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Th1onein Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-12-07 09:02 AM
Original message
Can Baking Soda Curb Global Warming?
Can baking soda curb global warming?
A start-up in Texas says it can turn the carbon dioxide emitted by power plants into baking soda.

By Michael Kanellos
Staff Writer, CNET News.com

Published: November 27, 2007, 4:00 AM PST

Green tech powers forward

Some scientists have proposed compressing carbon dioxide and sticking it in underground caves as a way to cut down on greenhouse gases. Joe David Jones wants to make baking soda out of it.

Jones, the founder and CEO of Skyonic, has come up with an industrial process called SkyMine that captures 90 percent of the carbon dioxide coming out of smoke stacks and mixes it with sodium hydroxide to make sodium bicarbonate, or baking soda. The energy required for the reaction to turn the chemicals into baking soda comes from the waste heat from the factory.

"It is cleaner than food-grade (baking soda)," he said.

The system also removes 97 percent of the heavy metals, as well as most of the sulfur and nitrogen compounds, Jones said.

http://www.news.com/Can-baking-soda-curb-global-warming/2100-13838_3-6220127.html
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HereSince1628 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-12-07 09:15 AM
Response to Original message
1. Is there a green use for the chlorine generated while making the NaOH
this process requires?

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ProdigalJunkMail Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-12-07 09:29 AM
Response to Reply #1
7. my chemistry schoolin' is about 25 years gone by but
Edited on Wed Dec-12-07 09:32 AM by ProdigalJunkMail
I see CO2 and NaOH in this equation...where is the Chlorine coming from? I must be missing something...

Please note, there is no sarcasm smiley attached...I really don't know this process...and don't see where Chlorine enters the pic...isn't this right?

CO2+NaOH ==> NaHCO3

sP

OnEdit...sorry...missed the question...where is the Chlorine in making NaOH??? Sorry...
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muriel_volestrangler Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-12-07 09:46 AM
Response to Reply #7
8. I think it must mean the NaOH is produced from sodium chloride
From the article:

"On top of that, the byproducts of the different reactions--chlorine, baking soda, hydrogen (a byproduct from making the sodium hydroxide that gets mixed with the carbon dioxide), and chlorine--can be sold to industrial users."

Over 95% of the capacity to produce chlorine and essentially 100% of the capacity to produce caustic soda (sodium hydroxide, NaOH) are based on the electrolysis of brine. In this process a sodium chloride (NaCl, salt) solution (brine) is electrolytically decomposed to elemental chlorine (in the anode compartment), and sodium hydroxide solution and elemental hydrogen (in the cathode compartment). A chemical facility which co-produces caustic soda and chlorine is typically referred to as a chlor-alkali (C/A) facility.

The overall reaction for the electrolytic production of caustic soda and chlorine is:



http://www.dow.com/causticsoda/prod/process.htm


It's a good question - for every 2 carbon dioxide molecules removed from the smokestack, you get a molecule of chlorine. That's a lot of chlorine to dispose of, if you want to use this process on a large scale.
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ProdigalJunkMail Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-12-07 09:48 AM
Response to Reply #8
9. yeah...i finally figured that out in the end
i missed the question...normal for me this early in the morning :-) but I am sure we need lots of chlorine too...maybe we can make table salt...wait...that kind of takes us in a bit of a loop :-)

sP
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izquierdista Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-12-07 10:15 AM
Response to Reply #8
11. Water purification
Something like 2/3 of the world's population have only untreated water for their daily needs. What is standard in the United States, to treat water with chlorine and then use it to fill swimming pools, water lawns, wash cars, clothes and anything else you can hose down, is a luxury the rest of the world would like to be able to do for just their drinking water.
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muriel_volestrangler Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-12-07 10:46 AM
Response to Reply #11
13. But that's still not much compared with the CO2 production
From this industry pamphlet, 2002 world chlorine production was 42 million tonnes, of which 6% was used for purifying water, or 2.5 million tonnes. The atomic weight of a chlorine molecules is about 71, and of 2 carbon dioxide molecules 88, so that 2.5 million tonnes of chlorine would be the by-product of eliminating 3.1 million tonnes of CO2. Even if that was multiplied by 10 to extend it to the whole world, and maybe replacing some other water treatments, that's 31 million tonnes of CO2 per year. World carbon dioxide emissions were about 25 billion tonnes for that year - about 800 times as much.
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izquierdista Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-12-07 11:44 AM
Response to Reply #13
14. 25 billion tons!!
That's a LOT of vinyl siding!
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HereSince1628 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-12-07 08:57 PM
Response to Reply #7
29. The most common industrial methods of making NaOH use NaCL
as the source of the sodium.

