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Mythsaje Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-16-07 03:30 AM
Original message
We, the People, vs. the Corporation
I think a lot of people and institutions mistake the anti-corporate rhetoric of someone like John Edwards, or myself, as detailing a stance completely opposed to the very notion of a corporation, or somehow desiring the utter destruction of the corporation as a legal entity.

From what I've read of what Edwards has to say about it, and from my own point of view, this couldn't be farther from the truth. My opposition to corporate power in this country stems not from a dislike of corporations, but in the way our system of economics and government have grown to deal with the influence of corporations, which, in turn, I believe stems from the notion of corporate "personhood" and the exercise of a person's right to free speech translated into cold, hard cash.

For starters. This misapprehension has corrupted our political process to the point that the corporations, Big Business, has far more influence over our system of government than it should. It is their contributions that often determine who can and cannot run for office, or, even assuming that someone could run for office without their support, how far they might get.

And, given all the resources Big Business invests in seeing the "right" people make it into office, it is ludicrous to assume that it does not see equitable returns on its investments. Business does not continue investing in any venture without gaining something in return. Thus, it seems fairly obvious that these campaign contributions generally have the desired result, and influence the decisions made by those these investments have assisted into office.

But it's more than that, of course. It's the fact that the only moral obligation a corporation has, under accepted law, is to ensuring the bottom line on behalf of its stockholders. Thus, it is not only a normal business practice, but a moral imperative for corporations to do things that may negatively impact a community or even the country as a whole. If it's good for the bottom line, downsizing, outsourcing, and other questionable tactics to lower the company's overhead are "positive" things from its point of view, regardless of their long-term impact.

Corporations are licensed to operate by the government and thus, in my opinion, should have a higher moral imperative to the ultimate issuers of that license, namely We, the People, than simply to earn a bit more money for those fortunate enough to own stock in any given corporation.

It becomes even more of an issue when one considers how many corporate officers earn huge dividends and so-called "golden parachutes," often at the expense of rank and file employees, the communities in which these employees reside and/or work, and the long-term economic strength of the country.

It may have been good for the stockholders, on paper, for companies to downsize their local work force and outsource many manufacturing positions overseas, or even contract with foreign corporations to perform certain tasks, but, as we can all see, it hasn't been good for America. Much of our manufacturing base has been sent elsewhere, leaving those willing to spend a little more to buy American no real option to do so. There's simply nothing to buy.

So these actions hurt American workers, bleed American jobs, and limit the economic diversity of our pools of both labor and capital. In short, it's stealing from the American economic engine to put a little more money in the pockets of a select few investors. And it's not only accepted, it's a legally mandated moral imperative.

Many companies manage to exist as responsible corporate citizens, within the limitations allowed within the system. They give back to their communities, they foster a diverse work force, and attempt to behave responsibly in the ways that matter most. But those that do this are put at a disadvantage by those that do not, for those that don't actually gain benefits from hedging their bets. They play fast and loose with their employees, seek tax exemptions they neither need nor deserve, and do business with questionable organizations overseas, all in the name of inflating their bottom line.

They cut pensions, lay-off or fire their best-paid workers, the ones whose loyalty to the company should have gained them similar loyalty in return, and cut benefits any time it looks like their profits might falter.

It is my position that the first moral imperative of any company should be to contribute as much as feasible to bolstering the American economic engine. Not only by providing goods and/or services that are needed by the community, but by providing a work environment where productivity and morale are kept high by consistent reinvestment in the well-being of its employees. A happy worker is a harder worker. A well paid, secure worker with adequate health benefits is a worker not afraid to spend money and put more money into the overall economy.

A low-paid, insecure worker is not as productive, is more likely to be ill, and is far less likely to help drive the economic machine as a normal course of business.

The problem isn't the corporations itself. It's the atmosphere of exploitation we've allowed certain companies to thrive within. They're not only exploiting their workers, but other companies, and the American taxpayers as well by taking far more from the system than they're willing to put into it.

These are the kinds of organizations that must be brought to heel to see a revived American economy. They must be reminded that they exist on OUR sufferance, and owe us more than their existence and their ability to generate dividends for their stockholders. They must have a higher purpose than simply making money.

There are those who would disagree with me, of that there is no doubt. There are conservatives, who still believe in the myth of the free market. There are socialists, who might think that the corporation itself may be the epitome of everything that's wrong with our capitalistic society, that perhaps large corporations should not be allowed to exist at all, or should be instead turned over to the ultimate ownership of either their employees, or the government.


But the fact remains that as things stand now, many corporations endanger us in more ways that we can count. They endanger us financially as individuals, by expecting far more loyalty than they themselves are willing to give. They endanger us environmentally, by producing and expelling toxins, or by creating goods that are themselves potentially dangerous. And they endanger us economically, by stripping America of its economic diversity in order to enrich a relatively few people who cannot, simply by their small numbers, invest enough money to generate economic movement on a large scale.


