And we wonder how Bush can still have 25% of the country behind him?

[Joe Fields]

Hell, people, just look at some of the threads on this board. I can't believe, at this point that there are people that still believe in our own party's leadership. It's pretty damned baffling, and disgraceful. I'm sick of being told that I'm not a party loyalist, when it's the leaders who have abandoned US!!! They don't do our bidding. They aren't interested in us. When are some people around here going to get it through their heads that Pelosi, Hoyer Conyers, Reid and many others are NOT our friends! I will add Hillary, Edwards, and anyone else that had a hand in this war, the Patriot Act, and a hand in whatever complicity took place to allow this goddam evil administration to do whatever the hell it has wanted to do.

I read a post where someone said we were too quick to judge. I've given these assholes a year, and the beat down goes on. Fuck this! More than a few posters have said that it's "dem bashing," and that the real enemy is Bush. Of fucking course it is Bush, but now we can lump some of our own leaders in, as well.

How much more collusion are you willing to take, before you get out of your fucking party loyalty mode and realize that we've been sold down the river, lock, stock and barrel, while our country's young and even middle aged are continuing to be sent off to die in vain? While our leaders keep wiping their asses with the constitution? How much more?

[The_Casual_Observer]

1. So who are your friends?

Ralph Nader? Mumia? Santa Claus?

[Swamp Rat]

23. What's wrong with Santa Claus?

[12string]

29. Whats wrong with Santa Claus

Well Arlo Guthrie pointed out in his song"A Pause for
Mister Claus"...      Santa Claus wears a red suit,he's a
communist.Long hair and a beard,must be a pacifist.What's in
the pipe that he's smoking? Mr.Claus sneaks in your house at
night.He must be a dope fiend to put you uptight.Oh,why do
police guys beat on peace guys?

[Joe Fields]

47. I haven't heard that one in a long time. Thanks.

[liberalmuse]

2. I'm feeling a bit put out as well, and I'm so with you.

I'll be damned if I'm going to defend my liberalism here. I know how to separate propaganda from facts, but apparently am also "too quick to judge" with a "lynch-mob mentality" because there are actually valid excuses for keeping silent when you know your government is carrying out a policy of torture, and they are as follows: "It was just after 9/ll." "Pelosi was sworn to secrecy." "The story might be true, but if you let it distract you, then you are letting yourself be duped." Hmmm, just who is letting themselves be duped here? Not me, and certainly not you.

[tavalon]

32. Me three

I'm so liberal it's scary but I'm not stupid. Yes, we've been sold down the river. The frustrating thing is that I don't see any way to pull a win out of the lose/lose situation these folks have put us in.

[Toots]

41. And they know that, Hell they even smirk about it

Who ya going to vote for a Republican? Ha Ha Ha They have us by the short hairs and there is absolutely nothing anyone can do except round up some Primary challengers such as Cindy Shehan and at least put a little scare into them. I can only hope and pray that Cindy defeats Peloisi and that will knock some of them off that huge pedestal they have placed themselves upon.

[Joe Fields]

44. It really is the only way that the people can take their party back.

I do not have to agree 100% with a candidates views, as long as I know that they understand that they work for us, and have the best interest of this country at heart. (and that does not mean corporate interest.)

[harmonicon]

112. it's crazy that it's come to this, isn't it?

When what we're asking for isn't candidates that we agree with 100%, but candidates who are honest and at least think that what they're doing (though individuals may disagree with them) is best for us as a nation. I would like to think that that should be the minimum needed, but now what should be the bare minimum seems like a far off dream.

[tom_paine]

120. I am sorry I got so angry with you on that other thread. I agree with you 100% on this one.

I just don't like those short, declarative "fact-free" attacking statements,and yes they are favored by Bushies which is why I don't like them.

And yes, the bare minimum IS a far-off dream, sadly.

[harmonicon]

122. get angry - no worries

we ought to be getting angry about these sorts of things. I think who we elect and standards we set are really important. Remember people saying how alike Bush and Gore were in 2000? No one seemed to really care, and it was all about "likability" and who's southern accent was more "real".... If only people had gotten this impassioned back then.....

[tom_paine]

123. I have been so angry for so long, it's amazing my ticker hasn't burst.

No shortage of that emotion, not for at leats seven years and possibly nine.

I won't say I saw exactly was going on, and I won't say I came anywhere near realizing the scope and reality of what Sen. Clinton termed "The Vast Right-Wing Conspiracy" and it's multiple-front assault on media integrity and every aspect of the System of Checks and Balances.

But I smelled something wrong, as it were. I remember saying over and over to anyone who would listen in 1998-9, "There is something wrong with how this is playing out. It doesn't feel like how a Free Country would act or react. It feels like an episode of 'I, Claudius'." (which is you haven't seen it yet, do so...it is a very useful thing, espcially since it is intertwined with the true events of Roman History, for understanding evil Bushies, as is anything written about Hitler and the Nazis)

I had no idea how deeply in danger we all were, even then, but I knew something had gone horribly wrong with how our top level of nationl government shold work.

And there was definitely the feeling of power slipping away from the American People, which we gavce up as easily as taking candy from a baby.

If I didn't love America, the Founding Fathers, the Constitution and Bill of Rights so much, I wouldn't be so angry. Even now, I am nopt sure I would trade those things for peace of mind.

And anyway, in this pre-Nazi-like state we live in, peace of mind can rapidly become the peace of the grave. I hope I am wrong about that, but the evidence is mounting.

[rhett o rick]

79. The trouble is Nancy will have all the big money and the Democratic Party behind her. That will be

tough to overcome. Lamont managed it because of his personal fortune, but he still lost the general.

