Do you support H.R. 847, recognizing the importance of Christmas and the Christian faith?

[RiverStone]

Text of legislation:


Recognizing the importance of Christmas and the Christian faith.

Whereas Christmas, a holiday of great significance to Americans and many other cultures and nationalities, is celebrated annually by Christians throughout the United States and the world;

Whereas there are approximately 225,000,000 Christians in the United States, making Christianity the religion of over three-fourths of the American population;

Whereas there are approximately 2,000,000,000 Christians throughout the world, making Christianity the largest religion in the world and the religion of about one-third of the world population;

Whereas Christians identify themselves as those who believe in the salvation from sin offered to them through the sacrifice of their savior, Jesus Christ, the Son of God, and who, out of gratitude for the gift of salvation, commit themselves to living their lives in accordance with the teachings of the Holy Bible;

Whereas Christians and Christianity have contributed greatly to the development of western civilization;

Whereas the United States, being founded as a constitutional republic in the traditions of western civilization, finds much in its history that points observers back to its roots in Christianity;

Whereas on December 25 of each calendar year, American Christians observe Christmas, the holiday celebrating the birth of their savior, Jesus Christ;

Whereas for Christians, Christmas is celebrated as a recognition of God's redemption, mercy, and Grace; and

Whereas many Christians and non-Christians throughout the United States and the rest of the world, celebrate Christmas as a time to serve others: Now, therefore be it

Resolved, That the House of Representatives--

(1) recognizes the Christian faith as one of the great religions of the world;

(2) expresses continued support for Christians in the United States and worldwide;

(3) acknowledges the international religious and historical importance of Christmas and the Christian faith;

(4) acknowledges and supports the role played by Christians and Christianity in the founding of the United States and in the formation of the western civilization;

(5) rejects bigotry and persecution directed against Christians, both in the United States and worldwide; and

(6) expresses its deepest respect to American Christians and Christians throughout the world.


http://thomas.loc.gov/

Final roll call:

http://clerk.house.gov/evs/2007/roll1143.xml

****Choices below reflect the same ones the Reps. had in The House today...




On Edit: Go to Thomas (home) per text link above and type Christmas into "Search Bill Text" - you will find it there.

[flvegan]

1. They lost me when they removed the "Kwanzaa Amendment"

[Captain Hilts]

17. Wasn't Kwanzaa made up by a Georgetown U professor? nt

[sniffa]

54. Cal State

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ron_Karenga#Career

but usually, it's claimed by some whites that it was created by a deviant criminal while behind bars. haven't heard that in a while.

[Captain Hilts]

63. I'd never heard that one. nt

[The Stranger]

130. Actually, Paul of Tarsus was behind bars when he created most Chrstian doctrine.

[Telly Savalas]

30. They didn't have the votes.

[Pastiche423]

2. So far, this poll is making me feel a little better

[Solon]

3. NAY, I respect the 1st Amendment. n/t

[tekisui]

4. I don't recognize the need for a vote.

How about a vote on torture, renditions, unconstitutional detentions and spying?

And illegal occupations.

[Quantess]

49. What's the connection?

Edit: I get it now. I had to read it twice.

[Nikki Stone1]

74. Me, neither. Is Christianity dying?

That's the only reason you'd need a weird government proclamation propping it up.

[mikelgb]

5. Present

but I don't care really

waste of time

but I would be there

[Breeze54]

6. What a fuckin' waste of time and taxpayers money!!

Get on with the stuff that matters, asshats!!

Gheesh!! :banghead:

What the hell ARE they being paid for anyway?

We ought to dock their pay for goofing off!! :grr:

[kath]

113. What a total freaking goddam waste of time.

Asshats.

[mmonk]

7. Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise

thereof.

[Guaranteed]

9. Yeah, I thought they made it pretty clear.

The resolution, whatever its effect, looks pretty blatantly unconstitutional.

[onenote]

85. the inevitable follow up to the Ramadan resolution passed in October

Or the resolution passed urging states to recognize American Jewish History Month.

Just sayin...

[SharkSquid]

56. None of which is done here.

I am not saying I would vote for it.

But this is a resolution, not law.

No religion is established ("Christianity" has been around for some time, just in case you forgot)

No free exercise is being restricted by this resolution, as I can see, correct me if I am wrong.

