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TORTURE TAPES WEREN'T THE ONLY THINGS ERASED BY THE WHITE HOUSE

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leveymg Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-12-07 11:51 AM
Original message
TORTURE TAPES WEREN'T THE ONLY THINGS ERASED BY THE WHITE HOUSE
Edited on Wed Dec-12-07 12:49 PM by leveymg
Newsweek reports today that the White House pressured the CIA to erase the tapes recording the interrogations of two key al-Qaeda figures, Abu Zubaydah and Abd al-Rahom al-Nashiri. Harriet Miers, President Bush’s personal lawyer, was the principal White House negotiator with the CIA on how to manage emerging public awareness of torture during these interrogations.

What the American people aren't being told, yet, is that waterboarding effectively erased the memories of an al-Qaeda leader -- and possibly several other major figures involve in planning the 9/11 attack -- who knew the details of what the CIA had learned in advance about al-Qaeda training and planning for 9/11.

***

While initial media accounts reported Miers advised against destructions several hundred hours of videotape records, a Newsweek article now indicates that the tapes destruction was a “political issue” decided outside the Agency by someone "directly representing" Bush. This resulted in nearly two years of drawn-out negotiations with the White House, finally carried out after the departure of CIA Director George Tenet under Bush’s CIA appointee, Porter Goss: http://www.newsweek.com/id/76574/output/print

a senior CIA lawyer, John Rizzo, now the agency's acting general counsel, was also conducting discussions on what to do with the tapes with White House lawyer Harriet Miers. Two sources said that Rizzo also discussed the issue with officials at the Justice Department, which had issued classified guidelines outlining how the CIA's interrogation program should operate.

The reason CIA officials involved the White House and Justice Department in discussions about the disposition of the tapes was that CIA officials viewed the CIA's terrorist interrogation and detention program—including the use of "enhanced" interrogation techniques—as having been imposed on the agency by the White House. "It was a political issue," said the former official, and therefore CIA officials believed that the decision as to what to do with the tapes should be made at a political level, by Miers—a former personal lawyer to President Bush and later White House staff secretary and counsel—or someone else directly representing the president.

The current and former officials said that discussions between Clandestine Service officials and their superiors and between the CIA and White House unfolded in what one source described as "fits and starts" between 2003, when the matter first arose, and late 2005, when Jose Rodriguez Jr., then head of the Clandestine Service and still a CIA officer today, made the final decision that the tapes should be destroyed. People who are familiar with the views of both former CIA chiefs Tenet and Goss (and who spoke to NEWSWEEK anonymously because of the sensitivity of the issue) have said that at the time the question of the tapes' destruction was under discussion, both CIA directors indicated that they believed it would be unwise to destroy the tapes. The tapes' destruction actually occurred when Goss headed the agency.


***

Both Zubaydah and al-Nashiri played instrumental roles in the 9/11 attacks. Zubaydah knew all about the CIA’s role in training the 9/11 hijackers, and the U.S. was well aware of the details of the planned attack. See, TORTURE VIDEO: WHAT THE CIA DOESN’T WANT YOU TO KNOW ABOUT ABU ZUBAYDAH, http://www.dailykos.com/story/2007/12/10/133754/60/799/420257

Abu Zubaydah ran training camps in Afghanistan, where he trained six of the 9/11 hijackers, including Flight 77 squad leader Nawaf al-Hazmi. The 9/11 attackers were passed to him by a second al-Qaeda logistics expert, Luai Sakka, with whom he also worked organizing the so-called Millenium attacks. Researcher Paul Thompson has identified Sakka as a likely double-agent, working for U.S. and Syrian intelligence. Sakka is now in Turkish custody.

It has been reported tha Zubaydah has been driven insane. This is a common outcome among those who have been subjected to long periods of torture. Water boarding results in particularly serious neurological and psychological damage. Zubaydah’s memories may have been effectively erased by oxygen deprivation during repeated water boarding. Without killing him, that insured that he wouldn’t be able to provide credible testimony, later. The missing tapes would document that process of erasing or rearranging his memories. As to whether that was the primary purpose of waterboarding this particular detainee, we may never know.