[Joe Fields]

83. True, and yes, nearly impossible to overcome. Yet, there could

just be such a groundswell, perhaps even a tidalwave of dissatisfaction and disgust focused against Pelosi that a Sheehan could still carry off a victory.

Not out of the realm of possibility.

[man4allcats]

103. Unfortunately, with the notable exception of Dennis Kucinich,

the Democrats are the Republicans. They're just the lite version, but like lite beer, they're just as toxic to the system as the non-lite version. I also must agree with the OP. We are truly screwed and have been for some time now. I am reminded of the good Dr. Franklin's reply to a Mrs. Powel at the close of the Constitutional Convention in 1787. She asked Franklin, “Well, Doctor, what have we got—a Republic or a Monarchy?” Franklin's reply: “A Republic, if you can keep it.” Sadly, it looks like we didn't.

[Joe Fields]

109. That particular exchange rattles around in my head.

I can only imagine what kind of conversations the framers of our constitution would be having right now, were they here to witness what is happening.

[tom_paine]

119. They wouldn't be having them. They'd be in solitary confiement with goggles and earmuffs

being driven slowly and perhaps no so slowly insane by their Bushie captors.

For I have no doubt that our modern Bushies, if they did know know their names (if they were not famous people from American History), would view them as a terroristic threat unparalleled.

Escpecially when you consider the Founding Fathers would have been organizing revolution against these Bushie Tyrants long ago, which would have made them Jose Padilla in the eyes of the Bushies.

Benjamin Franklin...died while under "extreme questioning".
Thomas Jefferson...shot while trying to escape
George Washington...driven so mad by years of solitary confinement (even when his wooden teeth were repaired, he was kept sensory-deprived) that he now identifies with his captors, and tyrants everywhere. Joins the Ayn Rand/Leo Strauss discussion group at Free Republic upon his release.

:puke:

[MonkeyFunk]

3. then leave the fucking party

I'm sick of people like you who don't understand the first thing about politics.

[Hannah Bell]

4. please

explain.

[Name removed]

8. Deleted sub-thread

Sub-thread removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Joe Fields]

5. I don't have to leave the party. The party has left me.

You just go on and be an apologist all you want. As for politics, I've probably forgotten more than you will ever learn. You need to get your head out of the sand.

[TheWatcher]

26. His head is in a far darker place I am afraid.

[Whisp]

89. a wrinkled edge with a puce hue? n/t

[IronLionZion]

53. That's what Reagan and Zell Miller said. nt

[Joe Fields]

55. Are you denying that our party leadership has abandoned us?

And while yes, it bothers me that Readan said something very similar over forty years ago, no truer words were spoken today, concerning this very topic.

And so your point is.....?

[IronLionZion]

56. See post 54 nt

[mikehiggins]

6. politics?

What is the point of "winning" if all you do is secure a sinecure for your own personal benefit? The "incumbents club" which includes almost all senators and representatives basically operates to preserve themselves in power, regardless of what it takes.

Where is the "leadership" in that situation? I'm not referring to the professional pols who serve multiple terms inside the Beltway, when they aren't working for the K Street lobbyists. I'm referring to people who have real principles, and who are willing to go to the wall for them.

Other than Dennis, and a handful of others only generously considered loons, who fits that bill? The problem is that it is just that which voters going to the polls in 2008 will be looking for, and the GOP is more than happy to spin any sort of lie and deception to present themselves as just such people.

ANd the Dems...? They just want to make a deal...

[liberalmuse]

11. I'm sick of people...

who use idiotic, insulting, numbnut slogans as a snide dismissal to those who disagree with their worldview. I blame tv commercials. They've dumbed-down Americans to the point where they actually believe the solution to all ones problems is miraculously revealed in a 20-second spot. Any problem more complex than that is simply mind-blowing and does not compute. Bill Maher is right. Some people just can't wrap their minds around the fact that a person can hold two opposing ideas in their heads at the same time, so all they can do is say something stupid like, "Get over it" or, "If you don't like it, leave". To choose the path of least resistance, rather than the unlimited potential the mind is capable of is such a waste. It is actually possible for me to be unhappy, angry and even disgusted with the behavior of some of my representatives, yet still be a loyal, die-hard Democrat/liberal. And I'll stay here and fight, thank you. This is no less my party, and my country than it is yours. But if that is too much for you, here's a one-liner. Piss off!

[Faux pas]

16. !!

:applause: that's me screaming BRAVO!

[Swamp Rat]

24. LOL!

:rofl:

[tavalon]

34. Yep, it's even more frustrating when fellow DUers

use such silly tactics than when Freepers do. We don't expect much from them.

[TheWatcher]

25. I'm sick of people like you who respond to anyone who dares question the Democratic Leadership

With nothing but personal and ad hominem attacks.

You claim we don't understand anything about politics, yet you have nothing to offer in the way of intelligent debate.

As far as your not so subtle invitation to leave the party, Go Fuck Yourself.

Tell you what tough guy, MAKE US leave the party.

Until then, throw your angry three-year old act at someone else.

[H2O Man]

36. Well said.

The democratic party isn't just a handful of politicians from Washington, DC. It's also the hard working grass-roots level democrats. If they are feeling the type of frustration expressed in the OP, the politicians in the plush offices in DC -- and they yappy little lap dogs -- should listen carefully.

[tom_paine]

64. Very well said, TheWatcher, so very well said.

[rhett o rick]

81. Well said. Both the poster and the rabid responder are showing signs of frustration.

The poster gave a good rant. But left out any suggestions as to what to do about it. Make a suggestion, please, even if you think full out rev ol ution is in order. Ranting can be polarizing and we need unity to fix this problem. We have a hard enough time fighting the gullibles, the ignorants and the apathetics without turning on our own.

