I'm curious..How many Christians have experienced religious bigotry in real life?

[TZ]

As a secular/atheistic Jew who is also a professional biologist, it seems that I have been having to deal with Christian biogotry of one sort or another my whole life. Starting with the knowledge that many many relatives of mine died in the Holocaust...And its my opinion (and many other Jews opinion btw) that the Catholic Church certainly played a role there. I have also listened to many Christians make unconcious slurs like using the verb to "Jew" in reference to bargaining down a price. I had a sister whose academic future was jeopardized by a bigot who headed her HS gifted program by constantly giving her D's and F's on perfectly fine English papers (my mom taught English so she could see the bias).
I find myself in awkward situations because of being an atheist...As soon as I say I am someone tries to convert or "save" me or "educate" me even when I try to politely decline, then there are the you are going to hell attitudes. I however am lucky that I haven't lost a job because I am an atheist (it happens) or lost my job because I know ID is not a science and shouldn't be taught along side science (something happening more and more).
Also I am lucky that I have never been physically hurt by Christians. Think about all those abuse victims from Priests who molested children and how psychologically damaging it must have been for them to watch the priests get protected during the various cover ups.
Think about minorities having to listen to idiots like the KKK saying that the Bible says that whites are superior....Or how irksome it is to see Jesus, JEWISH, pictured as aryan type (blonde, light brown hair blue eyes) when you know there is NO WAY he could have looked like that...

Think about what many gay people have to deal with. The insults, the hate, the physical abuse sometimes (more frequent than is reported I think). Think about what its like to be a Muslim in this country since 9/11. Think about how often those of us in the far minority have to listen to the fundies blather about how this is a Christian country founded on Christian principles.
Oh btw, I have yet to hear a President say that Christians aren't REAL American citizens nor have a DEMOCRAT say that freedom of religion doesn't necessarily give Christians rights to their views.

So yes, there are an awful lot of snarky, anti-Christian posts here. Some are very rude to my eyes too. I try to be respectful of others beliefs and not fall into the broad brush smears. But I would like to remind folks that there are FAR worse things that can happen than having to read rude, obnoxious posts on a message board. Many people have real reasons for disliking/distrusting religion. And its irksome (to say the least) for those of us who are minorities and have had to deal with REAL prejudice to hear Christians of any stripe complain about being "persecuted".
I will say not too many on DU think they are actually "persecuted" but I think its important to remember why there are soo many here that make these anti-Christian remarks.
Flame away if you wish, but I just think its important to keep things in perspective.
:rant:

[GreenPartyVoter]

1. All very good points. I think mainly the fuss today is that those of us Xians who stand with you

are being made to feel that we don't stand with you, but rather with the fundies.

[kestrel91316]

5. Some of us, at least, know the difference between a True Christian

and a fundie Christofascist freak.

The silent majority of Christians are the former. The squeaky wheels are the freaks.

[AspenRose]

17. Or that somehow liberal Christians would "benefit" in a Dominionist

Theocracy.

That couldn't be further from the truth.

Did Bonhoeffer "benefit" when the Nazis took over the church in Germany? No - he was murdered for speaking out and going against the regime.

Why does our current government feel so threatened by QUAKERS that they feel the need to spy on them?

Weren't there ministers jailed recently at the anti-war protests in DC?

To say that we'd somehow "benefit" is irresponsible, IMHO. Not to mention hurtful. In the eyes of the Christian Right, we are not the "right" kind of Christian....in other words, we're fair game too.

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

2. It seems to me, as evidence by this Golden Compass thing...

that for the most part "Christian Bashing" = blasphemy, heresy, and sacrilege.

[Ikonoklast]

3. The funniest thing is, all the Jewish people I know are respectful

Of others' beliefs. I have never heard one of my Jewish co-workers or employers ever say that I'm going to hell because of my beliefs (or lack of them). They all seem secure enough in their own faith that they don't need me to re-enforce theirs.

Some of the so-called Christians I have known or worked with, OTOH, have no problem condemning me to hell for not conforming to their particular flavor of Christianity. When I proclaim myself agnostic, they recoil as if I said that I had leprosy.

[TechBear_Seattle]

4. If you use their grossly incorrect definition of "bigotry," then lots

To the Talibangelicals, any comment, effort or court case that prevents them from killing gay people, forcing women to become baby incubators and throwing away the Constitution as the first step of making their delusions into the law of the land is anti-Christian bigotry. Therefore, none of the examples you gave are "bigotry," QED.

