Mo. Family Shunned Over Hoax, Suicide

[devilgrrl]

Mo. Family Shunned Over Hoax, Suicide
By CHRISTOPHER LEONARD (Associated Press Writer)
From Associated Press
December 06, 2007 5:37 PM EST

DARDENNE PRAIRIE, Mo. - Waterford Crystal Drive is one of those suburban streets that seem so new as to have no history at all. But the suicide of a teenage girl - and allegations she had been tormented by a neighbor over the Internet - have brought a reaction that is old, almost tribal, in its nature.

Residents of the middle-class subdivision have turned against the neighbor, Lori Drew, and her family, demanding the Drews move out. In interviews, they have warned darkly that someone might be tempted to "take matters into their own hands."

"It's like they used to do in the 1700s and 1800s. If you wronged a community, you were basically shunned. That's basically what happened to her," said Trever Buckles, a 40-year-old who lives next door to the Drews.

Drew became an outcast after she participated in a hoax in which a fictional teenager by the name of "Josh Evans" exchanged online messages with 13-year-old Megan Meier. Megan received cruel messages from Josh that apparently drove her to hang herself in her closet in 2006.

More: http://enews.earthlink.net/article/nat?guid=20071206/475781d0_3ca6_1552620071206-2026932646

[Samurai_Writer]

1. I have no sympathy for this woman at all

After reading all the news accounts about this story, she's lucky she isn't being charged with a crime in this girl's death. So she and her family might have to move. Boo-f'in-hoo. That dead girl's family will have to live the rest of their lives without their daughter.

[proud2BlibKansan]

15. The MO state legislature is already looking at legislation

that would make what this woman did a crime in MO.

I agree with you. I have zero sympathy for this woman. She behaved like a child and a girl is now dead. I hope she has to move and her business fails.

[devilgrrl]

17. I bet she's such a sociopath that she doesn't care period.

Seriously. People that do shit like that don't care what others think of them. She'll just move away and move on to someone else.

[Mayberry Machiavelli]

55. I don't think there should be legislation against being an ass. This woman is suffering the true

penalty for being exposed as a reprehensible person: being shunned by the community, and appropriately so.

She didn't murder the girl. There's no crime, just petty meanspiritedness.

[NashVegas]

56. I Agree 100%

Sometimes, tribal justice is the right way to go.

[INDIA]

110. agreed...I just wish that some of our more afflicted

communities took the same "tribal" action instead of the comfy suburbs. Might make a huge difference in youth violence.

[TahitiNut]

68. Such abdication of one's own humanity deserves no regard whatsoever.

Let such people be outside the community of humankind.

[DadOf2LittleAngels]

245. She knew the girl suffered from depression

At best she was criminally negligent for her role in this...

[sendero]

46. I agree..

... the puff pieces we're now reading make it sound like it was all someone else's fault. It wasn't. If the woman had any decency she WOULD move.

[Midlodemocrat]

172. Agree completely.

No sympathy. She's an evil, evil woman who deserves everything that the community can throw at her.

[AlCzervik]

2. good.

[WolverineDG]

3. Well, I don't condone

"taking matters into their own hands" aspect, but I know I wouldn't lose sleep over ending a friendship with these people. As for Lori Drew's feelings, here's a quarter, call someone who cares.

dg

[KitchenWitch]

4. Ms. Drew, perhaps, should have thought of the feelings of others

before she posed as "Josh Evans" and unleashed cruelty on a young girl. Mean people truly suck. Sure sucks to be Lori Drew, now that the truth is out. Call a WAAAAAAHMBULANCE. Being "forced" to move does not even come close to making up for tormenting a teenager.

[zabet]

5. She can buy a new home...

the Meiers cannot buy
a new Megan. She gets
NO sympathy from me.

[SallyMander]

16. .

:thumbsup:

[Dawggie]

6. Good on her neighbors.

Her behaviour was despicable in the internet hoax. I hope she pays for her actions in causing the death of an innocent.

[City Lights]

7. I hope the neighbors just stick to the shunning.

No need to "take matters into their own hands." Shunning is the way to go.

[magellan]

8. Maybe someone will eventually give Lori Drew the compassion she DIDN'T give Megan

Until then, payback's a bitch. She deserves every moment of the revile that town feels toward her.

[Lex]

9. "Waterford Crystal Drive . . " WTF?

This story sucks on so many levels.

And Lori Drew to you I say, "Boo f*cking Hoo."

[mitchum]

14. That name also struck me...it sounds like a goon's idea of classy

I once found myself in a McMansion neighborhood where all of the streets had trying-way-too-hard anglophile names. I actually had to pull over with laughter at the intersection of King's Grant Way and Huntmaster Lane

[alcibiades_mystery]

25. Blackmoor Lane

In my old town there was a "Blackmoor Lane," one effort in the naming strategy you describe. My mother-in-law, who is British, laughed her ass off at that one, since "Blackmoor" is one of the most notorious and hellish prisons in England. It was kinda like calling the street "San Quentin Lane" or "Attica Court."

