For the record--it's an Iowa NEWSPAPER that's preventing DK from participating in the debate...

[Bicoastal]

...not Hillary or Obama.

...not the DLC.

...not the Democratic Party leadership.

...not the Iowa Democratic Party leadership.

...not Iowa in general.

It's the Des Moines Register, the ones sponsoring the Debatem, who made this decision. All other parties are innocent until proven guilty.

[skipos]

1. Aww... can we blame them anyway? nt

[Bicoastal]

7. Why sure!

DU'ers are the Incredible Hulk personified--they're not happy with smashing just one tiny little building...

:hi:

[IronLionZion]

15. Of course we can. We always do anyway. Dems are easy targets to pick on. nt

[bobthedrummer]

2. Owned by Gannett...

[Annces]

3. Thanks for the info n/t

[magellan]

4. Since you know it's the Des Moines Register

...do you know why?

[Bicoastal]

9. Actually, no...

...although, based on Alan Keyes' inclusion, I'm guessing it's not a Dem-run paper.

Why, do you know something I don't?

[magellan]

12. Sadly no

Yours was the first post I read this morning and I was only wondering if you knew more.

So it might be the paper's slant or it might be because DK doesn't have a campaign office in IA. Either reason is for the birds, IMO.

[GreenArrow]

30. actually, DK DOES have a campaign office in Iowa

The fact that it is run out of someone's home rather than being a rented storefront seems to be the issue. And yes, it's a bullshit excuse.

[Renew Deal]

5. Is it a RW newspaper?

Why are they letting Keyes debate? His kid wouldn't even vote for him.

[progressoid]

14. Not really.

They endorsed Edwards in 04. They trend left of center. My RW relatives think they are part of the "liberal media" Some DUers may see them as centrists but I wouldn't call them RWing.

[dbackjon]

6. I'm blaming Oprah.

[rsmith6621]

8. No Doubt.......

....The DMR has received pressure from......Hillary or Obama.......the DLC....and the...Democratic Party leadership...


DK speaks the truth.....none of the above does in the same spirit and they don't want him up there disrupting the plan...

[Bicoastal]

11. I doubt it...

I think it's a GOP-run paper--they're letting Alan Keyes participate in the other debate. Probably decided Dennis was too insignificant--or "loony left"--to allow him to participate.

Besides, why would anyone on the Democratic side go to all that trouble to exclude DK? He's particpated in nearly every debate thus far, and it doesn't seem like he's posed a major threat to anyone IMO, especially not in Iowa.

[progressoid]

16. Nope.

See post 14 or this from Wiki:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Des_Moines_Register

Editorially, the Register has long supported the Democratic Party. This dates at least to the days of the Cowles' ownership; many family members held high posts in Democratic presidential administrations. The paper was a severe critic of George W. Bush's wireless wiretapping strategy, claiming that in doing so, "President Bush has declared war on the American people." The newspaper's editorial page does however endorse moderate and conservative Republican candidates for state and federal offices routinely.

[dmallind]

10. let's ask three really important questions before we go all nuts:

1) Are the criteria for inclusion equally applied to all candidates?

2) Did the campaigns know of the rules in advance?

3) Have they stayed the same?

If the answers are "Yes" to all three then even blaming the DMR is more a sign of a misdirected temper tantrum than any warranted angst. Are all the other candidates (and I mean ALL) invited? Or just the ones who followed announced and consistent rules and met the stated criteria for inclusion?

[Cessna Invesco Palin]

17. Where's Alan Keyes' Iowa HQ?

That will go a long way towards answering #1. Can't find a damn thing about it on his website or the interweb at large.

[dmallind]

18. Buggered if I know. Weren't rhetorical questions, but real ones. NT

jklkh

[IronLionZion]

13. ROFLMAO!!! The prejudice on this board never ceases to amaze me!

[rateyes]

19. Then, every Democrat who subscribes should

cancel their subscriptions, right now.

[bonito]

25. And usa today as well

same company same ceo.

[lonestarnot]

20. Fuck you Iowa! And fuck your newspapers!

[KharmaTrain]

21. Their Polling, Their Right To Include Or Exclude

If DK was polling in double digits be assured he'd be on the podium. From what I've read, his support in Iowa has been all but invisible and the lack of a campaign office...the most basic needs in a state where organization is key also was taken into consideration.

