I have been at work all day. Help me. An ARMED GUARDED CHURCH??!1

[matcom]

:wtf:

am watching MSNBC with some blonde who shot a bad dude. She apparently was talking directly with GAWD himself.

she was a GUARD?

who has armed GUARDS at a church?

someone PLEASE fill me in!

again.

:wtf:

[Blue_In_AK]

1. It's very strange to me, too,

but in this case, probably good that she was there.

[silverojo]

29. Colorado is Jesus Junkie hell

And Colorado Springs is its epicenter. Methinks the high altitude has something to do with those Bible-thumping folks not getting enough oxygen to their brains....

[Blue_In_AK]

40. I don't know what happened to Colorado Springs...

I lived there when I was a kid from 1955 to 1962, and I don't remember it being anything like that. Maybe it was always that way, and I just didn't notice? :shrug:

[Captain Angry]

2. Ever been to Colorado Springs?

I'm surprised the priest wasn't armed.

[matcom]

3. no. and from your post

it isn't likely a place I will ever visit :scared:

[Captain Angry]

21. It can be one of the most beautiful places on earth.

With some of the most genuinely nice people.

Unfortunately the Focus on the Family types there make it overtly religious. There's a line between true faith and a crusade. Colorado Springs is about 100 miles into crusade country.

[kestrel91316]

26. Priest???? This wasn't a Catholic church, lol. Protestant churches

don't have "priests" - they have "pastors". Except for Episcopalians, but they're half popish anyway.

[Captain Angry]

30. I am not going to even try to figure out what the terminology all means.

I should have said manager or CEO or something, since the pastor is the head of that business.

But priest got the point across.

[kestrel91316]

35. CEO suits it best, IMHO. House of worship, my a--. All they worship

there is money and power.

[Turbineguy]

4. I was at a fundie church

and heard the sermon.

They need armed guards.

[Wcross]

5. They DID have a related shooting earlier that day.

From what I understand the woman who saved her congregation was a concealed carry permit holder who volunteered to carry. She wasn't a rent a cop. Good thing she did, huh?

[K Gardner]

6. She'd been fasting, and talking to God, and they shot the shooter.

I think the Holy Spirit was involved, too. (New Life Church in Colo, shootings yesterday)

[DesertRat]

7. I was very surprised as well

But they said that because of the fire power that the shooter had, he could have killed up to 100 people if the guard hadn't taken him down. She is a church member and former police officer.

[TomInTib]

24. Insurance requirements.

Think about it.

All of that cash that is collected during the services.

And a church full of who-knows-how-many-nutcases.

[DesertRat]

31. Makes sense to me. n/t

[NoPasaran]

8. Even the Pope has the Swiss Guards

Start any trouble, they'll go medieval on your ass!

[Crabby Appleton]

16. yep

[Retrograde]

38. Those are the show guards

there are others, in modern dress with very modern weapons. All visitors to St. Peter's go through a metal detector (the place has been know to attract some unhinged persons), but then so do most visitors to art museums - which the basilica is in part. So do visitors to the Coliseum. But that's the only church I've ever been in that has any sort of security.

Back in the Good Old Days (meaning when I was a kid) Catholic churches were open all day. They made a good refuge when school was closed and the buses stopped running after we got there, and we literally did have to walk 5 miles home in the snow! That practice stopped a long time ago.

[Solly Mack]

9. Apparently they caught the holy ghost trying to escape one Sunday

Been on locked down ever since

[knitter4democracy]

43. *snarfgle* I nominate that one for a DUzy.

:rofl:

[malaise]

10. That was a higher level of

madness.

[whyzayker]

11. "I'm Glad Gawd Chose Me"

"It was just me, the gunman and Gawd," she said.

Sorry, but that was just the creepiest thing I've seen in a while.

[Union Thug]

15. So, why was super daddy with her, but not with those that were shot?

I'm confused. Gawd seems a little capricious to me.

Oh yeah, I'm just about to leave to say my final goodbyes to a friend who was moved to hospice with only days to live. Nice woman, very, very Christian. 52 years old. Why her I wonder, and not some 'bad guy' blasting away innocent people? I don't get it.

