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I met a victim of a hate crime last night. I want to know how to help.

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lazyriver Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-12-07 11:30 AM
Original message
I met a victim of a hate crime last night. I want to know how to help.
This was a first in my life. I guess I've been pretty well insulated from such things because I've read here on DU how many people are victimized every year but have never personally met anyone who has had to deal with this kind of thing. That changed last night and the reality of it, the tangible experience of meeting this person and hearing about what happened has changed me somehow. It's angered me in a way I have never known and can't describe. I want to do something to help this person but as you will see, the most logical option doesn't seem possible. Does anyone have alternative advice?

I met a large group of friends from my last place of employment at a local bar & restaurant last night. It was a celebratory affair since their company had issued profit sharing bonuses earlier that day. It was going to be an all out party. I was the last to arrive and everyone else already had their first round on the table or on the bar. There were two bartenders working and each took turns covering the tables in the bar area. One of them came over to drop off a couple drinks at our table and take my order. He very obviously had a very bad night recently as one of his eyes was blackened with a small mouse under it and the other was horribly swollen and black. His cheek had more than a dozen fresh stitches in it and was also black and swollen to the point of looking grotesque. The tip of his nose was scabbed over from an abrasion and his upper lip was swollen. I politely ordered a beer, tried not to stare and did not ask what happened. He seemed in good spirits and turned out to be one hell of a good bartender. He made sure there weren't any empty glasses in front of anyone for longer than a few seconds, remembered what all 15 people were drinking, never messed up an order and cracked jokes to keep everybody entertained.

After he went back to the bar, I asked everybody at the table if he mentioned how he got so messed up. He hadn't and nobody had asked. A few jokes were quietly made: somebody said something like, "I'm sure he'll say, 'You should see the other guy'". Somebody else said he looked like the loser of a first round qualifying fight for Ultimate Fighting Championship. I, however, was concerned. I noticed his hands. There were no bruises or marks on his knuckles indicative of a two-sided fight. The cut on his cheek was far too severe to be from just any old punch to the face. Somebody wailed on this kid, hard, with purpose.

As the evening rolled on and the place thinned out, the bartender spent more and more time hanging around our area and participating in our increasingly silly alcohol-fueled conversations, story tellings, and raunchy jokes. He obviously felt comfortable with our group and seemed to be genuinely enjoying the party.

So one of the women at our table finally says, "I hope I'm not out of line but I really want to know what happened to you". The look on his face changed a little. If you were paying attention, you could see a mix of pain, anger, and shame that lasted only for a second. He stated very matter of factly, "Oh, I was at ---- Pub the night before last with my roommate. Some asshole was giving us a hard time from the minute we walked in. We moved to the other end of the bar and he followed us getting more and more belligerent by the minute trying to set us off. I was trying to get the bartender's attention when the asshole who followed us told us we weren't welcome in "his bar". I snapped and finally told him if he had a problem with us being there, we should step outside and solve it. He agreed and pointed to the back door that opens into the alley. My roommate isn't exactly the fighting type and wanted to leave right then and there. I should have listened to him. Instead, I followed the guy out there and as soon as I walked out the door, somebody sucker punched me from behind. He had three of his buddies waiting in the alley and they beat the crap out of me. After I hit the ground, one of them curb stomped me and split my cheek open. When I woke up I was lying in the snow bank and was covered in piss. The motherfuckers dumped me in a snow bank and pissed all over me. They chased my roommate out the front door and two blocks down the street. They wouldn't let him come back to check on me or into the parking lot to get our car. I ended up walking a few blocks to meet him and we called a cab to take us to the hospital".

Everybody at our table went completely silent. The woman that asked him what happened started to cry. It all came together in my head. His moussed-up hairstyle, satin shirt, and jewelry were so atypical for this part of redneck Maine, his mannerisms, his "wink wink" references to the other bartender as his roommate, the sexually ambiguous stories & jokes he told during the night. It was suddenly obvious he was gay and walked into the wrong bar with his partner. This was a hate crime.