Like most torture measures used by CIA, water-boarding leaves no tell-tale marks on the surface of the body, and is no doubt easier to explain in an after-action report than the death of a high-value detainee.

The second al-Qaeda figure whose interrogation tape Hayden claims the Agency destroyed in 2005 is Abd al-Rahom al-Nashiri, allegedly al-Qaeda’s planning chief for the Persian Gulf. See, http://ap.google.com/article/ALeqM5geGD7gzEWvMiKRhD3OK-6eO_iWQgD8TFPGEO0; also, http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Abd_al-Rahim_al-Nashiri

Al-Nashiri was present at the January 2000 al-Qaeda planning summit held in Kuala Lumpur, Malaysia at which the 9/11 attack and the bombing of the USS Cole were mapped out. He is reportedly the mastermind of the Cole attack. Flt.77 hijacker Nawaf Al-Hazmi was also involved in organizing the Cole attack. Al-Hazmi had been under CIA and British surveilance since the mid-1990s. Also present at that meeting with al-Nashiri and al-Midhar was fellow Flt.77 hijacker, Khalid al-Midhar. The Agency and “a half-dozen allied services“ monitored the Kuala Lumpur meeting, and then tracked al-Midhar and al-Hazmi as they proceeded on to Thailand, before boarding a January 15 flight to Los Angeles. Upon their arrival at LAX, the CIA Counter-Terrorism Center (CTC) drafted a cable alerting the FBI. That notice was, apparently, never sent following an order to withhold it pending the approval of higher CIA officers. The FBI reportedly did no learn about al-Hazmi and al-Midhar were in the U.S. until late in the summer of 2001, when they looked at the role of al-Hazmi in organizing the Cole attack. See, http://www.dailykos.com/story/2007/12/10/133754/60/799/420257, Ibid.. also, http://www.scoop.co.nz/stories/HL0310/S00257.htm ; http://64.233.169.104/search?q=cache:lt53dSSXcaIJ:www.cooperativeresearch.org/context.jsp%3Fitem%3Da0101ciacolereport+ALhAZMI+cOLE+ATTACK&hl=en&ct=clnk&cd=3&gl=us&ie=UTF-8

Beyond his water boarding, few details has been reported publicly about the testimony and condition of al-Nashiri. We have been told that Zubaydah was shot in the groin during capture, medication withheld. He was later water boarded, and is now described as insane. What is not mentioned in such reports is that his memories likely have been effectively erased by oxygen deprivation during repeated water boarding. Without killing him, that insured that he wouldn’t be able to provide credible testimony at a later date, after his usefulness had expired. The tapes, one can conclude, would document the process of rearranging his memories, along with those of al-Nashiri, who is also reported to have been water boarded.

If you want to preserve evidence, and obtain accurate testimony, repeated water boarding is the last thing you would do. But, intelligence collection apparently wasn’t the purpose of torturing Abu Zubaydah. Otherwise, they would have used other methods to extract information from that individual. As events showed, the CIA got the information it wanted soon after they captured Zubaydah, not through water boarding, but through deception.

As Mr. Posner pointed out, the CIA extracted the most valuable information simply by tricking Zubaydah into providing the names and confirming information about the five Saudi and Pakistani leaders who knew about the 9/11 attacks before the fact. That four of the five died as they did within a few short months thereafter, and Saudi Intelligence Chief al-Turki was spared, gives Posner's account a lot of credibility in my book.

To know why they erased the record of Zubaydah and al-Nashiri’s interrogations, just look at what they once knew, information that they will now likely never be able to testify about in open court.

Finally, it was Harriet Miers who read George W. Bush the famous 08/06/2001 PDB. They would no doubt claim today that what they had to say to each other about warnings of al-Qaeda attacks is still a matter of attorney-client and presidential privilege.



