Who Are We, Financially? (poll)

[RainDog]

With the current financial turmoil, I was wondering how people are doing here. Are we a microcosm of society? If you fit more than one category, you can list the other one in comments if you want to.

[Myrina]

1. B & E

... just making it and with student loans to rival a mortgage payment.

[kineneb]

2. fixed income - disability n/t

[ixion]

3. those who are voting for

"I am financially secure enough to ride out this current crisis."

do not fully understand (or perhaps not expect) the crisis of the proportions greater than the Great Depression.

All I can say is, I hope you folks are right. It's my opinion, though, that we're going to see something greater than the GD, and when the bottom comes out of the dollar, any financial security you have won't be worth diddley.

[Xithras]

5. I'm invested in Euro's.

I moved about half of my investments to euros nearly a year ago to guard against exactly that. As a bonus, I'm actually MAKING money as the dollar declines. Unless Europe declines too, this move is a solid bit of personal insurance against national depression.

[ixion]

6. fair enough

I think that's a good move. :hi:

[Xithras]

19. If you buy euro based CD's through a brokerage, you can even get FDIC insurance.

I didn't go that route, but it's my understanding that there are now a number of CD's on the market that are entirely invested in Euro's but which are entirely American in origin...and therefore which still have FDIC protections. Euro invested CD's have seen gains of 20% over the past year simply based on the dollars devaluation. If you had purchased a CD in euros a year ago with a 5% rate, you'd be up 25% as it now matured. A 25% return in 12 months is incredible.

The question, of course, is whether it will continue. How low can the dollar go?

[Hippo_Tron]

84. You'll be better off with Euros, but certainly not safe especially in the era of globalization

A US financial crisis will cause serious damage to the entire world.

[dysfunctional press]

9. the reason i feel fairly financially secure about the near future-

is due to a strong network of family and friends intertwined to make a safety-net stronger than the one we get with my social security disability payments. communal living is not something that's totally out of the question, either- if things get REALLY weird.

[Mike03]

11. Speaking for myself, I've anticipated major crisis all along

You are very correct that this is a distinct possibility.

Anyone whose wealth is entrusted to institutions right now has a reason to worry. Anyone holding precious metals has a reason to worry. Anyone holding cash on the sidelines of investments will worry that the buying power of those dollars will crash.

I imagine many of the people who voted for the second to last one would have voted for the last one three years ago.

Thanks for raising these issues, because in my mind this is one of the top five most important issues facing citizens of this country. I agree that most citizens have no idea what is coming, or how to protect themselves.

[high density]

66. ???? The "current" crisis is nothing like the great depression

That is why many of us are voting that option. If it becomes something like the great depression then obviously we're all screwed, but that's not something we can predict nor can we charge whether it happens or not. We also can't do much of anything to hedge against it, because such a thing would likely affect the world economy. The real estate market has had the wind kicked out of it and the currency speculation is crazy, but beyond that it generally seems to be business as usual.

[spooky3]

69. Keep in mind that some people own homes free and clear

have lots of cash on hand, low living expenses, grow their own food, have secure jobs, etc. They might lose some money in investments, but won't be nearly as vulnerable as most people.

The only thing that would completely disrupt this scenario is a health crisis.

[RainDog]

4. thanks to all who voted thus far.

I have to get my son now so will someone help keep this kicked for the evening crew? if so, thanks!

[DaveJ]

7. I don't get the last one

Are two people saying they've met Oprah or Soros?

[Mike03]

14. How I read that question

Is that you are very well off--not in the category of Buffet or Gates--but you are very very comfortable, perhaps living extravagantly, and not afraid in the least of an economic downturn.

Or in other words, you are so wealthy that you don't feel you even have to plan for a contingency.

[RainDog]

16. That was supposed to mean...

that you are so rich you are "immune" to any financial crisis - you have too much money to really have a problem, even if you have to downsize to one less house...that sort of thing. So yeah.

the category above that would indicate someone, for me, who has invested well and has a lot of financial security but they would classify themselves as upper middle class, not part of the richest of the rich here.

[DaveJ]

20. Okay, I would have said something like...

Oprah and Soros may be richer but we go to the same resorts, or something to that effect. I would consider that to mean 'billionaire'.

Wow, it is neat how 6 replied to that one. I wonder if they really are that wealthy or if they just think they are. Have you seen that funny statistic that says something like 35% of people think they are in upper 2%?

It is telling though that although a lot of people on the DU are doing well, still, it looks like at least 50% are not, which probably is reflective of the whole country. That is not an acceptable level of financial insecurity.

[Mike03]

23. You don't need to be a billionaire to meet those people

But like you I'm shocked at the number of people who are DUers but in those categories in light of the number of DUers who claim to hate wealthy people.

Maybe I just don't understand the definition of wealthy here.

[Mike03]

26. By the way, I don't think it's upper 2%, but more like one percent

or a fraction of one percent.

One thing that I think would be really cool would be for DU to have a fund for very needy DUers, to which people could donate, and which we could trust the people who run this site to allocate as needed.

