for interferring w/Official Police Business.. And

then they would Taser you and beat you up until you could no longer interfere. ever.

[rodeodance]

60. Topic subject Telecom Industry Wins a Round on Eavesdropping

Forum Name General Discussion
Topic subject Telecom Industry Wins a Round on Eavesdropping
Topic URL http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=389x2485722#2485722
2485722, Telecom Industry Wins a Round on Eavesdropping
Posted by ProSense on Mon Dec-17-07 03:22 PM

Telecom Industry Wins a Round on Eavesdropping
By DAVID STOUT
Published: December 17, 2007

WASHINGTON — Telecommunications companies won a skirmish in the Senate on Monday as a bill to protect them from lawsuits for cooperating with the Bush administration’s eavesdropping programs easily overcame a procedural hurdle.

<...>

For instance, Senator Edward M. Kennedy, Democrat of Massachusetts, voted to advance the bill because, he said, the issue is “too important to hold up any longer.” Mr. Kennedy said he strongly favored the version backed by Senator Leahy, who himself voted on Monday to advance the competing bill, rather than the version that just advanced, saying that version would grant “vast new authorities to spy on Americans.”Senator Arlen Specter of Pennsylvania, the ranking Republican on the Judiciary Committee, said he would offer an amendment that would substitute the federal government as defendant in lawsuits, in place of the companies.

“The telephone companies have, I believe, acted as good citizens,” Mr. Specter said.

President Bush has threatened to veto any measure that does not grant immunity to the companies. The House version of the legislation, enacted a month ago, was approved by 227 to 189, or dozens of “yes” votes short of the two-thirds needed to overcome a presidential veto.

Senator Harry Reid of Nevada, the Democratic majority leader, said he agreed to have both Senate measures considered at the same time because “this process will give senators the opportunity to fully debate the various issues.”

In addition to Mr. Dodd and Mr. Feingold, the senators who voted against advancing the immunization measure were Barbara Boxer of California, Sherrod Brown of Ohio, Maria Cantwell of Washington, Benjamin L. Cardin of Maryland, Tom Harkin of Iowa, John Kerry of Massachusetts, Robert Menendez of New Jersey, and Ron Wyden of Oregon, all Democrats

[rodeodance]

61. Topic subject UPDATE 2-Bush's phone immunity demand wins initial Senate vote 76 to 10

Forum Name General Discussion: Politics
Topic subject UPDATE 2-Bush's phone immunity demand wins initial Senate vote 76 to 10
Topic URL http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=132x3852862#3852862
3852862, UPDATE 2-Bush's phone immunity demand wins initial Senate vote 76 to 10
Posted by EV_Ares on Mon Dec-17-07 03:25 PM

WASHINGTON, Dec 17 (Reuters) - U.S. President George W. Bush's demand for immunity for telephone companies that participated in his warrantless domestic spying program won an initial victory on Monday in the U.S. Senate.

On a vote of 76-10, far more than the 60 needed, the Democratic-led Senate cleared a procedural hurdle and began considering a bill to increase congressional and judicial oversight of electronic surveillance of suspected terrorists.

It includes a provision to grant retroactive immunity to any telecommunications company that took part in Bush's spying program -- surveillance without court warrants of e-mails and telephone calls of people in the United States -- begun shortly after the Sept. 11 attacks.

Nearly 40 lawsuits have been filed accusing AT&T (T.N: Quote, Profile, Research), Verizon (VZ.N: Quote, Profile, Research) and Sprint Nextel Corp. (S.N: Quote, Profile, Research) of violating U.S. privacy rights.

Backers of immunity, who include some Democrats as well many of Bush's fellow Republicans, contend companies should be thanked, not punished, for helping defend the United States.

But civil liberties advocates and a number of Democratic lawmakers argue the courts should determine if any company violated privacy rights of law-abiding Americans.

Democrats vow to offer amendments in coming days to remove the immunity provision while backing a number of proposed new civil-liberty safeguards that enjoy broad support. Continued...

Link: http://www.reuters.com/article/companyNewsAndPR/idUSN1741702920071217

[Le Taz Hot]

64. I've had more fun

watching my Rumba work when I first got it. Goddess this man is boring!

[marmar]

65. "puts the Homeland at risk"

Sig Heil!

[rodeodance]

66. Topic subject Dodd threatens filibuster on warrantless-wiretap bill

Forum Name Latest Breaking News
Topic subject Dodd threatens filibuster on warrantless-wiretap bill
Topic URL http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=102x3104679#3104679
3104679, Dodd threatens filibuster on warrantless-wiretap bill
Posted by Dawggie on Mon Dec-17-07 01:06 PM

Source: Baltimore Sun

He may not be making a huge dent in Iowa or New Hampshire as a Democratic presidential candidate but, by God, Sen. Chris Dodd has decided he's going to make a big splash somewhere.

That somewhere happens to be the Senate floor on which Dodd is threatening to mount an old-fashioned filibuster over one of the most controversial issues of the day, the Foreign Intelligence Surveillance Act.

Specifically, the senator wants to strip from legislation that would renew FISA that would retroactively provide telecommunications companies with immunity for allowing the Bush Administration access to their networks to conduct warrantless surveillance.

<snip>

"This is not something that happens very often. It is actually fairly rare. But the senator felt that this is what is needed in order to do whatever he could in the Senate rules to stop the bill from moving forward.

