My latest, pointless "it wasn't like that when I was a kid" post....

[PurpleChez]

I am a middle school teacher. When I was in junior high and high school ('79-'84) there were, of course, oddballs among my fellow students. I myself was an oddball in several respects. There were, of course, a few kids who were maybe a little too freaky about the Who, Rush, or the Sex Pistols. (For me it was the Beatles.) There was the kid who was mental about Porsches. And, of course, guys who were obsessive about various sports teams. But what I don't recall from my own experience is a parallel to some of the groups I see where I teach today: large groups of kids (not just a mini-clique of two or three) whose entire existance revolves around...for example...skating. They skate. All of their friends skate. Their wardrobe is based on skating. Their career goals are based on skating (become an architect and build skate parks). Any free time means skating. Animosities toward others grow out of skating. They can talk for hours a day, every day, about skating. Everything is skating. And when they can't skate they're recreating skating moves with these queer little finger skateboards. And then there's fantasy gaming. And probably some other things I haven't picked up on.

Some of these are really good kids...some of my favorite students...so I'm not looking for someone to say "I agree...these kids are whack" because that's not where I'm coming from. But at no point in my own public schooling was I ever aware of such large single-focus groups of my fellow students. Now, my schools--or my perception and recollection of them--might just have been different. I don't recall them as being particularly clique-ish or overly status-conscious. (The captain of the football team and the head cheerleader had no power whatsoever over anyone else's social life.) But if this is a more recent phenomenon, where did it come from?

Does DU have any insights?

[Union Thug]

1. I was in Jr. High from '76-79 and my whole world was

Black Sabbath and guitars. I don't think the skaters are so different, although probably a little more social than I was!

[PurpleChez]

9. But you said "MY world"...

Many (most) of us had our areas of special interest, but so many of them were individual...the Porsche kid, the Who kid, the Minnesota Vikings kid, etc. You said "MY world was Black Sabbath and guitars", but was there a group (however loose) of 30, 40, 50 other kids whose world also revolved around Sabbath? (I just read over what I just typed and I hope it doesn't sound like I'm punking you because I didn't mean to....) If there was, that's cool...it's just that, in my experience, there WASN'T, and I've been wondering if I may have grown up in an unusual time or place or if this really is something that has become more common over time. Thanks for the comments!

[Union Thug]

14. Well, yes. Our divisions tended to be broken down as follows

1. The Jock kids - aka football player clique, as well as the cheerleaders and their various cliques. These were almost always children of upper middle class and the wealthy
2. The pseudo-intellectual kids who were always at the head of the line for drama and school music programs. They were often part of the D&D community - a trait that they shared with the Rocker kids
3. The "Rocker" kids - who typically included followers of a range of rock music icons ranging from the The Beatles, to Deep Purple, to Black Sabbath, to the Grateful dead (note, there were some cross-overs between the rocker kids and the pseudo-intellectual kids). There was also a substrate of early metalheads and punks. These kids, at least in my area, were typically the children of working class and low income families. There was also a subset of acid heads who could quote every Monty Python film verbatim, and who enjoyed the Doors and Pink Floyd more than any other bands (the Dead had their representatives here as well), but they seemed to span the socio-economic spectrum more than the metalheads and the punks.
4. Everyone else (these kids were much more socially adept and would maintain friendships with people in any of the above groups but didn't really define themselves as part of the these groups). They didn't define themselves by the teams that they played on or cheered for, nor did they define themselves by the music culture. They fit in, but they didn't fit in tightly with the major 'interest divisions'.

There were also the stoners, but they fit neatly into the rocker kids division.

Oh, one other thing, the rocker crowd, esp. the metalheads and punks, would occasionally engage in large scale fist fights with the jocks. Perhaps once a year. Early expression of class war? I think so, having been part of that rocker crowd and understanding the economic problems most of us lived with - compared to those kids who arrived at school in their parents' BMWs and Mercedes.

[Whoa_Nelly]

2. My son was a skate kid in middle and high school ('90-'96)

And was everything you described...living, breathing, and planning a life revloving all around skating.


Now, he's married, a dad of two (ages 2 & 5), owns a business with employees, and will be netting about $500,000 this year.

I don't think the skate focus from those "teenage brain" days makes any difference. It's what happens after the basic schooling that alters lives, no matter hwat the focus during that time.

[truedelphi]

5. I'll agree with you on this. it doesn't seem to matter

As the mother of a former total nerd, I was so relieved when he left home to go to college thousands of miles away. (I missed him and I hated him going but...) I often had nightmares that he would still be home "gaming" when he was in his thirties.

Like you are saying, a person's life changes as they grow older. He works with computers as his day job and is so busy playing with his little daughter that he asks that I not email - "Mom I just don't check email at home these days"

[morningglory]

13. I had 5 older brothers. We played tackle football in the dirt road in front of the

house until a mysterious moment when the guys would say "Football season is over. Baseball now." I don't believe the tv executives know about this moment. Seems like basketball/football all the way through baseball season and I can't find my game on the tv. I think it is somewhat similar, in that it is fun exercise. See when I grew up, everyone in the elementary school knew my grandparents, and parents and brothers. We were poor (too many children) but bright with good sense of humor, and lots of fun. When I walked into high school the first day all the teachers knew a lot about me and my background. Now, with bussing (sp?) kids are bussed 15 miles away for "balance". They go into a very strange place where they know no one. Clothes are like an animal's pelage. They let everyone know where the kid comes from. The clothes say "skater" or Black Sabbath or whatever. They don't need introductions. My grandson went to a new middle school in a military area of N. Florida. They had a mock election prior to 2004 elections. He was a Kerry candidate. His teacher hated him the rest of the year.