:rofl:

[mitchum]

29. Ooh, that is good

:)

[alcibiades_mystery]

34. It works on so many levels

All pointing to general stupidity.

:-)

[Bluebear]

90. It's a block over from "Faberge Egg Court"

:silly:

[TalkingDog]

112. Wait, I thought it was next to Tiffany Lamp Circle. n/t

My Favorite Master Artist: Karen Parker GhostWoman Studios

[knitter4democracy]

214. Is that near Mikasa Drive or Pfaltzgraf Court?

This is fun. :D

[hisownpetard]

274. Perpendicular to Pleather Path, and catty-corner to Hummel Highway?

[alphafemale]

191. Is that off of "Corinthian Leather Way?"

:D

[elehhhhna]

249. Around the corner from the Prada Trailer Court

[hisownpetard]

273. They should move... to Lucite Lane!

[MonkeyFunk]

10. Shunning is fine by me

I hope her life is difficult for a long time.

[11 Bravo]

11. Good. All that's left is for her to eat shit and die.

[Horse with no Name]

12. The woman is a social pariah

Anyone that stalks a 13-year old and drives her to suicide deserves to be in prison...not on her comfy McMansion on Waterford Crystal Drive.
I don't advocate violence. But shunning will work quite nicely.

[nonconformist]

13. Good. She deserves it.

The justice system couldn't do anything about this type of harassment, but it's good to see that an old-fashioned shunning can still work wonders.

[Matariki]

18. guilty until proven guilty or innocent? I don't quite get all the vitriol.

Through her lawyer, Drew, a mother of two in her 40s, has denied saying hurtful things to the girl over the Internet, and prosecutors have said they found no grounds for charges against the woman.

Sounds like some unrelated teenager did the actual damage. So why the mob hate-fest?

[Lex]

19. The "unrelated teenager" that she made up?

What "unrelated teenager?"

[Matariki]

40. No. A teenage girl named Ashley made up the "Josh Evans" character.

At least according to the article the OP linked to.

It also says that the PROSECUTORS found no grounds to charge Lori Drew - yet all her neighbors (not to mention many folks on this thread) have made up their minds about her guilt.

Maybe I'm missing something. Is there more information proving her guilt than what is in this article? And if so, why didn't the prosecutors think so?

[alcibiades_mystery]

49. Numerous people have explained the lack of prosecution to you

And you've studiously ignored them.

:shrug:

[Matariki]

53. See post #51 below.

I just can't seem to get my frothy hate up to join the crowd. Sorry.

[alcibiades_mystery]

60. Right...

You're the rational rebel resisting the emotionalism of the madding crowd. I get it. It's an admirable posture. Very original.

[Matariki]

61. Okay, explain to me what you know about the woman's guilt

I can't tell from the article whether she had anything to do with the writing of the MySpace posts. In fact, it sounds more like the teen named Ashley both created the account and made the posts that proceeded the girl's suicide.

Do you have more factual information about how involved the adult was?

[alcibiades_mystery]

65. Cheers

The police report - without using the mother's name - states:

"(She) stated in the months leading up Meier's daughter's suicide, she instigated and monitored a 'my space' account which was created for the sole purpose of communicating with Meier's daughter.

"(She) said she, with the help of temporary employee named ------ constructed a profile of 'good looking' male on 'my space' in order to 'find out what Megan (Meier's daughter) was saying on-line' about her daughter. (She) explained the communication between the fake male profile and Megan was aimed at gaining Megan's confidence and finding out what Megan felt about her daughter and other people.

"(She) stated she, her daughter and (the temporary employee) all typed, read and monitored the communication between the fake male profile and Megan …..

"According to (her) 'somehow' other 'my space' users were able to access the fake male profile and Megan found out she had been duped. (She) stated she knew 'arguments' had broken out between Megan and others on 'my space.' (She) felt this incident contributed to Megan's suicide, but she did not feel 'as guilty' because at the funeral she found out 'Megan had tried to commit suicide before.'"

http://suburbanjournals.stltoday.com/articles/2007/11/11/news/sj2tn20071110-1111stc_pokin_1.ii1.txt

You might consider this acceptable behavior. I do not. As for this woman's credibility:

"I will tell you that the police report is totally wrong," the mother said. "We have worked on getting that changed. I would just be very careful about what you write."

Lt. Craig McGuire, spokesman for the sheriff's department, said he is unaware of anyone contacting the department to alter the report.

"We stand behind the report as written," McGuire says. "There was no supplement to it. What is in the report is what we believe she told us."

[Matariki]

82. thanks for the info - I don't know anything beyond the article linked in the OP

and frankly don't care all that much. But for sake of discussion - it seems there's some back story missing from all this.

Why, for instance, was she concerned about Megan's feelings about her daughter? Perhaps she was being protective of her own kid - maybe not in the smartest way, but still, perhaps her motives were what she said they were rather than simply malicious. If so, does that deserve death threats?