And you mr. Monkeyfuck, what are you bringing to the table but derision. How well need we "know politics" to know that we are loosing our freedoms, our jobs, our children's health, and our country. Lot's of people that don't no "stuff" about politics voted in 2006 to give Democrats power in the Senate and HOR. Per the Polls many feel betrayed.

And to all of you, please have a good holidays and a Merry Christmas.

[Joe Fields]

84. I suppose I should just automatically post my suggestions, along

with each rant. Sorry. I've given suggestions in past threads, and although I must admit, other than the ineffective letter writing, phone calls and petition campaigns I regularly commit, there is not much, in the immediate that can be done, except rant on. Hopefully, if enough of us pick up our pitchforks and scream out, our leaders may just hear us. But I doubt it. Still, no one should be satisfied with the acquiescent and collusional behavior of our dem leaders. They have abandoned us, abandoned their oath of office, and it is traitorous.

Suggestions to build us up as a force within the party, for the future?

Liberal blogs need to band together as one voice on specific all-important issues. Coordinated letter campaigns with members of the entire left blogging and message board community would sent a chill through the dem leadership. Same with phone calls to dem leader offices. Can you imagine the impact of thousands of letters arriving at Pelosi's, Conyers, Hoyer's or Reid's offices on the SAME DAY? Or Thousands of phone calls clogging the switchboards all on the SAME DAY?

We could eventually become a force to be reckoned with, creating PAC's and 527's. That is something that politicians also understand. We need to take pages straight out of the religious right's playbook and utilize their tactics, just as they did to the republicans.

No one will ever listen to us or take our issues to heart, until we force them to.

Now those are a few suggestions. Lastly, I would just say that IMO, we should all be ranting as progressives. I don't take being cheated and lied to very kindly.

[Whisp]

90. I like the idea of thousands of faxes better...

unwanted faxes annoy me far more than letters or emails. ;)

[rhett o rick]

124. Agree, and I must say I have done my share of ranting w/o providing any suggestions. nm

[nashville_brook]

126. whoa! this is my all-time favorite post!

well said.

[rhett o rick]

88. All bow down to the great "MonkeyFuck". He who knows all about politics.

Please give us the benefit of your wisdom, may I call you Monkey or will it be Mr. Fuck? What's to understand about politics it's run by politicians. Need I say more? I see you support HRC. Why am I not surprised?

[slowry]

93. "Then leave the fucking party" sounds like "then leave the fucking country"; same attitude n/t

[Lerkfish]

101. yeah, like voters. what right do they have to have access to politics?

I mean, sheesh, its like they think the country belongs to them or something.
or like they the party should listen to THEM instead of beltway analysts and think tanks.

I mean, c'mon, what do you think we're running here? a representative democracy?

as if!

[Arugula Latte]

7. I agree. We are being played like fiddles.

As another poster said, we were actually picked up by the proverbial Death Cab when the so-called "Democrats" took over in '06. We thought the driver would carry us to safety. Instead, the doors of the cab locked menacingly ...

[Joe Fields]

9. I read that post. Very aptly put.

[sandnsea]

10. It's a pretty big goddamn mess

I honestly don't know how we're going to get it all sorted out. I know there are those in the Dem leadership who are totally fucked up. I don't know if they're in collusion or just misguided, but they quit being on my side a long time ago. They're better than Republicans on a few social and economic issues that will basically keep the poor from and minorities from rioting. Otherwise, they don't give a shit about anything except power. I don't know if Obama or Edwards is different or not. I do know the rest aren't. I don't know what is going on or what to do about it, but if something doesn't change soon this country is going to implode and then explode. Something better give soon.

[tavalon]

35. You are so right

We're near the boiling point and most don't even notice.

[southerncrone]

87. Isn't it sad when all we can say about our party is

"it's better than the Republicans"?!?

We are in a tremendous mess. I don't see how we can get out of it.

Others here have suggested starting a new Progressive Party, since we have been left on the side of the road by the "Democrats" of today. Maybe that is our only solution. I don't know? :shrug:

[grasswire]

12. I'm sick of.......

...people who are either so naive or so judgmental that they trust a known lying news corporation so much more than their own fellow Democrats -- they trust the unsourced story more than they trust their own fellow Democrats and are willing to imprison the Speaker of the House on charges of treason and crimes against humanity on the basis of the one unsourced story from known liars and carriers of propaganda.

That's what totalitarian governments do. Eliminate the opposition through propaganda and show trials.

America is better than that. We can repudiate torture AND also allow our Speaker to explain herself to the extent the law allows. We can wait for evidence. We can be calm. We can refuse to be dupes.

[Joe Fields]

14. You'd better stock up on rolaids.

[tom_paine]

66. He should buy 'em by the truckload. As if this one torture story is the sole source

of people's dissatisfaction.

:silly: :silly:

Nicely written rant, Joe. I concur 100%.

[Truth2Tell]

61. This guy agrees with you...

...

[JFN1]

13. Keeping it real

Thanks for a great post.

[donheld]

15. I'm sorry but I cannot be a party loyalist

If the party abandons the principles that drew me to the party in the first place then how the hell can I be expected to remain loyal?

[Faux pas]

17. Kicking and Recommending In Total Agreement!

:kick:

[Le Taz Hot]

18. Joe, a WHOLE lot of us

are where you are. I've a feeling that the Party-before-Country crowd has their ego so wrapped up in their party and/or their candidate that they refuse to take the blinders off because it would mean they've been wrong all this time and admitting that would be a terrible blow. Personally, my introduction to politics was during the Nixon administration so I was jaded from the beginning ;) . Welcome to the fold, friend, we are legion.