I have suggested that at other sites, and they just thought it would not work, but I don't understand why it wouldn't.

[DaveJ]

28. Yes, that would be wonderful, I could benefit from that....

I mean, if there are billionaires responding to this thread, as the results would imply, I'm sure they could afford to give each of the other respondents $100k apiece and not miss it. I promise that I am not an idiot, and would in fact use the money to unshackle myself from the daily grind, and finally accomplish my personal goals which would make this world a better place. But frankly, I think that most rich people could not care less about making the world better when it comes right down to it. But maybe the rich DUers are different -- maybe not.

[Mike03]

54. That's why I'm glad to have some clarification on this question

Like you, I am very curious about the people who selected that last option. Maybe they are just extremely high-rolling progressives, like the individuals who started enterprises like Air America or Nova Radio and so forth, or some of the more public philanthropists in our party.

Or maybe they are lucky and were born to fabulously wealthy parents!

:wow:

The people who interest me the most are those with enormous wealth who conceal the fact they have it in the first place, but nevertheless do good or interesting things with it.

[BadgerLaw2010]

31. The difference between the last category and "upper middle class" is structural, I think.

It essentially comes down to cash financing versus debt financing, in company structure terms applied to a family financial situation. Anyone with a debt structure is inherently more vulnerable to income upsets than someone who has no debt and owns his home and cars outright.

You can live a lot higher on debt financing, but in terms of actual wealth and stability, you are way more vulnerable, especially in a bad credit market.

I think the transition to serious post-debt wealth is where the line is between "financially secure" and "rich", not any particular dollar amount. I can certainly imagine someone with a net worth (after all debts, if any) of $500K being far better off than a paper millionaire with a $750K mortgage on his house and two leased luxury cars.

Hint: If you have $800K in equity and $800K in loans, you do not have a net worth of $1.6 million.

[RainDog]

46. Yes, thanks for articulating that one.

I couldn't put any actual dollar amt. because the cost of living varies so much in the U.S.

[dysfunctional press]

8. i am on a fixed income due to disability, but-

we're also financially secure enough to ride this current crisis out, even though my wife lost her job just before thanksgiving.

[readmoreoften]

10. I have both no job and massive student loan debt.

I am taking time off from teaching to finish my dissertation, but I don't believe I will necessarily have a job when I am finished. I only know two people with 'real jobs' and advanced degrees (and both make in the low 30s.) About 90% of the people I know with degrees have jobs that do not require a degree (carpent cleaning, sales clerk, barista, waitress, stock clerk, driver, mover, etc. data entry) unless they were wealthy and well-connected going into school.

Even with advanced degrees and experience, not to mention a video premiering on an MTV affiliate, the last job I landed was $200 a week no benefits.

I'm not hopeless yet. I think I have a chance. But it is really tough out there.

[BlueIris]

12. Everyone—read this post! nt

[SoCalDem]

22. Familial Status is more likely to insure a bright future

than anything else..You can have degress out the yingyang, and the person less degreed, but who knows someone, will always have an edge over you..

[readmoreoften]

36. More than that, a wealthy family gives you equipment and time to work for free.

It is fairly standard nowadays that the last year--or even two--of college are spent in internships. My students averaged 3 to 4 internships by their senior year. These are no longer 8 hour a week jobs, but 20 hour + unpaid, high stress, real jobs. My students did graphic design for corporations, worked in television studios, produced films for major companies, etc. One was the lead assistant for a fashion photographer at Vogue. All unpaid. My partner not only had to work 2 jobs through school, she needed an $8000 piece of equipment upon graduation that she couldn't afford. So she can't work in her field. She has to compete with rich kids who have everything they need and never needed to work menial jobs or worry.

Frankly, I'm getting sick of sitting around bright, intelligent, hardworking working-class people who were sold a bill of goods: go to school, take out loans, you too can have an interesting career in a field that matters to you! I'm surrounded by people in massive debt who are depressed because they feel like they have no skills. Those that do have skills can't afford the equipment. Those that do have the equipment can't work for free.

I was talking to a kid tonight. She's a good kid but comes from a really poor family. She was conned into a two year program at DeVry that left her with a specific computer skill for a manufacturing system that's completely obsolete. She owes 17K. It's easy to say "she should've known better" but why would a 18 year old kid with no guidance know better? It only compounds the dream-crushing and debt with a heaping of shame.

Last night, I was talking to a guy with a Master's in Public Policy from a great school. He said he did not receive one call back for any job in the city he lived in.

I think private universities are largely predatory and need to be regulated. They are graduating too many people for careers that don't exist. I tell people all the time. Don't go "back to school" unless its to community college to learn a new workplace skill!

[Hoof Hearted]

38. This little doe-eyed bitch in my Soc class who vocally INSISTED loudly to all

that there is no such thing as discrimination because everybody has the same chance to "make it" in the U.S., all they have to do is (I'm not kidding here) QUIT BEING LAZY AND TRY.