Like I mentioned, it sounds like the girl named Ashley was writing the more mean spirited stuff - and we have no idea how Megan was conducting herself. Megan was obviously not the most stable kid on the block. I'll back that up by saying stable people don't commit suicide because someone's internet sock puppet says "the world would be better off without her".

[alcibiades_mystery]

88. I have never said anywhere that they deserve death threats

So, you must be referring to someone else, in which case you should ask that person rather than me. When you ask me, it makes it look like I said that, which I never did, and makes you look like either a very poor reader or an outright liar. So, ask the correct person the correct question, please.

As for her "motivations," I can't say I have a lot of sympathy. It's asinine behavior for a parent to conduct with his or her child. A fake myspace personality? For what purpose? To conduct a "sting" of a 13 year old? It's preposterous. As I said before, this is terrible parenting at best, completely irresponsible encouragement of cruel behavior at worst. In either case, I would not associate with such people, and I would keep my daughter away from them, which is, after all, the only thing I have been saying here, despite dishonest or incompetent assertions to the contrary.

[Solon]

95. Fuck them, they are trying to pin this shit on us. As if we approve such actions, which is...

untrue. I fucking hate people that try to confuse a non-violent action with violent actions.

[Matariki]

105. Are you being disingenuous for the sake of argument?

Nowhere did I accuse you of saying they deserved death threats. Surely you can differentiate discussing the general issue without taking each sentence personally.

You were however, unless I'm mistaken, defending the general hatred running through this thread. Personally I find motive a factor in whether she's an evil asshole or just misguided and stupid. If the latter, I feel more pity than anger. That's just me, you are entitled to feel however you want obviously, just as I'm entitled to express dismay at so much hate.

[alcibiades_mystery]

107. Oh please

You asked me if it deserved death threats as if I had said something of the kind. If you didn't, it was poorly phrased. Since I had said nothing about death threats, it's either completely ludicrous or completely dishonest to ask me that question as if it were part of the conversation. It obviously doesn't deserve death threats. Nothing does. Happy.

As for your characterization of "all this hate," I don't hate anyone. I understand that you perceive this as "hate," or that you are making out that you do. Whatever, really. I think people can be outraged about a particular kind of conduct without hating. I think people can even act on that outrage in non-violent and non-harassing ways without hating. The best way to do so is to avoid the company of people engaging in it, or to argue vigorously against it in public, as both you and I are doing here, although for different behaviors. Do you "hate" the haters? Obviously not, since you are against hate, and especially "general hatred." So, you disagree with some conduct, and you argue against it. Nothing wrong with that. On either side.

[nonconformist]

122. Maybe you should read up on it before commenting then

Because you're way off base.

[Matariki]

124. Oh bullshit. All I've seen is a bunch of contradictory information.

People form OPINIONS based on emotion.

[nonconformist]

127. Emotions... or POLICE REPORTS.

[LisaL]

179. Well, gee.

The county's prosecutor now says the police report that the woman set up this website wasn't correct. But I guess you know better.
http://www.theage.com.au/news/web/net-vigilantes-target-myspace-mum/2007/12/07/1196812986566.html

[City Lights]

178. Read the police report for yourself:

The Smoking Gun. You'll need to scroll through the page links at the bottom of the page I linked to, but you can read it for yourself.

[City Lights]

175. Bingo.

:applause:

[Dorian Gray]

197. I think it was a case

of idiot mother getting involved in petty teenaged bullshit.

[redqueen]

203. Wow... you're actually rationalizing a parent starting a myspace page

to harass a minor.

:wtf:

[Sequoia]

253. There were earlier stories a few weeks ago about this.

Which stated that the mother was very involved in the prank. Just Google it and you'll find it.

[aikoaiko]

210. "after a brainstorming session with Drew and her daughter". Drew helped plan this out.

How much Drew planned out we'll never know. But that she didn't mea culpa to the Meier's as soon as she learned of the truth sure doesn't make me think she was very sorry for her part in the incident.

[PVnRT]

263. Maybe because there's no crime against harassment on the internet

In fact, there is no law that I know of that says anyone can be held responsible outside of a civil action for someone else's suicide.

The prosecutors are correct. There are no ground to commit Drew with a crime, because no criminal law has been violated. Prosecutors cannot seek out civil cases.

[Matariki]

41. PS: in answer to your question about the "unrelated teenager" - read the article more closely.

relevant excerpt:

Megan became friends with the Drews' young daughter and the girls remained close for years, according to a report provided by prosecutors. But the girls had a falling-out in 2006.

A teenage employee of Drew's named Ashley said she created the "Josh" account on MySpace after a brainstorming session with Drew and her daughter, according to a prosecutor's report. Drew said the girls approached her with the idea, and she told them only to send polite messages to Megan.

Ashley sent Megan many of the messages from "Josh," and Lori Drew was aware of them, prosecutors said.

On Oct. 16, 2006, there was a heated online exchange between Megan and Ashley, who was posing as Josh. A few other MySpace users joined in, calling Megan names. It ended when "Josh" said the world would be better off without Megan.