[NMMNG]

7. Yes

To the whackjobs outside Target yesterday, telling them they couldn't harass gay people( e.g., telling them they're evil perverts that deserve to die and go to hell, for example) means you're "persecuting Christians". :banghead:

[ayeshahaqqiqa]

6. Excellent post

and you make the point that some religious groups really HAVE been persecuted. What we need to do is be vigilant so that there is not another Holocaust.

Having said that, I will say that fundamentalist Christians have plagued me throughout my life, even when I was a Christian. My church wasn't the "right" church, you see. I still recall the horrid anti-Catholic pamphlets one of our fundamentalist cousins foisted on us in 1960--my mother and grandmother stopped at the nearest rest stop and threw them down the toilet, because they didn't want the things in the car.

Personally, I think that one's philosophy of life is a personal choice, and one that is very personal and introspective. To try and force another to believe the way I do is anathema to me. It's like insisting that everyone's view of a rainbow must be the same, when science informs us that everyone's view is unique.

[Jackpine Radical]

8. Christians, hell.

Go around telling people you're a pagan and see what happens.

[Chemical Bill]

9. My brother...

was harassed in elementary school because he was Protestant. A teacher was the one who harassed him, she was Catholic. He got along fine with his Jewish and Catholic classmates. Funny world, this.

Bill

[Maestro]

10. Very little bigotry IMHO.

I am just sick of the blurring of the separation of church and state. Christians can teach whatever they would like to teach their children in church and their own homes but keep it out of government and public institutions such as schools. When people remind them of this, many groups become enraged and claim bigotry when in fact it isn't. Liberal Christians understand this, but liberal Christians are in the minority or, at the very least, do not scream as loud as the Talibornagains. :eyes:

Nice rant btw.

[Gregorian]

11. I must be very lucky.

I was raised by a father who more often than not approaches things with the attitude of not knowing. I remember a time when I was a roofing contractor, of all things, and I had a worker who was a Limbaugh listener. I recall one day he saw a kid who appeared Jewish. He asked the kid, as I cringed. And then proceeded to tell him he would go to hell since he wasn't a Christian.

Tolerance. I can say that I've met very few people on this planet like my father. He's tolerant of almost everything. It's something that stems from some kind of absence of arrogance. Absence of self-importance.

And after all, what do we really know? Even the most basic laws of physics have quirks. And those are fundamental concepts that are well defined by equations. Everything else is fogged by unknowns.

I think we must approach everything with open minds. With acceptance. With "not knowing".

Why is someone gay? What difference does additional melanin in the skin mean? Did god really create the earth and send his son down here?

We think we know.

[EFerrari]

12. When I was a little girl, the Catholic Church taught that it was the

one true Church and that you were going to Hell unless you were Catholic. I don't remember my catechism teacher ever being hateful about it, she was a very kind woman. But, that's what we were taught.

[madeline_con]

14. On the other hand, the Baptists said....

that Catholics aren't really Christian. :shrug:

[EFerrari]

21. It's amazing, isn't it, how much energy is spent telling OTHER people

that they are not okay. lol

[madeline_con]

13. I did, just the other day.

I was talking with a coworker, who asked if my Muslim son and his new bride will wear "Arab garb" on their honeymoon in Italy later this month. I said they'll probably be in jeans.

She said that's nice, because "people in Italy might not like that". :eyes:

Then, I mentioned that I'd heard France had banned hijab for Muslim girls in schools (I don't know if this is still true, I was making conversation).

She opined that because of security, that might be a good idea. I told her it was equivalent to telling us we had to take off our clothes and work in our underwear, it was that offensive. She just said something about learning to live in a new country, or something really stupid.

My eyes glazed over and I heard a buzzing sound in my head. I'm sure it was a defense mechanism to protect me from idiocy seeping in. I kept my mouth shut, knowing if I said ONE word, I'd say too many. I know this woman thinks the "Left Behind" series is a great literary achievement, and that Islam is evil, and all number of other drivel.