That was about six weeks ago.

Three days ago she admitted to me that she was going to lose her Fed aid/loan status because she was failing the class, and maybe another one too. I told her if she had any unfortunate circumstances during the semester she should try writing a letter, that they are usually very understanding. Her response?


"Oh Well, I don't want to go through all that. My daddy's a doctor, so, you know. . . . . I'm O.K."

[DaveJ]

43. Unfortunately that's true

I didn't get the source, but a few weeks ago, they mentioned on one of those morning shows that financial success in the U.S. depends more on what family we come from than it does in many other countries. It totally flies in the face of the ideas people used to think the U.S. was supposed to be based on.

[RainDog]

51. well, haven't we all seen that happen in the highest office in this land?

if ever there was ANYONE less qualified to be president who has actually won, (or stole the election, in this case) -- don't know who that would be.

but George (and Jeb, I'm sure, for future plans) have no reason to be as successful as they are on their own merits. the numbers here so far are interesting. doesn't seem like too many people here are entering the job market. Maybe I should have had a row for "in school."

[DaveJ]

57. Not enough people realize it yet

A lot of dumasses still think that the U.S. is the land of opportunity. There would be a revolution if people really knew and accepted the truth, that hard work and intelligence mean less in the U.S. than in many, if not most, other countries in the world. If more people really felt the full force of what that means, I believe people in this country would do something to remedy it.

[RainDog]

60. France

is still pretty stratified, from what I understand. If you go to the right schools, you know your future is set.

but, yeah, Belgium has a sliding fee scale for tuition and not everyone goes to college - but other jobs pay good living wages, even if they don't require latin and greek... and, of course, the nation has a safety net.

the republicans have spent decades trying to flip Americans off the safety net. Reagan union busting and the S&L looting and junk bonds and Bush Jr. has really, really outdone his dad in the major fuck up of a world power ego struggle.

[sicksicksick_N_tired]

52. We thought an education would provide some guarantee of economic freedom, huh?

I will never forget a seriously right-winging, vicious "Christian" woman bitching about young 'liberal' people destroying our nation.

It was in a grocery line, fer keeRYST's sake!!!

I told her there are college graduates working at the local McDonald's and Kroger and "Video Spot" because big companies would rather hire slave labor in China and India rather than invest in our youth.

She said, "WHAT'S WRONG WITH THAT?"

Whoah! Discussion O-V-E-R!!!

[slackmaster]

79. I never fell for that one

I get tired of hearing people claiming life is unfair because the career path they chose isn't lucrative enough to suit them.

[Tansy_Gold]

88. I fell for it after 30 years of having the knowledge but not the

degree and being penalized $$$ly repeatedly.

I went back to college at age 50 to get a BA, stayed long enough to get an MA, neither of which has done me much good.

But I went back because I'd spent too many years in too many low-level jobs where my AAS qualified me to do my boss's work but didn't qualify me to get paid for it. I can't count how many times I was denied promotions because I didn't have a 4-year degree, but no employer ever excused me from the obligation of doing the work of the degreed person they hired to be my "supervisor."

Two years after I finished school, my husband died and left me with a pile of debts that I'm struggling to pay off, including student loans. I'm fortunate in that I own my house free and clear, which is more than most people can say. However, taxes are a big ticket item and decent* jobs for 59-year-old widows aren't plentiful, not even for ones with a master's in sociology, superior communication skills, a typing speed of 110 wpm, and that 30-year-old AAS in accounting.


*"decent" job being one that pays more than $10/hour and doesn't have too many oppressive "fringe benefits" :sarcasm: like working only nights and week-ends, wearing embarrassing costumes, enduring routine harassment and humiliation, laboring under constant surveillance, etc., etc., etc.


Tansy Gold

[michreject]

13. fixed income W/ medical insurance

plus dental and optical. Rolled over a healthy 401 into an IRA. Wife did the same. House is paid off. Moving to a warmer climate this year.

Retired at 53. 55 now.:)

[Mike03]

15. Maybe we need one last category

Approximately, "Yes, I could live like Oprah, Gates or Buffet, but I am frugal by nature and have too much conscience, self respect and compassion for how much suffering there is in this world to actually indulge myself in that way."

[RainDog]

17. I don't think of the last category as a negative.

It's meant to be an indication of a level of assets, not how they are used. It's just a question about financial resources.

[Mike03]

18. You are right

I guess the negative posts about wealth here lately have spooked me into associating question about wealth with negative feelings about people who have wealth.

However, you are quite right. Thank you for the reminder and clarification.

My father has always taught me that it is not the wealth that matters, but what you do with it. That sounds like a cliche, but I have tried hard to live by that rule.

[SoCalDem]

21. Ebaneezer Screwn

:)

[GreenPartyVoter]

24. Self-employed, Medicaid is our health insurance

[goodgd_yall]

25. No savings and worried about meeting expenses BUT

I also have health insurance.