[Solon]

47. Are you saying they should face no consequences for any of their actions?

Look, I live in this area, and I don't want these fucking assholes living around here at all. They can, as another poster put it, "Eat shit and die!" for all I care. The world would be better off without THEM!

[Matariki]

51. No. This is the only article I read about it and it leaves me with questions about the woman's guilt

I don't think this article has enough information to compel me to join the witch hunt. For all I know, it was entirely the cruel actions of a couple teenagers and had little to do with this woman - except maybe a lack of supervision on her part. That would hardly be a first, cruel teens and parents who don't screen all their teenager's internet posts.

I don't have enough information to go on a blind hate spree. Do you? You didn't seem to have even read the article all the way through before forming an opinion.

[Solon]

58. She had admitted knowledge to what was going on, and approved of it, apparently...

I don't see what is so complicated about that.

[Kingshakabobo]

75. There was another mother involved who snitched on Drew in the first place.

The other mother is the one who tipped off Megan's parents to the fake account. Until then, megan's parents assumed Josh was a real person. According to the other mother, Drew was very involved AND attempted to cover it up by requesting the other mother keep quiet. Furthermore, Drew admitted as much in her original police report. Drew originally filed a police report on Megan's father when he drove hip pick up truck on their lawn to drop up their foosball table (the foosball table was hacked up and spray-painted by megan's father - Megan's parents were storing the foosball table for the Drews as it was intended to be a Christmas gift for the Drew kids).




here's link that explains more detail about the police report:

http://www.myfoxstl.com/myfox/pages/News/Detail?contentId=4926871&version=1&locale=EN-US&layoutCode=TSTY&pageId=3.2.1

[Matariki]

86. So, Megan had crazy parents.

But they have no culpability? They never noticed her depression or internet activity?

She killed herself because some made up person on the internet said 'the world would be better off without her'. Sounds like blaming Metallica lyrics.

Really, there has to be more to this.

[Kingshakabobo]

91. Huh? megan had crazy parents? Wtf are you talking about?

never mind. I think I catch YOUR drift.

Bye.

[Matariki]

93. Spraypainting and chopping up the fussball table and driving a pickup on the lawn.

And really, why didn't they pay more attention to their daughter's depression?

[alcibiades_mystery]

96. Are you serious?

:wow:

[Name removed]

101. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Matariki]

106. You wrote this - what am I misunderstanding?

"Drew originally filed a police report on Megan's father when he drove hip pick up truck on their lawn to drop up their foosball table (the foosball table was hacked up and spray-painted by megan's father - Megan's parents were storing the foosball table for the Drews as it was intended to be a Christmas gift for the Drew kids)."

sorry, mistook you for Kingshakabobo, who posted the above.

[nonconformist]

120. Yep, when they found out the Drews ridiculed and harassed their daughter until she killed herself.

And just let me say, it's way fucking nicer than I would have been.

And then they had the audacity to call the police about it. I bet they regret that now, because Lori Drew confessed what she did to Megan in that police report... since you keep maintaining her innocence, you might want to check that out.

[dionysus]

239. sounds like a reasonable response to the people that murdered their daughter.

[Richard Steele]

170. Your attempts to exhonerate this troubled child's TORMENTORS are nothing short of DISGUSTING.

You should look up "shame" in a dictionary, and then GET some.

[redqueen]

206. A-frickin-men!

:wtf:

Some people... :puke:

[Midlodemocrat]

242. Dude, you rock.

:applause:

[redqueen]

204. Not a lack of supervision. She encouraged this.

I can't believe you're saying what you're saying. Even going by the accounts you seem to prefer, she was directly involved and did nothing to stop the online harassment or the hoax.

[Richard Steele]

244. As per her detailed statement to the police, she "instigated and monitored" the hoax.

http://www.thesmokinggun.com/archive/years/2007/1120072megan2.html

[shanti]

22. and actually

there was another story posted (on DU) that mentioned that another person that was in the mother's household wrote the letters on her computer.

[alcibiades_mystery]

31. The mother admits to allowing the hoax in the first place

That in itself is a "shun-able" offense, in my book.

Think about it. Faced with the choice to allow your daughter to pull a hoax on another child or not to, you would choose to allow it? It's ridiculous behavior, even if it went no further than that, which it surely did. I don't believe for a second that she said "Yeah, go ahead, but be nice," and forgot about it. But even if that's all she did, it is dangerous and irresponsible parenting at best, and the decision that set off the cascading consequences. There's no law against being a cruel asshole and bad parent, but damned if I have to wish you good morning everyday if you are.

[nonconformist]

35. What's worse is this woman was "friends" of the family and knew of Megan's depression

She knew full well that Megan had issues, yet still allowed the hoax to happen. That, in my opinion, is the very definition of cruel.

[mrreowwr_kittty]

83. And then continued to socialize with them AFTER it happened!

Never letting on about her role in the hoax. I'd have a modicum of forgiveness for her had she come clean IMMEDIATELY to the parents but she didn't.