Here's the rub...Iowa not only votes for a first choice, but a second one as well. Those who choose a fringe candidate get a second chance to switch to a more popular one and this appears to be the DMR's focus. For months we've had the large cattle call debates where none of the candidates were able to utter more than soundbites. With just a few weeks before the caucus, voters want to hear more specifics...especially from the top contenders as caucus goers will likely be asked for a second choice.

If Kucinich polled strongly and could swing this caucus one way or another, I think they would have included him, but with such low polling numbers in the state, the powers that be have determined time used to question him is best spent going for the other candidates.

I applaud DK for bringing the Iraq war and impeachment into the debates. but at this late date in the caucus game, people are trying to focus on who will get their vote on Jan 3 and, like it or not, who is electable.

[cyclezealot]

33. I don't vote electable

I'd vote who is right and does their job. Not one Democrat bothered to read the Patriot act before their Congressional. Electable often means incompetent.

[KharmaTrain]

37. So We Just Let Repugnicans Win Unopposed?

The next time the Des Moines Register has a debate on the comprehension of the Patriot Act, then we can have a full debate featuring only DK and no one else. Yes, it's commendable that he read it...but what else did he do? Rhetoric goes only so far...I've asked this of DK supporters in the past and I'll get everything thrown at me other than the answer to the question I've asked...and that's showing Kucinich's accomplishments in writing and pushing legislation through, things he can say he sponsored or laws he has his name on. I wanted to see his ability to lead and work with others...I'm still waiting.

Yes electable means a hell of a lot...its what puts your party in power, its what makes changes happen, it is how our system works. Losing elections give you booosh and Scalito and Patriot Acts and Torture and futher destruction of our rights. I'd rather have "imcompetent" than nothing.

Fortunately the fine folks of Iowa and in other states will evaluate these candidates and determine who is right for the job. I'll take their votes over a lot of empty rhetoric anyday.

[cyclezealot]

43. so you are gonna vote for candidates who did not do their

jobs and gave us the Patriot Act. I'll vote for someone who knows what the hell they are doing. As far as I am concerned those Democrats who voted for the Patriot act and the Iraq war are complicit with Bush and Company. They voted for it and had an obligation to know what they are voting for. For all that, I am not so sure Hillary would not continue to employ the Patriot act. Gooons like her, we need a third party. / I suspect really a huge part of this story is, Democrats don't want to be reminded tonight that they just signed on for an additional 70 billion dollars for Bush's war. Makes it easier for Hillary to vote for the 70 billion.

[loudsue]

22. This is SO wrong. We can't allow them to get away with this.

Is there some way we can call/e-mail blast their advertisers to change this? DK is the ONLY candidate on the Dem side who has been right on the money on EVERY issue that is important to grassroots Dems.

I say, hit the advertisers, and hit 'em hard & fast.

:kick:

[rucky]

23. It was bullshit when the AARP did it, and it's bullshit now. n/t

[bvar22]

24. If Dennis is gone, who will tell America.....

“Unlike other candidates, I am not funded by those corporate interests.
I owe them no loyalty, and they have no influence over me or my policies.”---Dennis Kucinich

They don't fear Dennis, but they FEAR his message:
America is owned by the People and NOT the Corporations!
When enough Working Class people realize this, we can be rid of the parasites.

It is soooo embarrassing for the "serious" candidates to share the stage with someone who is CLEAR & Consistent on the issues while they triangulate and weasel.


When DK is eliminated from the debate, who will tell America that:

*Single Payer Universal HealthCare is not only possible, but cheaper.

*that "For Profit" HealthCare is obscene

*that Mandatory Health Insurance is NOT REALLY Universal HealthCare

*that the Democratic Party and American taxpayers should NOT be forced to subsidize some of the richest CEOs in history by subsidizing the HealthCare Insurance Corps and HMOs.

*that the USA SHOULD give the Imperial Palace (Green Zone) back to the Iraqis, close the permanent bases, expel all Corporate Consultants, withdraw ALL US Troops, and begin paying reparations NOW.

*that redeploying some troops at some future date is a PRO-WAR position.

*that the "Oil Law Benchmark" supported by the Democratic Party is a War Crime

*That we can have election accountability with "Paper Ballots publicly hand counted at the precinct".

