How The Sex- Obsessed Culture Damages Girls (book)

[katty]

more: http://news.scotsman.com/uk.cfm?id=1921622007&format=send

Girls taught to value sex over achievement and intelligence
MALCOLM LAW

TEENAGE girls would rather be sexy than clever, according to a new book which blames celebrities such as Paris Hilton, Christina Aguilera and Britney Spears for the phenomenon.

Carol Platt Liebau, a leading political commentator in the US and the first female managing editor of Harvard Law Review, warned young women were being taught to believe "sexy" equates to empowered.

The author said "promiscuity and sexual aggression" were now being seen as the only way to achieve admiration.

And she suggested girls now competed for attention based on how much they were sexually willing to do for boys.

[PassingFair]

1. Duh! And this is news....how?

[katty]

2. well it's another book - not in the news section

[Bobbieo]

6. It's news to me.Things weren' that way when I was a teen.

And "yes' it was a helluva long time ago. I just got through reading a detective novel on that very theme - sex and the teenager.

[zalinda]

7. Great pic of foot binding

Take a good look at that foot, remind you of the high heels that women wear today?

Foot binding was a necessary evil for many Chinese women. Because of the culture, many women didn't become wealthy on their own, and therefore not as powerful. But, Chinese women were notorious for being the power behind their men. Foot binding denoted wealth, and a woman with a small foot was almost guaranteed a good marriage match.

And yes, foot binding was sexual. This woman in the pic would never have shown her bare foot to any man, other than her husband, and sometimes not even to him.

zalinda

[The Icon Painter]

15. Size

Judging by the woman's hand, that appears to be a rather large 'lotus foot'. I have seen photographs of much smaller ones. And yes, it does remind me of the extravagantly high heels some silly Western women wear. Both are crippling devices designed to appeal to men who like their women hobbled.

[Clark2008]

36. I like high heels, but, then I walk, naturally, on my toes.

Have all my life. Flat shoes hurt my feet, believe it or not. Even when I was pregnant, I wore shoes with some heel. My feet would hurt worse without them.

However, that doesn't excuse the culture. Just my personal peccadillo.

[Bobbieo]

8. Pearl Buck's novels - The Good Earth for one!!!.

[riverdeep]

53. The most revealing bit of info I learned about foot binding,

that blew my mind at the time, was that footbinding was actually done by the mother or grandmother of the child. It amazed me that women absorbed that mentality and passed it on. Same with other practices like FGM. It's a real eye-opener for how things get done. Even for less obviously debilitating practices.

[BlueIris]

3. Thanks for the tip! nt

[aint_no_life_nowhere]

4. Too bad we don't live in a world where the mind and body are equally valued

I see nothing wrong in liking sex for sex's sake. It's perhaps the greatest human pleasure. But alas we don't seem to value the mind in equal proportion. I think both girls and boys suffer from an anti-intellectual attitude in the American culture of youth. Boys are valued by girls for the size of their penis or their muscles and height or the fact that they are "bad boys". In high school, the boy jocks and the girl cheerleaders look upon the studious, less attractive boys and girls as geeks and nerds.

[Hardrada]

12. How would the girls know all nerds have small dicks?

This would be statistically anomalous!Do they put this stuff in the school paper?

Blake Smith, Captain of Chess Team, 4 point scholar. 4 inch wiener.

[cyborg_jim]

49. You can't force what is attractive - those things are strongly biologically determined

And penis size sure as hell IS NOT a major criterion.

"Bad boy"-ism more so - but not for the reasons people presume.

The fact that American culture is seriously anti-intellectual is a whole-nuther kettle of fish that really has very little to do with sex.

[aint_no_life_nowhere]

58. I agree - except, I never said what you claim I said

I never said the anti-intellectual attitude among our youth was due to sex. I never said that physical attractiveness could be forced. I'm continually amazed at how posts get completely distorted around here. What I did say is that there's nothing wrong with sex. What I did say is that our youth culture doesn't seem to value cultivation of the mind IN ADDITION TO the body. Other countries do not even have slang words for "geek" or "nerd". I know that because I spent time in my youth in Europe in their school system, where smart students who spent time studying instead of going out for sports or to school dances were not put down at all.

[Dyedinthewoolliberal]

5. Except in the case of the three names cited

Christina does have talent ie: something to offer........

