Do dog breeds exist?

[Cruzan]

If they do then just how different biologically are human races (other than not being artificially 'bred' by another species)?

[H2O Man]

1. please n/t

[ChairmanAgnostic]

2. no shit.

[jpgray]

6. Seconded

[Red Zelda]

3. all dogs are the same species

[baldguy]

4. Dog breeds exists, Hunan breeds don't.

[IndianaJones]

17. Hunan chicken...yum. nt.

[baldguy]

26. huMna...huMan..huMan

HAPPY?

[Javaman]

33. Soylent green is Hunan Chicken!!!

huh, I can work with that.

:rofl:

[Union Label]

37. ROFLMA! nt

[Buzz Clik]

5. Someone suggests that races don't exist?

[La Lioness Priyanka]

9. race is a social construct not a biological construct. which is not to say race doesnt exist,

any more than gender doesnt exist. it just means we as a society give race meaning.

[Buzz Clik]

14. Race was more meaningful 100 years ago, or maybe 200 years ago...

... before the world became so "small". And I agree that society gives race meaning beyond biological implications. However, to deny differences among various races is a bit blind. The difficulty arises in assigning differences to race versus culture and environment. Nevertheless, certain differences among races exist; if they did not exist, we would be incapable of sorting people according to race.

Do the differences go beyond physical appearance? Absolutely, but many of these differences can be diluted or muted when overwhelmed by culture. Some differences are not.

Am I willing to fight to the death defending this? No.

[TZ]

18. Tell me what are the biological differences between races

outside of appearance? As a biologist, there aren't any that are significant (except for some genetic tendencies that differ from group to group but thats more about isolated pockets of people interbreeding for generations in a specific environment than the whole race thing).
Don't say intelligence either. Thats a biiig myth....

[Buzz Clik]

25. Coming from a biologist, this is bizarre.

For centuries, the system of classification of plants and animals established by biologists used appearance as one of the critical tools. Often, appearance was the sole means of distinguishing one species from another. Similarly, species of animals have been broke out based on where they live or breed. Considering that race is simply differentiation within a species, physical appearance is all that's needed.

Do I think that the races of human are separated by tremendous physiological differences? No. Are they different? Yes. These guys are different, even if it's based only on appearance.

[TZ]

28. No actually species are distinguished by whether or not they can interbreed

Not by differences in appearances. Color polymorphism is incredibly common within a species-- birds often have this--Flickers for example red vs. yellow where the red is an eastern version of the yellow western version. Same with leopards and the black panther--same animal--but the leopard is spotted and the all black panther is the solid version.
The differences between human races is about as complicated as animals that have different coat colors depending on what climate they live in. In other words, the surface appearances aren't biologically significant. The three people you posted might LOOK different but they aren't, genetically and its GENETICS (genotypes) that distinguish species, not phenotypes (appearances)

[Buzz Clik]

29. But, we're talking about race differences, not species.

[OnyxCollie]

46. Appearance is a poor way to classify.

They all look like humans to me. Race/breed is a concept created by society. Look at these dogs.


Belgian Groenendale (My dog Duck-Duck)

Belgian Lakenois

Belgian Tervuren

Belgian Malinois

In the United States, these are considered four different breeds. In Europe, they are all considered to be Belgian Sheepdogs.

On edit: Two black Belgians can produce a Belgian Tervuren (tortoiseshell), but the Tervuren produced from that pairing is considered a "fault" and cannot be shown in AKC dog shows.

[IsItJustMe]

44. I do know this much. 99.999999 percent of the genome are the same between all races, if that helps.

[undeterred]

7. It takes 15-16 generations of breeding to create a dog breed.

Dogs don't give a hoot who they mate with however.

[Buzz Clik]

15. My leg agrees with you.

[undeterred]

22. I have a 15 year old male dog

and he was neutered at the pound the day I got him. That was my only fear in getting a male dog- but he never humped people, only a few other dogs. He's a cuddler and quite a gentleman.
But if he hadn't been neutered, it would have been a different story...

[La Lioness Priyanka]

8. here is a good article that explains why biological races do not exist

http://academic.udayton.edu/race/01race/race.htm

[TZ]

10. the premise is stupid---you think the amount of pigmentation in the skin/eyes

makes a difference biologically. People ARE people. ONE trait--skin color--out of how many thousands of traits?
By the way, humans have something called CULTURE, which is actually a bigger difference between people than the amount of MELANIN in their skin. I suggest you take a biology and anthropology class.:banghead: :banghead: :banghead:

[La Lioness Priyanka]

11. or a sociology class. i personally think intro to race/inequality/sex and gender

should be mandated in high school.

[tekisui]

12. Absolutely!

[dysfunctional press]

19. there are biological differences between races other than skin colour...

that's just the one that's visible to the naked eye.

[La Lioness Priyanka]

20. really? like what?

to have a biological difference there has to be a gene or a cluster of genes that are found in all individuals in one race and not another.

[Beerboy]

40. I doubt it,

all the evidence points to don't believe your lying eyes. Genetically, humans are all the same.

[dysfunctional press]

42. humans are not all the same- there are different blood types for one thing.

and no, i'm not suggesting that different races have different blood types.