[MedleyMisty]

19. What's wrong with gaming?

If you enjoy it?

[truedelphi]

22. Gaming is fine. It is just as a mom

I'd be so happy when the thirteen year old would say, "I am going out now for a while" and it turn out he was going to a friend's to sit in their dark basement and be on the computer.

Moms like kids to be out in the sun and I don't know, call me old fashioned, throw a frisbee around once and a while.

[PurpleChez]

7. I hope you didn't misunderstand

I didn't intend any value judgement against these kids whatsoever...like I said, some of them are my favorite students. It's just that I don't recall anything similar from my own school days. With the very notable exception, perhaps, of the sports teams, there were no large groups built so strongly around a single common interest. I'm not saying that it's bad or good or anything...it's just new to me.

[truedelphi]

16. I think I understood that.

I think the notion that a child's wardrobe helps them explain themselves to the world is a good description of what is going on - like the community these days is not represented on its own due to bussing and due to its collapse in some places.

I do wish that every high school taught martial arts - as it might break down the barriers that exist.

When martial art disciplines are properly taught, as an art form, they even helps those who are not athletic into becoming so. And people who once divided up into different groups find a commonality.

[Whoa_Nelly]

18. I totally didn't take it as a value judgment

I agree there is a difference from days gone by, and now...and yet there isn't.

I was jr. high-high school '67-72, and by the time I was in HS, I was total identification with the hippie group...and all that went with it re: peace, love, dove, and we were going to change the world.

So, maybe no matter what the groups kids are in, it's never really simplistic. It's all about what shapes them as they grow from the late teens into becoming their definition of adult.

The more things change, the more they look the same.

That was the point I was making, and completely understand what you are perceiving today.


You are doing a good thing by being a part of their lives now. Congrats! and :hug:

[Lorien]

20. I'm of your generation, and I don't remember anything like what you've

described in high school or Junior high. I went to a very progressive school for more advanced students ("geek high"), so we weren't the most normal group around. We did have a lot of D&D players and Society for Creative Anachronism participants (I was one of those), but no one's world revolved around those things. We all had other interests as ell; art, music, hiking, sports, reading, movies...whatever. These days I have a group of younger friends (early 30's) who spend most of their time talking about world of warcraft and guitar hero. They even have wardrobes themed around these things. I admit, I get a bit board after a few hours spent with them. They just don't have much else to talk about. The activities we participated in as young people involved a lot of interaction and conversation with others, while cyber activities offer fewer opportunities for those types of exchanges. Perhaps that's why people get so deeply entrenched in those worlds; they don't get many glimpses of anything else.

[PurpleChez]

31. Good point

sometimes it seems as if these kids, even the nice ones, would be hard-pressed to spend a day doing or talking about anything other than skating (or gaming or whatever)

[Mythsaje]

3. That puts you directly in my same age group...

I even went to school through the same time periods you did.

Junior high was the pits. It's when, from my recollection, pressure to conform was the highest. I, of course, didn't. I've never been good at it. By the time I got into high school, I was in the heavy-metal, fantasy-gamer, stoner crowd.

I think what you're seeing is the pressure for conformity taking a pretty singular course. I couldn't imagine what it was back when I was in junior high...I went to nine different ones, in different states in the West. If there was a over-weaning culture, I didn't see it. But, then again, I wouldn't have.

I would imagine a lot of these kids will splinter off into different interests as they get older, when the pressure to conform relaxes a little. They'll find their own groove, their own interests, and skating will drop off.

But that is, of course, merely speculation.

[nightrider767]

4. Can You Say "Surfing Safari"!?!

I thinks kids have always branched into their own sub-groups when available. I was in high school in 78-82 and what you described is just like our surfer dudes in school. Hang Ten, Ron Jon T-shirts, and Van sneakers....

[MiniMandaRuth]

6. It's just a thing.

It's the same way at my school, for instance, I'm in the 'Fantasy Gamer Group'

My friends are in it, I'm in it... I want to become a writer for a company to develop stories from. There's just more ways to escape these days, and in the little towns, kids are taking those chances.

[PurpleChez]

8. thanks for the perspective

of someone who is still "there." And I'm glad that you knew I wasn't trying to bash anybody. My memories are of the three or four guys who liked to talk bicycles, the three or four guys who were really into ska music, the three or four...you get the picture. I'm not saying that the skaters, gamers, or other groups today are "monolithic," because they're all made up of distinct individuals, but they just look a lot moreso than anything I remember. Thanks again!

[TheFriendlyAnarchist]

28. Yea, there are groups of all types just like that.

I personally hang out a lot with the stoners. Even though a lot of us don't do many drugs, we pretty much like doing 'stoner-esque' things.