[Midlodemocrat]

176. I completely agree with you.

And, beyond engineering the hoax, she obviously spoke of it in her household as well as not protecting her passwords particularly well.

She is every bit as guilty as though she posted that horrible stuff herself.

[redqueen]

207. Definitely bad parenting.

Encouraging teens to lie to and harass others on the net... I can't believe people are acting as if it's no big deal.

[Horse with no Name]

23. They cannot charge her

because there isn't a law against it.

[alcibiades_mystery]

26. Some behavior is reprehensible but not illegal

It has nothing to do with the presumption of innocence, which is a legal standard in any case.

[Richard Steele]

30. Because she created the situation, willfully and purposely. Hence the hatred for her.

She didn't say the things herself, she just created the fake persona
and allowed her daughter, and daughter's friends, to use it. And the
circumstances around her doing that don't exactly scream "benevolent intent"
to me.

And I don't believe she was unaware of what was going on, seeing
as how her first action upon learning of the suicide was to contact
the kids involved and warn them to keep quiet about it.

[Lex]

32. Exactly. She admits she had a hand in it.

Creator of fake account not charged

The woman who created the fake profile has not been charged with a crime. She allegedly told the St. Charles County Sheriff’s Department she created Josh’s profile because she wanted to gain Megan’s confidence to learn what Megan was saying about her own child online.

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/21882976/

[Matariki]

64. From that quote, it sounds like she was concerned for her own daugher.

What about this quote:

"Drew's attorney Jim Briscoe said on NBC on Tuesday that Drew "absolutely, 100 percent" had nothing to do with the negative comments posted online about Megan and wasn't aware of them until after the girl took her life."

Sound contradictory. How do you chose which to believe?

[Midlodemocrat]

173. Concerned enough to create a false persona to torment a child?

Sorry. Not buying it. Whoever posted those comments had access to the account Lori Drew created as well as the password.

She's the culpable one. She is the 'adult' after all.

And, I'm a mom. My kids use MySpace and FaceBook. If I were 'concerned', I would prohibit their usage, not create a fake person to torture someone else's child with.

[Occulus]

250. It's called "empathy"

and yours is apparently seriously atrophied.

[NashVegas]

57. Please Read Through This Thread

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=389&topic_id=2301532

There is a lot of disagreement and yelping, but plenty of details about the case. At the time it first went public, last month, the newspapers that reported it chose to protect the Drews by not publishing their names. That was a huge mistake on the media's part, because it fueled even more anger against this woman who had the gall to harrass a 13 year old, elicit sympathy from her parents for their pain when the kid committed suicide, and then press charges against the kid's parents when they expressed their anger after finding out their role in said suicide.

[Marrah_G]

189. She was the one that posed as a teenage boy

Here is the reason for the vitrol:

She, with the help of one of her employees, set up a myspace pretending to be a teenage boy. She then befriended a young girl she knew to be mentally fragile by posing as a boy. After gaining the girls confidence and trust she abruptlly pulled the rug out, calling her names, saying everyone hates her, that he thinks she is ugly, yadda yaddda. This target she chose had not done anything wrong. In fact she was friendly with the family at one time.

So no it isn't a crime technically. But it is nasty and hateful behavior that resulted in the death of a young girl. This was a grown woman acting like a child with the intention of causing the child emotional harm.

She also then befriended the dead girls family and the girls family even stored christmas gifts in their basement for her. She is a nasty human being.

Karma is a bitch.

[Egalitariat]

192. "Presumed Innocence" doesn't apply to shunning by neighbors

It only applies to the government's justice system.

[DadOf2LittleAngels]

246. She loaded and cocked the gun

Then handed it to a bunch of teenagers...

This was her doing...

[kestrel91316]

20. Frankly, I wish this would happen MORE to the sociopaths among us.

Shun them. Do not speak to them, do not socialize with them, if possible do not transact business with them.

She did a TERRIBLE thing that resulted in a teen's suicide. Why anyone WOULDN'T shun her is beyond me.

[mrreowwr_kittty]

140. Amen to that. Can you imagine how different the world would be?

What if all the sociopaths, bullies, and assholes got the cold shoulder, instead of showered with rewards as they usually are?

[hisownpetard]

276. Yup - like OJ Simpson and George Bush.

[alcibiades_mystery]

21. There are social consequences to outrageous behavior

Her behavior was both cruel and irresponsible, and while not illegal, it certainly merits social consequences. I wouldn't tip a hat to this woman, nor would I allow my daughter to be anywhere near her. That doesn't make me cruel. It makes me a responsible parent and member of the community.

[WillowTree]

24. She has sown the wind and now she reaps the whirlwind.

No sympathy for her whatsoever.

My heart does break, though, for her daughter. That this was supposedly done because of her may well be a terrible burden for her to carry in the coming years. At the very least, just knowing that your parent is capable of such a thing must be horrible for a youngster. I can't even imagine how that would feel, not to mention how it would feel to have all your friends know what her mother had done. Poor kid.