Somebody else asked him if he reported it to the cops. He said no. Aside from us, he hadn't told anybody (though the hospital pressed him hard for answers) and he was pretty sure one of the guys that jumped him WAS one of the local cops (this would not be surprising at all given what I know about the local gestapo and where some of them like to hang out when off duty). Based on his past experiences, he had no faith in cops and believed bringing them into the situation would only make things worse. "Besides", he said, "I knew what kind of bar it was when we went there. That's WHY we went there; because shit heads like that say we can't. I'm sick and fucking tired of them. I'm tired of having to stay out of their way. I'm tired of people like that putting me down while propping themselves up on some fake pedestal of righteousness. Don't tell him (pointing to his roommate at the other end of the bar), but when I heal up, I'm going back to settle the fucking score".

As an aside here, I walked into that bar when I first moved to the area six years ago and was completely ignored by the bartender for about ten minutes. When I finally called him over, he said I wasn't welcome and told me to leave. I did. Months later I learned from the locals that the crowd that hangins out there doesn't like anyone outside their little circle of ignorant rednecks and especially hates anyone who looks like "a fucking desk jockey, god-damned college kid, or any other kind of fag" as it was put to me. For six years I was content to just pretend the place didn't exist. Let them have their crappy little bar. Let them sit there and wallow in their own ignorance. At least that place keeps them out of the rest of society. But last night I felt compelled to give this young guy my business card and asked him to call me when he's ready to go back. I didn't even know his name at that point but felt the need to stand up with him in the face of these hate-filled pieces of shit. Four other guys from our group agreed to join us. I expect an interesting evening if I get that phone call from this guy. It's been many years since I've been in a fight but can hold my own against most. I know what he wants to do violates the law. I understand the consequences of helping him out. I also understand the position he's in and how he feels he must deal with it.

I would appreciate any advice anyone can offer in dealing with such a victim. I would prefer he go to the authorities but he is convinced they will not help him but target him in some way. It would be hard to make a case to convince him he's wrong. How do you convince someone who has been beaten to a pulp and pissed upon by scumbags that he has to treat them better than they have treated him?
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porphyrian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-12-07 11:36 AM
Response to Original message
1. I'm the wrong person to ask because I might just help him break some laws. -n/t
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lazyriver Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-12-07 11:49 AM
Response to Reply #1
8. I've never considered doing so before, but hearing his story
and putting myself where I think he is really gives me some idea of the desperation he must feel.
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shireen Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-12-07 12:24 PM
Response to Reply #8
22. "putting myself where I think he is "
there's a word for that: empathy. Something that's practically non-existent among bigots.

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LeftCoast Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-12-07 11:53 AM
Response to Reply #1
9. I'm with you.
I can't post what I'd do. Rest assured I wouldn't rely solely on karmic retribution.
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gilpo Donating Member (601 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-12-07 12:00 PM
Response to Reply #1
13. Like fire-bomb the fucking place....
Just kidding.... agent mike.....
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PDJane Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-12-07 11:37 AM
Response to Original message
2. He is quite right about speaking to the :"authorities"
Once upon a long time ago, when I was young and stupid, I was married to a police officer. It's part of the culture, and it's an ugly part.

I don't know that you CAN say anything to him. Telling him to keep his head down is unlikely to work, although it would certainly be safer for him to do so.

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lazyriver Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-12-07 11:46 AM
Response to Reply #2
5. I don't condemn all cops but I live in a very small town and
know most of them here. A homosexual being beaten up for going int0 this particular bar would be greated by most with "Serves him right. Don't poke the bee hive and you won't get stung".
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Catherine Vincent Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-12-07 11:40 AM
Response to Original message
3. How horrible.
File a report on the establishment. I doubt if that was the first time something like that happened. What pigs!
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lazyriver Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-12-07 11:43 AM
Response to Reply #3
4. I am thinking about that. This place is mentioned in the
police blotter of the local rag from time to time; usually for drunk & disorderly conduct by patrons leaving at closing. I don't know if I could file such a report or if it has to come from the victim. I'll check into it with the town.
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T Wolf Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-12-07 11:48 AM
Response to Original message
6. NEVER go the cops about something like this. They will cover for their own.
Edited on Wed Dec-12-07 11:58 AM by T Wolf
My wife was a guidance counselor at (Catholic) schools to which a large number of Philadelphia cops sent their kids. Though she saw many cases of abuse (physical and sexual) perpetrated on the kids BY their police parent (usually male), she was never successful in getting the police to formally (or informally) investigate a single instance.