[TrogL]

66. So where's the resolution for Pastafarianism?

[hfojvt]

70. I wonder if these guys knew what that meant?

http://www.churchstatelaw.com/historicalmaterials/8_6_2_1.asp

"Whereas it is the duty of all nations to acknowledge the providence of Almighty God, to obey His will, to be grateful for His benefits, and humbly to implore His protection and favor; and



Whereas both Houses of Congress have, by their joint committee, requested me to recommend to the people of the United States a day of public thanksgiving and prayer, to be observed by acknowledging with grateful hearts the many and signal favors of Almighty God, especially by affording them an opportunity peaceably to establish a form of government for their safety and happiness:"



Now, therefore, I do recommend and assign Thursday, the 26th day of November next, to be devoted by the people of these States to the service of that great and glorious Being who is the beneficent author of all the good that was, that is, or that will be; that we may then all unite in rendering unto Him our sincere and humble thanks for His kind care and protection of the people of this country previous to their becoming a nation; for the signal and manifold mercies and the favorable interpositions of His providence in the course and conclusion of the late war; for the great degree of tranquillity, union, and plenty which we have since enjoyed; for the peaceable and rational manner in which we have been enabled to establish constitutions of government for our safety and happiness, and particularly the national one now lately instituted; for the civil and religious liberty with which we are blessed, and the means we have of acquiring and diffusing useful knowledge; and, in general, for all the great and various favors which He has been pleased to confer upon us.



And also that we may then unite in most humbly offering our prayers and supplications to the great Lord and Ruler of Nations, and beseech Him to pardon our national and other transgressions; to enable us all, whether in public or private stations, to perform our several and relative duties properly and punctually; to render our National Government a blessing to all the people by constantly being a Government of wise, just, and constitutional laws, discreetly and faithfully executed and obeyed; to protect and guide all sovereigns and nations (especially such as have shown kindness to us), and to bless them with good governments, peace, and concord; to promote the knowledge and practice of true religion and virtue, and the increase of science among them and us; and, generally, to grant unto all mankind such a degree of temporal prosperity as He alone knows to be best.



Given under my hand, at the city of New York, the 3d day of October, A.D. 1789."

http://www.churchstatelaw.com/historicalmaterials/8_6_2_5.asp



Go WASHINGTON.

[Selatius]

8. I'm a Deist. I would've voted "present." n/t

[EFerrari]

10. Why is Pelosi's House legislating religion?

:wtf:

[Guaranteed]

12. I don't know. This really is ridiculous.

Earlier I thought the extreme headlines wouldn't pan out, but...yeah, reading it, it basically goes totally against the very first line of the 1st Amendment.

[EFerrari]

15. I don't find it ridiculous any more. It's frightening, flat out,

for them to be placating fascists.

[SharkSquid]

57. How does it go against the 1st Amendment.

[onenote]

86. It doesn't,

I don't particularly like it (just as I didn't particularly like the recognition of Ramadan resolution passed in October), but it falls far short of a constitutional violation.

[PDJane]

11. No. Absolutely NO.

That's totally against the non-establishment clause. It's against everything that the US previously stood for. And it makes a mockery of the US refusing to negotiate with Iran because they have a religious government. Oh, wait, support of Israel already did that.

(many various and sundry expletives deleted, not all of them in English)

[TheFarseer]

13. why do these people constantly need validation?

My Christian faith is very important to me and I can't see why they insist that praise be heaped upon them. I don't need the government to tell me that Jesus is great.

[RiverStone]

16. as a non-christian, I greatly respect your right to believe...

and practice the faith of your choosing --- unequivocally!

As a Christain TheFarseer, can you fathom why The House would need to vote on something which singles out one faith over all others (for a vote of support)? I'm clueless - and ANGRY. Given their sentiment, all faiths practiced in the USA deserve recognition eh? Though I don't get their logic or sentiment at all!

This vote is both exclusionary and very offensive, IMO.

[TheFarseer]

19. Hey man, I voted NAY

as a Christian, I'm frankly a little embarrassed by this vote. You're right, we're singling out ourselves as better than everybody else. Kind of a new wrinkle on "all men are created equal"

[RiverStone]

29. Thanks...

If you read my question as implying, TheFarseer, that you would vote otherwise - my apologies. I did not mean it that way at all. I simply am trying to grasp why we needed this vote...why so many voted YEA...and why the candidate I had been supporting - Dennis Kucinich - voted in support of it? I valued your perspective on this goofy vote since it was centered on your faith....nothing more.

I'm just baffled by it - in today's America!


peace~:)

[MagickMuffin]

37. Maybe this will help with your question

After Opposing Resolutions On Ramadan And Diwali, Rep. King Introduces Christmas Bill

Rep. Steve King (R-IA) plans to take the House floor today and introduce a bill (HR 847) recognizing the “importance of Christmas and the Christian faith.”

A spokesman for King told ThinkProgress that the bill was introduced in response to previous resolutions recognizing the Muslim celebration of Ramadan and the Hindu Diwali. King, in fact, mirrored his Christmas resolution on the Ramadan one, according to the spokesman:

The Christmas resolution Congressman King has offered is only being offered because there have been two previous resolutions earlier this year in October, one for the Muslim holiday of Ramadan and one for the Hindu holiday of Diwali.