And that, in the end, is the bottom line.
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Selatius Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-16-07 03:48 AM
Response to Original message
1. It's not a moral imperative for a corporation to maximize shareholder value. It's fiduciary.
Edited on Sun Dec-16-07 03:53 AM by Selatius
The corporation has a fiduciary responsibility under current law to maximize shareholder value. I wouldn't call it moral, since the laws of a nation and the notion of morality do not always converge. This was basically codified into law under the famous Michigan Supreme Court case Dodge v. Ford that said that Henry Ford cannot needlessly increase operating costs (labor cost, to be explicit) beyond what is desired by the shareholders despite Ford's belief that workers should be paid enough to purchase the products they manufacture. The result? Ford had to declare a dividend for the shareholders rather than divert that year's net profits towards bonuses/pay increases for workers.

If we are talking about corporate accountability, the only requirement I want is that they pay for the clean-up of their own messes. As it stands, the corporation has the habit of externalizing its costs onto the rest of society. Why? To increase the size of its profit margins by cutting out "operating costs," which can include the classic example of cleaning up its own environmental pollution.

Actually, I wish to see a second requirement inserted in. This one was inspired by Germany's industrial relations system. In Germany, management is obligated to include labor representation in the decision-making process. It is the law. Whenever big decisions are made, labor has a voice at the table. This happens in Japan as well, but in Japan this is sort of an understood agreement between management and labor, as opposed to being codified into law. Roughly four decades ago, Japanese management agreed to allow labor representation in the decision-making process as well as generous benefits and lifetime guarantees of employment in exchange for removal of the threat of unionization. Basically, the point is to make the relationship between management and labor collaborative, not adversarial. In the US, it's tremendously adversarial, with management holding most of the power. See the Employee Free-Choice Act and attempts to correct the imbalance.

As a free-market socialist, I favor an SBA-like program, or public investment bank, with the goal of training/educating workers on the concept of worker co-ops as well as financing/advising on their start-ups. The worker co-op is an example where the lines between management and labor is blurred even further. Workers are the managers, and they exercise decision-making power democratically in the workplace. The goal isn't to completely remove the traditional business model from the market place, merely to make co-ops numerous enough across the nation that workers have a true choice to work for co-ops or to work for traditionally-structured firms. Choice--that's what I want to see for workers.
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Flatline Donating Member (285 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-16-07 07:04 AM
Response to Reply #1
7. Isn't that the truth....
The corporation has a fiduciary responsibility under current law to maximize shareholder value.



Even if it means destroying lives of fellow Americans and others abroad.


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cyclezealot Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-16-07 10:31 AM
Response to Reply #1
15. The OP's piece is right on.
Reigning in corporate power is not anti corporate. Its a call for balance, since corporations are not in fact citizens.
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walldude Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-16-07 01:24 PM
Response to Reply #1
20. The corporation under law has to maximize shareholder value? Oh really?
Then why aren't the CEO's who take billions in salary and bonuses in jail? No one needs billions of dollars to live the high life. They could be taking half of what they do now and still live the same lifestyle while increasing the financial payout to the "shareholders".


Sorry, I'm a moron when it comes to business and money, but this "law" you speak of seems to not be enforced.
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Selatius Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-16-07 04:07 PM
Response to Reply #20
24. Usually because the Board of Directors lets it happen.
The Board is comprised of the biggest shareholders, so they get the biggest slice of the profits. If the CEO is taking tens of millions in salary and bonuses each year, it's probably because members of the board are also getting as much if not more in dividends in return for letting the compensation committee be staffed with friends of the CEO himself, which usually happens. In many cases the folks who sit on the compensation committee are appointed merely on the recommendation of the CEO himself.
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walldude Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-16-07 04:24 PM
Response to Reply #24
26. Yeah but didn't you just say that they are required by law
to get maximum profits for the shareholders? That would mean the board is in violation of the law..