[TheWatcher]

27. It's like people are SO desparate to see their "Football Team" Win again

That they are willing to ignore and excuse anything at any cost, just so they can feel good and feel powerful about their Party again.

People need to take the blinders off and understand this is no longer about Party, it is about We The People. We need leadership that understands that they work for and represent US. Our voices are being ignored and our leadership is no longer doing it's job.

[tom_paine]

69. Funny you should mention that...

http://www.amazon.com/Defying-Hitler-Memoir-Sebastian-Haffner/dp/0312421133/ref=pd_bbs_2?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1197208607&sr=8-2

[harmonicon]

116. but we won't win the south unless we bring back jim crow!!

how are we supposed to accomplish anything if we can't get elected? The south will love us with we bring back Jim Crow laws!! ergo, the best way to fight for civil rights is to bring back Jim Crow!

The number of times I've seen more-or-less that exact same logic on here baffles me.

[Joe Fields]

39. It's a sad club to be in, my friend, but we may be on the brink, as our

numbers grow, of actually forcing our leaders to listen to us. I can't give up. I have nowhere else to go, and somehow we have got to band together.

[RiverStone]

57. glad your not giving up

Yes, somehow we have to band together!

I agree with you about the complicit bullshit on The Hill. Pelosi and Reid are weak and impotent leaders. Why can't we get someone like Russ Feingold or DK into a power post? They would not marginalize our vote like Nancy and Harry have!

That being said, we have SCOTUS on the line next year --- so even rethug-lite Hillary would be an improvement over anyone in the pukes field, yet I don't think she will be our nominee anyway...

Being part of the solution means not giving up and still voting in opposition of the rethug regime next fall. Rant away!!!! Just hang with the battle. I get annoyed at those who whine and then say fuck all of it - I'm moving to Canada. By all means, move I say - but don't waste DU bandwidth if your gonna JUST bitch.

Appreciate your feelings Joe - keep articulating them! :hi:

[tom_paine]

70. Try this for what ails ya' Joe.

Maybe it's just another placebo, but Naomi Wolf is one of the organizers and "The End of America" is about as cogent and reasonable explanation as we could have, so maybe this will work.

http://www.americanfreedomcampaign.org/

[Joe Fields]

71. Thank you, Tom. I am anxious to read Naomi's book.

I have it on good authority I will get it for Christmas.

[tom_paine]

73. Then DO NOT click on my signature YouTube link.

Don't want to spoil your Week After Christmas by tipping the plot (can a book which accuretly describes a phenomena be said to have a "plot"...oh well, whatever).

[Joe Fields]

76. Thank you for the warning.

:toast:

[DeanDem10]

46. All we can do is figure out how to make a difference in some way

It may sound corny, but all we can do is find some way that makes sense for us to contribute. And some way that doesn't go against the grain. I do understand. I hit a wall when our illustrious Congress censured Moveon.org (of which I am a member), neve mind that Moveon saved a Democratic presidency, supported Al Gore, and had the courage to oppose the war when we needed it to be opposed (before, not after the fact).

I figured I couldnt' do GOTV for those condemning me. So, I am temporarily done with retail politics (phoning and canvassing) for reps who don't represent. For me it takes everything I have to do those two things. I simply hate them. And the only way I can do them is when I feel so strongly about the issues or a candidate that I can compensate for how hard it is for me. It's easy for those in high places or who have salaries to underestimate how hard the nuts and bolts down in the trenches part is. WE do it for free. And it is simply no fun. So, when our side of the aisle craps on us, we are hardly going to wipe ourselves off and keep on canvassing.

The truth is I quit my county committee seat over this several months ago. But there is always something I can do. And giving up on at least doing SOMETHING is like a part of an activist dying. (Not an option!)

There is always a way to make a difference, even and especially, in progressive politics.

[Joe Fields]

48. Very true. I am working to get Kucinich nominate. I also would like to

work on getting a progressive coalition together, one strong enough to force the democratic leadership to pay attention. But with democrats, it is easier said than done.

[Dont_Bogart_the_Pretzel]

19. I don't think his numbers are in the ten, let alone 25%.

Those thugs who are squatting in our white house keeps changing/tweaking the rules on how they get the poll numbers. I keep hoping they will run out of game changes but "someone" at the top don't want Bush of his administration to look bad.

[OneBlueSky]

20. "the real enemy is Bush" . . .

and Bush wouldn't be anywhere near as powerful as he is today without his Congressional enablers -- particularly the Democrats . . . whatever happened to the notion of an opposition party? . . .

[tecelote]

21. DU is getting worse by the day.

Critical thinking and questioning authority has always been something we liberals have been proud of. Now, we're seeing people attack others here without any critical thought.

I've always thought that the difference between the right and the left is that the right believes what they are told and they remain loyal to it no matter what. The left, on the other hand, has to hash it out and discuss alternatives before making personal decisions. It makes the left look less loyal and not as cohesive. But, the truth is, it makes for better solutions and a better America. It is about personal freedom and it is what America was founded on.

DU members need to have more respect for opinions that differ from their own. Once we all agree, we are no better than the Republicans.

If people are willing to leave the Democratic party, for any reason, I praise them for their critical thinking no matter what the issue is and I praise them for being independent enough to send the party a wake up call.

Here's to you!

[Hydra]

49. You're right

but I understand why the split is occurring, and I expected it to happen sooner over the issue of impeachment.

This is perhaps the perfect issue for such a split, though. Did our leadership give a silent go-ahead to torture?

If they did, the only people who will defend them are the die-hard "party loyalists"

[Swamp Rat]

22. "when it's the leaders who have abandoned US!!!"