______________________
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BrklynLiberal Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-12-07 11:53 AM
Response to Original message
1. Any of these dirty tricks a surprise to those who have had to live with prez shit-for-brains and
his cohorts since they stole the White House???
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aquart Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-12-07 11:54 AM
Response to Original message
2. Attorney privilege?
Did they allow Clinton any?
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RussBLib Donating Member (292 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-12-07 11:55 AM
Response to Original message
3. It's obstruction of justice
And it's a crime. But (sigh) the weak-kneed Democrats will likely do little more than wring their hands and complain. I am so disgusted by the wimpy Dems. I think we need to destroy the whole thing and start over.
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Virginia Dare Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-12-07 11:57 AM
Response to Original message
4. Erasing memory through oxygen deprivation..
That explains the look on KSM's face:



and Saddam's:



No doubt in my mind, somebody made sure neither one of them would ever talk.
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Schema Thing Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-12-07 04:05 PM
Response to Reply #4
13. Saddam wrote to very eloquent letters just before his death
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Virginia Dare Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-12-07 06:59 PM
Response to Reply #13
17. Can we be 100% sure it was Saddam who wrote them?...n/t
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donkeyotay Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-12-07 06:07 PM
Response to Reply #4
16. It always bothered me how many times these images were shown on tv.
Yet, the congress complained when a couple of American POW were shown on tv, early in the war, that merely showing them was a violation of the Geneva Conventions. They voted unanimously to hold Iraq to account if they so much as humiliated an American prisoner - yet, we showed Saddam's "dental exam" over and over as well as the other picture. We were supposed to be better than this.
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peacetalksforall Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-13-07 12:54 PM
Response to Reply #16
31. They showed Michael Berg's beheading over and over. (DId I get his first name right?)
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donkeyotay Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-13-07 01:24 PM
Response to Reply #31
32. Yes, always selective in the images shown repeatedly, like how Lynndie England
became the white trailertrash posterchild for Abu Ghraib, effectively removing folks like, oh say, General Miller from scrutiny. Here's Janis Karpinski being interviewed by Marjorie Cohn, August 3, 2005:


JK: And Cambone and all of these people have literally taken control of the inner workings of this Administration. It's just insane that - does anybody think that Lynndie England came to Iraq with a dog collar and a dog leash, with the idea of putting one around the prisoner's neck, and having a photograph taken?


She talks about the CIA, but doesn't blame them. She brings up the contractors that everyone has forgotten about. And she talks about something else I'd forgotten, that Miller came to Abu Ghraib from Guantanamo to "gitmoize" it.


MC: And General Geoffrey Miller was the one who was supposed to transplant those interrogation and torture techniques from Guantanamo to Abu Ghraib?

JK: That's correct. There are sworn statements, not only from the interrogators and FBI personnel down at Guantanamo Bay prior to even a thought of using Abu Ghraib for a prison location. These torture techniques were being implemented and used down at Guantanamo Bay and, of course, now we have lots of statements that say they were used in Afghanistan as well.

In late August and September of 2003, Miller comes to visit, then everything starts to change, to including transferring the responsibility for Abut Ghraib over to the Military Intelligence people altogether. And it's been substantiated through an investigation that these torture practices were developed and implemented down in Guantanamo Bay and then they were imported to Abu Ghraib.

. . .

JK: No, despite the failures of the Administration and the pentagon to deploy these soldiers with the right equipment and the right training and assign the right mission, these soldiers were doing a great job. In 17 facilities, more than 40,000 prisoners throughout the time, the only photographs and allegations of abuse were in two cellblocks under the control of the Military Intelligence command and designed and Incorporated by General Miller during and following his visit to Iraq.


How about that. No wonder they can't afford tapes of Gitmo. I also recall a female MI interrogator who was at Abu Ghraib. She committed suicide, but not before she'd warned her family not to believe it if that happened to her. She said the regular MI were scared to death of the contractors.