[RainDog]

27. kick to encourage others to vote n/t

[Bill McBlueState]

29. 2, 3, and 5

2) I have a job but worry about meeting basic expenses. I have little or no savings.

3) I have health insurance.

5) I have student debt that will require years to pay off.

[TransitJohn]

75. That's me too.

I, thankfully, took a degree which will ensure a job throughout the rest of my working life--geology. I work in petroleum, so I'll have work. Graduated with $46k in debt, making barely over $50k per year, just bought my first home 18 months ago for $128k...looks like I'll be on the Alpo retirement plan.

[Sapphocrat]

30. Can't vote. No "other."

I am not employed by a second party because of 1) layoff (December, 2000), and 2) outsourcing (ongoing).

I created my own job (entrepreneur; necessity = mother of invention) but worry about meeting basic expenses. My first two years of unemployment made it necessary to burn through my savings and two once-very-healthy Roth IRAs.

I do not have health insurance. I have not had health insurance (including eye and dental) in more than seven years.

I am personally affected by the current housing bust -- in a GOOD way: I am insulated in one of the nation's few upscale areas where it's a seller's market (not by plan, but by fortuitous happenstance; my family has been here for more than 50 years); I plan to sell in the near future, and take advantage of the buyer's market in other, "busted" areas.

People like Buffet, Soros or Oprah have met in my home (near the coast) -- but only before they were super-rich, so now I'm no longer worthy of their presence or consideration.

[RainDog]

45. I'd say you'd be the second one

with the no health insurance added.

I thought about the current housing issue... whether I should have said "negatively" but in your case, since you are not selling, etc. I would say that category isn't relevant to your situation now.

[InkAddict]

32. 2, 4, 5 & 6

8 is less than a decade away :scared:

[backscatter712]

33. I'm kind of on the border line.

I voted option two, but I'm not really too close to the edge. I actually have almost three months of salary in my oh-shit fund - it's growing right now. I do have a good job, I'm getting a decent salary, I've got good health insurance (unless my insurance company pulls a SiCKO on me and welshes on my care if I get sick and start costing them money) and overall, I'd say I'm doing halfway decently for myself.

I'm still fairly new - I've been at this particular job for about a year and a half, but I'm doing far better than I was doing three or four years ago - completely unemployed and uninsured, couldn't afford to support myself, had to move back in with my parents. Totally depressed and miserable.

I still have a ways to go - a few more months before I can really say I'm as secure as I would like, and can move to improving my standard of living a bit more by buying a house (I'm going to wait until I have a substantial downpayment, and until the housing market crash has really bottomed out - homes will be a lot cheaper then.

[bridgit]

34. Yes! We are. I posted a variation of this last year, it is still clear, DUer's would seem to be...

somewhat well off a large chunk in either event; the poll option being "financially secure enough to ride out this current crisis" could still thread into other notions of apathy imo, democratic, republican or otherwise; Malloy wonders out loud "Where's the outrage is!!" others wonder why is nothing being done?

impeachment is off the table, the republic is off the table, 'compassionate conservative' was never ON the table!! and it's taken too many people too long to even get a clue,

it would seem that in such times, personal survival will-out

[RainDog]

47. without a social safety net

I think it does make people think in narrow terms of survival.. me and mine. A health problem could wipe out a lot of people, or conversely, if someone knows they have a "bail out" via family, the issues of survival don't seem so threatening.

most of us in this nation live in a narrow portion of it, economically. Most of us don't spend a lot of time with people who are far, far outside of our social strata in our leisure time.

[Hoof Hearted]

35. mulitple - b,d,e.

No insurance
Loan debt
no savings

[Tierra_y_Libertad]

37. Have health insurance; fixed income; have enough to ride it out.

The blessings of being a retired fed employee under the old (CSRS) system married to a retired state employee with SS and a good state pension.

Both of us are covered under my Fed BC/BS that I carried into retirement.

No kids, no debts except our mortgage.

[fortyfeetunder]

39. Living way below my means

Well I am going to splurge on what may be the last appliances I'll ever buy for the home but the rest is laying back and watching this mess...

Although I could be fancy in all aspects of my life, I've had enough layoff threats to know nothing is certain in the job market and I can ride out just about anything if I live below my means. Fortunately that is not difficult.

[RainDog]

40. Thanks so much!

To everyone who voted in the poll and for those with comments.

This was my first poll and it's hard to account for everything... and things overlap... I appreciate the comments because most of us have more complicated lives than any poll can understand.

anyway, one more kick if anyone else wants to participate.

[redqueen]

41. Pretty much hand-to-mouth.

Try to save but every so often something will pop up and wipe me out again.

[LucyParsons]

42. B, C, E

b - I have a job but worry about meeting basic expenses. I have little or no savings.

c - I have health insurance

e - I have student debt that will require years to pay off.



I have "good job" as a glorified secretary that took me six years out of college to land. I have no savings, and make only enough to cover my expenses each month.

I, thank GOD, finally have health insurance. Decent health insurance.