The only answer is to personally deal with it.
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Cleita Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-12-07 12:01 PM
Response to Reply #6
14. There are other ways and other agencies to send to
harass the bar owner, the health department, the IRS and others that work independently from the police. They should keep the bar owner busy with inspections and hopefully some repentance as the possibility of losing their license to serve alcohol and do business. Also, the Better Business Bureau might be of help if the bar owner is a member.
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sinkingfeeling Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-12-07 12:32 PM
Response to Reply #14
26. Yes, I filed a complaint against a 'private club' with our state's ABC. I read the ABC's
regulations for private clubs and hit on the requirement that to hold a liquor license, the club had to be a 'good neighbor'. After collecting barrels of beer bottles and trash from the neighbor, video taping numerous 'brawls' and sexual acts in their parking lot, and sound-recording the sheer noise levels, they were declared a public nuisance by the city and shut down!!
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eridani Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-13-07 02:38 AM
Response to Reply #6
49. Agree 100%
A guy down our block in the midwestern town where I grew up was a cop, and he tied his kid to the tree in their front yard every now and then. Nobody ever said a word. The kid had lots of problems relating to authority figures in school, but the last I heard of him he had become a cop as well.
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pearl Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-12-07 11:48 AM
Response to Original message
7. I hate to say it but
The Authorities will compound the situation, especially if one is a cop.
I've done extensive work in this area, having worked with the Chicago Anti Bashing Network
which was created as a response to the Matthew Shephard murder, it is now Gay Liberation Network.

Countless hate crimes by cops with no accountability has been routine these days.

Private support by a gay advocacy group might help.

Feel free to pm me your # and we can talk.
Peace, J
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Cleita Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-12-07 11:55 AM
Response to Original message
10. I would report them to the state Alcohol and Beverage Control
Edited on Wed Dec-12-07 11:58 AM by Cleita
if your state has such a thing. Assault and battery should not be tolerated by any bar owner because in my state it gets them in trouble with the ABC and the possibility of having their license suspended. This isn't good for business. However you do it, go after the owners of the bar legally until they get the picture that beating up on customers by their regular customers isn't and should not be tolerated.

While you are at it, call up the health department, state board of equalization, the IRS and any other agency you can think of that would have reason to send inspectors there if there are complaints of possible irregularities in those areas.
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knitter4democracy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-12-07 12:08 PM
Response to Reply #10
16. That's a very good idea.
Go after their money and power.

I am just sick to my stomach over that. How horrible!
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progressoid Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-12-07 12:21 PM
Response to Reply #10
21. I like that idea. Sort of the Al Capone gambit.
You may not get them for that crime but can get them shut down for something else.

Assuming of course, that the authorities in these agencies actually do their jobs. I've seen some pretty scary places in my youth that should have been closed for LOTS of violations. I can only guess that they knew some of the "right people" or paid off some people to keep their doors open.
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Cleita Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-12-07 12:28 PM
Response to Reply #21
24. Most of these agencies are undermanned so they don't
Edited on Wed Dec-12-07 12:29 PM by Cleita
inspect unless there are complaints. You will see them then and often if their initial inspection reveals a lot of violations and I'm sure an establishment that tolerates this kind of action will have a lot of other violations as well since they believe they are getting away with this because they are a "cop bar" and have some magic protection because of it.

The ABC is operated usually by the state so the "cop bar" isn't protected from them by the local police department. The health department for that matter is another agency to get on your side if you have a beef with an establishment.
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aikoaiko Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-12-07 11:55 AM
Response to Original message
11. The victim needs to file the report.

I wouldn't do it for him. If he wants fight it out with them, then he risks much for that reward.

And he needs a new boyfriend who will watch his six.

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izquierdista Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-12-07 11:56 AM
Response to Original message
12. The Woolworth's lunch counter treatment


This establishment doesn't need a boycott, they need your patronage, along with 50 or 60 or the gayest queens you can find. Once the rednecks know they don't have the numbers on their side (like 4 to 1 in their favor), they will run home with their tails between their legs. As you said, they have their own little anti-social world there and it is time someone (preferably great numbers of people) took them out of it.
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Occulus Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-12-07 03:32 PM
Response to Reply #12
34. That's how our local group of queens handled a homophobic Cracker Barrel
in my area several years ago. They took about fifty people in there and sat and drank coffee all day. They packed the place.