Again I'm not business savvy, it just seems illogical to me.
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Selatius Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-16-07 04:34 PM
Response to Reply #26
27. Only as much as the Board deems it is against the law.
Most of these contracts that deal with the inner workings of the corporate entity are enforced through court, not through the police authorities. If nobody brings a lawsuit, it's probably because they're happy with the status quo or know they can't win against the Board's army of attorneys who disagree with the plaintiff over how the corporation is being run.
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walldude Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-16-07 04:40 PM
Response to Reply #27
28. I see so the law is basically a guidline for the Board's decisions
on how to run the company. Thanks for the info, I really hate this corporate shit. I really wish more companies would follow Costco's example.
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Selatius Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-16-07 04:45 PM
Response to Reply #28
29. It's a matter of corporate culture. Costco has a different cultural view than Wal-Mart
Costco sees workers as a source of competitive advantage. Their angle is good customer service. If you treat your workers like crap, of course you're going to get crappy customer service and high turnover. If you're Wal-Mart, treating workers like crap is more tolerable because Wal-Mart's source of competitive advantage is mainly in its low prices, not necessarily good customer service, so they rank workers' views less important than Costco.
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Ron Green Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-16-07 03:53 AM
Response to Original message
2. Our policy making should be informed by moral institutions at least as much as by
commercial ones. In theory, this would be "the Church," to include all entities that seek to educate and enlighten, in balance with "the Market," seeking only to profit. As much as people scream about religion being involved in government, I consider the corporate influence far more pernicious.
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oscarmitre Donating Member (330 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-16-07 04:16 AM
Response to Original message
3. It's been said elsewhere
but corporations are sociopaths.

http://www.thecorporation.com/

The book is better than the film.
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dougolat Donating Member (78 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-16-07 05:00 AM
Response to Original message
4. well put
and these corporate 'persons' are immortal, any forgoing profits for the good of society are subject to hostile takeover by others with purer short term financial goals, and their right to free speech trumps that of mere human persons. There are anti-trust laws that haven't been enforced since Reagan, but the situation really warrants re-evaluating the few court cases that created 'persons' who work so powerfully against the general welfare. Much about this at:
http:www.reclaimdemocracy.org/personhood/
Humboldt County,CA and several places in Pennsylvania worked very hard and won court cases limiting corporate excesses, and these precedents can be used by other localities. There is hope!
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flashl Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-16-07 05:57 AM
Response to Original message
5. The bottom line: When the corporate war declared against labor ends
and a new peace agreement with labor is signed then we will be actly in our collective interest.
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Selatius Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-16-07 07:54 AM
Response to Reply #5
8. No peace agreement can be had unless they've lossed all they've gained so far.
The same principle that applies between two armed nations in war also applies between management and labor. You only dictate the terms of the agreement when you hold the position of strength. The next best option is to beat your adversary to a stalemate and then from a co-equal position, come to a negotiated settlement that both sides find agreeable, but this is done only if your adversary has lost all he's gained against you but has not lost more than that. If he's lost more than that, go back to scenario one: Dictate the terms of surrender to the defeated.

When it comes to relationships between management and labor, it's almost akin to two superpowers in perpetual conflict. In such cases, the only thing the opponent respects is force--the force of sheer numbers, the force of labor.

In the current situation, I think the opponent knows our side is bleeding badly. We've been poorly led in battle, and we've lost a lot of people. Fewer people than ever before are in labor unions, and many more workers have started to accept increasingly bad deals, forgetting how bad it used to be in the past. There will be no peace treaty offered by the other side if they feel they can finish us off for good. We could use the power of the government to bludgeon them to the bargaining table, and I mean bludgeoning them in a very loud, messy way, but we have to get our hands on the government first before we bludgeon some humility into them. I don't want to kill capitalism. I just want to beat it into submission, a bloody pulp of a submission.
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flashl Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-16-07 08:32 AM
Response to Reply #8
10. "use the power of the government to bludgeon them"
Corporate America IS the "government".

It would be difficult to find a single agency in "government" today that is not controlled by corporations; nearly every facet of the U.S. "government" has been privatized.

Private companies writes regulations, budgets, policies, and bills for Congress. Many Congresspersons never see or had an opportunity to read the legislation before they vote.

The previous Congress working two days a week should have been a clear indicator that this “government” is running on autopilot.
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Summer93 Donating Member (439 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-16-07 10:20 AM
Response to Reply #10
12. Done
I believe this was captured by pResident Bush when he landed on the air carrier and declared Mission Accomplished!
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flashl Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-16-07 10:32 AM
Response to Reply #12
16. Sec of Defense Cheney had a head start when he privatized military kitchens
to free up the soldier from KP duty.
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Thothmes Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-17-07 08:50 AM
Response to Reply #16
31. From my experience privatized military kitchens
Have been around since the 1960s. A long time before Cheney got into the game.
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flashl Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-17-07 09:20 AM
Response to Reply #31
32. At some installations perhaps, it went DoD-wide after policy changes under Cheney.
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Thothmes Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-17-07 08:32 PM
Response to Reply #32
34. So this is the tail end of a 30 year old process.
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flashl Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-17-07 09:00 PM
Response to Reply #34
37. Yes, this has been in the makings for some time
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Triana Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-16-07 10:35 AM
Response to Reply #8
17. "I don't want to kill capitalism....
...I just want to beat it into submission, a bloody pulp of a submission."