:thumbsup:

[Kurovski]

28. K&R. (nt)

[cali]

30. That's your pov

and you're certainly entitled to it. I'm unhappy with the party leadership, but I believe the Democratic party is the only viable hope for changing the disasterous course this country is on. And that opinion doesn't make me any less of a critical thinker or any less informed than you. If there was a viable third party, I'd enthusiastically support it, but there isn't- at least not nationally. I suggest that you work toward building one in your state.

And perhaps, as you consider it all so hopeless and the democratic party as bad as the repukes, and have no suggestions for how to move forward, you're just banging your head against a stone wall by being involved on a board dedicated to electing dem candidates.

[Joe Fields]

40. Wow! You don't even understand where I am coming from.

I said nothing about leaving the democratic party. And in numerous threadsI have offered suggestions as to how we can band together and force the leadership to pay attention to us, but my advice seems to have fallen on deaf ears.

Cali, I know you have a mind of your own, but the sooner you realize that, just because they have a D by their name, it doesn't mean they are working for us or against the Bush administration. And the sooner we deal with THAT problem, then the healthier our party will be. Right now, it's rotting from the top down.

[cali]

43. Wow. You completely missed the boat re my post.

I never said that because someone has a D by their name that they're working for us or against bushco. In fact, I've repeatedly stressed that party affiliation is no guarantee that an elected official is working for the best interests of the public or working against bushco. You deliberately mischaracterized my post. I have never blindly stood up for all dems. What's more, I often vote for Progressive party members in local elections, and have long worked to build that third party here in VT.

Nor did I say you said anything about leaving the party, but if you see it as so completely corrupted, I wonder that you stay. And I'm afraid I don't read all your threads, but I have never seen you suggest anything workable regarding reforming the party. You know what's workable? Reforming the party from the bottom up. You know what isn't? Demanding Nancy Pelosi step down as ML. Fantasies may reassure some people. They just make me impatient.

[Joe Fields]

45. I think that discourse, at this stage, has to move beyond the

"well, I'm disappointed with Pelosi, but what can she do? Her hands are tied." level.

But that's just me.

Keep on making excuses, while our leaders keep on keeping on. Nothing like getting Bushwhacked by leaders of your own party.

[Perry Logan]

31. He has 25% approval because naive people--like you--believe the mainstream media.

"President Bush's success rating in the Democratic-controlled House has fallen this year to a half-century low, and he prevailed on only 14 percent of the 76 roll call votes on which he took a clear position.

"So far this year, Democrats have backed the majority position of their caucus 91 percent of the time on average on such votes. That marks the highest Democratic unity score in 51 years."
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=389&topic_id=1728952&mesg_id=1728952
http://public.cq.com/docs/cqt/news110-000002576765.html

Don't let the media rhetoric fool you. The Democrats have acquitted themselves quite well--especially given their bare majority in both houses, and a relentlessly obstructionist Republican minority.

this 110th Congress has had more roll call votes this year than any
other Congress in history, almost doubling the number under the previous Congress overseen by Boehner
and House Speaker Dennis Hastert (R-IL):
The House last week held its 943rd roll call vote of the year, breaking the previous
record of 942 votes, a mark set in 1978. The vote was on a procedural motion related to a
mortgage foreclosure bill. When the House adjourned on Oct. 4 for the long weekend, the
chamber had reached 948 roll call votes, putting Democrats on pace to easily eclipse 1,000
votes on the House floor in 2007.
Last year, the Republican controlled House held 543 votes, and for historical comparison,
the last time there was a shift in power in Congress, Republicans held 885 roll call votes in
1995. The Senate, which has held 363 votes this year, isn’t on pace to break any
records, but has already surpassed the 2006 Senate mark of 279 votes.
Much of the lack of progress can be traced back to obstructionism by conservatives. Approximately “1 in
6 roll-call votes in the Senate this year have been cloture votes,” noted a JulyMcClatchy report. “If this
pace of blocking legislation continues, this 110th Congress will be on track to roughly triple the previous
record number of cloture votes.”
It’s interesting that Boehner is criticizing the 110th Congress as doing nothing. After all, the House, under
his leadership, met for just 101 days during the second session of the 109th Congress, setting the record
“for the fewest days in session in one year since the end ofWorld War II.”

[Joe Fields]

50. Yes, and they have hundreds of investigations and hearings going on, as well.

But what does it translate into, Perry? Nothing. They can have as many roll call votes as they want, and it won't matter, if they are voting on things, such as "National Native American Day," which is all well and good, but not quite why we voted them into power.

No, on the things that really matter, like this war, which just a small percentage of Americans support, wiretapping, U.S. Attorneys, war funding, torture, accountability,you name it; on the things that really matter, our leadership has caved every step of the way.

And I haven't even mentioned impeachment, which is CRIMINAL, in and of itself, that it isn't even on the table.

I may be a lot of things, Perry, but naive isn't one of them, nor am I an apologist for a collusive opposition leadership.

I am a pissed off American, who knows when he has been sold out. I've paid my dues as an American, and especially as a Democrat, and refuse to look the other way when my leadership doesn't protect my interests.

[salib]

105. So, what you are saying is that there is more party unity?

Did I get that right?

What does that have to do with the gist of the OP or the discussion?

[flashl]

33. Do anybody here connects to what this guy is saying?

You Won--Now What?: How Americans Can Make Democracy Work from City Hall to the White House

"Americans entrust their government to novices," Riback and Goddard remind us. "Every November they elect a bunch of people who have never done this before." You Won, Now What? offers practical tips on the task of governance, drawing upon real-life examples to illustrate how elected officials can do an effective job in their first--and in some ways most critical--days on the job."