At the time, Cracker Barrel had free refills on coffee- so that was all they ordered, from open to close. The manager was not pleased... but I think he reinstated the guy he fired for being gay.
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izquierdista Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-12-07 03:49 PM
Response to Reply #34
35. Don't stereotype now...
Were they all queens? As I was rereading my post, I didn't want to imply that butch macho bodybuilders, bears, twinks, and cross-dressers should be excluded. But to drink all that coffee.....
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YOY Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-12-07 12:02 PM
Response to Original message
15. That's just screwed up
and if the guy who roughed him up is a cop he need to have his badge removed by force.
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knitter4democracy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-12-07 12:10 PM
Response to Original message
17. Just sick. Doing that is just sick.
I just want to go postal on the predators that did it. What the hell were he and his boyfriend doing to them?! Breathing and drinking never hurt anyone, those assholes.

He better make sure to get followup care, just in case they missed something at the ER. Hell, I'd give him some money to pay for it--he shouldn't have to pay a dime for what happened.
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shireen Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-12-07 12:13 PM
Response to Reply #17
20. if he needs further medical treatment, I'll contribute too. I'm sure other DUers would as well. nt
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knitter4democracy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-12-07 03:02 PM
Response to Reply #20
33. I'm sure we would.
Medical costs can skyrocket quickly. If he needs any help at all, I would hope the OP would let us know.
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Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-12-07 12:10 PM
Response to Original message
18. Deleted message
Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.
 
shireen Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-12-07 12:11 PM
Response to Original message
19. if cops were involved in that beating, they must not get away with it
Maybe you could make some discreet inquiries to find out if there is a hate crimes office at the department. You're more likely to talk to someone sympathetic. You don't have to officially report the crime, just go in to talk to them about the situation and ask if there have been other reports similar to it. Find out if they're trying to do something about it or just don't care.

It would be beneficial to have a public airing of these hate crimes, like a GBLT town hall meeting to publicly address hate crimes, so people like that bartender can speak publicly about what happened to him. Make sure the media is there to cover that story, extend invitations to local politicians and religious leaders (ask them to speak out). There's strength in numbers so if there's a local GBLT activist group, they could organize that town hall meeting ... they could show up with family, friends, and supporters. Encourage everyone you know to attend so the public can see the overwhelming support for GBLTs.

Those assholes who ganged up on the bartender are nothing more than disgusting cowardly bullies. If they get away with it, there will be more of those crimes. I don't know much about confronting bullies peacefully, and hopefully, others in DU will have good ideas. But I imagine public condemnation and ridicule would do wonders! In some communities, convicted child molesters or DUIs have their photos posted on websites. I've even heard of one website that posts photos of bad boyfriends! Would be nice if we had something similar for hate crimes.

If you go back to that bar, take a crowd. Overwhelm the place with people. If you have the time and resources, keep going back in large groups. Don't start any fights, just take control of the place with your business. Make sure a few people come with cameras and camcorders, that way, if fights break out, it can be documented.

Thank you for caring ... our GBLT brothers and sisters need our love and support, and we need to educate people that they're NORMAL!!!

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Triana Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-12-07 01:12 PM
Response to Reply #19
30. I like this idea best (n/t)
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IndyOp Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-12-07 12:25 PM
Response to Original message
23. Do some research to find a group in your area that supports diversity, supports
victims of hate crimes. In my town, we have a local office that organized an event I attended last night in response to local vandals pulling letters of the word "Jewish" off of the Chabad student center on campus. A few years ago hate literature directed at GLBTQ persons was deposited in yards around the city and the same office responded.