[Sugar Smack]

51. OK, that's exactly what I was thinking.

:)

[gollygee]

9. K&R

[Beerboy]

10. Carol Slutt LIEbau is a braindead right-wing whore,

nothing she has to say is of any consequence, she's merely whoring a book instead of her formerly more attractive physical attributes.
Google Carol LIEbau, she's a slimy washed-up neo-con snake, but it wouldn't be be surprising to learn she has a PhD in promiscuity.
She's a worthless neocon whore.

[Der Blaue Engel]

11. Is it possible to use a less sexist epithet to get your point across?

It might lend more validity and less irony to your post. :shrug:

[piedmont]

19. Der Blaue Engel...

[noamnety]

33. You just lost all credibility

to even discuss this issue.

[Sugar Smack]

63. Beerboy, WTF? Do you really, REALLY think this is the right thread

for "slut" & "whore"? I happen to know you're trying to present it in a metaphorical sense, but GODDAMN. Use some discretion. Or forethought.

[toadzilla]

13. Female Chauvanist Pigs is an excellent book on this topic.

[Donnachaidh]

18. where the hell do you see anything about chauvanism in this post?

Let's clarify what chauvanism is --

from Wiki - Female chauvinism can refer to two things. It can be the belief that females are superior to males. It can also refer to women who replicate male chauvinism and sexist stereotypes.

Pointing out that women are taught stupid stereotypes does NOT mean they feel they are superior to men. Of course, the stereotypes are pushed on young women by marketing types, primarily MALE - so perhaps the chauvanists are actually the MEN? :eyes:

[riverdeep]

56. I think you misunderstood.

The book 'Female Chauvinist Pigs'-from what I gather, haven't read it but the reviews-is a book that says pretty much the same thing as the OP is getting at. That women are taking their cues from the world of raunch culture and ignoring their own internal views.

http://www.amazon.com/Female-Chauvinist-Pigs-Raunch-Culture/dp/0743249895

[Sugar Smack]

59. This book is not about that. AT ALL.

If I were a published author, I'd want my work to get as much attention as it could. This is not in the least about superiority to men. It's about sex, culture, youth and power.

[provis99]

14. ironic that teenage girl sexiness is now blamed on women

Paris Hilton? Christian Aguilera? Britney Spears? The flip side is that probably a lot of guys their age are turned off by the vulgar sexiness, writing them off as "sluts".

[Manifestor_of_Light]

16. Intelligent women are a threat to many men.

Intelligent, accomplished women are often ignored or denigrated by insecure men. Insecure men like trophy wives that look good but won't voice an opinion or have an original thought.

Very sad.

[PassingFair]

17. Not sad. We don't generally GIVE A CRAP what insecure men want.

So it's all good.

:evilgrin:

[lumberjack_jeff]

20. The last three posts paint a confusing picture.

It's unfair to blame women like Paris for their cultural impact on teen girls, AND this is a result of men's preferences because men are intimidated by intelligent women AND no one cares what men think anyway.

I've never heard anyone excuse the impact that Barry Bonds steroid use has on teen boys, "because insecure women don't want to date a loser". Thus logically, if we could only rid the world of insecure women, the problem would go away. Since this is an impossible task, accountability for Barry Bonds and the teens who follow in his footsteps is permanently dodged.

It's infantilizing. The culture as modeled by Michael Vick and Barry Bonds has an affect on the attitudes of boys in the same way that Paris Hilton's behavior influences girls.

[PassingFair]

25. I said I don't care what INSECURE men think.

And I think those padded football players and beefed up wrestlers are
more for the boys to slaver over than the girls....

THIS is what the young girls like right now:


Not exactly your pumped up steroid user....

[lumberjack_jeff]

26. And I don't know any boys who fantasize about Paris either.

You're making my point. Paris is a powerful, influential, millionaire grownup who is actively using her celebrity in detrimental ways, who gets her celebrity primarily from girls.

She's not here as a tool of the vast male conspiracy. She's a grownup who is responsible for the way that her behavior negatively influences the culture of the girls who idolize her.

To the poster who thinks that men are only attracted to bimbos, I have two words. Dana Scully.

[PassingFair]

29. Then you and I have no disputes!

I don't think it's much different today than it was
50 years ago, or 500 years ago.