[Echo In Light]

37. The phony {supposed} "left" in the U.S. is every bit as brainwashed as the real Right

[KharmaTrain]

38. What Else Do They Have???

The other day I watched a chat where a couple of Freeper asshats were going at it...every talking point under the sun was thrown around, not a single fact or any sense of either reality or remorse. What made this chat fun was one was a Romney supporter, the other loves Rudy and they were going at it like there was no tomorrow. It was both scary and funny to see how simple their "arguments" were and how knee-jerk their answers were...any and all problems were the cause of "socialist" Democrats and how the poor white christian male is being persecuted. There wasn't a name they would't throw...Michael Moore, Nancy Pelosi, Sandy Berger...even Ward Churchill (:wtf:)

These are people who need certainty in their worlds...the live and think in absolutes...black and whites. They're only right and all else is wrong...and anyone who tells them they're wrong is either a "commie" or "just doesn't get it". They like the comfort of "feeling superior" and "in control"...and that their "devotion" to booosh and their corrupt party is their demonstration of their resolve. If the truth doesn't match their reality...change the truth and distort the reality. Many of these people are too far gone now to even realize how taken they've been or how screwed up they are. It's a club of both denial and co-dependency.

Thank goodness Democrats aren't like that. While I don't approve of thinks party leadership have done or the votes or agendas of specific members, I do respect the party's diversity. It's where enlightened people are...where people aren't afraid of the truth or being responsible. The day this party becomes a mirror image of the GOOP is the day I become an independent. For all its worts, Democrats still represent the widest range of thought and interests of America.

[opihimoimoi]

51. Sending Fine Wine and a LUAU to you.... Bravo....

[Tuesday Afternoon]

42. Pass the toilet paper

signed: wide stance Larry Craig

[Javaman]

52. Thank you :)

I don't know if your post is in anyway a reference to my op:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=389&topic_id=2437297&mesg_id=2437297

But thank you never the less. :)

[Joe Fields]

75. It is definitely in conjunction with your thread, AND a continuation

of my own clarion call, which I have trumpeting for quite some time. Thank you for speaking out. More of us definitely need to do that. They will never pay attention to us, unless they are forced to do so.

[Javaman]

78. It can be frustrating...

regardless of party, there are some that will click their heels and fall in line no matter what.

I just find it interesting that so many people are still willing to take things on blind faith with everything this country has been through these last 7 years.

It's more important now than ever before to question the democratic leaders now that they are supposedly in charge. Some people just don't get that.

[IronLionZion]

54. Joe, what do you want and what are YOU doing to get it?

Please do tell.

And don't speak for me. I'm happy as a pig in mud at how much our Dems have accomplished this year: lobbying reform, minimum wage, student loans, pay as you go, 9/11 recommendations, stem cell research, lower medicare drug prices, ending oil subsidies, healthcare for wounded soldiers and veterans, national guard funding, benchmarks for Iraq, eliminating pork-barrel earmarks, increased funding for education and healthcare, investing in science research, Katrina rebuilding, etc. Yeah, you mentioned US attorneys. The Dems enacted US Attorney reform just this year to ensure that temporary ones are not appointed for life and that the Senate does have power in selection. But you would have us believe they didn't do it!

How many times did our Dems try to end the war? Are you forgetting how many times they tried but failed to over-ride Bush's veto, or that Lieberman (the independent who gives us a majority on procedural votes) is for the war? Increase the majority or elect a Dem president and we will have an end to this disaster.

If you're not happy, then what are you doing about it? Have you considered running for office? The elected Dems you despise so much have all run for office and won.

The corporate/republican media are the ones saying the Dems aren't doing anything or accomplishing our goals.

[Joe Fields]

59. The "we don't have enough votes" mantra wears thin.

I'm old enough to remember when there was actual bi-partisanship in congress, and influential leaders held the power of persuasion, and were able to get enough votes to get things done. There is little to none of that in Washington these days, because politicians take up positions and posture them through the media.

Many of the things you have described, that you claim to be "happy as a pig in shit" about still have yet to be accomplished. It is not enough to vote for something, just to have the president override it. It accomplishes nothing. And rarely does either party recieve a super majority in congress. A few things, such as lobby reform and minimum wage were a slam dunk, because of scandal, and because the minimum wage bill was hidden inside a war funding bill, which made it easier for Bush to swallow. But, as I said, many other things that you mentioned still have not come to pass.

What do I want? It's simple. Democracy restored. Checks and balances restored. REAL oversight restored. Accountability restored. Transparency, in regard to the conduct of our nation's business. Restoration of our constitutional rights. All pretty basic stuff, really.

I'm amazed at how little time it takes to destroy a democracy. Seven short years. How can it take so little time? Only if those who are sworn in to protect and defend the constitution of the United States neglect to do so. And that is where we are today. Well, at least one of us is happy.

[redqueen]

67. Lobbying reform?

Are you joking?

I didn't read any further than 'lobbying reform'. At that point I figured you surely must be joking so I stopped reading there.

[IronLionZion]

72. Here you go redqueen

http://www.opencongress.org/articles/view/302-Hooray-

[redqueen]

74. Oh I know it's a real thing, and that it's "a step in the right direction"

it's a pathetic step, with loopholes ready to be exploited.

"Accidentally" I'm sure.

[debbierlus]

58. It is an awakening process - A perception change & it is why Gore woudn't run

Ultimately, people must awaken to the reality of the political system in America, THEN the change can occur.

Every day I see posts on this board with a 'final straw' story. Pelosi not protesting torture. The dems giving Bush the
power to spy on Americans. The refusal of the dems to untie against filibustering Alito.

One by one by one....People are waking up. Change happens slowly, & it often takes a crisis to hasten it. There is nothing new under the sun, however, & the pace of realization is actually occurring rather quickly. The problem is that man has created problems lethal to the survival of humanity at large. We do not have the luxury of time, as we have throughout human history. Global warming & the annihilation of all life on earth through nuclear war are at our throats.