*that we CAN cut $Billions$ from the Defense Budget

*that the RICHEST Corporations in history do NOT need $Billions$ in welfare subsidies

*that NAFTA (Free Trade) has not been a good thing for Americans who have to work for a living



Who will tell the truth to America if DK is kicked off the Democratic stage? :shrug:
Dennis Kucinich's voice is one of the few reasons I am still in the Democratic Party.
Kicking DK off the stage IS kicking ME off the stage.....



The Democratic Party is a BIG TENT, but there is NO ROOM for those
who advance the agenda of THE RICH (Corporate Owners) at the EXPENSE of LABOR and the POOR.

[cyclezealot]

34. certainly no one it the current

pathetic crowd running for president.

[lame54]

26. then contact them and reverse their decision...

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=389x2456442

[CoffeeCat]

27. Some info on the Register...

I'm just adding some bits and pieces, and I hope that other Iowans (who are
more in-the-know than I am) will chime in and add some insight to this
discussion.

The Chief Political Correspondent to the Des Moines Register is DAVID YEPSEN.

Yepsen is a complete tool and a DLC cheerleader. I'll tell you one thing, he
lambastes Edwards every time he gets a chance. In a tongue-in-cheek Thanksgiving
article, Yepsen was asked to list what the Dem candidates should be thankful for.

Yepsen said that Edwards should just quit and be thankful when Jan 3
(date of the Iowa caucus) was finished, because Edwards was not doing well
here. Of course, none of this is true. It's a tight, three-way race. His
post-debate article and how he called Edwards "Johnny Boy" and practically
called him a crybaby, was obviously biased.

Yepsen writes many glowing articles about Obama.

Yepsen is also a featured correspondent on FOX NEWS. He talks about Iowa and never
passes up a chance to leverage some candidates, and never misses a chance to slam Edwards.

I don't know what influence Yepsen has in this debate process, but he is undoubtedly,
a major player at the Register and in Iowa politics--and he has been for decades.
Yepsen himself wrote an article--pointing out that most of the Kucinich's caucusers
went to Edwards--because Kucinich was not viable. Could this be a strategy to hurt
Edwards, by squelching support for Kucinich?

The moderator of the debate is Carolyn Washburn. She was the Executive Editor of the Idaho Statesman from 1999 to August 2005--when she took the top position at the Des Moines Register. In 1999, the Idaho Statesman endorsed BUSH.

My guess is that Kucinich is an antagonizer of ALL of the candidates. It is most likely that
no Dem candidate wants him up there--making them look bad. They all want to tout their
messages and not step into any holes that someone could dig for them--just two weeks before the
debate. Kucinich could dig those holes, big time.

Kucinich has not run a campaign here in Iowa. I've never rec'd a phone call from his people
(and I have with all other candidates), nor have I seen a Kucinich ad. He has no office here
and his Iowa polls have him around 2 percent at best. It's possible that running an Iowa campaign is a prerequisite for attending the Register's Iowa debate. I have to say, if Dennis wanted to get in on this debate, he should have shown up in Iowa. Maybe we might not be having this discussion now and he would be included in the debate. In a way, he enabled his own exclusion.

My guess is that the Register and all of the Dem candidates just don't want him there. They
excluded him, and can easily play the "he didn't run a campaign in Iowa" card, because he
clearly didn't.

Again, I hope other Iowans chime in. I'm certainly just one person and not an expert.

[Bicoastal]

28. I'm not from Iowa, but I think your third-to-last paragraph is key....

"Kucinich has not run a campaign here in Iowa. I've never rec'd a phone call from his people (and I have with all other candidates), nor have I seen a Kucinich ad. He has no office here and his Iowa polls have him around 2 percent at best. It's possible that running an Iowa campaign is a prerequisite for attending the Register's Iowa debate. I have to say, if Dennis wanted to get in on this debate, he should have shown up in Iowa. Maybe we might not be having this discussion now and he would be included in the debate. In a way, he enabled his own exclusion."

This is an Iowan speaking, right? So if DK honestly isn't making much of an effort in the state, why should he be miffed (or ANY of us be so offended that we start hollering "Conspiracy!!") when not invited to a state-specific debate? I think we DU'ers lose site of the fact that outside of this and other like-minded sites, an awful lot of areas in the country have no idea who Kucinich is--and I wouldn't put Iowa anywhere near the top of places that probably do. That having been said, would it have killed him to have tried a little more strenously to bring his message to the Heartland?

[eridani]

42. And Alan Keyes is making an effort?

How do they justify including Keyes?