[alcibiades_mystery]

28. More reason to shun the mother...the daughter was in it to the hilt

but should have been guided better.

Yes, she will have to live with the effects of her cruelty, a hard knock, since cruelty is the currency of that age. But parenmts should try to minimize it, not amplify it. If my daughter came to me with a scheme to "trick" another girl into thinking a boy liked her, I would tell my daughter that this is wrong, and cruel, and absolutely out of the question. I would not say "Just post polite messages," and thereby collaborate in the project, supposing Ms. Drew's involvement went no further than that (which I doubt). It is ridiculous and cruel on its face that a grown woman would conduct herself in this manner, much less a parent, who should be engaged in some sort of teaching.

[mitchum]

27. Maybe she can move in with the Texas cheerleader mom

[Horse with no Name]

33. or the mom who threatened to kill my daughter

for her academic spot.

[nonconformist]

36. Woah - seriously?!

[Horse with no Name]

37. Yep.

Amazing thing...karma...you know?
That woman had a stroke the year after. She was in her mid forties.
Funny how much being mean and nasty takes out of you.

[proud2BlibKansan]

38. Wow that's awful

Some of these moms are just kids themselves.

[Horse with no Name]

39. I think I could write a book

about the antics I have dealt with in this school district.
I'm sure you could as well.
This particular woman burned someone's house to the ground in the past because she thought that woman was sleeping with her husband.
The problem is...nobody ever looked into it.
I live in a county that you can literally get away with murder if you know the right people in the upper echelon. And she does.

[proud2BlibKansan]

42. Sounds like a bad movie on Lifetime LOL

[CaliforniaPeggy]

43. My dear Horse with no Name...

I have never spoken to you before, but my heart goes out to you as I read your story here.

There is much cruelty in the world, but I hope that even my words, coming as they do from a stranger to you, will help...

I am so sorry, and I hope you and your daughter are OK...

[Horse with no Name]

44. We're good.

Thanks so much for your kind words.:hug:

[Hekate]

50. Sounds like a great place for your daughter to be FROM. Yikes. Small-town gothic scary story.

:wow:
I hope you and your family stay well. :hug:

Hekate

[knitter4democracy]

216. I grew up in a place like that.

Hard to explain to people who have never lived in small towns.

[Midlodemocrat]

174. Whoa. How awful for you.

:hug:

Can't begin to imagine that.

[Solon]

45. Big news in my are, this is St. Charles County, after all, and this woman and her family should...

get the fuck out, we don't want them anywhere near us.

[Rowdyboy]

48. How sad that she's no longer popular in the neighborhood....Maybe she needs a new hobby

something other than torturing insecure teenage girls into committing suicide.

[in_cog_ni_to]

52. That woman should be hung by her fingernails and then her toenails for what she did to that girl!

I'm glad she's being shunned. She deserve to be.

[Hekate]

54. This isn't going to blow over. I'm surprised they haven't already called the moving van.

Since the law can't do anything about this situation, shunning by the community is exactly the right response. There's no violence involved, but it's a social death sentence.

Hekate

[LisaL]

59. People forming internet mobs

because they are upset over what they apparently consider harassment over the internet. Makes tons of sense.
:eyes:

[alcibiades_mystery]

62. What internet mob?

:shrug:

In terms of this thread, I see a lot of people agreeing that shunning is appropriate. Is that not a legitimate position? Is it the agreement you dislike, the fact that people are making judgments based on the available information, or the fact that so many people have a position? I get how it's admirable to represent yourself as a lone rationalist against the "internet mob," but I'm not sure I see one in this case.

Needless to say, the people actually threatening harm to the Drews are in the wrong, but the neighbors who have refused to deal with them anymore seem like they're just practicing their own option to choose their own company, no?

[LisaL]

63. Did you read the article?

The brick through the window, the changing of the cell phone message, the prank phone calls, the threats?

Here is a quote from the article in case you are too lazy to read it.
"Death threats and ugly insults have been hurled at Drew over the Internet, where she has been portrayed as a monster who should go to prison, lose custody of her children, or worse. Her name and address have been posted online, and a Web site with satellite images of the home said the Drews should "rot in hell.""

[Solon]

67. And none of us have condoned that, they should be shunned, no more, no less...

until they move.

[LisaL]

77. Throwing brick through someone's window goes way

beyond "shunning."

[Name removed]

79. Deleted sub-thread

Sub-thread removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[mrreowwr_kittty]

78. Precisely. Their presense in the neighborhood is a constant reminder to Megan's family.

I don't condone the threats and what have you but I don't see why the neighbors should act like nothing's amiss. This is an age-old community method of dealing with unacceptable behavior. Granted, I don't always agree with what's considered unacceptable, but in this case I do.

[alcibiades_mystery]

72. Do you read entire posts before you respond

From my original post, unedited:

"Needless to say, the people actually threatening harm to the Drews are in the wrong, but the neighbors who have refused to deal with them anymore seem like they're just practicing their own option to choose their own company, no?"

