A question for all DU'ers about claims of racism, sexism, and homophobia.

[Writer]

I wanted to introduce what might be a sensitive topic for some. I humbly ask that anyone responding to this thread do so with some discretion, and I want anyone responding to understand that I'm writing this with only the best of intentions, as this is simply an inquiry. I don't want to further the many flame wars I'm reading in here about racial issues related to the election.

Every time I read a comment from a DU'er claiming something is "racist," "sexist," or "homophobic," I ask if that person is a member of the community that has been allegedly offended. I do this because I wonder if the person truly has an understanding of what constitutes racism, sexism, or homophobia according to the real experiences of the people in question. Perhaps one can argue that some examples are glaringly obvious; however, I wonder if all members of the community in question would agree with that assessment.

What is racism?

What is sexism?

What is homophobia?

So here is my question to DU'ers who are an ethnic minority, female, or part of the GLBT community: What do you think when a white, male, or straight DU'er speaks up on behalf of your community? Do you feel empowered or do you feel condescended to? What are your thoughts about this?

I'm not going to respond to anyone's replies, so as not to antagonize the discussion. I do humbly request that the conversation be kept to a civil tone (if that is even possible in here).

Thanks so much,

~Writer~

[begin_within]

1. Let's ask the

[Guaranteed]

9. LMAO nt

[Deja Q]

11. No effin' way!

(But it would be chapter 6699, wouldn't it?)

:wow:

[madmom]

2. being of the female persuasion I say go for it just so it isn't patronizing

[patrice]

3. I value other people's perceptions of what it means to be a woman.

I function from the perspective that the real truths have to do with the relationships between relative truths. So what others have to say about my experiences as a woman fits within a picture that is much larger than they and I. Not all "truths" are of equal weight within that picture, but I feel quite competent in identifying the weight of any given piece myself.

I think a lot of the difficulty about these things comes from "self-fulfilling prophecies" and the fact that people too often mistake words for the things that words only refer to.

[peacebird]

4. as a straight white woman I guess I would have to say "It depends"

If someone says to me (as they did in an earlier thread) that I am jealous of HRC because of all she has achieved, and that any woman who doesn't support her is just jealous of the fact she had a career and child and has done better than the rest of us women.... well then I feel enraged.

If someone steps up for women saying that equal work should mean equal pay. Or that women should of course be able to work in the field of her choice as long as she is capable. In cases like that I would feel supported.

As for racism, sexism, homophobia, and ageism: they are attempts to define people and put them down based on one aspect of who they are. In all cases the person making the assertion is declaring that someone is less than, or not good enough based soley on that one aspect.
"All Irish are drunkards" "All blacks are lazy" "Any woman who goes out to bars is a slut" (NOT my belief btw - just examples of this simplistic type of thinking) :eyes:

It doesn't sound like you are the sort of person to engage in that level of discourse. So I likely would not feel offended by your responses.

[Annces]

5. I welcome support for women's issues.

When a man makes postings in support of women's rights, I think it is a good thing, but I also feel the support is more intellectual and distant, because they are not a woman. And I realize a person that is gay would be the one who would lead the way on gay issues, because it is their life, their day to day experience that they deal with.

I sometimes think parents do the best in caring for another person's interest, and leaving their own interests on the side (not all parents of course).

[NMMNG]

6. I'm glad for any and all support I get

I'm an atheist lesbian (therefore obviously female). I'm always grateful for any genuine allies who choose to speak up for me. As for me, I come out swinging for anybody I feel is being victimized . That's just my nature.

One caveat. No one person or even group can speak for everybody as to what's racist/sexist/homophobic. If you ask "Is this sexist" or "Is this racist" you'll get different answers from a variety of people. That's why there's so much propensity for arguments when such topics arise.

[JerseygirlCT]

7. Speaking as a woman

I rather expect, here on DU, for everyone to speak up in support of women's rights. I'm saddened and sometimes angered when that's NOT the case. In the larger world, I'm heartened by those who assume women are actually people and to be accorded the same human dignity and rights as every person.

And as a straight person who feels strongly about gay rights, I certainly hope my support never sounds condescending -- it's never meant to sound that way!

[Guaranteed]

8. Well, I suppose that if you're not a member of the community then,

you may as well stop trying to be considerate since you will never understand what racism, homophobia, or sexism really is. Right?

Great point you're attempting to make there. Truly brilliant.

[Der Blaue Engel]

10. I should hope one wouldn't have to belong to a group to recognize its oppression

I say the more the merrier. If someone's merely being condescending, it's usually pretty obvious, and it isn't exclusive to straight, white males.

Actually, I'm disappointed when they don't recognize the racism/sexism/homophobia.

[Behind the Aegis]

12. A few thoughts

"Every time I read a comment from a DU'er claiming something is "racist," "sexist," or "homophobic," I ask if that person is a member of the community that has been allegedly offended. I do this because I wonder if the person truly has an understanding of what constitutes racism, sexism, or homophobia according to the real experiences of the people in question. Perhaps one can argue that some examples are glaringly obvious; however, I wonder if all members of the community in question would agree with that assessment."

For me, if someone finds something racist, sexist, homophobic, or any other prejudice, I generally don't question if they are part of the "attacked" group because it is always refreshing to see others battle bigotry and intolerance. When I do ask if someone is a part of one of those groups is when they deny something is racist, sexist, homophobic, anti-Semitic, etc. There are nuances to bigotry. It isn't always "bad" words or gross over-generalizations. Sometimes, bigotry is 'sneaky' and disguised and when one is not a part of the group under "attack," they may not be aware of the implications of what was said/done. It is really infuriating when a straight person tells me I don't know when something is homophobic or not, or, more commonly, that I don't really know what anti-Semitism is. This is not to say that mistakes can be made or sometimes people are being over-sensitive because that happens as well. Being a white male, if someone tells me that something is racist (and they are from a minority group) or sexist (they are female) and I don't see it, then I ask. It doesn't mean I will always agree, but more often than not is just opens my eyes to something I was not aware of because I do not live my life as a ethnic minority nor as a woman.

[davsand]

13. I will tell you directly that it is a mistake to assume that Progressives "get" any particular issue...

Sorry, but I can tell you first hand that people you might otherwise assume to be progressives just don't always "get" it when it comes to specific issues.

I stood without support from the local progressives when I knew women were being abused in the workplace. There was NO sign of the local NOW chapter, no sign of the local Democrats, and no freaking help what so ever from the women who like to proclaim how "progressive" they are.

Labor was there for me and for those other women--nobody else.

I dunno if I piss off people by speaking out about what I believe, but I will continue to do so for as long as I can, because it is the RIGHT thing to do. It pisses me off that we live in a world where you are treated badly for being GLBT, Female, ethnic, or even a specific religion. Last time I checked you don't have to belong to any specific "group" or category to understand that it is WRONG to fuck with other people.

It pisses me off even MORE that this is supposed to be a community of thinking people and we still have to point this shit out from time to time. We are supposed to be BETTER than that.

I have not done this shit for this many years just to sit down and shut up because it might rub somebody the wrong way. Remember always what Frederick Douglas wrote back in 1849 or so:

"Those who profess to favor freedom and yet depreciate agitation, are people who want crops without ploughing the ground; they want rain without thunder and lightning; they want the ocean without the roar of its many waters. The struggle may be a moral one, or it may be a physical one, or it may be both. But it must be a struggle. Power concedes nothing without a demand; it never has and it never will."



Regards!



Laura