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On one hand, I am definitely not planning to vote for Hillary...

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Bicoastal Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-17-07 06:57 AM
Original message
On one hand, I am definitely not planning to vote for Hillary...
....but on the other hand, I have to respect someone who's had to deal with toxic levels of abuse dumped on her nonstop for 20-odd years and can still face the public every day, let alone enjoy sizable popularity. She's got no shortage of courage, and I find that pretty damn admirable.

Still, I'm going to vote for someone I actually agree with on the issues...
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rpannier Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-17-07 06:58 AM
Response to Original message
1. agreed nt
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hobbit709 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-17-07 07:05 AM
Response to Original message
2. Yep!
If she gets the nomination, I will hold my nose and vote for her but until then I won't.
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cali Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-17-07 07:10 AM
Response to Original message
3. that's a good way of putting it
I won't vote for her in the primary, but I do have a measure of respect for her. She's got guts.
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MonkeyFunk Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-17-07 07:17 AM
Response to Original message
4. Yep
That's one of the main reasons I like her.

In 2000, there was NOBODY in America who could be excused more if they wanted to quietly retire and get out of the spotlight for awhile. But Clinton did not choose to do that - she chose to keep fighting, and won a Senate seat in a very tough state (and yes, it WAS a tough state to win!)

She's a fighter - I love that about her.
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KalicoKitty Donating Member (777 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-17-07 07:48 AM
Response to Reply #4
8. I agree!
She has my support all the way!!!


:bounce:
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mmonk Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-17-07 07:25 AM
Response to Original message
5. Same here.
She has been made into an evil caricature by the Republicans and hate radio, but still I have no plans to vote for her unless forced to. What amazes me is how the right's followers have a visceral hatred of her and it's all by being trained to dislike her. It still puzzles me about her attempts to appeal to a more conservative population.
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monmouth Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-17-07 07:35 AM
Response to Original message
6. I really agree with this. I'd be in tears all the time. She shows great fortitude...
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Perry Logan Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-17-07 07:42 AM
Response to Original message
7. Have a look at her record and you might feel better...
Senator Clinton supported the interests of the NARAL Pro-Choice America 100 percent in 2005.

Senator Clinton supported the interests of the The Humane Society of the United States 100 percent in 2005.

Senator Clinton supported the interests of the National Trust for Historic Preservation 100 percent in 2005.

Senator Clinton supported the interests of the National Association for the Advancement of Colored People 95 percent in 2005.

Senator Clinton supported the interests of the Leadership Conference on Civil Rights 100 percent in 2005.

Senator Clinton supported the interests of the National Education Association 100 percent in 2005.

Senator Clinton supported the interests of the American Wilderness Coalition 100 percent in 2005.

Senator Clinton supported the interests of the Defenders of Wildlife Action Fund 100 percent in 2005.

Senator Clinton supported the interests of the League of Conservation Voters 95 percent in 2005.

Senator Clinton supported the interests of the Children's Defense Fund 100 percent in 2005.

Senator Clinton supported the interests of the American Association of University Women 100 percent in 2005.

Senator Clinton supported the interests of the National Organization for Women 100 percent in 2005.

Senator Clinton supported the interests of the U.S. Public Interest Research Group 91 percent in 2006.

Senator Clinton supported the interests of the U.S. Public Interest Research Group 100 percent in 2005

Senator Clinton supported the interests of the Brady Campaign to Prevent Gun Violence 100 percent from 1988-2003 (Senate) or 1991-2003 (House).

Senator Clinton supported the interests of the American Public Health Association 80 percent in 2005.

Senator Clinton supported the interests of the International Brotherhood of Boilermakers 100 percent in 2005.

Senator Clinton supported the interests of the Service Employees International Union 100 percent in 2005.

Senator Clinton supported the interests of the United Auto Workers 93 percent in 2005.

Senator Clinton supported the interests of the AFL-CIO 93 percent in 2005.

Senator Clinton supported the interests of the United Electrical Radio and Machine Workers 84 percent in 2005.