Girls and boys want to appeal to each other.
To do that they think they have to stick to
the prevailing norms, whether that's cone bras and
tight sweaters or zootsuits or pierced navels.

Smart boys and girls go about their business and
attract other smart boys and girls as they do so.

Nothing changes.

[Prophet 451]

31. The thinking man's sex goddess

I could also add Carol Vorderman (although that may be Brit specific).

[XemaSab]

61. I'd switch teams for her

[lumberjack_jeff]

62. I'm sure she's not as brilliant as her character made her seem.

But she does look pretty good. :)

[femrap]

42. If this is the case, then why are

all the boys in my part of the country shaving their heads, wearing pants that hang to their knees, and are just plain ugly?

Guess you must live on the east or left coast....that gives me hope....eventually those trends move inland. I've always wanted to be a 'dirty old women' but there is nothing in sight..lol!

[PassingFair]

44. Mid-West.

My girls are both in love......

His name: William Beckett

The band: The Academy Is ...

(That's the actual name of the band)

[IronLionZion]

22. My girlfriend is intelligent, successful, and has many opinions and original thoughts

and that's precisely why I love her. I don't want to even imagine being with eye candy who can't think for herself.

Just my $0.02.

[tridim]

21. Except our culture is sexually repressed.

Maybe that's the problem?

[CoffeeCat]

23. Just look at the toys for young girls...

I have 6 and 7-year old girls. All of their friends have Bratz dolls.
They want Bratz dolls.

Have all of you actually seen these incredibly popular dolls? They're
so revolting, it's beyond the pale. Some of the baby Bratz dolls wear
low-rise diapers and full make up.

The regular dolls are dressed like hookers. They have children's bodies, but
the clothes, hair and make-up of glammed out, middle-aged street walkers. In addition,
these dolls' faces are empty. The dolls lips are over-sized and
bright red or pink. Their eyes are vacant and expressionless--as if there's nothing
inside. The expressions remind me of the glazed-over look that you'd see
in Playboy.

The sad thing is...these dolls are so popular and lucrative that
other toy companies have imitated the Brat-slut look. To compete, Mattel now
offers a "My Scene" version of Barbie, complete with the same hooker-wear and
racy accessories.

For years, my children have asked me why we can't have Bratz dolls. It's disheartening
to begin fighting this battle when your girls are toddlers.

[KittyWampus]

37. 'My Scene' Dolls brand name sound like it's a play on 'My Space'

[formerrepuke]

60. Bratz dolls.. "Slutz" is more like it...

[AdHocSolver]

68. One has to wonder about the "intelligence" of parents who buy this junk for their kids.

The only reason many kids want this stuff (which looks pretty grotesque to me) is because their friends have them. Yet six and seven year olds don't usually have the ability to buy this junk for themselves. If parents had better taste, then this stuff wouldn't sell and would stop being manufactured.

In Gulliver's Travels, Swift talks about child rearing being done by a bunch of poorly trained incompetents. I would say that the popularity of those grotesque dolls is proof of that claim. Parents buy that junk for their kids to "keep up with the Joneses". If the parents have no good taste, then their kids will likely grow up the same way.

[IronLionZion]

24. This country certainly does have an obsession with sex

repression and the reactionary backlash to it are definitely causing most of these problems.

I grew up in an affectionate family, there was lots of hugging and kissing and I definitely think that's a good thing. Others weren't so fortunate and might think that "promiscuity and sexual aggression" are the ways to someone's heart because they don't know any better.

I certainly think sex is a positive thing that helps us bond together. But it should be used the right way, and definitely not used to get something whether it is power or admiration or whatever. Sometimes, parents don't need to let their kids watch some of the garbage that's on TV. It's just not real.

[Prophet 451]

27. I'm in two minds here

On the one hand, what is being said is (partly) true.