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peacetalksforall Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-13-07 02:45 PM
Response to Reply #32
33. Yep, check Blackwater - tapes transferred to them for analysis for
improvements and training - just a guess - but wouldn't be surprised.
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WinkyDink Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-13-07 04:15 PM
Response to Reply #31
36.  What channel? I don't recall this.
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TheMadMonk Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-13-07 09:34 PM
Response to Reply #36
37. They they. Not we they. And on the Internet. nt
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TwilightGardener Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-12-07 12:00 PM
Response to Original message
5. I don't know...why wouldn't they have just killed Zubaydah instead
of traumatizing him to the point of erasing his ability to testify? If the 4 Saudis who Zubaydah named were assassinated, why didn't the CIA just have him "commit suicide" in his cell after he gave up his info? Unless they were using him to study and perfect torture techniques long after the point where he stopped giving up valuable intel.
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leveymg Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-12-07 12:02 PM
Response to Reply #5
6. My guess, too many people knew he had been captured.
His death in custody would have raised a lot of questions.

It may be that memory deficit post-interrogation was merely a two-fer side beneft.
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hisownpetard Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-12-07 12:10 PM
Response to Reply #6
7. K&R. Thank you for this stomach-churning but very important post.
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mod mom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-12-07 02:30 PM
Response to Reply #5
11. rec'd!
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defendandprotect Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-13-07 11:06 AM
Response to Reply #5
23. They were probably trying to use him as a witness to prosecute him ---
Edited on Thu Dec-13-07 11:07 AM by defendandprotect
we have NO prosecutions ---
and they couldn't do it if he had any brains left ---

Also, these deaths at the time of the other TORTURE news and renditions later may have
become suspicious even to a public finding it difficult to keep track of all the scandals!!

Whether they over-waterboarded or simply just still found it necessary to get rid of these two
witnesses to 9/11 as an inside job --- who knows?

Maybe only Auntie Harrie --- and perhaps we know now why she got the Supreme nomination --- !!!

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seemslikeadream Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-12-07 12:17 PM
Response to Original message
8. i's dotted t's crossed
Edited on Wed Dec-12-07 12:21 PM by seemslikeadream







DEAD BECAUSE OF A LIE

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Javaman Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-12-07 12:25 PM
Response to Original message
9. This gives rise to a new term: Memory theft. nt
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defendandprotect Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-13-07 11:09 AM
Response to Reply #9
24. They may have been trying to do this as well with chemicals --- injections --- ????
Even spookier --- if you can erase memory ---
you can probably also give the client a new memory of things that didn't happen!
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Javaman Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-13-07 03:31 PM
Response to Reply #24
34. Like in Blade Runner with Rachel?
Mmmmmm, Rachel. LOL
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defendandprotect Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-15-07 04:04 AM
Response to Reply #34
40. Never saw it --- what happened?
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defendandprotect Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-15-07 04:05 AM
Response to Reply #40
41. If the supposed "info" is correct, we were also using Al Qaeda in Chechyna --- !!!
Cute --- !!!
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deminks Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-12-07 02:26 PM
Response to Original message
10. KICK, it isn't about getting information, it's about erasing information
Torture - it's what's for self preservation! They know it doesn't work. This is why it doesn't matter that it doesn't work for getting information. God almighty. O brave new world that has such people in it.
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Schema Thing Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-12-07 04:04 PM
Response to Original message
12. Isn't this a little homegrown?
this idea that waterboarding can wash-the-mind-of-memories?


C'mon, unless it reduced the person to a drooling incoherent (and of course it could), it doesn't comport with what I know that it would simply take away memory.
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defendandprotect Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-13-07 11:10 AM
Response to Reply #12
25. All torture has the potential to do psychological damage ---
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Judi Lynn Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-12-07 04:10 PM
Response to Original message
14. Thanks for taking the time, leveymg. Will set aside time to study it. n/t
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Disturbed Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-12-07 04:49 PM
Response to Reply #14
15. Tapes were shitcanned but what nobody mentions is that
there were, no doubt, Transcripts of the Interrogations. Were those Transcripts shredded?