I have massive student debt that will be paid off at the same time I am eligible for retirement - age 54.

[RainDog]

44. welcome to DU posting!

thanks for the reply.

sounds like you're hanging in there and things are getting better since you have your shiny new job. :hi:

maybe the Flying Spaghetti Monster will descend to earth and make all student debt forgiven. I mean, if there is a FSM, it seems like that would be a good thing to do. Or a refund cause you got through school... the govt. spent the money well. maybe if people changed their names to Halliburton and claimed the student loans were used to pay for infrastructure in Iraq?

[Lilith Velkor]

48. Disabled, no assistance, uninsured and severely underemployed

I'm one of what Marxists refer to as "lumpenproletariat" and others call "a goddam bum."

Most Americans would rather I and those like me hurry up and die already, but fortunately, I don't give a fuck.

[RainDog]

50. Not all think that way!!

not a majority, I hope. I think the issue is that people are unaware of others' difficulties. If you haven't had the experience of something, it's hard to take such situations to heart over a long term... beyond the holiday or the visit from someone to bring issues to others' attention.

what do you do that brings you happiness?

[Lilith Velkor]

53. I like to read books and surf the net, and study what interests me

From what I have seen, most people don't want to know about anything that makes them uncomfortable. The way it works out in my case is that they want to believe I am penniless because I am stupid or lazy or don't worship the right god in the right way.

I used to feel bad about it, but then it dawned on me that most people around me are brainwashed and/or assholes, and I'm glad I'm not one of them.

[sicksicksick_N_tired]

55. Not me. I am glad you no longer 'give a fuck' about those who can't/won't value you.

You and I really have no measure into "most Americans" hearts. They may very well feel like they are drowning as they sacrifice their very souls to complete/compete in a faux 'American Dream'. I believe they are beating themselves and their lives to an early death as they watch commercials making them feel inadequate because they can not afford buying such ridiculous luxuries like diamonds and cars and a slew of techie shit.

At least you are living and alive in circumstances that so many NEED *for emphasis* NEED to deny because their 'worth' is built upon nothing other than a MYTH, a FALSE REALITY. They, too, will hit the wall of harsh reality: just like you, just like me, just like MOST human beings.

Hopefully, those of us who have all ready had our humanity challenged will maintain our sense of compassion.

:hug:

There are so many people in this world who are living in circumstances similar to yours. They need you and you need them. Reach out. By doing so, it will make a difference in your life and theirs.

Okay? :hug:

[Lilith Velkor]

56. I do care about them, I just don't give a fuck what they think about me

I got my ass bit off the last time I reached out (and the time before that, and the time before that, etc.) so I'm not doing it again 'til I'm good and ready. I'm sure you understand. :pals:

[RainDog]

62. So what's the story?

How did you become disabled, how do you deal with it, what are the problems you face?

[Lilith Velkor]

63. Answers, in order

I was born this way, I don't understand this question, and I have no social skills, which is a signal to bullies much like a red flag is to a bull.

[RainDog]

68. Do you have an autism spectrum disorder?

I have a son with aspergers. his problem with getting around is that he can't drive. too much input. but he's lucky that he can ride the bus where we live. and the town is very easy to negotiate.

anyway, I'm curious, and if you don't mind saying, it might help if you were more specific. I think you have people here who want to know you and your story.

[Lilith Velkor]

70. Yes, Aspergers

I'm a bit paranoid about revealing too much because all my close online friends went away when I inadvertently offended one of them. I get shunned on a fairly regular basis, so I never get the chance to develop people skills, but I suspect I may just be unable to do the whatever-it-is that makes people like you even if you treat them like shit.

I can drive, though. It's a matter of going into a mental state I call "hyperfocus." I was also fortunate enough to get the hang of it without anybody yelling at me. I have no idea how this is effective for normal people, or why it's OK for them to lose their tempers but not me.

Or even why anybody here would want to know me and my story. GD is mostly a game of the dozens, and the Lounge is mostly clique-quack. Perhaps there are some who would find it interesting? I thought most people go online to get offended or watch porn. :shrug:

[RainDog]

71. I don't think aspergers is a disability

our society labels difference - and this same society isn't too smart about what things mean - so people get a name that's supposed to be them. But most of us are a lot more than some passing comment.

My son is a walking sportscast. He knows stats out the wazoo and luuuuuvs baseball. Adults like him because he's sort of "the all-American kid" until he won't stop talking about something and let someone else speak. So sometimes I say to him, you probably need to let someone else speak. I see that it bothers him because he feels "guilty," because he didn't stop talking before people began to feel uncomfortable. But grandmas love him. He can't stand to have a bare light bulb around because the flicker bothers him so much. He also doesn't like unexpected things, like a light suddenly flicking off on its own. He spends a lot of time with himself, but now that he can ride the bus, I encourage him to ride so that he learns his way around. when someone else drives all the time, people don't always pay attention to where they are in relation to other places. He can also walk places from where we live.

when you talk about driving and hyperfocus, do you mean that you will yourself to turn down the distractions - or focus on those sounds that relate to driving? I'd love to know what you do in that situation. it might be something I can pass along to my son for other moments.