Well said. My sentiment exactly.
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lisainmilo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-16-07 06:57 AM
Response to Original message
6. Running us into the ground
Corporate greed has left us naked!
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ClayZ Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-16-07 08:05 AM
Response to Original message
9. K and R
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Summer93 Donating Member (439 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-16-07 10:04 AM
Response to Original message
11. Corporation like a soap opera
Lying, cheating, stealing and marrying and remarrying everywhere all the while they have no visible means of economic support (they have all the money and time as though they were all born wealthy). Those that lose everything do not lose their right to wear clothes with sequins or maintain a cell phone.

Rinse, lather, repeat .....
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kurth Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-16-07 10:23 AM
Response to Original message
13. Great post
Thanks for a good synopsis.
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mmonk Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-16-07 10:24 AM
Response to Original message
14. While the corporation is fiducially bound to its stockholders,
Edited on Sun Dec-16-07 10:25 AM by mmonk
it is not bound to the common good. The best solution is separation of corporation and state just as the best solution concerning religion is separation of church and state. Recommended.
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porphyrian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-16-07 10:38 AM
Response to Original message
18. If corporations are to have equal rights as citizens, they must also carry equal responsibility...
...and be equally accountable, which is not currently the case.
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annabanana Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-16-07 02:16 PM
Response to Reply #18
22. Exactly. They have privatized the profit and nationalized the liabilities.
Edited on Sun Dec-16-07 02:16 PM by annabanana
And that is the case right across the board.
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tbyg52 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-16-07 01:15 PM
Response to Original message
19. Yes! It's the corporations, stupid!
At least the way they are currently *un*regulated.
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Blackhatjack Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-16-07 01:29 PM
Response to Original message
21. Corporations are amoral, not immoral. You cannot reason with corporations. ...
They have one unalterable goal --maximize shareholder profits.

THe reason there are punitive damages levied against corporations that engage in egregious conduct is that the loss of money is the only thing which has an impact on their practices.

The famous Ford Pinto(exploding gas tanks) case demonstrated that when the bottom line reflects it is cheaper to pay off the dead and injured than to make the needed safety repair, the corporation will opt not to make the needed safety repair. IT was not about doing the right thing. It was about making that decision more expensive economically for the corporation so that in the future the 'right' decision would be made in favor of people than of money.

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TahitiNut Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-16-07 02:27 PM
Response to Original message
23. Corporate exploitation of labor at its greatest in over 75 years.





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iamthebandfanman Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-16-07 04:13 PM
Response to Original message
25. in the words of Public Enemy
"I like Nike but wait a minite
The neighborhood supports, so put some money in it
Corporations owe, they gotta give up the dough
To the town or else
We gotta shut 'em down"
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truedelphi Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-17-07 02:58 AM
Response to Original message
30. You say: "Much of our manufacturing base has been sent elsewhere, leaving
Edited on Mon Dec-17-07 02:59 AM by truedelphi
those willing to spend a little more to buy American no real option to do so. There's simply nothing to buy."

And now that the dollar is dropping in valur, we may see the end of the cheap goods from China and other developing nations. And we have already sent the factoiries over there, not much way to turn the tide on that one.

I always thought it very brilliant of Micahel Moore to show photos of the wreckage of the Oklahoma City Federal Building right next to photos of the wreckage of the Flint GM Building..

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Romulox Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-17-07 09:27 AM
Response to Original message
33. We're supposed to be cut-throat capitalists by day, but social democrats by night
But it turns out you can't shut off social darwinism at the end of a shift. The economic sphere in the us is every man for himself, and the social sphere follows the same pattern...
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upi402 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-17-07 08:34 PM
Response to Original message
35. corporations are NOT people
Edited on Mon Dec-17-07 08:34 PM by upi402
and should not have rights as a person, independent of the person profiting from behind that curtain.

Pull it back and see a greedy little Oz. Nothing more usually.
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Kansas Wyatt Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-17-07 08:38 PM
Response to Original message
36. Corporate States of America
Has replaced the United States of America.

You do not take your government back by negotiating with those who hi-jacked the from you.

You take it back by kicking their asses to the curb.
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Guaranteed Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-17-07 09:09 PM
Response to Original message
38. Yeah, see, your view is exactly wrong.
Edited on Mon Dec-17-07 09:11 PM by BullGooseLoony
I hate to put it that way, but, to be honest, I'm sick of saying this over and over in responding to the "personhood" meme that is going around the Internet(s).

"Personhood" is a nice little catchy phrase to cling onto, but that concept does not go to the root of the problem with corporations. Corporate personhood has a pretty minimal effect on things.

In fact, you identified the root of the problem exactly correctly, and then denied it: the corporation as it was legally conceived. The problem is the corporate veil itself. Corporate shareholders are not accountable for how their money is made. That is the problem, pure and simple. Pretty straightforward.

Just about all of the issues you brought up are a result of that corporate veil, and not "personhood."
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