[cyclezealot]

35. the above is evidence that Iowa should not be allowed

such a dominant role in choosing the president of the United States. A provincial state with a little sense for democratic values. Iowa gets far more influence than their numbers demand and the debate is skewed. The whole system needs be abandoned for a national primary with free, equal air time for all contenders. Then the presidential race would be open to more than just our coroporate string pullers.

[CoffeeCat]

36. I couldn't disagree with you more...

The problem here is with the Des Moines Register. They are the gatekeeper, on the
issue of the debates, not the people of Iowa.

Let me tell you something about Iowa. We may be provincial. I'm not naive enough
to not understand the stereotypes of Iowans. However, I ask you to open your mind.
Do you know anyone from Iowa?

Iowans are very community-minded and family oriented. We are good and decent people.
Neighbors help each other, communities rally around each other when someone needs help.
We are grounded, intelligent people who value education. I always find it amusing
that someone from a more populous state, has such a negative, incorrect view of Iowans--yet
we Iowans fully understand what is going on in other parts of the country.

We've had "first in the nation" status for a long time. We completely understand how
important this is. We take it very seriously. We trudge into the snow and cold weather, that
we have this time of year, to hear the candidates speak. We listen, ask questions and
we feel privileged to have that "first" status.

I don't speak for all Iowans. However, I do know that America is lucky to have the people
of Iowa in this role. Most recently, Hillary Clinton said that she "couldn't get a handle
on the people in Iowa", meaning that she couldn't pass off sloganeering, planting questions
and bs---off to us. The Hillary team planted questions at Iowa events and our citizens
went to the media and revealed this. That took courage and guts. Right now, Hillary
is sliding in Iowa (but not as much on a national level) because the people in our
state are experiencing her as an empty pantsuit. We demand more than sound bytes
and mass events where empty platitudes are spoken.

Hillary's demise in Iowa is an example of democracy working, and a candidate doing poorly because they are not authentic, honest and possessing depth. Isn't that what you want? Don't you want
the process to weed out those who aren't fit to serve as President?

Please, before you denigrate our state and the people---understand that the decision to
exclude Kucinich is about a Gannett-owned newspaper--the Des Moines Register. It is not
about Iowa or Iowans.

Thanks for listening and for considering what I've said.

[dweller]

39. Would you please post this as a thread on its own?

i think it says alot about this 'debate', and about the Iowa Debate too.

peace
dp

[B Calm]

41. Excellent post!

[cyclezealot]

45. thanks for usurping a role

that rightfully belongs to all Americans. So pleased to know you are more dedicated than others , so therefore you have a right to have greater influence than your numbers merit.

[kas125]

29. Dennis' myspace calls it "censorship"

myspace bulletin from DK's campaign --

Dear Kucitizens of America,

It's Time to Stop the Censorship of Kucinich:

The Des Moines Register has invited Chris Dodd, Hillary Clinton, Bill Richardson, Barack Obama, Joesph Biden Jr., and John Edwards, but they have not invited Dennis Kucinich.

Now, If you have been looking to get involved in the Campaign, but don't happen to have days to devote - this is one way where you can make a difference:

Call the Des Moines Register at 1-800-247-5346 and protest their private decision to censor a public election. The Iowa Caucus has National Implications and the Des Moines Register is excluding Dennis Kucinich from the Debate based on local politics. If that infuriates you, step up and call the Des Moines Register at 1-800-247-5346.

Better yet, call their Editorial Board too:
Carol Hunter - 515-284-8502
Laura Hollingsworth - 515-284-8041

They were scared of having a repeat of this:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qYWWBwf2wHE

Let the Des Moines Register know at 1-800-247-5346


--
Sanjay Seth
Kucinich for President, 2008
Students for Kucinich,
National Coordinator
[e-mail]

[SoCalDem]

31. and yet Alan Keyes was invited to the republican forum

:wtf:

[ShaneGR]

32. Lesson of the day, having your campaign manager work from home, NOT GOOD

Tends to make it look like your campaign organization is a joke.

[TripleD]

38. Seems like a fiscally responsible thing to do

Why blow money on a physical office when a virtual office will suffice?

Should candidates be excluded for being good money managers?

[cyclezealot]

44. and office is an office

with working staff. It's just a big scam to not let us hear about impeachment , war, trade issues. Newspapers pretty much are big supporters of Nafta and the WTO. That is whats going on. Censorship.

[B Calm]

40. Is Dennis on the ballot in Iowa?