My son was dx'd when he was in 3rd grade. Before that the teachers and experts, etc. thought that he was 1. epileptic, 2. a genius, 3. psychotic (because he talked to himself and it was no longer appropriate to talk to yourself in 2nd grade...he still had "an invisible friend." but if you aren't playing with other kids, sometimes an invisible friend is nice to have... it's not like you think it's a real person. anyway, he had to have mri-s and eegs when he was four and then when he wasn't epileptic (we just didn't give him the medicine and wanted to speak with someone else) he got to 2nd grade before anyone thought he was mentally unstable. which he isn't at all.

he's just wired differently.

I don't want you to feel uncomfortable. But I would like to know what's up with you. Do you remember how you found DU? You can send me a private message if you don't want to post here. Like I said, my son is an aspie and I like to know about others' experiences in life who are also aspies. It helps me to know about others because there are so many different ways aspies vary in this world. just like others.

[Lilith Velkor]

73. Oh, OK

It's not the Asperger's that's disabling, it's PTSD and depression from all the bullying and lack of support. I was dxed at the age of 37 by a therapist who also told me she'd never seen a female with it, and her fascination creeped me out so I stopped going. I have a bad reaction to SSRIs and severe trust issues due to bad therapists so I didn't see the point.

At least your son won't have to deal with sexism on top of it. Males have a lot more leeway with the not-knowing-when-to-shut-up thing than females. I also resent it when I'm told for the umpty-umpth time that I have a male brain. I'm like, jeez, do I have a male vagina too? :eyes:

Anyway - when I was first learning how to drive, I played music VERY loud. Now I just concentrate. I don't know if that helps.

on edit: I found DU back in 2001, some dude in a political e-group posted a link to Top Ten Conservative Idiots.

[RainDog]

81. yes, sexism and autism must be hard

I'm sorry to hear about your experiences with bullying and no support. My son doesn't know, sometimes, when he's being made fun of until afterwards. He has a younger brother who watches his back - though this younger brother gets totally outdone with him sometimes.. that's just siblings, too - just depends on what is it that bugs you...

what was life like before you were dx'd? You are surely high-functioning in the situations society demands in order to go through life without a dx until 37. Not to mention driving a car.

I understand about the therapist creeping you out. I bet she meant well, but sometimes they can make you feel like a specimen under glass unintentionally. One time a therapist I was seeing fell asleep! I just sat there till she snorted and woke herself up. Didn't go back. At least you're interesting to your therapist!! LOL.

hmmm, a male vagina... to go with your "male" mind? LOL. It's really too bad that we think in dichotomies so often. I've had a lot of anxiety lately and I already hate math so I guess I would have a Aunt Bea sort of mind to people... (if you ever saw The Andy Griffith Show on re-runs) Society expects females to have some sort of sixth sense about everyone else and that's just not true - but it was a nice myth for some when females were supposed to be "in charge" of the moral well-being of their families.

You know about Temple Grandin, right? She's written some books and Oliver Sacks wrote about her before - she was nonverbal when younger but now designs "painless" cattle chutes. She also developed a "press" for herself to help integrate her sense of herself in space. Someone can do that for you, too, with a big pillow. I've done that before with my son. (After I read Grandin's books, I asked my son questions so that I could better understand, or at least try to understand, his pov.

What do you think about her books?

I don't think the loud music would work for my son. maybe. but he doesn't want to drive anymore anyway. fine with me b/c the more ppl on buses, for whatever reason, the better off cities can be. I'll ask him if he's ever tried that. so far he's halfway through his sophmore year in college and that has been a HUGE and hard adjustment for him. he wants to live on campus next year and wants "the experience" of living with a roommate. I told him that might not be so easy because he might have to constantly monitor himself so that he understands his roomie's need for quiet or whatever and my son couldn't do his "stress release" stuff like play baseball games in his head. he has a whole season that he calls. diff. hits have diff sounds.. a single is cack while a triple is crrack. He's been doing that since he was in elementary school. my neighbors used to think someone had a radio on outside!! (cause he's do this outside and run the bases, etc. too.) He's not agile enough to play baseball, but that was his big dream. I've learned alot about baseball through the years, tho I've probably forgotten half of it, at least.

my obsessions change, it seems. politics has been it for the last 7 years and I am realllllly tired of the roller coaster.

[BadgerLaw2010]

77. As an Aspie myself, I'd have to say "yes and no."

The social...ticks (misreads, one-sided conversations on odd topics, resulting "fear-of-failure") have negative consequences. And they're quite unpleasant mentally because I *know* that something is wrong, but it's worse than pulling teeth to fix it. The consequences of that led to pretty serious depression in high school, with bouts in college and this year as well.

I can drive fine, but something like a club literally overloads me. I can't process the information at all, let alone the social stuff which I don't understand well even without the laser lights and fog and strobe shit.