A candlelight vigil held in the city might be a good way to raise local consciousness -- it would probably get some news coverage and your friend would not have to mention the particular bar or might not even need to be in the spotlight so he would not be in danger of reprisals. The event could be held in honor of diversity as a response to a local gay man having been savagely beaten. Such an event could be used to hold diversity sensitivity training in the local police force -- without pointing fingers at any individuals the message could be delivered that such crimes are very, very serious.
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GreenPartyVoter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-12-07 12:50 PM
Response to Reply #23
27. A lot of the college campuses have resources like these. I would get in touch with one of them and
see what they suggest.
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BanzaiBonnie Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-12-07 12:29 PM
Response to Original message
25. This just makes me so sad
While this is horrendous, anger will only add fuel to the ugliness. Why further the situation with further intent of violence?

What happened is so sick and wrong. But concentrating energy toward the problem seems it would add fuel to the problem.


What might a solution set for this look like? I don't have any answers.
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GreenPartyVoter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-12-07 12:53 PM
Response to Original message
28. This is awful! Have you tried checking UMaine's website to see if they have
a listing for a group that might be of help here? Even if they only deal with student issues, I bet they would know who to contact in the world at large about something like this.


www.umaine.edu/
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lazyriver Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-12-07 01:11 PM
Response to Original message
29. Thanks to everybody for the ideas.
I'm going to read through them all carefully and stop by the bar to see if the guy who got beaten up is working tonight. If he is, I'll invite him out for a beer sometime so I can try to offer him other options besides more violence. He's a young guy, probably no older than 22 or 23, and I don't know him at all so I don't know if he's even aware there are groups out there offering support to people who have gone through what he has. I am hoping his plan to go back and seek revenge is based on the fact his face is still so sore and the image in the mirror is a fresh reminder. Perhaps, as he cools off, he will be receptive to the idea of organizing legal opposition to the bar and the attitudes that fester in it. I wasn't the victim and I'm mad enough to risk life and limb for the guilty pleasure of whomping up on some dirt bags. The guy with the stitched up face must feel 100 times that wrath. But as a few DUers who replied pointed out, more violence is probably not going to fix the problem and ultimately, getting the place shut down would be more satisfying.

For the most part, the law abiding people in this area are very decent folks but they tend to stay out of the affairs of others. However, I believe that if they knew about what happened and is happening in their own home town, a stone's throw from where they shop, dine, and go to church, they would be compelled to do something about it.

I don't know what kinds of local support groups are in this area, but am going to find out. I'm sure such organizations would be willing to gather up a large group equipped with cameras to go in and take the place over. Contacting the agency that is responsible for oversight of alcohol related businesses is a good one. A liquor license is a valuable commoditiy in this area. The threat of losing it could be a powerful tool in applying pressure to the establishments owner.



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shireen Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-12-07 02:14 PM
Response to Reply #29
31. take a printout of this thread to him
tell him we care about him, and wish him a quick and speedy recovery. :grouphug:
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lazyriver Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-12-07 02:27 PM
Response to Reply #31
32. I certainly will.
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kas125 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-12-07 05:57 PM
Response to Reply #32
36. then please add some good wishes from me, too
The things that people do to each other make me so sad sometimes. Please tell the young man that lots of us are sending good thoughts his way. And thank you for caring about a stranger; the world needs more people like you.
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Stephanie Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-12-07 06:09 PM
Response to Original message
37. Lambda Legal Defense >
It might be worth a call to see what Lambda lawyers suggest.




http://www.lambdalegal.org/help/


Help Desk

How the Help Desk Works

Lambda’s Legal Help Desk staff respond directly to members of our communit(ies) who are seeking legal information and assistance with discrimination related to sexual orientation, gender identity and expression, and HIV status. To the extent that our resources and priorities allow, Lambda Legal takes on legal representation of callers whose situations present impact litigation issues; for many others, Lambda Legal provides leads to other organizations and practical information that might help them address their problems. We also provide a list of suggested questions to ask a prospective attorney. If you would like more information or to request assistance, please call the office which serves your state. Please note that help desk hours are subject to change.

The Help Desk frequently receives inquiries from people with similar questions, or who are facing similar issues, so you may wish to check our list of Commonly Requested Resources and Publications before contacting the Help Desk to see if you can find the information you need.

National Headquarters

Contact this office if you live in Connecticut, Delaware, Maine, Maryland, Massachusetts, New Hampshire, New Jersey, New York, Pennsylvania, Rhode Island, Vermont or Washington, D.C..