Senator Clinton supported the interests of the International Association of Machinists and Aerospace Worker 100 percent in 2005.

Senator Clinton supported the interests of the American Federation of State, County & Municipal Employees 88 percent in 2005.

Senator Clinton supported the interests of the American Federation of Government Employees 83 percent in 2005.

Senator Clinton supported the interests of the National Committee for an Effective Congress 95 percent in 2005.

Senator Clinton supported the interests of the Americans for Democratic Action 100 percent in 2005.

According to the National Journal - Composite Liberal Score's calculations, in 2005, Senator Clinton voted more liberal on economic, defense and foreign policy issues than 80 percent of the Senators.

According to the National Journal - Liberal on Social Policy's calculations, in 2005, Senator Clinton voted more liberal on social policy issues than 83 percent of the Senators.

Senator Clinton supported the interests of the Alliance for Retired Americans 100 percent in 2005.

Senator Clinton supported the interests of the Disabled American Veterans 92 percent in 2005.

Senator Clinton supported the interests of the Bread for the World 100 percent in 2003-2004.

Senator Clinton supported the interests of the The Partnership for the Homeless 100 percent in 2003-2004.
http://www.vote-smart.org/issue_rating_category.php?can_id=WNY99268

She was promoting universal coverage before it was cool. Furthermore she helped to create the SCHIP program. And most importantly she was dead on in the debate the other week where she said political will was the most important thing needed to push health care reform through and we know without a doubt she has that.

She has fougt unrelentingly for a woman's right to choose as well as women's rights both domestically and abroad

Create a Strategic Energy Fund - Hillary has proposed a Strategic Energy Fund that would inject $50 billion into research, development and deployment of renewable energy, energy efficiency, clean coal technology, ethanol and other homegrown biofuels. Hillary's proposal would give oil companies a choice: invest in renewable energy or pay into the fund. Hillary's proposal would also eliminate oil company tax breaks and make sure that oil companies pay their fair share for drilling on public lands. Instead of sending billions of dollars to the Middle East for their oil, Hillary's proposal will create a new clean energy industry in America and create tens of thousands of jobs here.

Champion a Market-Based "Cap and Trade" Approach - Hillary supports a market-based, cap and trade approach to reducing carbon emissions and fight global warming. This approach was used successfully to limit sulfur dioxide and reduce levels of acid rain in the 1990s. By capping the amount of emissions in the environment and allowing corporations to buy and sell permits, this approach offers corporations a flexible, cost-efficient method to do their share to reduce emissions and combat global warming. The program will reduce emissions, drive the development of clean technologies, and create a market for projects that store carbon dioxide.

20% Renewable Electricity Standard by 2020 - Hillary believes we need to shift our reliance on high carbon electricity sources to low-carbon electricity sources by investing in renewable energy sources, such as solar and wind. As President, she'll work to require power companies to obtain 20 percent of their energy from renewable sources by 2020.

Make Federal Buildings Carbon Neutral - Hillary believes that the federal government should lead the way in reducing carbon emissions from buildings. Buildings account for 40 percent of U.S. greenhouse gas emissions, and the federal government owns or leases more than 500,000. Hillary would require all federal buildings to steadily increase the use of green design principles, energy efficient technologies, and to generate energy on-site from solar and other renewable sources. By 2030, all new federal buildings and major renovations would be carbon neutral, helping to fight global warming and cutting the $5.6 billion that the federal government spends each year on heating, cooling and lighting.

Protecting Against Exposure to Toxic Chemicals - Hillary wants to make the products we use safer, especially for children. There are tens of thousands of chemicals used in the U.S. and hundreds of new chemicals introduced each year, but little health testing is conducted for many of them. Hillary would require chemical companies to prove that new chemicals are safe before they are put on the market, and would set more stringent exposure standards for kids. She would also create a "priority list" of existing chemicals and require testing to make sure they are safe. To improve our understanding of the links between chemicals and diseases like cancer, Hillary would create an "environmental health tracking network" that ties together information about pollution and chronic diseases.