The hyperfocus and other aspects (memory that functions a lot like a hard drive, able to recall a ton of details with a minor prompt) are out-and-out advantages. For example, I literally did not "feel" the passage of time taking my four-hour Contracts I exam yesterday. I had to manually pace myself, but I didn't feel oppressed by the amount of work either.

Hyperfocus also led to a serious World of Warcraft addiction last year before I started law school, but shifting that to law school is absolutely a massive advantage over "normals."

If grades come in where I think they might, I should be able to get a summer job that pays over $2,500 a week.

It's an interesting tradeoff. I don't know if I would prefer being more normal or not.

[RainDog]

83. Wow

that's interesting. thanks for sharing your experience too.

I think my son has that same experience of knowing someone is uncomfortable but not knowing how to fix it. he had a girlfriend for a while that he knew from high school, but they've stopped seeing each other. He's been pretty down about that so I suggested he talk to a therapist - I really think he needs to have someone outside of his family life to help him deal with school and other things.

I don't know if he has hyperfocus or not. I do know he has an incredible memory. He says it can be a curse, too, because you can't forget some things. well, if that's it, I guess my memory is my curse too. :/

My son isn't interested in very practical things. he wants to act. the memory is good for that, but I don't know about other stuff. I've encouraged him for a long time to combine his interest in sports with his memory and acting - he would be a great sportscaster. But he wants to do "theatah." It's that same old college thing- practical is important too, tho it's hard to see that sometimes. his "practical" is a French major. in h.s. he was in drama but couldn't do musicals b/c he wasn't coordinated enough.. West Side Story did not want him, to his grief. but he was all-state vocal jazz and isn't one bit shy.

that's amazing to me because I was always so shy about getting up in front of a bunch of people. I would literally shake and my voice would sound like some weird vibrato. stlll don't like to do that, unless I know I'm among friends. then, I'm obnoxious. LOL

I've wondered if I should suggest DU's aspie forum. he participates at a non-political site. he's not interested in politics at all. he doesn't like the level of animosity. I'd have to agree, even tho I feel that animosity myself toward the Bush League.

What were/are some of the issues for you in college? What are your areas of interest in law and in general?

sorry if I'm asking too many questions.

[RainDog]

87. oh, another question

but first, congrats on the summer job to come.

so - have you ever tried the workshops for aspies to help work through looking at social cues? Not just facial expressions, but body language that doesn't always get noticed because aspies tend to look at the face but then look away. or so I've heard and my experience is fairly close.

my son is looking into that on his campus. lots of places have autism centers around the country since Asperger's work was so late getting out because of that fear/prejudice/pain of memory of any psychological studies during the Third Reich. His work wasn't translated until.. the 70s or 80s?

my son showed all sorts of aspie behavior before he was dx'd but I would always say... so what's he doing that's somehow bad? If he's two and wants to lift coke bottles filled with different levels of water, why is that an issue? It sure is a cheap toy. the other mothers I was around were not into competition for school stuff. we all seemed to have the philosophy that a kid has all sorts of ways to be in the world and it was fun to see what they chose and what they did. So my experience was to have a high level of tolerance for difference. That was sometimes how you met some of the most interesting people around.

and if may also ask- what area of law are you going into?

[RainDog]

89. last call for votes in this poll...

hopefully, huh?

anyway, one last kick. thanks again for everyone who participated.

[Orwellian_Ghost]

49. #2

Working Poor

[slackmaster]

58. I'm not personally affected by the situation, but my employer is

We've already had a layoff in October (which took out at least one fellow DUer), and the big bosses are plotting another one, much bigger, in January.

I bought my house in 1994 and refinanced it in 2003 with a low fixed rate. I'm in very good shape on housing but the job situation, though my name isn't on The List, feels pretty shaky.

[RainDog]

59. So sorry to hear about the others, including a DUer

Has this been the first round of layoffs this year? how have the last few years been?

[slackmaster]

76. We had a merger in 2006, which resulted in some layoffs

It's been a rough road.

I've been at the company since June 2004. Including this year's (which hasn't been officially given to me yet), all of my annual reviews have been positive.

The first year I got a 0% raise because of a screwball rule about needing to be there a certain amount of time to qualify for a pro-rated fraction of whatever.

The second year I had a very positive review, but the raises were capped at 3% across the board whether your performance was average or excellent. How's that for incentive to work harder?

This year most people including me are going to get 0%. The big cheeses are handing out token raises to people in positions they regard as most difficult to fill. They are in a defensive mode, afraid people are going to defect. Those raises are going to be mostly spun as "market rate adjustments". But according to every free source I've found on the Web, my position is mischaracterized. At the level of work I am doing and my level of experience, my present annual salary is about $5,000 less than the NATIONAL median - And I live in an expensive area.

So my pay has increased on average well under 1% per year, obviously not keeping up with the cost of living.