The evidence was obviously more damaging than possible charges resulting from the destruction of that evidence. The decision was made that it was better to risk being charged for the destruction than the evidence being in the public. I suspect that no one will actually go to prison over this.
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Swamp Rat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-12-07 07:07 PM
Response to Original message
18. Bushler&Co. destroyed U.S. history.
Their crimes transcend all known forms of punishment.




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Canuckistanian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-12-07 10:31 PM
Response to Original message
19. Hmm, John Rizzo and Harriet Miers in a conversation about damning tapes
I wonder how that will turn out?
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KoKo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-12-07 10:50 PM
Response to Original message
20. Thanks Levymg..... very interesting ...once again.
Edited on Wed Dec-12-07 10:54 PM by KoKo01
Reading this I thought of a friend of mine whose mother sadly tried to commit suicide by sitting in her car in a closed garage with the motor running. They found her in time to save her life..but she never was able to remember much after that. She could function and even held down a job that involved dealing with customers ...but part of her memory was wiped out and her daughter (my friend) said that she often confused details about what she insisted she could remember.

I can imagine the trauma of oxygen deprivation plus the sheer terror or the circumstances would cause much memory loss and mental distortion to a person experiencing wateboarding. And, if the waterboarding was observed by a skilled instructor in psychological manipulation, that even certain thoughts could be introduced into a person's mind who was under such stress causing the person to distort or not remember something correctly because the sequence of the even doesn't match the retelling in any rational way. Even without psychological intervention the distortion might still just occur on it's own as it did with my friends mother who was overwhelmed by exahust fumes to the point where she almost didn't survive.

That the M$M story has always been that Zubaydah was supposed to be a "low level Al Qaeda Op and that it was so cruel to torture a mentally deficient man," (as if he had a pre-existing mental derangement) would seem to be typical CIA or BUSHIE Propaganda to give to the masses. We've learned that when Bushies and Media point in one direction we should always be looking in the opposite direction.

Who knows if Posner's theory is correct...but it surely could use some extra investigation. There are just too many "odd" Saudi deaths connected with this...for there not to be "something" there...whatever it is. So much coincidence is kind of hard not to question.
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countryjake Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-13-07 06:41 AM
Response to Original message
21. So much to read about this...thanks for all of your research, levey
kick, bookmark, and recommend
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tavalon Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-13-07 07:07 AM
Response to Original message
22. The thing that confuses me around this
isn't that they erased them. That's a no brainer. But why in the world weren't they able to keep this out of the public eye. Is there a leaker at the CIA? Did Lord Pissypants piss off some spook that he might not shoulda?
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defendandprotect Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-13-07 11:13 AM
Response to Reply #22
26. Someone fears the threat of a Buschco attack on Iran is was imminent and real --- ???
Edited on Thu Dec-13-07 11:13 AM by defendandprotect
and maybe even NUCLEAR . . . ?????

That's how insane these people are ---
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defendandprotect Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-13-07 11:15 AM
Response to Original message
27. Thank you, Leveymg --- also Zubaydah seems to have implicated us in Chechyna ---
Which we should have been able to guess at --- !!!

Would two more have made all of these deaths more questionable --- ???

QUOTE: As Mr. Posner pointed out, the CIA extracted the most valuable information simply by tricking Zubaydah into providing the names and confirming information about the five Saudi and Pakistani leaders who knew about the 9/11 attacks before the fact. That four of the five died as they did within a few short months thereafter, and Saudi Intelligence Chief al-Turki was spared, gives Posner's account a lot of credibility in my book.UNQUOTE
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SpiralHawk Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-13-07 11:26 AM
Response to Original message
28. Call these anti-American republicon homelanders of their crimes, Congress
Act now. Impeach this cabal of criminals.
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99th_Monkey Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-13-07 11:27 AM
Response to Original message
29. great post! thanks. I never believed for a minute that the WH "objected" to tape shredding
It's moderately gratifying that this boldfaced lie did not wash for more than a couple of days in the media.