It was actually entirely unprecedented to even consider them for a vote. Religions have not been singled out and honored previously in Congress. But now that this precedent has been set, Congressman King thought it was important to honor Christmas. This is just simply the exact same language used as the Ramadan resolution on Oct 2.

Yet King didn’t even vote for the Ramadan resolution. King instead joined a handful of right-wing lawmakers, including Reps. Virgil Goode (R-VA) and Tom Tancredo (R-CO), who voted “present.” (They didn’t want to explicitly vote “no” because they didn’t want to be seen “as not commending religion in general.”)

Additionally, it’s questionable whether these religion resolutions are truly “unprecedented,” as King’s office claims. In the 109th Congress, the late JoAnn Davis (R-VA) also introduced a resolution recognizing the “the importance of the symbols and traditions of Christmas.” King voted for that bill.

http://thinkprogress.org/

Think Progress has links to this article....

[last_texas_dem]

75. Ahh, it originated with Steve King

One of the biggest pieces of shit in the House (and he certainly has plenty of competition for that distinction.) Seems like a really pointless thing for the U.S. Congress to be wasting time on.

[onenote]

87. the ramadan resolutions date back several years

at least as far back as 2004: H Res 812: "Recognizing the commencement of Ramadan, the Islamic holy month of fasting and spiritual renewal, and commending Muslims in the United States and throughout the world for their faith."

You reap what you sow, I guess.

[NMMNG]

38. They need to be reminded that they're part of the "in group".

And how good/superior/noble/righteous/accepted/holy/etc. they are compared to people who aren't part of their group. The more external reminders they're given (monuments, declarations, affirmations, posters, public prayers, plaques, etc.) the better they feel. Try to take away their external reinforcements and the problems start.

[madeline_con]

110. But THEY seem to think they need the government to tell them

it's o.k. to impose their ideas on everyone else. They want a theocracy in the U.S. Little by little, they mean to acomplish it.

spell edit

[VP505]

14. Is this useless crap

one of the "more important things" to do that some congress critters keep telling us is one of the reasons that impeachment is not happening?

[Bluebear]

18. HELL NAY!

[MedleyMisty]

20. I thought Christians were persecuted and hated and marginalized?

[Iggo]

68. That is one mighty fat margin, yep....(n/t)

.

[Rex]

21. Sorry I'm crazy, not batshit insane.

I could never support irrational people of the fanatical type.

[Pastiche423]

22. Who voted Yea and WHY?

[RiverStone]

25. 372 did including Dennis K - and I'm stunned

I have no clue why - wanna guess?!

[Pastiche423]

26. I meant on your poll

Kucinich is really making it so that I have no one to fall back on.

1st the Ron Paul as VP thingy.

Now, this xmas bullshit.

The last one has hit me harder than the 1st. He talks about saving our Constitution, then votes to break down the wall between church and state?

Way bad move, Dennis.

[Taverner]

78. Dennis K was anti-abortion, voted for the flag burning ammendment,

and wants Ron Paul as VP.

Some progressive!

[Balbus]

104. Me!

And to go point by point of the resolution...

(1) recognizes the Christian faith as one of the great religions of the world;

If not the greatest, it's certainly in the top 3.

(2) expresses continued support for Christians in the United States and worldwide;

Can't find any reason not to support them if need be.

(3) acknowledges the international religious and historical importance of Christmas and the Christian faith;

Duh. Love 'em or hate 'em, you can't deny the historical importance of them rascally Christians and their holiday.

(4) acknowledges and supports the role played by Christians and Christianity in the founding of the United States and in the formation of the western civilization;

Again, duh. And to claim that the founding of the U.S. was not based at least partially on Christianity is just plain ignorance.

(5) rejects bigotry and persecution directed against Christians, both in the United States and worldwide; and

I'm guessing this is the one you have the hardest time with, right? "If you can't make fun of Christians what good are the?"... Well, I can't support your sentiment in that regard. Bigotry is bigotry no matter who it's directed at.

(6) expresses its deepest respect to American Christians and Christians throughout the world.

There's a lot of good American Christians worthy of respect. Nothing wrong with that.


And, no, I'm not a Christian.

[Pastiche423]

112. There's a little something called

Separation of State and Church

Btw, your number 4 is incorrect. This country was NOT founded on religion. Period. Your lack of our country's history is embarrassingly sickening.


The rest is just rot.

[Horse with no Name]

23. Oh for fuck sake

THIS is what they are spending their time doing?
Send every one of those fuckers home and let's start over.

[Rex]

24. THANK YOU!

Eggzactly what I was thinkin! W.T.F.