I have to seriously think about whether or not its in my best interests to cut and run, or maybe confront my boss and the HR manager about my title (which is unlikely to have any good effect other than putting them on notice that I am wise to their tight fist). The only good news is that my out-of-pocket expenses for benefits isn't changing, and another year of seniority increases the percentage of my vesting in the company match on my 401k. That will reach 100% when I have completed five full years. After that, no more perks until vacation time accrual rate increases at about 10 years.

Changing jobs is a PITA, and losing seniority really sucks.

[RedCappedBandit]

61. I am a student..

Fortunately I'm not in debt yet.. but I will be before I get any real job .. so I voted that I am in debt !

[Greyhound]

64. This should be several polls. I/we fit 2 or 3 of your choices. n/t

[Wiley50]

65. TOAST n/t

[RainDog]

67. toast?

as in.. I'm toast? you're toasted?

inquiring minds want to know.

[Blue_In_AK]

72. My husband is on a fixed income (pension)

(Marine Engineers Benefit Association) which keeps getting cut into more and more each year to pay for health insurance premiums (up to $800/mo. for the two of us now). I'm self-employed averaging around $1500 a month, sometimes more, sometimes less. We manage okay. The health insurance is kind of a joke since we never meet the deductible anyway. The only good thing they do for us is fly us down to the MEBA clinic in Oakland once a year for a complete physical. That will all end when we go on Medicare in a couple of years, at which time we will be in trouble because there are no primary care physicians in Anchorage taking new Medicare patients. I guess we'll just have to stay healthy.

[ecstatic]

74. Is it any wonder why so many DUers don't mind throwing the least financially secure among us under

the bus? 33 to 37% sounds about right--the percentage of folks who claim they won't support certain nominees, even if it means insuring another repug victory.

[slackmaster]

78. That argument cuts many different ways, THAL

...33 to 37% sounds about right--the percentage of folks who claim they won't support certain nominees, even if it means insuring another repug victory.

Dogs of many different colors could make exactly the same statement, and probably be right.

[RainDog]

86. I don't think that's the issue here

first, this isn't a "valid" sample - it's self-selected and the number of people who've answered don't come near the number of people here, even if over a hundred people have participated (in terms of a statistical sample.)

second, I would hope people would not take this thread as a place to toss around insults to people they know very little about. I find the "won't vote for x" people are just as if not more often folks who do not have a big economic stake in the world... so we both have totally unverified suppositions.

third- when I started this poll, I was just sort of curious about how people are doing, or think they're doing. then, to see the posts of different people who explain their situations makes the little bar graphs unimportant because this is about, hey, how are you? how do you feel about the future (based upon some practical reasons.)

I feel honored that people have been willing to participate and talk about their situations.

Please don't take the answers and put some negative interpretation around them.

[quiethm75]

80. my situation sucks

I have a job but worry about meeting basic expenses and have way less than three months worth saved. I also have no health insurance. My husband's job offers insurance, but we can't afford it. We live on Long Island, and our rent (small 2 bedroom house) is over 40% of our take home pay. We both work and rarely see each other because we work opposite shifts so that we don't have to pay for childcare. I can't even tell you how pissed I am that we have to live like this. I hope we get a president and a congress that CARES about people like us! :banghead: :cry:

[mnhtnbb]

82. Lucky enough not to have to worry--but facing retirement (hubby is 65)

and our youngest will enter college next year. Hubby is helping our son apply for merit scholarships; we are well enough off to be able to afford in-state tuition at public university, but if he gets accepted at the Ivy League school to which he's applied (Brown) there's no way we can afford to retire and send him there unless he has financial assistance.

[supernova]

85. Currently laid off

When I am able to find work, I am well paid. But my field is not a secure one. It is one that is being shipped to India, along with the rest of the IT industry. :-(

Out of the last 10 years, I've worked seven of those years due to downsizings. I didn't have kids but I feel like I'm behind the 8ball as much as a woman who did. I have not had job security since th 1990s began (who has?).

And god, I'm so tired of it all! :cry: Don't really know what to do next. :-(

[DaveJ]

90. Are you passionate about your career?

The reason I ask is, I studied all through college to get a job in software programming, but since 2000 the prospects in that field disappeared. Nobody cared. It just disappeared. You might have built up more experience prior to 2000, so you stayed in the game longer. If you are staying in such a field due to your devotion to it, I respect your persistence and your resilience.

[supernova]

92. Passionate about

the use of language. I consider myself a student of language and how we use it in the public domain. It appalls me how often public discourse is designed to convey so little meaning. I am always working to subvert that. I always err on the side of more information, more transparency, and I've tried to bring that to my IT jobs over the years.

[RainDog]

91. I see lots of jobs for "Information Architecture"

if you're interested. it's more client centered, maybe. but also jobs in academic situations.

[supernova]

93. Yes, information archecture

is a field that is one step above where I am I think. I could probably do it but I don't have any creditials in that.

I would love to work independently (I find typical office structures to be painfully limiting. I am not disrespectful for anything, but I color outside the lines too much.)