Read more: http://weblogs.baltimoresun.com/news/politics/blog/2007/12/dodd_threatens_filibuster_on_w.html

[LSK]

67. the leftest blame America crowd

:eyes:

[rodeodance]

70. and he tossed in Move-On for good measure!!!!!

[rodeodance]

68. opposition is from "LEFTIST" GROUPS says Sessions!!

[robinlynne]

89. Tell that to the founding fathers. They were considered leftists too.

[HCE SuiGeneris]

69. Yuck -- I have to take a shower after watching Sessions.

Hopefully this sick a-hole will be gone when I return.

[marmar]

71. "Leftist Blame-America First Crowd"

You'd think this POS could at least come up with something more original.... There's nothing worse than an unoriginal fascist pig.

[TwilightGardener]

72. Sessions blames "leftist" Blame-America crowd who are nitpicking

and looking for things to complain about. Brings up MoveOn and Betrayus. Totally relevant to the debate at hand, clearly.

[mile18blister]

74. Sessions is blaming MoveOn.org and ACLU.

And all the other leftists and "blame America first" crowd. I can't listen to this asshole any longer.

[marmar]

77. "Their private conversation about Christmas from Paris or Afghanistan."

:wtf:

My head hurts.

[Le Taz Hot]

78. Cardin up.

I don't know anything about him. Anyone?

[mile18blister]

81. He voted no on immunity. n/t

[K Gardner]

79. I can't tell what this guy is saying..

[Le Taz Hot]

80. I'm so brain dead at this poing

I'm not even sure it's English. :wtf:

[K Gardner]

82. Finally.. thank god. (He's with us, right? LOL )

[shadowknows69]

83. Go Cardin

took a break but I'm back with y'all

[Pastiche423]

84. He agrees w/DiFi?

[Mojorabbit]

86. So he is for immunity?

He is hard to follow.

[robinlynne]

87. He says let the fisa court decide about immunity. NO NO NO Let the regular courts

decide. That is DIFIs ammendment. Let the FISA courts decide. These are regular American lawsuits. 40 of them. They are already in the courts.

[robinlynne]

88. NOw he says Fisa courts are secret.

[pleah]

85. I want to thank all of you for these posts and this discussion page.

I can't watch it on tv right now, so this is great. Thanks again.

[mile18blister]

90. Feingold up. Go Russ!

[Pastiche423]

91. Feingold expalining difference in the two bills

J bill = protects law abiding citizens. Not perfect, but good start

[ThomWV]

92. Email and Phone your Senators - here's a link

http://www.senate.gov/general/contact_information/senators_cfm.cfm

[Pastiche423]

93. Bulk collection is a frightening phrase

[Pastiche423]

94. J bill means president must follow the law

Immunity does not belong in this bill

[mile18blister]

95. Retroactive blanket immunity sets bad precedent.

[seemslikeadream]

96. I just got in could someone give me a short high light list?

If that's possible :hi:

[mirrera]

99. By the time I post this someone with better skills will beat me...

Reid brought the Intelligence bill forward instead of the Judiciary bill. They voted on cloture which passed 76-10.
Reid tried to say we would need 60 votes for amendments as it had been made clear to him that it would be necessary.
Dodd challenged that and from that point on we have been in pre-cloture debate, but Di Fi entered some amendments. Dodd was awesome, Kennedy Rocked, the usual GOP shills said the usual things and here we are.

Dems saying the Judiciary Bill gives the administration what it wants minus immunity, but protects Americans. GOP say pass everything we want or we will all die.
:boring:

[seemslikeadream]

100. Thanks so much and then this is a filibuster?

[mirrera]

113. I don't think so. On another thread they said Filibuster after cloture...

I am really confused about that. I think they are debating amending the intelligence bill with the Judiciary bill. Honestly I do not think they have followed procedure properly. A few times they seemed just as confused about where we are in the process. I have been sitting on my arse all day glued to this and I know what the term numb-skull means now.

[mirrera]

97. Gulp, called Snowe and Collins and other wasted words...

Staff of both said the Senators have know official statement would pass along my concerns.
~sigh~

[shadowknows69]

98. Warner: Blah blah, protect America, I love the CIA because they're in VA

Blah blah blah.

[marmar]

101. John Warner is obsessed with himself.......

It's time for a new Warner in the Senate in VA.

[Pastiche423]

106. This is Warner's last year

He retires at the end of this term.

Anyone on the horizon to run for his seat?

[marmar]

110. Isn't Mark Warner going to run?

It seems like I saw a campaign ad for him somewhere.

[MiniMe]

114. Yes, and he should win

I think Gilchrist will be going for the repuke nomination.

[Le Taz Hot]

102. Seems people are losing interest

(it HAS been a long day). Should I keep this going with #7? Let me know.

[Nictuku]

103. Yes

[Mojorabbit]

105. Yes, I am still watching.. eom

[G_Leo_Criley]

108. Yes, please!

Dodd is up!

glc

[seemslikeadream]

109. I just got in so I'm here and wondering has Dick Durbin

been up?

[pleah]

112. Yes, please.

I have been on all day. Can't watch. Must read. Thank you!

[Dawggie]

104. Dodd reading Mark Klein's whistle blowing report!

Gonna be fun to see which republican answers this... And how much manure they try and throw.

[Mojorabbit]

107. A good smackdown

of Warner's speech.

[Le Taz Hot]

111. Moving to #7

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=389x2486210

Mods: Please lock this one. Thanks.