I don't want to hear anyone bringing the so called all-mighty into conversations. Ever. It's all a load. The fact is, it was purely chance that the guard was there, and armed. It had nothing to do with divine intervention.

Damned right it's creepy. At least the SCA has a tongue in cheek attitude towards their 'new middle ages' stuff. What's scary is when people take it seriously.

[malaise]

12. Seriously I suspect that they've conned so many people

over these 20 years that they're always on watch for an attack.

[RamboLiberal]

13. A church who had 7,000 members on the campus

Had Ted Haggard as pastor at one time. Not that strange.

In fact as some poster mentioned in another thread some local laws require a security on site during events.

I say thank Gawd she was there.

Hey, their religion and their always crediting everything to God is not my particular cup of tea, but if I was a church goer with the number of shootings at churches and other public places I'd have no problem carrying my weapon.

[AZBlue]

14. Yeah. After the earlier attack, some churches got guards for their later services.

I can't tell if you're just trying to create yet another "let's hate all the Christians just because there are a few bad ones out there" or not. If you're not and you really wanted answers, here you go: the earlier attack was considered a hate crime against Christians and other churches were advised to be cautious. Since this church has over 7000 in attendance on Sundays, I'm not at all surprised they brought in guards. Pretty smart actually.

As for whether or not she talks to God - how does that affect you? If she wants to talk to God, let her. That has no bearing on your life whatsoever.

[RamboLiberal]

17. I agree with you

One point in earlier accounts I read is that she apparently volunteers regularly to be a guard. The accounts said she normally guards the pastor.

Now I don't know if that is completely true. You know how early news accounts tend to not be completely accurate.

[matcom]

18. your snark aside

tonight is the first I have heard about this whole incident.

i find armed guards in a church quite ironic on so many levels.

didn't know about the earlier shooting.

yes, her press conference just now creeped me out.

seems to me, if there is a madman on an 'anti-xtian' rampage, maybe I would have chosen NOT to hold services.

kind of like if someone is targeting schools. guess what. school is CLOSED until this gets resolved.

does it affect me? nope. my normal life insulates me from most of this garbage.

:hi:

[RamboLiberal]

20. Not to hold services

20/20 hindsight is nice and I bet they wish they had done so.

But I can't fault them - the other killing was 12 hours and 65 miles apart. Ever hear of anyone locking down or cancelling for a killing 12 hours ago at a location 65 miles away? Not even schools would do so unless they had a real good reason.

[msongs]

19. armed guards to protect kids from the child molesting priests, ministers, & republicans? nt

[applegrove]

22. Sounds strange to me to have an armed guard. Unless it is a megachurch. I'm from Canada and

I've never heard of that.

[TomInTib]

23. I would imagine their insurer would require armed security guards.

A monster church.

Massive cash offerings during the service.

And a hall full of 10,000 crazies.

[kestrel91316]

25. I think they just had the armed security this Sunday AM, because of the killings

at the missionary school on Saturday night. They don't normally have armed guards, lol.

But I'm thinking they will from now on.......

[RamboLiberal]

28. No I think they do have armed guards regulary

Unless earlier stories today were wrong they mentioned this woman has volunteered before and normally guards the pastor. One of the Denver newspapers mentioned they have 12 armed guards.

[kestrel91316]

33. When I go to church (like every 5 years or so), I make a point

of avoiding the ones with a militaristic, under siege mindset......

[Countdown_3_2_1]

27. Having armed guards paid off.

Do you know of any gathering of a 1000 people today that doesn't have some sort of security?

This church was wise. The Mall shootings show that this world can be brutally violent.

[spin]

32. A church is normally considered a gun free zone...

But often you find people who carry during a service. An off duty cop is an example.

Also I would suspect some people with concealed permits might be armed in church. If I were to go to a church service for some reason (unlikely), I would have my weapon with me. The weapon is concealed, no one else would know I had it on me.

I don't believe Jesus is going to protect me from some madman with a rifle. I would just pray to him that I would take out the bad guy without hurting some innocent person.