Hillary's Record

In the White House, Hillary led efforts to make adoption easier, to expand early learning and child care, to increase funding for breast cancer research, and to help veterans suffering from Gulf War syndrome who had too often been ignored in the past. She helped launch a national campaign to prevent teen pregnancy and helped create the Adoption and Safe Families Act of 1997, which moved children from foster care to adoption more quickly and the number of children who have moved out of foster care into adoption has increased dramatically.

She was instrumental in designing and championing the State Children's Health Insurance Program, which has provided millions of children with health insurance. She battled the big drug companies to force them to test their drugs for children and to make sure all kids get the immunizations they need through the Vaccines for Children Program. Immunization rates dramatically improved after the program launched.

Hillary has been a leading member of the Environment and Public Works Committee since she was elected to the Senate. Today, she chairs the Superfund and Environmental Health Subcommittee and in that capacity has promoted legislation to evaluate and protect against the impact of environmental pollutants on people's health and clean up toxic waste.

Global warming and Clean Air
Spoken out forcefully about the need to tackle global warming in hearings, speeches, rallies and on the Senate floor and co-sponsored "cap and trade" legislation.
Worked to reduce air pollution that causes asthma and other respiratory diseases by writing and helping to pass new laws to clean up exhaust from school buses, and other diesel-powered equipment.
Supported legislation to reduce pollution from power plants, including harmful emissions of sulfur dioxide, nitrogen oxides, mercury, and carbon dioxide - emissions that contribute to poor air quality, smog, acid rain, global warming, and mercury contamination of fish.
Aggressively fought the Bush Administration's ill-advised attempts to weaken clean air laws.

Improving Water Quality and Protecting Drinking Water
Helped to overturn the Bush Administration's attempt to allow more arsenic in drinking water.
Cosponsored legislation to protect lakes, rivers and coastal waters by fighting the spread of destructive invasive species, such as the zebra mussel.
Helped ot pass new clean water laws, including measures to protect New York City's water supplies and clean up Long Island Sound.

Protecting Public Lands
Fought oil company efforts to pen the Artic Wildlife Refuge in Alask and Pacific and Atlantic coastal waters to drilling.
Cosponsored the Roadless Area Conservation Act, which prohibits road construction and logging in unspoiled, roadless areas of the National Forest System, and voted for additional funding and manpower to combat forest fires in the west.

Reducing Dangerous Chemicals and Cleaning Up Hazardous Waste
Supported legislation to restore the "polluter pays" principle by reinstating a chemical company fee to fund cleanups of highly contaminated "Superfund" waste sites.
Cosponsored the "kids-Safe Chemical Act," which requires chemical companies to provide health and safety before putting new chemicals in consumer products.
Proposed legislation to create an environmental health tracking network to enable us to better understand the impact of environmental hazards on human health and well-being.

Tackling the Toxic Legacy of 9/11
Pushed for health care benefits for first responders, residents and others whose health has been impacted from breathing the toxic dust and smoke in New York City after 9/11.
http://www.mydd.com/story/2007/8/20/134810/677

Hillary Clinton co-founded the Arkansas Advocates for Children and Families, a state-level alliance with the Children's Defense Fund, in 1977. In late 1977, President Jimmy Carter (for whom she had done 1976 campaign coordination work in Indiana) appointed her to the board of directors of the Legal Services Corporation, and she served in that capacity from 1978 through the end of 1981. For much of that time she served as the chair of that board, the first woman to do so. During her time as chair, funding for the Corporation was expanded from $90 million to $300 million, and she successfully battled against President Ronald Reagan's initial attempts to reduce the funding and change the nature of the organization.

Following the November 1978 election of her husband as Governor of Arkansas, Clinton became First Lady of Arkansas in January 1979, her title for a total of twelve years. Bill appointed her chair of the Rural Health Advisory Committee the same year, where she successfully obtained federal funds to expand medical facilities in Arkansas' poorest areas without affecting doctors' fees.