National Headquarters accepts Legal Help Desk calls at any time during regular business hours and also Monday evenings from 5:30 p.m. to 8 p.m. Call 212-809-8585 and ask for the Legal Help Desk. If Help Desk staff are busy helping other callers, your call will be routed to the Legal Help Desk voicemail. Please leave the following information: name, state, contact info, best time to reach you, and a brief message outlining your legal inquiry. A Help Desk staff person will return your call within one business day.



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BurningDog Donating Member (184 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-12-07 07:35 PM
Response to Original message
38. 1) Don't go into enemy territory looking for a fight.
2) don't post about on a public forum if you plan to break Rule #1.

He broke rule #1 and paid the price for it. If you lose, you're going to lose hard. No matter how many friends you bring, they'll have more a phone call's length away. Going somewhere that you're not wanted and then offering to "fight it out" to settle things is never a good move.

If you 'win', you'll almost assuredly all be facing felony charges.

Those are the best case scenarios, everything could go even worse if somehow a weapon gets involved.
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readmoreoften Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-12-07 08:08 PM
Response to Reply #38
43. Gosh, I guess I shouldn't go anywhere. Any advice for me? People yell DYKE at my home.
Neighborhood guys ask if they can join my girlfriend and I for sex. She got gay-bashed, but that was in agricultural school where she had a scholarship. True, it was the turf of homophobes, so eventually she gave up her scholarship and left. Then she went to Ireland. She got gaybashed there by a gang of teenagers in the street. But, then again, Dublin was pretty conservative in 2003. But she was in an exchange program there. Still, one shouldn't put opportunity in front of safety. Now she's working a job as a carpet cleaner. It was a risk to apply. Those blue-collar jobs are full of homophobes and you have to go out on assignments with them alone. I'm glad she didn't get raped or beaten.

My problem is, my neighbors kids have yelled DYKE at us when we're at home. Should we just stay inside and lock the doors? Or should we just accept the fact that they might break in here too. I suppose we could move to the Castro or Christoper St., but gosh, rent there is $3000 a month and up, and golly, we just can't afford it.

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NMMNG Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-12-07 08:57 PM
Response to Reply #43
44. Yes, dear, stay in your ghetto
And even though you're still not truly safe there, just accept that it's your own fault for having the audacity to choose the Homosexual Lifestyle. :sarcasm:
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BurningDog Donating Member (184 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-12-07 11:02 PM
Response to Reply #43
47. Thats completely different than seeking out trouble.
the OP states that the guy who took the beating went to the bar with a mission of proving a point to the people who he knew didn't want him there, and then escalated the situation by offering to 'fight it out'. I don't know what he expected to happen at that point, a one-on-one 'put up your dukes' match out in the alley that ends in a hand-shake and a "y'know, I guess you queers aren't all bad... lets go have a drink"?

As far as advice for you... go about your life without living in fear, use whatever legal means available to stop the harassment, and if you are physically threatened with imminent bodily harm, be prepared to defend yourself with overwhelming force... http://www.pinkpistols.org is a good place to start.
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readmoreoften Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-13-07 06:26 AM
Response to Reply #47
50. No. Can't go the legal route for harrassment. And Pink Pistols is too far away.
But luckily, I have lotsa other people to shoot with.

Can't go the legal route for harrassment because they're gang kids in high school (I live in a Blood neighborhood). They're my neighbors' kids. I live in a latino neighborhood where a lot of folks are illegals and there is no way I'm going to invite cops here. Also, these kids are probably just nervous about us. My vibe is that they're trying to be tough to one another. I'd never risk sending one of these kids into the system. For all their posturing, this neighborhood is pretty tight knit and low crime. I also don't think the cops would do a damn thing. My goal is to get them to see us as a part of the community by being a good neighbor. It's a risk, but it's better than the alternative.



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lazyriver Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-13-07 08:57 AM
Response to Reply #47
52. As I mentioned in my reply to your other post, I visited the
guy who got beat up last night at the bar & restaurant where he works. I printed out this thread as it stood at around 4:45 yesterday evening and hoped to talk with him about options other than revenge and more violence. I'm going to try to post a more detailed account of our discussion later but the short of it is he told me to stay the hell out of his life. He said he didn't want my help, didn't ask for it, and never should have said anything to me and my friends about what happened. "I don't want a bunch of people singing koom bye yah in my name and I don't need any further attention brought on me over this. Leave me the hell alone".