[Nye Bevan]

27. I am a Christian and I celebrate Christmas and I will just say this...

This is the biggest, stupidest, fucking waste of congressional time ever this side of the flag-burning amendment. With all the stuff they could be spending time on, they think they're going to impress me with this crap? Unbelievable.

[MrSlayer]

28. No. Because neither is important.

We're just fucked as a nation and a species.

[hyphenate]

31. Real christians don't need a document

telling them it's Christmas. This law reeks of Bill O'Reilly.

This clearly violates the first Amendment rights of our founding fathers, that no one should have to kowtow to another's religion. Our nation is made up of as many different religions as there are people. And no wonder we aren't at the top of the heap anymore, when far more secular nations now are superior to our own in many, many ways. The religious right has fucking owned the USA for too long, and we're seeing the end result in our current government.

[LittleClarkie]

32. Rather like putting up a vote about flag burning isn't it

A bogus vote meant to embarrass the nays. I'm glad to see Gwen Moore of Wisconsin didn't fall for it.

[burrowowl]

33. Isn't this more important?

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=389x2446278

[RiverStone]

34. One does not discount the other...

Ummmm, holding Shrub and Shooter accountable for high crimes or protesting a vote which might as well (symbolically) toss the very principals our constitution were founded upon into the garbage.

They are both important and deeply rooted in what defines who we are as a country.

How ironic, that this crazy and bigoted Christmas vote happens; whereas we can't even get an impeachment debate for simply entering articles of impeachment on the House floor at all?!

How can one happen so fast, and the other never happen at all?

[booley]

35. Did we run out of ACTUAL problems to worry about?

did we get Universal health care and I not notice?

Did those people who had their homes forclosed on get them back?

Did the iraq occupation end?

No? Then why are people wasting time talking about Christmas as if it's still has anything to do with Jesus Christ?

It's a Pagan celebration stolen by the Church and now it's just a secular holiday to spur retail sales.

[RedCappedBandit]

36. This country is run by..

sheep and morAns

[timtom]

39. Absolutely not!

(I voted no, in other words.)

I do, in fact, believe in separation of church and state.

[Nailzberg]

40. Whereas.. office Christmas parties lead to spiked eggnog an banging your assistant

Whereas the America economy depends heavily on the buying of toys, electronics, and crappy sweaters for a successful fourth quarter.

Why don't they just talk about the REAL meaning of Christmas.

[Mr_Jefferson_24]

41. K & R. Nay -- There's been some very thoughful...

...music video touching on the related question of what Santa Clause has to do with Jesus:

http://youtube.com/watch?v=40qTXlNJj9s

[Swamp Rat]

42. I love Sarah Silverman

:loveya:

Here's a classic:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XSH9ryRzHQ4&feature=PlayList&p=681E815ED8FF02B2&index=66

[Mr_Jefferson_24]

44. She's great -- and that Cheech & Chong is a classic...

...I miss those guys.

[Hippo_Tron]

43. Not Voting

My time would be better spent taking a nap during this vote.

[SIMPLYB1980]

53. Right with ya.

[donheld]

45. Anyone who vote yes on this is Un-American

Has our constitution lost it's place in 'Merica?

[Quantess]

46. Christmas Season already lasts 2 full months of the year.

So it isn't as though people need to be reminded.

This is just an attempt to shove Christian religion down everyone's throats. As a non religious person, this is equally appreciated as legislation to encourage Ramadan would be, to me.

Such arrogance.

[B Calm]

47. Did someone on FOX NOISE channel help introduce H.R. 847?

[SheWhoMustBeObeyed]

48. My question is more basic:

Why is House leadership allowing Republican-sponsored bills like this to get to the floor?

Am I mis-remembering or did the GOP-controlled House allow no Dem-sponsored bills to come to vote?

Why is the leadership not protecting Dems from stupid set-up jobs like this? The kind that let GOP candidates say, "My opponent voted against the Christian faith!"

This bill was introduced by crazy bushlicker Steve King and sponsored by several dozen other GOP morons, one of whom didn't even bother to vote (Jeff Miller-FL). But there was one Dem sponsor: McIntyre-NC. (Checked out your voting record, Mike. Are you sure you're a Dem?)

My rep gave the right response to this nonsense: she voted Present, which means "yes I heard you, now can we move on to something else?"

[Quantess]

50. Yes. It's really stupid and unfortunate.

Why doesn't congress pay attention to the constitution?

[blondeatlast]

62. Exactly--and only 10 "presents."

EVERY Rep should have voted "present" with the exception of the obvious bushlicks.