Hillary Clinton chaired the Arkansas Educational Standards Committee from 1982 to 1992, where she sought to bring about reform in the state's court-sanctioned public education system. One of the most important initiatives of the entire Clinton governorship, she fought a prolonged but ultimately successful battle against the Arkansas Education Association to put mandatory teacher testing as well as state standards for curriculum and classroom size in place. She introduced Arkansas' Home Instruction Program for Preschool Youth in 1985, a program that helps parents work with their children in preschool preparedness and literacy.

And a bit of stuff from the White House years:

Along with Senator Ted Kennedy, she was the major force behind the State Children's Health Insurance Program in 1997, a federal effort that provided state support for children whose parents were unable to provide them with health coverage. She promoted nationwide immunization against childhood illnesses and encouraged older women to seek a mammogram to detect breast cancer, with coverage provided by Medicare. She successfully sought to increase research funding for prostate cancer and childhood asthma at the National Institutes of Health.

The First Lady worked to investigate reports of an illness that affected veterans of the Gulf War, which became known as the Gulf War syndrome. Together with Attorney General Janet Reno, Clinton helped create the Office on Violence Against Women at the Department of Justice. In 1997, she initiated and shepherded the Adoption and Safe Families Act, which she regarded as her greatest accomplishment as First Lady.

Along with Senator Ted Kennedy, she was the major force behind the State Children's Health Insurance Program in 1997, a federal effort that provided state support for children whose parents were unable to provide them with health coverage.<124> She promoted nationwide immunization against childhood illnesses and encouraged older women to seek a mammogram to detect breast cancer, with coverage provided by Medicare.<125> She successfully sought to increase research funding for prostate cancer and childhood asthma at the National Institutes of Health.<43> The First Lady worked to investigate reports of an illness that affected veterans of the Gulf War, which became known as the Gulf War syndrome.<43> Together with Attorney General Janet Reno, Clinton helped create the Office on Violence Against Women at the Department of Justice.<43> In 1997, she initiated and shepherded the Adoption and Safe Families Act, which she regarded as her greatest accomplishment as First Lady.<43> As First Lady, Clinton hosted numerous White House Conferences, including ones on Child Care (1997),<126> Early Childhood Development and Learning (1997),<127> and Children and Adolescents (2000),<128> and the first-ever White House Conferences on Teenagers (2000)<129> and Philanthropy (1999).<130>

Hillary Clinton traveled to over eighty countries during this time,<131> breaking the mark for most-travelled First Lady held by Pat Nixon.<132> In a September 1995 speech before the Fourth World Conference on Women in Beijing, Clinton argued very forcefully against practices that abused women around the world and in China itself.<133> She was one of the most prominent international figures at the time to speak out against the treatment of Afghan women by the Islamist fundamentalist Taliban that had seized control of Afghanistan.<134><135> She helped create Vital Voices, an international initiative sponsored by the United States to promote the participation of women in the political processes of their countries.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hillary_Clinton

"...Hillary Clinton traveled to over eighty countries during this time,<131> breaking the mark for most-travelled First Lady held by Pat Nixon.<132> In a September 1995 speech before the Fourth World Conference on Women in Beijing, Clinton argued very forcefully against practices that abused women around the world and in China itself.<133> She was one of the most prominent international figures at the time to speak out against the treatment of Afghan women by the Islamist fundamentalist Taliban that had seized control of Afghanistan.<134><135> She helped create Vital Voices, an international initiative sponsored by the United States to promote the participation of women in the political processes of their countries..."