'We have far to go quickly'....Al Gore

[Joe Fields]

63. I am convinced this is why Gore didn't run.

We have to empower ourselves first.

[Hell Hath No Fury]

60. I know...

exactly what you mean. Seeing so many of the excuses, rationalizations, spin attempts on bad behavior by various Dems on a variety of issues is a bit disgusting. More "keep your powder dry" bullshit, IMO. My motto is: if I am pissed off at a GOPer doing it, I am going to be DOUBLY pised off if a Dem is involved.

It is beyond dangerous when "party loyalty" becomes "party blindness". :(

To say I have been let-down repeatly by the party as a whole the last six+ years is an understatement. There have been many steller individuals who have continued to do the right thing, but far too many have been too cowardly, too concerned with political ambitions, and too actively complicit with the Bush crowd for my taste.

In defending the indefensible, so many here say things like, "But the Dems weren't in power!", or, "Remember the times -- everyone supported Bush, Dems couldn't have spoken out, it was too risky!", or, the new one, "They couldn't say anything because the info was super secret!" (Yeah, tell that to Danial Elsberg. :eyes:)

And if you challenge that line, you are "immature", "politically naive", or a "Naderite".


Well, Bull. Fucking. Shit, I say.

Try to sell that story to every Dem who stood up at the risky/dangerous times to tell the damn truth.

Try to sell that story to every member of the intelligence community
who leaked classified information in an attempt to stop two illegal wars.

Try to sell that story to every intel officer, military leader, and administrative worker who would rather walk away from their jobs before they would participate in Bush's lies.

Try to sell that story to every person who spoke on background to investigative journalists like Seymore Hersh, the Guardian UK, and Paul Krugman.

Try to sell that story to the young, Army man who handled over the CD of Abu Ghraib torture photos.

Try to sell that story to David Kelly, a man who paid the ultimate price for being a truthteller.


Leadership -- TRUE LEADERSHIP -- is doing what is right in the face of any obstacle, especially, when it is dangerous, unpopular, or you could pay a high price politically.

Sadly, too few of our Democratic representatives have shown true leadership. :(

[Joe Fields]

68. Well said!

[Whisp]

94. Hell, I do like that Fury of yours. great post...

lots of great speakers here. I feel a bit better after wanting to cry here earlier today.

;)

[tom_paine]

62. How much more? An apparently endless supply. K & R

It takes all kinds to make a world. In a strong, healthy democartic-republic with an vigorous, independent Free-Press, such divisons would not exist.

We would not need to know, nor ever find out if that person working across from us is the kind of person who would have stayed oblivious while living in the village of Aushwitz, every day cleaning greasy soot off his windows and never wondering where it came form and what it was.

Apparently, in most nations, there are always 10-30% Right-Wing Authoritarians, waiting for their Fuhrer to come along and goose-step those pesky liberals into silence (why are they so silent? don't ask.). And, apparently, there will always be, except for rare and brief periods of history, a vast majority of people who will just go with the flow, wherever it leads.

Again I say, these terrible truths, which the Founding Fathers tried to save us from (and failed, it is now becoming clear) with their brilliant and visionary Constitution and Bill of Rights, would never have needed to become known to any of us if our Republic was strong and free, instead of dying and puking up blood.

You got me going now, and what is amazing is that our shrieking in the wind isn't hyperbole inthe least, though so very many, even here at DU, one of the most conscious sites on the web, will go to their graves withtheir hands over their eyes and their fingers in their ears.

just like before...

http://www.amazon.com/Defying-Hitler-Memoir-Sebastian-Haffner/dp/0312421133/ref=pd_bbs_2?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1197208607&sr=8-2

[Joe Fields]

77. It is frustrating. I have a few family members (brothers and sisters)

that, while they claim to be Democrats, just do not understand, do not WANT to know or understand how high the stakes are, or the unbelievable level of corruption and collusion. They cannot fathom it. Yes, we need a public awakening, from the slumber of our material contentment.

[tom_paine]

80. I have been Paul Revereing almost nonstop to everyone I could reach

for seven plus years.

Friends, family, co-workers, strangers, whoever.

Even the most conscious and historically literate of them, like your relatives, don't want to know.

Who can blame them? If the one unforgivable sin of the old, free American Republic (1776-2000, RIP old friend) was to be a bummer, a downer, then you and I are sinners of the highest magnitude.

For spreading our dreary talk which invites people to think hard (having to think hard, or the promotion of hard thinking,is also a terrible sin) to no good end (as they see it) except more bummer-dreariness, instead of the latest sports scores and whatever else the TV gives us permission to talk about at water cooler and hearth, the punishment is...well I am sure you know what the punishment is.

Quite honestly, "frustrating" is too mild a word by half. Maybe we can contact the Orwellian Bushies to coin a NewSpeak Word for "frustration which accompanies a cataclysm that is obvious to anyone watching, but no one is watching".

Cassandra-ating? The-train-is-coming-to-run-us-over-ated? Whatever. :puke:

How about I-wish-I-could-emigrate-but-I'm-Jewish-and-running-to-Europe-isn't-an-option-ated?

[Joe Fields]

85. LOL!!

How about the "It doesn't matter if we're in the same boat, if it's the Titanic?"

And I get little comfort from being as observant, as curious and as right as I am about these crooks and liars.

You said earlier, if this was a healthy republic, we could then go about our business, and leave the governance of country to those who would honestly protect and defend the constitution.

Would that it could be so.

[redqueen]

65. The bar is set so low now.

It's a sad state of affairs.