[onenote]

127. would've been brought to floor via discharge petition in a heartbeat

What would've been the point of trying to stop it when it couldn't be stopped. MOreover, the die was cast when, last month, the House voted a resolution regarding Ramadan. Having let that vote go through (and it was introduced by some of the most progressive members of the House), blocking this one simply was not a realistic option.

[cascadiance]

51. So THIS is the important legislation that pursuing impeachment would get in the way of?

Hmm... Why does that sound so ridiculous! Pelosi, stop the BS and get on with fixing our country or we will fix YOU in the process of fixing it later!

[BleedingHeartPatriot]

52. Call your rep about this and the WiFi Bill, Here's the toll free number...

1-877 851-6437
1-800 828-0498

Here's info on the WiFi bill

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=389x2452669

And, the roll call:

http://clerk.house.gov/evs/2007/roll1131.xml

MKJ

[TechBear_Seattle]

55. Not just no but HELL, NO

Christmas was pagan long, long before those parvenus ever existed.

KEEP THE SOL IN SOLSTICE!

[SharkSquid]

58. With respect to Magick Muffin

I present this... In case anyone missed it the first time.

After Opposing Resolutions On Ramadan And Diwali, Rep. King Introduces Christmas Bill

Rep. Steve King (R-IA) plans to take the House floor today and introduce a bill (HR 847) recognizing the “importance of Christmas and the Christian faith.”

A spokesman for King told ThinkProgress that the bill was introduced in response to previous resolutions recognizing the Muslim celebration of Ramadan and the Hindu Diwali. King, in fact, mirrored his Christmas resolution on the Ramadan one, according to the spokesman:

The Christmas resolution Congressman King has offered is only being offered because there have been two previous resolutions earlier this year in October, one for the Muslim holiday of Ramadan and one for the Hindu holiday of Diwali.

It was actually entirely unprecedented to even consider them for a vote. Religions have not been singled out and honored previously in Congress. But now that this precedent has been set, Congressman King thought it was important to honor Christmas. This is just simply the exact same language used as the Ramadan resolution on Oct 2.

Yet King didn’t even vote for the Ramadan resolution. King instead joined a handful of right-wing lawmakers, including Reps. Virgil Goode (R-VA) and Tom Tancredo (R-CO), who voted “present.” (They didn’t want to explicitly vote “no” because they didn’t want to be seen “as not commending religion in general.”)

Additionally, it’s questionable whether these religion resolutions are truly “unprecedented,” as King’s office claims. In the 109th Congress, the late JoAnn Davis (R-VA) also introduced a resolution recognizing the “the importance of the symbols and traditions of Christmas.” King voted for that bill.

http://thinkprogress.org /

[Hersheygirl]

59. This is why I want no part of religion, what-so-ever.

'nough said.

[frogmarch]

60. This legislation

is bullshit. :mad:

Congress is kissing up to the fundies.

[Gregorian]

61. WHAT THE HELL IS WRONG WITH CONGRESS!

For what it's worth, I'm a Christian.



What a waste. As if Christianity needed Congress. I'll tell you who needs Congress. Darfur.

[robertpaulsen]

64. Yes. I support the right for morans to participate in circle jerks.

I just refuse to participate and hope my elected representative and the intelligent majority have the common sense to decline as well.

[knitter4democracy]

65. Where's the "Hell, No!!" vote?

Nay just doesn't quite cut it for me on this. Disgusting PR grab by the GOP.

[TrogL]

67. Where's the companion resolution for Pastafarianism?

[Fire Walk With Me]

69. What? They want MORE???

I recognize it, but not at the expense of anyone else.

Whenever a law such as this comes around, it is stench'd to the skies with future exclusion.

History is filled with charismatic groups, each claiming exclusive access to God and thus, God's will. The bodies of those excluded, also fill history.

[Labors of Hercules]

71. I have little to no respect for American Christians as a whole...

As for those throughout the rest of the world, well, they're marginally more respectable.

[JerseygirlCT]

73. Why would that be?

In both cases?

[Labors of Hercules]

94. oh that's a really long explanation...

In a nutshell: So many church congregations (and members thereof) in the U.S. fundamentally ignore the tenets of faith that most directly mirror the teachings of Christ to the point that "Christianity" is no longer even definable within them.

I think this is true in other countries as well, but to a lesser degree.

[JerseygirlCT]

103. Interesting

Not my experience, at all.

I wonder what the breadth of experience would need to be in order to make a sweeping statement like that?

[Labors of Hercules]

120. Well, here's a simple test:

How many churches do you know of that focus completely on carrying out the teachings of Christ, as opposed to say, for example, focusing completely on the worship experience?

I live in the South. In almost every Southern church I've interacted with (I've sung for services in well over 1000 churches of almost every denomination by now), being saved is the key, worship is the focus and the practice of carrying out the teachings of Christ is an afterthought.