The gospel says that Peter used a sword to slice of the ear of a slave in the garden where Jesus was arrested. I would suspect Jesus knew and approved of Peter carrying a weapon.

[matcom]

34. "I would suspect Jesus knew and approved of Peter carrying a weapon."

yes.

Jesus was an 'eye for an eye' guy. :rofl:

Jesus: "I shot a man just to watch him die."

:rofl:

[spin]

39. I'm not an expert on the Bible...

but I have read it, which is more than most Christians can say.

I found it a very brutal and violent book. God doesn't come across as a really freindly superior being unless you followed his rules. If you strayed off his narrow path and attracted his attention, really bad things could happen to you. If you believed in some other God and happened to occupy land he wanted for his people, you were out of luck.

Jesus, on the other hand, seems a lot less violent. But if he allowed his followers to carry weapons, he obviously believed in self defense if necessary.

[Lydia Leftcoast]

44. See my post #42

:-)

[ileus]

41. Hold on a minute, I thought that was the JC in Black.

[Lydia Leftcoast]

42. Actually, Jesus did NOT approve of Peter going after the servant with a sword

John 18:
10] Then Simon Peter having a sword drew it, and smote the high priest's servant, and cut off his right ear. The servant's name was Malchus.
<11> Then said Jesus unto Peter, Put up thy sword into the sheath: the cup which my Father hath given me, shall I not drink it?

Luke 22:

<49> When they which were about him saw what would follow, they said unto him, Lord, shall we smite with the sword?
<50> And one of them smote the servant of the high priest, and cut off his right ear.
<51> And Jesus answered and said, Suffer ye thus far. And he touched his ear, and healed him.
<52> Then Jesus said unto the chief priests, and captains of the temple, and the elders, which were come to him, Be ye come out, as against a thief, with swords and staves?
<53> When I was daily with you in the temple, ye stretched forth no hands against me: but this is your hour, and the power of darkness.
<54> Then took they him, and led him, and brought him into the high priest's house.

Matthew 26:
<51> And, behold, one of them which were with Jesus stretched out his hand, and drew his sword, and struck a servant of the high priest's, and smote off his ear.
<52> Then said Jesus unto him, Put up again thy sword into his place: for all they that take the sword shall perish with the sword.
<53> Thinkest thou that I cannot now pray to my Father, and he shall presently give me more than twelve legions of angels?
<54> But how then shall the scriptures be fulfilled, that thus it must be?

[knitter4democracy]

45. Um, Jesus chewed him out and then healed the high priest's servant.

Jesus was angry that it happened. It was his last miracle before the cross.

John 18: 8-11

8"I told you that I am he," Jesus answered. "If you are looking for me, then let these men go." 9This happened so that the words he had spoken would be fulfilled: "I have not lost one of those you gave me."

10Then Simon Peter, who had a sword, drew it and struck the high priest's servant, cutting off his right ear. (The servant's name was Malchus.)

11Jesus commanded Peter, "Put your sword away! Shall I not drink the cup the Father has given me?"

[spin]

47. Jesus disapproved of the way the weapon was used,

not the fact that Peter was carrying it.

note this Bible passage:

Then Jesus asked them, "When I sent you without purse, bag or sandals, did you lack anything?" "Nothing," they answered. He said to them, "But now if you have a purse, take it, and also a bag; and if you don't have a sword, sell your cloak and buy one. It is written: `And he was numbered with the transgressors' ; and I tell you that this must be fulfilled in me. Yes, what is written about me is reaching its fulfillment." The disciples said, "See, Lord, here are two swords." "That is enough," he replied. (Luke 22:35-38, NIV)

[knitter4democracy]

51. Did Jesus ever carry one?

He often let his followers do stuff in order to make them feel more comfortable that He himself never did or would have done. Just because He lets the disciples carry swords when He sends them out (only to have them come back saying that there's someone they can't heal and need Him to deal with) doesn't mean that He himself ever carried one or promoted violence.

[spin]

60. With all the power he possessed,

a weapon was unnecessary. Imagine, if you will, a SUPER Superman.