And many think things aren't really so bad. Just the same as always. No need to worry. :crazy:

[Joe Fields]

86. For many Americans, as long as they can get that HD T.V., or that

$40,000 car, then everything is rosy.

Torture? They don't se it, so it really doesn't exist.

Wiretapping U.S. citizens? Again, they don't see it, so it just may be a myth that is pushed by the far left.

Illegal war? Well certainly, they think, that if there were any proof, something would have already been done.

And so it goes...

[harmonicon]

118. for many americans on here as well

When I've tried to point out these things, I've basically been told, "Don't blame me, I voted for Kodos". The logic seems to be that your choice is between the worst of the Republican party and the worst of the Democratic party. Suggest that maybe we shouldn't run candidates who aren't slime-bags and get told that you're an idiot, because those people are unelecatble. Certainly a DEMOCRATIC criminal is better than a dirty Republican. I think it's six of one 1/2 dozen of the other.

[tom_paine]

121. Blame me, I voted for Kang!

"Ummm...President Clinton, people are starting to ask why you and Sen. Dole are always holding hands."

"Well, if YOU know any better way to exchange long protein strings, I's like to hear it!"

[ProSense]

82. He has a 25% rating because people are gullible! n/t

[IsItJustMe]

91. More in-breeding goes on in this country than we apparently know about. Just a thought.

[Joe Fields]

92. LOL...yeah.

[FREEWILL56]

111. Either that or they haven't been eating enough smart pills.

You know the ones that little rabbits leave behind.

[Orwellian_Ghost]

95. People

with adolesecent ideological attachments will fight the simple truth you state despite the mountain of evidence that stares them in the face.

K&R

[tucsonlib]

96. A Lot of Truth

..can be found in your post and the comments it generated. But here's another simple truth: The majority of Americans, when questioned, enthusiastically support Dennis Kucinich's platform. But most of these same people bemoan the "fact" that he's "unelectable". If they would simply ignore the pundits, support his candidacy, and vote for him in the primaries, then guess what? He becomes electable! We will have taken our country back! All the despair, shame and fear we've endured will begin transforming into hope, pride and joy. And don't dare call me a dreamer, folks. This is a practical solution to our present-day nightmare. And you all know in your heart that it's true.....

[Joe Fields]

99. IMO, of all the candidates we have, Dennis is the only one

that makes idealogical sense. I am also a Kucinich supporter.

[tucsonlib]

106. Then Joe..

I ask you with the utmost sincerity and humility, why not take your considerable talent as a writer and essayist and compose your masterpiece? It's tempting, God knows, to vent one's anger and frustration at the way things are, and you have a gift for eliciting strong reactions from your readers (As the number and quality of these comments demonstrate). But, as a Kucunich supporter, you know there's a solution. How about an essay that will tap into your readers' long dormant capacities for optimism and activism? Something that will get them off their keisters and away from their TVs to support the one man who can truly make a difference. Think about it, will ya?

[Joe Fields]

110. I can't promise a masterpiece, but I'll try. It's so sad that people look at

Dennis, agree with him, but then say he isn't electable. We have to break through that and help voters trust in him.

[tucsonlib]

117. Thanks, Joe

What the hell, give it a shot. One soul at a time. At the very least you can promise the skeptics that a vote for DK means that the next morning they'll be able to look at themselves in the mirror. And, for once, they can enter the voting booth wearing a grin - not having to settle for the lesser of several evils.....

[FREEWILL56]

113. Unelectable? When I'm confronted with that assinine statement I

say I thought bush was unelectable and we've been stuck with his sorry ass for 2 terms now. Vote your conscience and not the msm pushes.

[roxnev]

97. Now you know

How many republicans are stupid and rich. 25%

[FREEWILL56]

114. No that's 1% for the filthy rich and 24% stupid robots.

[Thommy Bhoy]

98. No Loyal Opposition

I agree with Citizen Joe Fields but would take things a little further. Democracy has always been an illusion. It's "presence" in our society is based solely on the amount of horse shit a society is prepared to swallow about itself from a military industrial complex owned media. We had a short period in the sixties when freedom of expression seemed on the rise, Mario Savio et al. Then the government decided, we can't have any of this intellectual shit let's get them stoned and they sent drugs into our neighborhoods and voila who gives a shit. We have and always will have, a ruling class that civilized societies used to call gangs that we now call Government, and if we're not careful they can disappear you at any time and who is going to say a fucking thing about it?

[ooglymoogly]

100. I'm with you on this

None of this go along to get along shit. We must not support people who are voting puke. To many innocent people are dying and our constitution is at stake. We have to call em out and yell traitor and point at them until they change or resign. I don't get the folks on DU who are always defending the traitors who are destroying the reputation of the democratic party and making Bi partisan very suspect. Edwards is right when he says you cant replace a bunch of corporate republicans with a bunch of corporate democrats and expect things to change which is the present state of affairs.

[Just-plain-Kathy]

102. Wanted to recommend you post but it's over 24 hours old.

It's straight on.

[Joe Fields]

104. Thank you. It does no one any good to ignore the truth.

Yeah, I posted this thread about this time last night.

[FREEWILL56]

115. You have just hit on the problem as people are in a state of denial

making them prone to the lies they want to believe.

[bbgrunt]

107. kick, but too late to rec. I feel exactly the same--but

like others have pointed out, there are just too many who are complacent in their ignorance. They don't WANT to know because knowing would be psychologically devastating and depressing since they don't know what they could do to help right the ship. They just have too many other priorities.

Now we know what it was like to be part of a society that preferred a mass delusion (Deutschland) and now we know what it is like to be part of a society that really has a secret death wish.

[Voice for Peace]

108. Refreshing! Thank you!

[Whisp]

125. can't lose this one just yet. kick.