Maybe your experience is different, and I can understand why... Some of the most genuine faith in practice experiences of my life happened while I lived in New Jersey.

[JerseygirlCT]

126. Well, I'm in CT now, grew up in Jersey

but yeah, my experience says that the religious communities in my area are quite involved in not just worshipping together, but doing good work together.

Now, I don't agree with discounting the worship -- that's always going to be central to a person's experience when they've chosen to affiliate with a particular church. A big part of one's practice is about corporate (as in a body of people, not as in big business) worship. It's communal, it's about being together as much as it's about each person's solitary religious life.

But the soup kitchens and fundraising and all sorts of other stuff wouldn't likely happen as well as it did

(Now, if you're talking about who has the biggest screen and loudest band, well, that sort of worship experience is pretty foreign from my experience!)

I think they're inextricably intertwined, myself. There's no faith without works. (Can you tell I was raised R. Catholic, lol?)

[Labors of Hercules]

129. I'm tempted not to consider Catholicism when we talk of "American Christians"...

I guess because my family are from a Catholic South American Country, and I tend to view Catholicism more globally... But yes, that interconnection between worship and works, I think, is the mark of honest Christians. I guess when I see "Respecting American Christians" as indicated in H.R. 847, (which refers to numerical majorities who call themselves "Christian"), it doesn't really represent to me those who aspire to the faith and acts we view as fundamental to being a Christian. It represents the majority, who I honestly don't respect at all because they have adopted a faith they call "Christian", but that in practice fundamentally contradicts Christ.

[JerseygirlCT]

131. Truly, I don't think they are the majority

For one thing, R. Catholics are the single largest group among Christians in the US, if the stats I found recently are still correct.

But there are so many others, even including some of the rightwing type (just to be fair) who *are* out there, helping people, doing what needs doing. It's really hard to draw either political or denominational lines for that.

Theologically, of course, there's long been an argument about faith vs. works. As I said, I think both are the ideal. But forced to a choice, I'd guess God cares a whole lot more about how we treat one another than about how God is worshipped, you know?

[JerseygirlCT]

72. Oy

Like there's not enough real work that needs to be done?

[magellan]

76. I don't support this or ANY attempt to make religious decrees in politics.

And I'm so sore with the hypocrisy in DK's 'yea' on this that I'm now candidate-less.

[Cleita]

80. Amen!

Freedom from religion guarantees freedom of religion, not the other way around.

[RiverStone]

82. s-e-p-e-r-a-t-i-o-n means separation

ANY attempt to make religious decrees is exactly right!

Where did the notion creep into the body politic that someone or some many can insert religion into my government? I'm also deeply disappointed at DK's hypocrisy (got flamed a little for stating the same in another thread).

My admiration for all the great stuff he has done stands - no change there. But I will not support federally sanctioned bigotry in any form, regardless of who votes YEA.

Back to the drawing board on the primaries...

It won't be Hillary!

Though when the dust settles, I'm still a Dem and plan to stay that way.

[magellan]

88. Agree with all you say

Up to the part about finding another candidate. I'm an independent who's never voted 3rd party in the GE. Kucinich was the only candidate I could support. Now I won't be voting. It's that important to me.

[Occam Bandage]

77. Present. I don't explicitly disagree with any of it. It's just a worthless waste of time.

[Cleita]

79. Since Christmas was originally the Pagan festival of Yule, the

Roman holiday of Saturnalia and we don't know how many other festivals before going back to the Stone Age, I can't really see where those Christians are coming from. I personally acknowledge the Winter Solstice, a day of mourning for me, when my husband died.

[Mike Daniels]

81. What makes this any different than the earlier resolution recognizing Ramadan?

Personally, I think Congress should spend more time fixing what's wrong with the country than passing statements of recognition for any holiday (outside of perhaps Memorial and Veterans Day).

That said, while I realize this was done in reaction to the Ramadan resolution/statement it's precisely because one was recognized that I just can't work up any sense of bother over the other one being recognized as well.

[RiverStone]

84. here's the difference

credit to Frazzled:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=389x2453268#2453697

[Initech]

83. If pro is the opposite of con, what is the opposte of progress?

:banghead: :grr: :argh:

[symbolman]

89. Making Christianity the Largest Religion in the world...

Cue Monty Python here: "Lord, You are SO BIG.. None of Us can even begin to imagine how Incredibly LARGE You Are.." :)

Guess they decided not to toss China in the mix..

When do I get my Troop Head In A Box so I can gift wrap it in time to put it under the Tree? I want to beat the Rush before some wily Right winger dcides to pass a bill to Quarter Dead Troops in our houses so they can do Bush a favor and HIDE THE BODIES..