[AngryAmish]

24. There are biological differences other than skin color

"Drug combo for African-American heart failure patients is cost effective

American Heart Association rapid access journal report:


DALLAS, Dec. 13 – A drug that improves survival and reduces hospitalization in African American patients with heart failure also significantly reduces the cost of care, according to a report in Circulation: Journal of the American Heart Association"

So this drug combo helps African American patients more than other patients. Like everything biologically one cannot make sweeping statements but must talk in generalities. But in general African Americans benefit from this drug combination more than other races. So there must be something biological there, especially if it passed double blind testing.

There are other biological measures beside skin color. For example lactose tolerance is much more common in northern European folks than equatorial folks. Asian eye-folds is another. Sickle cell trait, which is mildly protective against malaria, usually exists in folks of African descent.

I don't have the cites handy, but humans come from a relatively few people overall. There have been a few bottlenecks in human evolution which killed off the majority of our ancestors and only a few isolated groups survived. I believe the last one was the last glacial maximal, about 20,000 years ago.

[TZ]

30. there are genetic tendencies

and they are based on environmental factors, not "race" per se.
The people with the sickle cell gene aren't all black..some are of the olive skin variety..but they all lived in tropical climates.
But that has to do with inheritance patterns. The differences between races is still almost all phenotypic--as I said upthread--a black panther and a leopard don't look much alike, but they are the same animal, and probably the black variant occured because of the specific environment one group went off of.Oh and these are also tendencies. White people can get sickle cell anemia,just as black people can be lactose intolerance. If race was a big biological difference, than it shouldn't be possible for non-tropical people to get sickle cell anemia, but it does happen

These patterns of genetic differences however don't effect the biggest difference between races and that is CULTURE.

[Buzz Clik]

27. Here's a biological definition of race:

In biology, a race is any inbreeding group, including taxonomic subgroups such as subspecies, taxonomically subordinate to a species and superordinate to a subrace and marked by a pre-determined profile of latent factors of hereditary traits.

Examples of race include:

• The key lime and the Mexican lime, both of species Citrus x aurantifolia. The Mexican lime has a thicker skin and darker green color.
  
• The wild cat (Felis silvestris silvestris), desert cat (Felis silvestris lybica) the domestic cat (Felis silvestris catus).
  
• The Western honey bee is divided into several honey bee races


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Race_%28biology%29

I'm thinking that pretty well covers the concept of human races -- they exist.

Are the differences among the races important? Not usually; most of the differences are superficial.

However, a quick scan of the finals of the 100 m dash in the Olympics over the past 50 years suggests something of a trend related to race. The fact that sickle cell anemia is linked to a particular race also suggests an important difference.

The social key to race is not pretending it doesn't exist -- it's learning how to embrace the differences.

[TZ]

31. and as I just said

Sickle cell anemia is possible in whites as well..the genetic patterns that distinguish races are VERY weak. In animals the concept of race is usually applied to species that have no geographical interaction which minimizes "crossbreeding".
So the whole concept of race with humans is quite minimal because all groups have become so interbred (for the most point) the differences are pretty meaningless.

[Buzz Clik]

32. The question was, does race exist? The answer is still yes.

It's not as meaningful today as it was 250 years ago. Does interbreeding among races exist in the world? Yes. Has the concept of human races become meaningless as a result? No. Races still exist.

Your argument is losing steam because 1) you have confused race with species and 2) you are confusing the existence of human races with the importance of human races.

We may not like the horrible human reactions that people have to those in another race, but human races exist.

[Toots]

13. I think your example is pretty right on

There is only one "race" of dog although there are numerous breeds with new ones being formed. While humans are a bit more complex there is only one "race" the human race. The so-called "races" can be and are being changed by manipulation..

[Orangeone]

16. Humans

Humans are less intelligent than dogs in that respect. A Chihuahua looks very different from a Great Dane but they still recognize each other as dogs. Humans freak out about slight physical differences.

[La Lioness Priyanka]

21. good one.

:rofl: :thumbsup:

[Vickers]

23. My beagle thinks this thread is stupid.

I haven't taught the terrier how to read yet.

[Javaman]

34. "you know dog spelled backward is god? makes you think, you know?"...

:rofl:

[Avalux]

35. You obviously never took a biology class.

It's all in the genes. Dogs have a lot more to 'play' with than humans. Dog breeds and variances in human traits cannot be compared.

[MonkeyFunk]

36. there is more genetic diversity

within a particular race than there is between races. Races are an articifical construct.

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

38. Dog breeds are inbred freaks.

Great danes and chihuahuas meet the technical definition of different species. If you consider their group of inbred freaks to be a legitimate population.

With all love and respect to dogs.

Black people and white people are the same, just with a different amount of melanin. You wouldn't consider people with blue eyes to be a different race/species/subspecies from people with green eyes, would you?

Because that's the same difference. Melanin content.

[slackmaster]

39. Unit 3 (Felis silvestris catus) does not approve of this thread

[EFerrari]

41. deleted

Edit: sometimes people don't need to know what I think.

[Blue-Jay]

43. That's offensive to "breed" people.

:rofl:

[JuniperLea]

45. Amusing how Fundies are all over this stuff...

Yet, if the myth were to be believed, all people came from one set of parents... as do all dogs, since the only two that existed at one time were on Noah's ark.