[LisaL]

76. Yes, I read your post.

Could I remind you of your question "what internet mob?"

[alcibiades_mystery]

80. So you're not referring to this thread, yeah?

Just clarifying.

[LisaL]

89. No, I am not referring to this thread specifically.

I am referring to people, who according to the OP article, apparently are sending death threats over the net.

[alcibiades_mystery]

104. OK then

Miscommunication. :-)

[Matariki]

66. 'shunning is appropriate'

why do I feel like I've suddenly stepped into 17th century Puritan New England?

None of you even KNOW these people, much less the actual facts. Where's this hatred coming from?

[alcibiades_mystery]

70. I trust facts set forth in a police report

As for 17th century, we shun people all the time, for all sorts of reasons. It's not 17th century. It's choosing your own company based on people's character.

[Matariki]

92. That's true. But 100 people on a person's front lawn is not rejecting their company

It's a witch hunt or a lynch mob.

[LisaL]

97. Agree. I would think that if neighbors wanted to shun this woman,

they could have just stopped talking to her.
What the article describes is not shunning.

[alcibiades_mystery]

100. Again, direct your queries to somebody who supported that

That person is not me.

I see how you think it's argumentatively useful to pretend I am saying that, but I am not, so your credibility starts to erode a bit. Find a supporter of that and ask them. I supported "rejecting their company," as you say, and nothing more.

[Matariki]

109. Hey, you started this

when you insulted me for saying I didn't want to participate in the general hate fest, as if that was a problem for you.

I have no problem with you, I'm admittedly not keeping track of who is saying what exactly on this thread. I'm just trying to understand the contradicting information flying around and why the majority of people posting are so personally worked up over this.

[alcibiades_mystery]

113. When exactly did I insult you?

I have no idea what you're talking about.

[Matariki]

119. Post 53 if you really want to know

unless of course you *weren't* being sarcastic.

Look, I have no disagreement with you. I don't see much point in kibitzing over perceived insults or misunderstandings between posts. No hard feeling on my part anyway.

[alcibiades_mystery]

121. I assume you mean #60

In which case, oh jeez. Touchy touchy.

[Matariki]

128. You know

you can be a bit of a jerk. ciao.

[alcibiades_mystery]

130. Ouch

:rofl:

For somebody so touchy, you sure like to dish it out.

[Solon]

71. Bzzt, wrong, I know Lt. McGuire, spokesman of the Sheriff's department...

through his stepson, Matt. This happened in my county, and I'm fucking pissed as hell.

[LisaL]

73. Exactly.

HTF making death threats (over the internet, no less)to someone because of being upset over alleged internet harassment makes any sense to anyone? I wish people just got a clue and minded their own business. Most people don't know this woman, or the girl who killed herself. If there was something to charge her with, then authorities could have done it.
Harassing someone over the net over internet harassment seems completely ludicrous to me.

[alcibiades_mystery]

84. It is certainly wrong to harrass these people

How do you feel about the neighbors refusing to have anything to do with them?

We're talking past each other here. Let's slow down and agree on what we agree on. We all agree, I think (or, at least most of us), that harassing the Drews with death threats or otherwise, over the internet or in person, is wrong. Yes? Happy?

Now, on to the question that most of us are contemplating: is it right for the neighbors - who know these people - to cut off relationships with them if the facts of the matter are as the police report and other sources describe? Is that appropriate? That's the question I was answering when I said "shunning is appropriate," and it's right there in writing, so any attempts to make it sound like I said "harassment is appropriate" would be an obvious and very silly lie.

[LisaL]

87. Nobody can force neighbors to associate with these

people if they don't want to.
But what the article describes goes way above "shunning."
This sounds like a really dangerous situation. One of the neighbors is quoted in the article saying that if somebody does something the hope is it's done to the right house.
HTF is that "shunning?"

[alcibiades_mystery]

94. It's not

You are correct that the behavior described in the article goes way beyond shunning. And that behavior is inappropriate. You may want to direct your queries on that to somebody who approved of that behavior, as they may have a better answer for you than me. Notice that my post merely says "shunning is appropriate." That's the only thing I said was appropriate. If you disagree with that, fine. I think shunning is appropriate in this case. Feel free to disagree with that claim. All this other stuff may be relevant to the article, but is utterly beside the point with respect to my statement.

[Occulus]

251. And never mind the dead kid in the closet

God. Do you read?

At all?

[Ilsa]

69. I'm surprised there isn't some sort of law against what she did, even

if it is not specific. Maybe something about attempting to deceive a minor for the purpose of harassment, abuse, and cruelty.

[LisaL]

74. Well, according to the freaking OP article, she is not the one

who set up this fake boy profile. So, WTF do you think she did, exactly, that she could be charged for?