Scum sucking bottom feeding monsterous TRAITORS, each and every damned one of them..

Grow a Pair and FIGHT for my Country you goddam mall lawyers and cheap Realtors pretending to be Statesmen.. Shove you goddam Religion up your asses, instead of down MY Throat!

In short: Get Your GOD Off My Back!!

Incensed over here...

[countryjake]

90. Nay!

[balantz]

91. Perhaps they are just preparing to defend

the state-sanctioned religion, and it's flock and holy sites, etc. from the "infidels"?

[dysfunctional press]

92. it doesn't bother me at all- but i don't know why christians are so insecure and needy...

that they constantly need to be noticed and acknowledged. :shrug:

[JuniperLea]

93. I'd have to make a few changes...

Resolved, That the House of Representatives--

(1) recognizes the Christian faith as one of the great MANY religions of the world and should be given no more or less credence than any other religion, and no more or less than as to Atheists;

(2) expresses continued acknowledgment of all religions, including Christians in the United States and worldwide, as an individual right that should not be forced upon anyone;

(3) acknowledges the international religious and historical inaccuracies of Christmas and the Christian faith;

(4) acknowledges and supports the role played by Christians and Christianity in the founding of the United States and in the formation of the western civilization, in as much as the founding fathers wanted to be sure no government could force religion upon them, or keep them from religion;

(5) rejects bigotry and persecution directed against Christians, and by Christians, both in the United States and worldwide; and

(6) expresses its deepest respect to all people with or without faith, including American Christians, American Atheists, and Christians and all people with or without faith, including Atheists, throughout the world.

Without my changes, this is total bullshit.

[JBoy]

95. It's 'cause there's not enough Christmas shopping going on

Gotta let it be known that Christmas is IMPORTANT, so get out there and buy shit!

[Annces]

96. Nay

All personal beliefs should be safeguarded. Christianity is one among many.

[goddess40]

97. This country was not based on Christianity!

They are trying to re-write history.

[Disturbed]

98. What was the point of this stupid resolution?

There must be an agenda.

[goddess40]

99. To prove this is a christian nation

which it isn't

[balantz]

102. It is as far as the rulers are concerned.

[bemildred]

100. Much more important than impeachment of honest elections. nt

[gollygee]

101. Looks a bit like establishment of a religion

Don't like it.

[OzarkDem]

105. H R 847 is a health insurance related bill, nothing about religion

Are you sure you have the correct bill number?

110th CONGRESS

1st Session

H. R. 847

To amend the Internal Revenue Code of 1986 to require that amounts paid for employer-provided coverage under accident or health plans be included on W-2 Forms.

IN THE HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES

February 6, 2007

Mr. COOPER introduced the following bill; which was referred to the Committee on Ways and Means

A BILL

To amend the Internal Revenue Code of 1986 to require that amounts paid for employer-provided coverage under accident or health plans be included on W-2 Forms.

Be it enacted by the Senate and House of Representatives of the United States of America in Congress assembled,

SECTION 1. SHORT TITLE.

This Act may be cited as the `Healthcare Disclosure Act of 2007'.

SEC. 2. AMOUNTS PAID FOR EMPLOYER-PROVIDED COVERAGE UNDER ACCIDENT OR HEALTH PLANS INCLUDED ON W-2 FORMS.

(a) In General- Subsection (a) of section 6051 of the Internal Revenue Code of 1986 (relating to receipts for employees) is amended by striking `and' at the end of paragraph (12), by striking the period at the end of paragraph (13) and inserting `, and', and by inserting after paragraph (13) the following new paragraph:

`(14) the total amount paid for coverage under an accident or health plan (determined under section 4980B(f)(4)) which is excludable from gross income under section 106.'.

(b) Effective Date- The amendments made by this section shall apply to taxable years beginning after December 31, 2006.

[countryjake]

114. Here it is, the number is correct...

http://www.govtrack.us/congress/bill.xpd?bill=hr110-847

I believe that the one you've posted (H. R. 847) was a bill that has never made it out of the House Ways and Means committee. It would have needed passage by both the House and Senate plus the president's signature in order to become law.


H. Res. 847 is a simple resolution, legislative action stops with the passage by whichever chamber of Congress presented it and such resolutions do not need to be sent over to the other side (in this case, the Senate) in order to take effect. It simply represents the bent of a house and is not actually a law.

[Pushed To The Left]

106. Will there be a resolution representing other religions or people who aren't religious?

Why are they only including one religion?

[MiniMe]

107. That vote doesn't belong in congress

[madeline_con]

108. We just don't have enough Christmas

now we need legislation! :eyes:

[Kadie]

109. What about Festivus!

When will the recognize Festivus!!!