[SmokingJacket]

10. I hadn't noticed that, but yeah.

It's actually a good thing, IMHO. We didn't do anything but drive around listening to music. BORING. And of course I read books when I was alone.

I don't have any insights, but I think it has to do with the new information age: trends spread faster, information and products (like skateboards -- couldn't buy those in my hometown, but now there's the internet) are all much more easily obtainable.

And kids can get on the net and see lots of other cool kids they want to emulate.

[iamthebandfanman]

11. to be honest it wasnt like that for me (in the 90s!)

maybe it just depends on the school and the community in which the school is located?

if it did occur at my school, it was minimal at best.
yes, kids did seperate into close groups of friends... but the groups werent discriminated against or looked down upon by any other group of friends. everybody got along.

like i say, maybe its more community or the school social atmosphere that drives it, not the kids themselves.

[SteelPenguin]

12. I think it depends on the activity

Skateboarding is one that, being done primarily outdoors, allows alot of kids to cluster. Very much like a sports team. The clustering creates feedback, peer pressure, and things can get pretty monolithic.

It's not so with say...Black Sabbath records. Oh sure you could have gone to a Black Sabbath concert witha few of your friends, but how many people could fit into your room, plug their headphones into your record player and listen to the same music siting there together.

Those kids still exist of course.

With Skateboarding though it's a combination of a social activity that rewards interaction, as well as being far more visible. I bet there are plenty of kids at your school that you barely notice whose hobby's would shock and/or astound you. The skateboarders though being far more visible tilt the scale again in their favor.

I think it's also regional to a degree.

[seemunkee]

15. I was a climber

I took a half day my senior year and went to the rocks every afternoon. I worked in a mountain shop and almost all of my friends were climbers or involved in other outdoor sports. This was in the early 70s.
For my older brother it was drugs. All his friends were druggies and that is all the did.
Doesn't seem all that different from what you are seeing.

[THUNDER HANDS]

17. kids today bother me

I'll have my own, hopefully they'll turn out differently than the one's being raised by the loser parents of today.

[aikoaiko]

21. For me, I had to choose between the Led Zep or Deadhead hackysack circles.

It was really serious.

[formerrepuke]

23. The skating obsession will diminish as their bodies age.. (well within 10 years)-

no matter how fit and flexible they try to keep themselves.

[PurpleChez]

24. I'm not even worried about that....

I'm just curious: if this isn't a new thing then it's all a matter of me not having seen it before. But if it IS new: what "need" or "function" are these super-groups fulfilling? Was it not addressed in earlier generations, or was it met in other ways?

[Javaman]

25. It's the water.

it's turning kids in to skater pods.

[PurpleChez]

29. Skater pods! Bwah-HAH!

I don't have anything against skating or skaters per se, but there does sometimes seem to be a touch too much similarity (or as they say back in central PA, simularity) among some of these kids. I know there is always a lot of conformity in youth culture, but I'm still put off by the idea of corporate logos as counterculture symbols. Wearing a shirt that says "Volcom" in huge letters is in no way different from one that says "Exxon" or "ADM" or "Bechtel" on it. The hip-hop scene is even worse--the idea that forking over 100s of dollars to display a bunch of corporate logos is somehow a sign of your individuality or your membership in a culture or counter-culture. One of my students (who I really like) uses this screwy cartoon voice a lot of the time. Recently I noticed that many of the skaters use the same screwy voice. All the time. Conformity is conformity. Frank Zappa once told an audience that had been heckling a uniformed soldier something to the effect of "everybody in this room is wearing a uniform, and don't you forget it."

[yardwork]

26. I have two teenage boys. I can think of some major changes since the 1970s.

When I was in middle school in the 1970s there was no cable TV, no videos, no videogames (we got a Pong set when I was in high school). If there was a special on TV, most people would be talking about it the next day at school - adults and kids. Now, there is such an array of choices, and so many products, that everyone can have their own particular niche interest.

Licensing has greatly increased since the 1970s, too. As you note, it's not just that some kids like skating. It's that all the products they own, wear, and use have skating motifs. Commercialization on this vast scale means that everyone's favorite "thing" is available in every conceivable item of clothing, electronic object, home furnishing, or toy. This branding makes it a lot easier to recognize the skaters instantly. Same with the gamers, etc.

There were definitely groups in my high school. The "popular" kids were wealthy, privileged, snobby, and well-dressed. The "smart kids" were hard-workers who got good grades. The "druggies" were, etc. etc. You get the idea.

[PurpleChez]

30. Flashback!

I remember what a big deal it was when a "special" was going to be on TV. And that when a big "kid" movie, like "Willie Wonka" or "Chitty Chitty Bang Bang" was on how everybody would be talking about it the next day.

[Manifestor_of_Light]

27. I was in orchestra.

I was obsessed with classical music and playing my instrument for years.
I later put it down, in my 20s. I still play the piano and am still quite interested in music but have changed the direction of my focus.

I didn't really care about much else, besides why the boys wouldn't ask me out. They wouldn't ask me out because smart girls didn't have dates back then.