On the other, it does smack a little of the traditional "youth of today" complaints which reactionaries habitually make when a society is no longer as it was and even more so of the traditional (and bloody annoying) double standard where women are viewed as sluts if they do the same as a guy does. Lines like "In a culture that celebrates Paris Hilton thong underwear, there's scant modesty or achievement that isn't coupled with sex appeal" read like the standard moaning of someone who can be found in any pub anywhere. It also negates the very real fact that the culture industry is driven by money. If these things didn't sell, they would not be produced so blaming the media, Hollywood and coarse TV (and is it just me or does this sound like the familiar Repug blaming "liberal bias"?), you are effectively blaming the people who watch those shows, go to see those movies and so on. The industry of culture doesn't operate in a vacuum, you can't just produce what you want and people will automatically pay to see it, there has to be an audience (which is why so many movies, even good movies, flop).

On the third hand (?), I just know someone (possibly even some posters here) are going to apply the fallacy of the excluded middle and argue for repressing teenage sexuality entirely. When you get a line like "Girls are being led to believe that they're in control when it comes to sexual relationships. But they're actually living in a profoundly anti-feminist landscape where girls compete for attention on the basis of how much they are sexually willing to do for the boys", one has to wonder what is so anti-feminist about a woman being a sexual being? Much of this falls into the familiar trap of holding women up as the madonna who has sex purely to please her man rather than because she enjoys it.


If teenage girls are being taught to value sexual attractiveness over intelligence or achievment (and I'm not convinced they are and I'm also not convinced that this is unique to girls) then that is a bad thing. But there is also the fact that teenagers are sexual and it does no good at all to repress, deny or demonise that. I'm sure some girls are having sex to please their man (although when you get phrases like "girls compete for attention on the basis of how much they are sexually willing to do for the boys", the natural next question should be "evidence please?") but I'm equally sure that an equal and possibly greater number are having sex because it's fun and feels good. Isn't that why most of us do it as well?

[PassingFair]

30. Right, because THESE were so much less ANTI-FEMINIST than thongs:

...sigh


So what ELSE is new?

[Prophet 451]

32. Huh?

Sorry, I'm not sure what point you're making (although the stroll through the history of underwear is mildly interesting).

[PassingFair]

34. Contorting and twisting to fit the "norm"

Nothing new under the sun.

[Prophet 451]

35. Ah

No, there never was. The styles change but the desire to be accepted and find a mate, that's universal.

[KittyWampus]

38. We can make the point however, that those fashion trends were NOT used by young girls

and reserved as a rite of passage.

[PassingFair]

40. Paris Hilton is TWENTY-SIX, not twelve.

And remember, it wasn't unusual for girls
to MARRY at fourteen or fifteen, fifty to
a hundred years ago.

I used to put my hair in "rollers" and use
my Mom's lipstick when I was a kid. . .

almost killed myself rollerskating in one
of her old "pencil" skirts (one leg swooped
up and took the other one with it when I didn't
expect it!).

I have two girls, ages 12 and 15. They are
JUST FINE. They are allowed to watch TV and
go on the internet. They do not leave the house
with cleavage hanging out.

They KNOW what is appropriate.

We TALK.

:)

[HughBeaumont]

55. Geez, can you say "bladder and intestinal vise"?

Men and women use those things for body modification practice. I can't believe these were once the norm for women to wear. Then there's that whole "foot binding" thing the Chinese women did to please their men. Unbelieveable.

[kineneb]

67. I love my corset, and farthingale, too.

Ever try to wear full Elizabethan Court clothing without the proper undergarments? My dress weighs far too much to be worn without a corset.

Until the 20th century, clothing was as much structural engineering as it was fashion. Without the proper framework, the garments don't work.

-member of Her Grace's Court, in the year 1575.

[smoogatz]

28. And yet 57% of U.S. college students are women.

Or were, as of 2005: http://www.usatoday.com/news/education/2005-10-19-male-college-cover_x.htm

So maybe there really is some kind of problem here (although the article provides no stats to back up Ms. Lebau's assertions), or maybe the whole thing is just a lot of made-up rightwing hysteria bullshit aimed at further oppressing young women. Hmmm.

It's also worth noting that even back in the stone age (1975 or so, when I was a teenager), trashy girls who put out (as we used to say) achieved a great deal of admiration. From me, at least.

[femrap]

43. I wonder how these women are going to

react when they hit the Glass Ceiling?

I always find it interesting when a right-wing woman dons a feminist viewpoint and all of the lefties boys come out and say she is a neocon and that Lefty women must provide sexual treats or be shoved into the same niche as the right-wing neocon woman.