I mention this as a reply to this post because he made it clear he went in there looking for a fight and this is not the first time he's done something similar. Upon further reflection, I've come to the conclusion I can't support that kind of action even though I think I understand, at least on some level, the feelings of anger and desperation that drove him to do it. I have a clearer picture of this guy now and it is a little disturbing. He is so full of anger, he risked the safety of his partner who really didn't know of the plan or what kind of bar that was to try to prove his point. To me, that crosses a line that shouldn't be crossed.

I still want to help him and perhaps even more importantly, other potential victims of hate and ignorance, but I will need to do so in an indirect way that doesn't involve him. There were many good suggestions in this thread and names of organizations I didn't know existed. At least one positive thing has come out of this whole experience. However small it might be in the big picture, there is one more heterosexual male on this planet who cannot walk through life with blinders on anymore. I've seen what hate and bigotry are capable of doing. I've also felt some of the anger of the victims(and believe me, I know it's only a tiny fraction)to the point where I thought I was ready to act out in a very stupid way. I can't go back to the blissful ignorance of thinking this kind of thing only happens somewhere else, and even then only rarely. I am compelled to get involved and will do so in a constructive way.



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lazyriver Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-13-07 08:18 AM
Response to Reply #38
51. Wise words. After further thought I arrived at the same conclusion.
I've lived my life so far pretty much avoiding stupid mistakes. I'll be posting a follow up a little later this morning summing up my visit yesterday evening to the guy who got beat up. The result was not what I expected.
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rockymountaindem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-12-07 07:40 PM
Response to Original message
39. I didn't know it was possible to curb stomp someone without killing them
That said, you might try calling your Congressperson or Senator. Sometimes they can get the ball rolling in ways that might surprise you. It's worth a shot.
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readmoreoften Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-12-07 07:47 PM
Response to Reply #39
40. you can do it knock out teeth. /nt
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dsc Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-12-07 07:50 PM
Response to Original message
41. Reading this stuff makes my blood boil
I wonder if I will ever live to see the day this doesn't happen.
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readmoreoften Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-12-07 08:00 PM
Response to Original message
42. I would try to do something in general and not focus your energy on this one guy.
Be vocal against gay bashing. Tell other people who might be skeptical, that it's real, because many people don't believe us. If you have friends in law enforcement, tell them what you saw and tell them that it is unacceptable. Contact LGBT organizations and ask them how you can help.

For this fellow in particular:

He'll probably just get beat up a second time if he returns, but some people want personal revenge against an attacker which makes sense; the system is more likely to re-violate than fight for you. If you want to fight, though, you have to learn to fight. If you have a little money, you might buy the guy some jiu-jitsu lessons. (Find out if the teacher is a homophobe himself, though, first.)

There's an organization of skilled street fighters who fight racists and homophobes in the street. There is no Maine chapter, but these folks are known to travel. They will go to the bar and they will confront the people who did this and demand an explanation. And if they don't get one, they DEFINITELY know how to fight.

http://www.antiracistaction.us
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JustAnotherGen Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-12-07 09:00 PM
Response to Original message
45. I really
like the idea of a sit in myself. A nice peaceful group of 50 or 60 progressive sitting people walking into that bar with them would send one hell of a message. And you keep going back. And do it again, and again.
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NMMNG Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-12-07 09:24 PM
Response to Original message
46. Thank you for wanting to help
:hi:

We can use all of the allies we can get, as can the victim, I'm sure.

My recommendation is that you avoid any direct confrontations with the bigots, particularly in the form of physical brawls. If you can convince the victim to file charges it might help but don't press him too hard. Let him do, ultimately, as he wishes.

Lambda Legal can help provide some backup should the victim want to press charges, particularly if the local law-enforcement wish to "bury the case".

And if you want to become more active as an advocate for LGBT rights in general PFLAG is a good place to start.
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madeline_con Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-12-07 11:07 PM
Response to Original message
48. I'd want to retaliate in kind by "visiting" the bar with friends. n/t
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