I'm tired of hearing other self-proclaimed "Christians" say stoopid, hateful, ignorant shit about other people! :mad:

[JuniperLea]

15. Not just religious slurs... racist against the Welsh

I'm Welsh... and I DON'T "Welsh" on deals! I'm also American Indian, but I'm NOT an "Indian Giver". I'm also Irish, and my Irish ancestors were sold into slavery... then later when their descendants came to America, they couldn't get jobs appropriate to their skills... "Irish Need Not Apply". I was told to never tell anyone I'm Irish.

If we dig deep enough, we can all find something to be indignant about. Personally, I feel that all people should be judged on their own merits as a human being... not the color of their skin, not their house of worship, not their ancestry, nothing more than what they do (or fail to do) as human beings. It's the only fair way of dealing with people.

I was raised in a Fundy church, by an Irish Catholic grandmother, and my Godparents were Jewish.

My father is a life-long, staunch Republican (Goldwateresque, not current regime) and my mother is a life-long, progressive and extremely liberal Democrat.

If I can learn to live with myself, and my family, shoot... some people just need to learn to get along.

[JerseygirlCT]

16. Not me

And I agree with many of your points.

As to the people who seem to need to unload here on religious people in general, and in particular Christians, I'll certainly admit to being irked at times, but really, it's much more about them and their problems than about me. So I try to just let it go. Sometimes there's an opportunity to correct a misconception, and then I'll take that.

This whole idea of Christians being persecuted is being pushed heavily among the rw-fundamentalist sub-set right now. It's just plain strange. But again, I think it reflects their own issues, not fact.

Fact says that Christians (of whatever denomination, and of whatever level of observance, from "culturally Christian" to devout) are in the majority by a big number in this country, in this government, etc. There's no persecution here. Try Saudi Arabia if you want some of that.

[Catherine Vincent]

18. When I was growing up, I was a minority among non-catholic kids.

The Catholics were mocked all the time. I was young and didn't understand why I and a few others were so few in numbers. My parents couldn't afford to send us to Catholic School.

[knitter4democracy]

19. I have.

I grew up in an evangelical church and went to their college. I was one of the few liberals there, so I got some really "fun" hazing stuff, especially after I sat on a panel in chapel and told everyone not to vote purely about abortion. *sigh*

Or the time I was told to leave the country because I was a commie because I was against the bombing of Hiroshima.

Or the time I sat with a Dem friend in chapel while the preacher told us that a vote for Clinton was a vote for a murderer and couldn't leave (we were in the third row and would've been fined for leaving--not many of us had extra money at that point to pay the fines) and felt her stiffen up and go red.

Or the time one of my best friends was rammed off the sidewalk and spit on because he was the campus atheist and wrote an op-ed in the school paper saying chapel shouldn't be required. I was next to him, and I tried to stop it, only to have the guy turn on me.

Or my mother-in-law telling us that we could never discuss our faith in her house again when we switched churches to the Eastern Orthodox Church after we got married. We still can't, and it's been ten years. She puts her purse and trash on our icon table and thinks nothing of it. Or my cousin asking if we were going to hell now because we were in a different church. Or Hubby's little sister writing in her new Bible that she needed to pray for us to get us back into the "right" church.

I know that bigotry, and it hurts. I watched friends get hurt on a daily basis merely because they were different or were on a different path than the rest of the student body. I watched in pain as my gay and lesbian friends were attacked and hurt, and there was nothing I could do about it. I did what I could, but it didn't take away the pain, did it? It didn't undo the action, the nasty words, the hurt.

That's why I try to be understanding and let most of it go. I have seen the nastiness in some Christians' hearts first-hand, and I know how it hurts.

[slackmaster]

20. A few people tried to make fun of me for being in the church youth choir when I was a teenager

Until I pointed out that it was one of the best places in town to meet beautiful rich girls.

[struggle4progress]

22. America is a land of rampant prejudice of all sorts

If you're educated, somebody will dismissively call you "college kid" and if you do manual work, somebody will dismissively call you "ignorant redneck"

Hippies and former hippies may remember having bottles and cans thrown at them by self-righteous thugs, but looking back thirty-some years some of us weren't favorably inclined towards clean-cut suit-wearers then

I've lost count of the times someone has tried to tell me a racist joke or that everything would be fine if the jews or mexicans weren't around, not to mention the times I've seen a guy driving by yell something nasty at a woman because her appearance wasn't to his taste

There are some real jerks out there: some babble religious-sounding speech with their hate, and I've met some of those

But it is my impression that the haters are a noisy minority