Objectification of women as simply sexual objects is NOT A PROGRESSIVE OR LIBERAL STANCE. Do you get that leftie boys? We thought you lefty boys were FOR human rights....don't you think women are human? Stop being hypocrites.

[smoogatz]

46. What "feminist viewpoint" is she "donning?"

Because it sounds to me as though she's saying that girls should dress modestly and abstain from sex, or they're never going to lead truly fulfilling lives (as defined by her). Which is, you know, fundie claptrap and has nothing to do with actual feminism.

FYI: I'm forty-eight years old; not a boy by a long-shot. FYI 2: the whole old-school feminist complaint about objectification has more to do with its subscribers' misunderstanding/misrepresentation of men and the male libido than with anything men actually do. It's a lot more complicated than that: many of us can actually walk and chew gum at the same time.

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

47. That's what I was wondering.

The "sex-obsessed culture" thing set off all sorts of bells and whistles.

[femrap]

64. AAAAAAAh, the righteous FYI

from the Lefty boy. Not much has changed since the '70's. I don't really care about your ability to walk and chew gum simultaneously...you aren't trying to put a ballerina out of work, are you?

Yes, we women deal with the male libido daily. Locking our doors, staying out of public garages at night, finding the best place to buy mace, taking self defense classes, volunteering at domestic violence shelters, always on alert when walking to our cars and then making sure no one is under or in the car....yes, every damn day we understand what males do. And what they DON'T DO...they do NOT educate their brothers by not laughing at a rape joke and taking advantage of this as an opportunity to open up the minds of these knuckledraggers and discuss the rape of a loved one. Oh no...that male would be ridiculed, right?

You all love your individual mothers, girlfriends, wives, daughters, etc.....the problem is you don't give a rat's ass about mothers, daughters and wives in general.

Ignored.

[smoogatz]

66. Yep. Men suck.

No wonder you hate us so much.

On edit: Yeesh.

[SoCalDem]

39. Post-WWII infantilization of adolescents/young people

Prior to WWII, most kids & young adults were just small adults.. The depression era meant that EVERYONE worked.. even the kids. There was precious little time for playing , for most kids.

After the war, and all the death & destruction, parents & society set out to make "youngsters" the be-all & end-all of just about everything.

Kids got pampered, coddled & smothered with attention. Kids, who a generation earlier, would have been working alongside their parents, in clothes hame-made from those same parents' cast-offs, were suddenly turned into objects of pride & joy...objects to be pampered, dressed up, and told to "play"..

The way we mature through adolescence, changed on a dime during those years.

To be young and carefree..doted on by all, was something to be held onto at all costs.

With all those cute young Boom-ettes out there strutting their stuff in their teen years..and doing it publically, it became OKAY for grown up men to look at them.. It was impossible NOT to look at them.. They were EVERYWHERE.. on billboards, in movies, on magazine covers, on TV..in your own living room.

Youth and the natural healthy good looks that go along with it became the signature of an America, re-born as a young strong country..ready to take on anyone, anytime..

The lenghthening of adolescence meant also, that kids no longer graduated from high school, got married, had a family, and "grew up"..all by the time they were 21..

Young teens realize, early on, just how powerful their sexy look can be, and of course they want to make the most of it. Even younger girls idolize the older ones, and want to be like them. Merchandizers are the middle-men, eager and willing to supply everything they "need" to do just that..

It's no wonder kids get so screwed up in the head.. They get so many mixed messages..

Dads leave Moms for younger women
Cute girls get the cute boys
Flirty girls get lots of dates
Cute girls can make lots of money on their looks
Skinny girls look younger, so skinny is always "better"
etc
etc

[Hidden Stillness]

41. ...And Yet, There are Negroes Even in Congress...

Well, I guess you have encountered an authentic feminist sentiment, from an actual woman, becuse you then instantly get the (often) hateful and manipulative barrage against it. Some are "reasoned, sociological treatises," that always manage to end up being against women and feminism, and for whatever the male wants; others are the typical "you bitches are so repressed, because I don't get everything I want," etc. The same media that is attacked for its mind-control and commercializing of every one of our own previously self-thought-up opinions, is now suddenly nothing but "nature" and health. Many people are not even making any distinction at all between a true sexual interest and attraction that each individual will choose to feel and respond to, and a forced, regimented male-media conformity that just as often, makes women feel like shit and gives us nothing we want, whether it makes males angry to be told the truth or not.