More:
http://clinton.senate.gov/issues/nationalsecurity/israel/index.cfm
http://clinton.senate.gov/issues/nationalsecurity/darfur


The following are polls from progressive groups, rating Hillary Clinton and Barack Obama, on how often they vote for progressive issues. For each group, http://www.theleftcoaster.com/archives/011142.php

Clinton Vs. Barack Obama (progressivepunch)
Overall Progressive Score: 92% 90%
Aid to Less Advantaged People at Home and Abroad: 98% 97%
Corporate Subsidies 100% N/A
Education, Humanities and the Arts 88% 100%
Environment 92% 100%
Fair Taxation 97% 100%
Family Planning 88% 80%
Government Checks on Corporate Power 95% 97%
Healthcare 98% 94%
Housing 100% 100%
Human Rights & Civil Liberties 82% 77%
Justice for All: Civil and Criminal 94% 91%
Labor Rights 91% 91%
Making Government Work for Everyone, Not Just the Rich or Powerful 94% 90%
War and Peace 80% 86%
easures to protect New York City's water supplies and clean up Long Island Sound.

HILLARY'S EXPERIENCE ON THE WORLD STAGE:

Her historic speech at the UN Fourth World Conference on Women in Beijing in 1995 not only galvanized women around the world, it helped spawn a movement that led to advances politically, legally, economically, and socially for women in many countries over the next decade. Among other initiatives, she spearheaded the Clinton Administration's efforts to combat the global crisis of human trafficking. She persuaded the First Ladies of the Americas to use their collective power to eradicate measles and improve girls' education throughout the western Hemisphere. And she is widely credited with helping women in Kuwait finally win the right to vote.

As First Lady and now as a two-term senator who represents the most ethnically diverse state in the nation and who sits on the Armed Services Committee, Hillary Clinton has become a fixture on international issues over the past 15 years. She has traveled to more than 80 countries, going from barrios to rural villages to meetings with heads of state. She has consulted with dozens of world leaders - Nelson Mandela, King Abdullah, Tony Blair among them -- on matters as diverse as America and NATO's roles in Kosovo, eradicating poverty in the Third World, and the plight of women living under the Taliban in Afghanistan.

Today, she is one of the most influential voices in the world on human rights, democracy, and the promotion of a "new internationalism" in foreign affairs that calls for a balanced use of military force, diplomacy, and social development to strengthen American interests and security globally.

While American First Ladies historically have made great (and often overlooked) contributions to our nation, Hillary Clinton's wide-ranging experience on international issues as First Lady is unprecedented. Indeed, she is the only First Lady to have delivered foreign policy addresses at major gatherings of the United Nations, the World Bank, the Council on Foreign Relations, and the World Economic Forum.
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Bicoastal Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-17-07 08:20 AM
Response to Reply #7
9. Nope.
I'm sorry, her response to the Iraq war resolution is a serious sticking point with me. And there are others, but that's the main one. It was arguably the most important congressional decision of the decade, and she flubbed it, and hasn't taken pains to apologize for it either. Of course, she's hardly alone in that respect...

I repect her immensely, but I think the country needs someone else right now.

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LynneSin Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-17-07 08:25 AM
Response to Reply #7
11. Don't be an idiot......
...presenting facts to those here at DU who have drunk the repuke grape kool-aid is a waste of time.

For 20 years the Republicans have done a slaughter fest on Clinton ESPECIALLY when it was obvious that she was going to run for office. Their hope was to make her 'unelectable' even if you'd read her voting record and find that she was pretty well electable for most progressives.

I'm a Biden supporter, but if Clinton gets the nomination I'll support her with enthusiasm. And as for these grape kool-aid drinkers - I hope they are well versed on DU rules regarding the general election. Nuff said!
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Bucky Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-17-07 08:29 AM
Response to Reply #11
14. Always good advice, Lynn :o)
We don't have any bad candidates this time around. The pols themselves are behaving remarkably civil compared to past campaigns.
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karynnj Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-17-07 09:28 AM
Response to Reply #7
17. This is overstated- Furthermore she helped to create the SCHIP program.
Edited on Mon Dec-17-07 09:30 AM by karynnj
She was important to getting it passed because she got BC to support it in the budget. However, the bill itself was a Kennedy/ Hatch compromise that made a Kerry/Kennedy bill based on a MA program passed over the veto of Bill Weld acceptable to enough Republicans. Here is an article written at the time of its passing. http://query.nytimes.com/gst/fullpage.html?res=980DEFDC113CF932A2575BC0A961958260&sec=health&spon=&pagewanted=1