[tnlefty]

111. No.

As there is no hell no option.

[Sanctified]

115. At First I was hell no then I read this:

This Passed on October 2nd with no objections, almost the same text.

http://www.govtrack.us/congress/billtext.xpd?bill=hr110-635

H. Res. 635: Recognizing the commencement of Ramadan, the Islamic holy month of fasting and spiritual renewal,...

Whereas it is estimated that there are approximately 1,500,000,000 Muslims worldwide;

Whereas since the terrorist attacks on the United States on September 11, 2001, some threats and incidents of violence have been directed at law-abiding, patriotic Americans of African, Arab, and South Asian descent, particularly members of the Islamic faith;

Whereas, on September 14, 2001, the House of Representatives passed a concurrent resolution condemning bigotry and violence against Arab-Americans, American Muslims, and Americans from South Asia in the wake of the terrorist attacks on the United States;

Whereas some extremists have attempted to use selective interpretations of Islam to justify and encourage hatred, persecution, oppression, violence and terrorism against the United States, the West, Israel, other Muslims, and non-Muslims;

Whereas some Muslims in the United States and abroad have courageously spoken out in rejection of interpretations of Islam that justify and encourage hatred, violence, and terror, and in support of interpretations of and movements within Islam that justify and encourage democracy, tolerance and full civil and political rights for Muslims and those of all faiths;

Whereas Ramadan is the holy month of fasting and spiritual renewal for Muslims worldwide, and is the 9th month of the Muslim calendar year; and

Whereas the observance of the Islamic holy month of Ramadan commenced at dusk on September 13, 2007, and continues for one lunar month: Now, therefore, be it

Resolved, That--(1) during this time of conflict, in order to demonstrate solidarity with and support for members of the community of Islam in the United States and throughout the world, the House of Representatives--

(1) recognizes the Islamic faith as one of the great religions of the world;

(2) expresses friendship(2) in observance of and support for Muslims in the United States and worldwide;

(3) acknowledges the onset of Ramadan, the Islamic holy month of fasting and spiritual the House of Representatives acknowledges the onset of Ramadan renewal, and conveys deepest its respect to Muslims in the United States and throughout the world on this occasion;
←→

(4) rejects hatred, bigotry, and violence directed against Muslims, both in the United States and worldwide; and

(5) commends Muslims in the United States and across the globe who have privately and publicly rejected interpretations and movements of Islam that justify and encourage hatred, violence, and terror.

←→

Attest:

Clerk.

[DemExpat]

116. !!!

n/t

[Breeze54]

117. Looks like the the Christian one is in retaliation to this! - Gheesh!

We have to completely take over the house, the senate and the WH! :grr:

I can't take much more of this rethug tit-for-tat crap!!

[endarkenment]

123. Why this is different than HR 635

An attempt has been made here to say this is not a violation of the constitution and the bill of rights and is identical to HR 635, another obnoxious resolution celebrating ramadan.

While similar, this odious christmas resolution contains the following dangerous passage that directly supports the dominionist bullshit:

"Whereas the United States, being founded as a constitutional republic in the traditions of western civilization, finds much in its history that points observers back to its roots in Christianity;"

This is a violation of the separation of church and state, of the establishment clause.

[onenote]

128. self delete

[and-justice-for-all]

118. nothing but fuckin' horse shit!

What the fuck! Do these public servants even read the Consitiution or do they just wipe their asses with it?!!

I AM PISSED!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!:grr:

[bklyncowgirl]

119. Wow! I guess they must have balanced the budget, solved global warming & ended the war.

After all, why else would they have so much time on their hands for such silliness. Glad to see my Rep voted present.

[Lydia Leftcoast]

121. Hell no, and I'm a Christian

I wonder if the people who voted for this even read this piece of fundie-inspired nonsense.

[endarkenment]

122. This is an insult to our constitution and the bill of rights. nt.

[mnhtnbb]

124. I support impeachment of Cheney/Bush. In that order. I do not support self-righteousness.

[Crunchy Frog]

125. .

:puke: :puke: :puke: :puke: :puke: :puke:

[Toasterlad]

132. Paging the Congressional Democratic Apologists: Where ARE You?

We need you to explain to us why this vote was important and how it shows that congressional Dems really DO have a spine, and really ARE doing their best to fight for what we want. Wouldya clarify how this vote fits in to our powdery, dry agenda? Pretty please? Because, quite frankly, some of us are wondering just WHAT THE FUCK THOSE ASSHOLES THINK THEY'RE DOING, VOTING ON CRAP LIKE THIS WHILE THE COUNTRY ROTS!!!

Thanks a bunch!

[zorahopkins]

133. Theocracy

We are becoming more of a theocracy every day.

I fear for the future.