This reminds me of a book I was re-reading a while ago, the great memoir by Louise Brooks from the '80s, on her career in Hollywood and Germany, "Lulu in Hollywood," the very intelligent and "modern" Louise Brooks. She was describing the films of G. W. Pabst, such as "Pandora's Box," calling them, "not about sexual love, but sexual hate." Just because it is "sex," doesn't mean it is even friendly, for males hypocritical enough that they actually still need to be told this. It reminds me of the case in Canada, of this horrible bastard Pickton, who murdered 49 women--whom the police never searched for all the years they kept going missing, because they cared so little--who was just convicted of, bizarrely, 2nd degree murder (?). One woman, a former prostitute, told CBC News about a friend of hers who was murdered, by two males who beat her, then ran over her with thier truck; there are many males who go to prostitutes just so they can pay for the chance to torture a woman, as Pickton did.

For an example of hate, how about when a white woman is raped and murdered, and her corpse has not been found. Everywhere you go, there are opinions, "Why is anybody covering the story of some missing white bitch trivia shit, rather than something important, or somebody really oppressed?" I used to think, Only on DU would a raped, lynched white woman be considered "privileged," then I realized the instant opportunity to jump to hatred of women happens everywhere. "Oh, they are so repressed--they are RIGHT-WING, yeah, that's it, great, RIGHT-WING!" Males are going to have to face, sooner or later, that women have another perspective and another life, we do not always parrot or mirror you, and you are going to have to listen to the real people in the real world, and not just attack or manipulate. Do you know that there are even black paople trying to fight the epidemic of drugs, malt liquor, and packaged commercial violence, in black communities? Now what are you going to do, accuse all those groups of being "repressed," too, or do you just save that one for us, when we tell you our side of things?

There are studies showing all-time high levels of depression and self-hate among teenage girls, and it is not because they love all the corporate male porn that traps them in a prison all their lives. During the 1970s, feminism became so popular among girls and women, that sales of makeup, etc., plunged, and the male media went on the attack, as they still do today--"You are ugly, you are shit, your opinion doesn't matter, only the male's does, they own everything, you will fit their standards, we will call you all 'bitches' any time we like..." Male porn and commercial advertising is the opposite of women's true sexuality, interest and feeling good; there are no alternatives at all. It is the same narrow-focus mind-control that the corporate media uses on everything else.

[femrap]

45. Great post, Hidden Stillness...

I read the NYTimes Magazine a couple of years ago about Pron...said that counselors at colleges were seeing lots of males because they couldn't form relationships with women....they viewed real women as 'bad pron stars.' The guys preferred to stay home and jack off to the computer.

[smoogatz]

48. You've entirely missed the point.

But that's okay, you got to fire off your pet rant, so it's all good. The article quoted in the OP says: "TEENAGE girls would rather be sexy than clever, according to a new book which blames celebrities such as Paris Hilton, Christina Aguilera and Britney Spears for the phenomenon." My point was that teenage girls seem to be reasonably clever despite Paris Hilton et al, if their majority status at America's institutions of, you know, higher learning is any indication. It's possible, it turns out, to wear thong underwear and also have a high GPA. Go figure. Of course, you might have an apt comparison there if 57% of congress were black; or if more white women were incarcerated than in college, say. But it isn't, and they're not.

[Hidden Stillness]

50. "You Bitches Don't Know Anything About Women!"

"I am going to tell you one more time--you are going to follow the 'feminism' I TELL YOU TO, and it just so happens to be the same as my male porn magazines and videos--Got it??"

[smoogatz]

52. Hooray! More talking points!

Because your anger is more important than actually responding to anything anyone else says. Okey dokey, smokey.

[Hidden Stillness]

54. Good-Bye, Bigot

There will never be any progress on anything, as long as males like you, with so much anger toward us, do nothing but give us orders.

[smoogatz]

57. I don't have the jpeg handy

but let's pretend I just posted a picture of a bunny with a pancake on its head.

[Nikki Stone1]

65. I think the OP is right on the money.

Feminism has, in the 90s, turned toward this whole "sexuality as empowerment" thing. This is just so wrong.