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BlueJazz Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-12-07 09:17 AM
Response to Original message
2. This sounds pretty cool. It does (seems to me) , that with all the technology available...
..in this modern world, that something as important as cleaning smoke-stacks should have been a top priority for a long time.

I simply don't think that enough money is being spent in solving the problem.
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dysfunctional press Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-12-07 09:19 AM
Response to Reply #2
4. the money is being spent elsewhere...
iraq, for instance.
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BlueJazz Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-12-07 05:03 PM
Response to Reply #4
26. Yep...Amen to That ! N/T
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KewlKat Donating Member (867 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-12-07 09:22 AM
Response to Reply #2
5. I read recently that there are many energy patents
that have been classified by our government as posing a threat to "national security". Others have been threatened not to pursue their ideas. Still others fear coming forward with ideas/suggestions. The world is run by corporations, who many do not believe in Global Warming or it's not in their financial interest for new and innovative choices. I don't know how we can get off of fossile fuel, away from polution, etc, if we are hindered every step of the way by big business and government.
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poverlay Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-12-07 09:17 AM
Response to Original message
3. Perfect! I'm sure it works. Baking soda rocks! Arm and Hammer saves the world! nt
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blm Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-12-07 02:22 PM
Response to Reply #3
21. I'm a fan of the A&H, too.
.
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Toots Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-12-07 09:25 AM
Response to Original message
6. When I was a child we would get little submarines or divers in cereal boxes
and put baking soda in them to make them dive and surface. They were fun toys..
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TCJ70 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-12-07 09:49 AM
Response to Reply #6
10. I think we need to get the union for...
...tiny submarines (or sumbarines as I used to call them) and tiny divers in on this.
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zorahopkins Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-12-07 10:17 AM
Response to Original message
12. You Could Use It To Clean Up The Stink
Everyone knows that baking soda will clean up smells and foul odors.

You could use all that Baking Soda to clean up the stink created by Bush, Cheney, Rice, and all the other members of the current regime.

There might never be enough baking soda to clean up that much stink, though.

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havocmom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-12-07 11:52 AM
Response to Original message
15. Biscuits and Apple Bread!
Baking soda is good for more than just cleaning ;)

This is interesting news. Wonder how much time it will get in MSM.
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eppur_se_muova Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-12-07 02:01 PM
Response to Original message
16. No. This has been discussed in E/E before; the first response pinpoints the problem. nt
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Hydra Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-12-07 02:01 PM
Response to Original message
17. Expect this to get buried
"Not Economical" is often thrown around, despite the truth of it.
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morningglory Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-12-07 02:08 PM
Response to Original message
18. Acid rain solution? Acid killing the oceans? World's biggest science project!! n/t
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NickB79 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-12-07 02:13 PM
Response to Original message
19. We can't synthesize even 1% of the baking soda required to capture our CO2 release
Just to put it in perspective, every year we release BILLIONS of tons of CO2 into the atmosphere. This reaction requires one molecule of baking soda to bind with one molecule of CO2, so we need equal amounts of baking soda to CO2.

As of 2001, we produced 100,000 tons of sodium bicarbonate. If we increased baking soda production 10-fold, we would still only be producing enough to remove 0.01% of global CO2 emissions.
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poverlay Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-12-07 03:16 PM
Response to Reply #19
22. They're not talking about neutralizing it with baking soda, they're talking about neutralizing it by
turning it into baking soda! Then we would have plenty for cleaning and baking....
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slowry Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-12-07 02:17 PM
Response to Original message
20. Excellent. Baking Soda for Global Warming, and Marmite for an alien invasion.
Is there anything foodstuffs can't do?
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ms liberty Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-12-07 08:54 PM
Response to Reply #20
28. A few things, but those can be taken care of with WD40...n/t
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piedmont Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-12-07 03:18 PM
Response to Original message
23. As was said upthread, that would generate a LOT of chlorine.
And chlorine is a much worse pollutant than CO2.
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Touchdown Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-12-07 03:19 PM
Response to Original message
24. Baking Soda. Is there anything they can't do?
I just can't help myself.:D
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Forkboy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-12-07 04:12 PM
Response to Original message
25. No, but it would keep it fresh smelling for months.
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Nikki Stone1 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-12-07 05:14 PM
Response to Original message
27. Is this what is called a "scrubber"?
I had a friend years ago who was working on the idea of taking industrial waste of various sorts, combining it with other chemicals, and making harmless bi-products out of it. He used to call the chemicals or biological agents "scrubbers".
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Canuckistanian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-12-07 09:11 PM
Response to Original message
30. If you could put such a device in car engines, you might have something
That fact is, internal combustion engines (not smokestacks) are the major emitters of CO2.
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