Some people would point out the following passage from the Bible in which he did use violence:

John 2:13-16
13 The Passover of the Jews was near, and Jesus went up to Jerusalem.

14 And He found in the temple those who were selling oxen and sheep and doves, and the money changers seated at their tables.

15 And He made a scourge of cords, and drove them all out of the temple, with the sheep and the oxen; and He poured out the coins of the money changers and overturned their tables;

16 and to those who were selling the doves He said, “Take these things away; stop making My Father’s house a place of business.”

[knitter4democracy]

61. The one time He was violent?

What about all the other times He chose to answer with peace?

[spin]

62. Jesus used righteous anger

in the Temple. Consider that the Temple, which was his Father's house of prayer, must have seemed like a Middle Eastern bazaar with traders selling animals for ritual sacrifice and money changers making a greedy profit. Somewhat like the floor of the New York Stock Exchange.

While he displayed anger and used violence to "cleanse" the Temple, no one was injured and no property damaged (except for a couple of dinged up tables). His actions challenged the authorities and eventually led to his arrest. You could argue that this tactic was necessary to attract enough attention to set in motion the chain of events that led to his crucification.

At any rate, he was basically a nonviolent person in a very hostile environment. Jesus was much less violent than his father as depicted in the Old Testament.

Perhaps that is why I find the basic teaching of Jesus so compelling when compared to other religions, especially those religions with origins in the Middle East. While not a pacifist, Jesus set an exemplary example (to say the least).

I find it tragic that Christianity has distorted his message and misused his teachings to promote and justify so much brutality throughout history.

But I believe that a follower of Christ could use violence as a last resort in an extreme situation.

[knitter4democracy]

63. Amen to all of that.

I entirely agree. :hug:

[Scurrilous]

36. "Praise the Lord and Pass the Ammunition." n/t

[The Straight Story]

37. I think it is called common sense

Thousands of people, lots of money, all in one location.

If they didn't have security people would be bitching about that.

I worked security for 5 years, including in a nursing home - who would think you needed it in a nursing home???

It helps to defray the cost of insurance (especially when you have a lot of autos in the parking lot).

[MH1]

48. Hey, no fair

using logic. :)

[Township75]

46. Well to answer your question

"who has armed GUARDS at a church?"

People who are f'en happy as shit they are alive today as opposed to saying "this is a church, therefore why would we need an armed guard?"

Just because they go to church doesn't mean bad sh!t ain't going to come to their church.

simple enough.

[napi21]

49. They did say there were 7,000+ people there ! I guess any place

where that many people gather has the possibility of having a problem or two, don't ya think?

[Dukkha]

50. if a church needs armed guards it's too damn big

hopefully this will put the so-called "mega churches" in different perspective and reevaluate the need for excessive use of tax-free real estate for these arena size compounds for daily God ass kissing.

[benEzra]

52. Synagogues have been doing this for a long time, and with good reason. (n/t)

[Swede]

53. Welcome to 21st century America.

They have them in schools,too,you know.

[Aviation Pro]

54. Synagogues regularly....

...post an armed guard (usually a gentile off duty police officer) during Sabbath service and the High Holy Days.

[ElsewheresDaughter]

55. well when 95% of parishioners are NRA concealed gun toter's what did you expect

[Wcross]

56. I am a "concealed gun toter" but have never given a dime to the NRA.

I'm glad to see you agree that citizens with concealed carry permits can stop a madman though. I was always curious why some idiots thought it was a good thing that only the criminals were armed.

[jmg257]

57. In that case I would expect at least 90% to have been armed. They know their stuff! nt

[Ishoutandscream2]

58. Hey, someone has to guard all the dough

and protect it while loading it on the Brinks truck. Hail the almighty dollar!!! Praise Jesus!!!

[Ganja Ninja]

59. Maybe this will help you understand.

Both the school and the church that were attacked were associated with the disgraced preacher Ted Haggard (meth & man ass) as well as the group Exodus International that claims to "cure" homosexuality. With that weirdness in mind the inclusion of an armed guard hardly seems out of place.

I can't help but wonder how much personal "mentoring" the reverend did with this young man.