This whole tape affair again points clearly to foreknowledge and complicity by the WH/Cheney factor in at least allowing
911 to happen, if not outright planning and orchastrating it, so the PNAC boys could have their "new Pearl Harbor".

I'll say it for the umpteenth time.. investigate, subpeona, investigate, subpoena, and prosecute these barbaric thugs
to the full extent of the law, at whatever the cost. It is the ONLY way to restore this country's self-respect and the
rule of law.
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TheMadMonk Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-13-07 10:11 PM
Response to Reply #29
38. "at whatever the cost." And there I think is the rub.
The cost of cleaning up is truly staggering.

Since among other things it means the taking down or over of numerous mega corporations. At a minimum it means crashing the US Stock Market and probably markets worldwide. It should include major regulatory reforms of corporate business practices including penalties which take all profit out of breaking the rules. And do it in the face of (quite possibly armed) heavy resistance.


Unfortunately, I suspect that the least costly way to fix America right now is to wait for it to finish breaking and then try to put the pieces back together. And I think a lot of people know this and are hastening that breakdown in a way which gives them the best chance of coming out on top in the aftermath.
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99th_Monkey Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-13-07 11:11 PM
Response to Reply #38
39. That would explain the Dem "wimp factor" I guess.. they've already given up.
given up on saving America and are just hoping pathetically to keep their "jobs" pretending to "represent" the people ... as for who'll be "putting the pieces back together" in the aftermath of America's demise, from the looks of things it will be the Chinese, Blackwater, Halliberton, et. al. ... not a very pretty picture, and hardly anything to be "hoping" for in my book. That's precisely why we must have someone like Kucinich in the picture, because he hasn't given up on America yet and has a comprehensive vision for resuscitating what's good about America and averting totalitarian rule-by-default...like a Newer-New Deal
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peacetalksforall Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-13-07 12:51 PM
Response to Original message
30. 9-11. This is probably one of the most loaded posts with new inforation
Edited on Thu Dec-13-07 12:59 PM by higher class
that I have ever read.

However,

this paragraph - kind of ruins it all for me.

"What the American people aren't being told, yet, is that waterboarding effectively erased the memories of an al-Qaeda leader -- and possibly several other major figures involve in planning the 9/11 attack -- who knew the details of what the CIA had learned in advance about al-Qaeda training and planning for 9/11."

"... and possibly several other major figures involve in planning the 9/11 attack -- who knew the details of what the CIA had learned in advance about al-Qaeda training and planning for 9/11."

It just doesn't match up to anything in my belief about who was responsible for what on that day.
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Marr Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-13-07 03:52 PM
Response to Original message
35. Impeachment hearings would be a political boon for the Democrats.
Edited on Thu Dec-13-07 03:55 PM by Marr
Don't even tell me about how they "don't have the votes". This issue needs to be made into a public spectacle. Hold impeachment hearings immediately, and Republicans can only do one of two things in this election year:

1. Support the unpopular Bush Administration in these criminal acts-- acts that will repulse the average American once they're made aware.

-or-

2. Abandon the Bush Administration and allow impeachment to succeed.

Any politician who defends the Bush Administration now is tying themselves to a sinking ship. They will lose their seat.

What's more, a successful impeachment will wound the GOP deeply, and Republican politicians know this even if Dems don't. The *only* thing the right wing base will not abide is a loser. Make the GOP lose on this, and they'll lose millions of voters whose support is based solely on the right's perceived "strength".
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Disturbed Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-15-07 06:21 AM
Response to Reply #35
42. The majority of Repugs don't seem to care about public
opinion. They are mostly in favor of the US Occupation of Iraq, Torture no Health Care for Working Families that cannot afford Health Care for their children. Maybe they know something that we don't.
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