I also looked at the Senate speeches of Kerry and Kennedy on the original bill and the speeches of Kennedy, Hatch, Kerry and Dodd (both co-sponsors) of the S-CHIP bill. Hatch goes out of his way to say that this was not Hillary Care. He also differentiated that bill from the Kerry/Kennedy bill. (K/K was an entitlement and didn't give the states the latitude that S-CHIP did - the latitude that allowed Bush in Texas to enroll very few kids.)

I looked into this because I had heard Kennedy speak about it in 2004 (at a CSPAN covered Kerry rally) and I wanted to understand the discrepancies in the stories. My problem is that I know what the media did in 2004. They misused Thomas to say that Kerry did not deserve bills that were say - McCain/Kerry - because the system takes only the first name as sponsor and puts the second into the co-sponsor list. My concern is that it doesn't take too many real stretching of claims to make all claims suspect. HRC has shifted from "initiated" to "created" - initiated is clearly untrue, created, the last word I saw her personally use" is still borderline - hinging on the creation being writing the bill, passing it and getting BC's approval. With that wide a definition, there are hundreds of people who created it. She is on safer grounds when she said "helped to create", but it is still misleading.
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Romulox Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-17-07 09:35 AM
Response to Reply #7
19. As long as she shills for "free trade" and war, none of the rest of that matters to me...nt
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LynneSin Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-17-07 08:22 AM
Response to Original message
10. I'm assuming we're talking primaries here
This isn't the "Hell Let's Support 3rd Parties" Underground
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Bucky Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-17-07 08:27 AM
Response to Reply #10
12. Hey, remember those chip-on-the-shoulder posts in 2004 more or less demanding loyalty oaths...
They'd be all "But if {Dean/Clark/Kerry/Kucinich} gets the nom, you will vote for the nominee, huh, won'tcha, won'tcha?

There'd always be a snark who'd start a thread about, "But if Lieberman gets the nomination..."

Oh, wait, that snark was me!
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LynneSin Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-17-07 08:29 AM
Response to Reply #12
13. Here's the crazy thing - I knew Lieberman was never gonna get the nominee
I mean if he did - I would have supported him, but I figured any guy who thinks Delaware is the key to winning the Democratic nomination (Something even Joe Biden knows better) probably isn't going to have a shot in hell getting the nomination.
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Bicoastal Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-17-07 08:37 AM
Response to Reply #10
15. Sure, I'll vote for HC should she get the nomination. nt
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ThomWV Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-17-07 09:01 AM
Response to Original message
16. You want to see what it means to make it through tough family problems look at Biden
Stunning.
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Toots Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-17-07 09:33 AM
Response to Reply #16
18. He could possibly be Hillary's VP candidate..
He has Gravitas..
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LynneSin Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-17-07 10:15 AM
Response to Reply #18
21. He will not be anyone's VP
Joe has said that many times. But I could see him being Secretary of State or some other type of position that utilizes his strong Foreign Affairs knowledge
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brazos121200 Donating Member (626 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-17-07 09:51 AM
Response to Original message
20. I'm supporting someone else, but a couple of things I like
about a possible Clinton candidacy are that we will need someone that is familiar with and willing to use a full range of "dirty tricks" as she has been accused of. The repubs will unload them by the bucketful on our candidate whoever he or she is, and I want out candidate to be able to pull a few of their own, and maybe even some the repubs haven't even thought of yet, if that's possible. The other thing I think commends her is that the right wing despises her. They can't stand the idea of her being President, for whatever reason. If she became President the right would be in pain and I like that. I have suffered for seven years under this idiot and I would like to spread the suffering around a little. I know I should support someone I think would be good for the country and I do, but if she should get the nomination it won't be all bad.
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