[mrreowwr_kittty]

98. According to this article she was the one who did

"Drew became an outcast after she admitted inventing "Josh Evans," a good-looking teenage boy who chatted online with 13-year-old Megan Meier. Megan received cruel messages from Josh that apparently drove her to hang herself in her closet in 2006."

http://news.bostonherald.com/news/national/midwest/view.bg?articleid=1049225

The article in the OP is some sort of adaptation of this one. In that one it says she participated in it. Either way, Lori Drew continued to socialize with Megan's parents after the suicide without letting on that she knew of the hoax all along. THAT is sick and cruel. There may not be grounds to prosecute and I certainly don't think the Drews should be harassed and threatened but I've got no problem with them getting an icy reception in the neighborhood.

[LisaL]

111. So, press reporting contradictory things as to how

this woman was actually involved. Why doesn't this give anyone a clue?

[alcibiades_mystery]

115. A direct quotation from a police report

corroborated by the police department spokesperson? And ostensibly told to the police by the subject herself?

That's just "contradictory" reporting from the press?

I dunno. That seems like a pretty definitive primary source to me. Now, no doubt the police report may have been distorted. Maybe the cops were outraged too, and painted her statements in the worst possible light. Maybe this and that. I could play such tricks until the end of time, though it would make it difficult to get my shoes on in the morning. But that would be a different sort of thing altogether, wouldn't you agree, than mere differences in reporting, oh ho hum, that media and their sensationalism!

[mrreowwr_kittty]

137. However she was involved, she KNEW about the hoax the whole time

And failed to disclose it to Megan's parents, before or AFTER the suicide. Again, why should the neighbors be friendly to her under those circumstances?

[LisaL]

139. WTF does it have to do with neighbors being friendly?

The article describes death threats over the net, prank phone calls, and a brick through the window, and comments about "taking matters into their own hands." WTF does that have to do with being friendly?

[mrreowwr_kittty]

146. WTF is your point?

I don't see too many posts advocating for threats and violence on this thread. Most of the ones I see are disclaiming that they don't agree with that. I don't think they should be threatened or harassed either, but I don't have a problem with them being snubbed and I hope it prompts them to leave the neighborhood.

I can't figure out what your purpose is here but for some reason I'm reminded of this satirical Onion article about the Columbine shootings. http://www.theonion.com/content/node/29298

I think it describes you to a tee.

[LisaL]

171. Maybe you should actually read the thread.

And how many would be too many to you?

[mrreowwr_kittty]

185. Why do you defend bullies? n/t

[LisaL]

258. Why do you defend bullies?

The article says the woman had a brick thrown through her window, somebody called 911 and said there was a shooting in her house, there have been prank phone calls, and other things done to this woman and her family.
If you all are so concerned about 13 year old children, get a clue. This woman has children of her own. Why don't you show concern for those children?

[nonconformist]

126. Ahh, but she did. She confessed to doing it in a police report.

Her LAWYER is the one now going around denying it, but it's already a matter of public record.

Really, if you're going to jump to the defense of this piece of shit, at least do a bit of research.

[LisaL]

180. You might not believe the woman's lawyer.

But the prosecutor says that the police report was not correct.
That's what the county prosecutor said

"He also said that contrary to earlier police reports, Lori Drew - who was 48 at the time - did not instigate the Josh Evans profile, nor did she use the fake profile to communicate with Megan. While she knew about the ruse, she was apparently unaware that the girls had used the Josh profile to attack her neighbour's daughter."


http://www.theage.com.au/news/web/net-vigilantes-target-myspace-mum/2007/12/07/1196812986566.html

[alcibiades_mystery]

190. "While she knew about the ruse..."

So, a 48 year-old mother knows that her child has created a fake internet profile to communicate with her daughter's former friend for...what purpose?

As I said before (and throughout this thread), this is terrible parental decision-making at best, encouragement of teenage cruelty at worst. I mean, really. Do you have children? Would you allow your child to engage in such conduct?

The reason most people with sense WOULD NOT is simple: playing tricks or running stings on children is - barring extraordinary circumstances - not acceptable adult behavior. In this case, the trick was particularly noxious, with the hoaxsters posing as a good-looking, popular boy showing affection for a lonely, depressed young girl. In my book, one need not have "created" the profile. As an ethical matter, the parent had a duty to STOP such action immediately. The only possible outcome was negative. Nothing good could have come of it, and it was cruel on its face. That is why she is being shunned is an appropriate response. Simply knowing about this behavior and doing nothing, as an adult and a parent, is wrong, and unacceptable. So, even under the mildest interpretation of her actions, shunning is appropriate.

[TommyO]

195. Then why the hell did she say that in the initial police report?

[Elidor]

233. Indeed

Her own first report to the police admitted culpability and involvement.

[LisaL]

256. HTF do you know what she told the police?

The prosecutor is saying police report is incorrect.

[gulliver]

81. Do not assume the MSM has this story factually accurate.

I assume the story is probably mostly false. I personally experienced a minor MySpace-related fiasco at my own kid's school. One of my kids had direct knowledge of the incident, and it was reported on television. The whole story was sensationalized and distorted completely beyond recognition by the TV "reporters." The facts were wrong. There was no direct sourcing to those involved. It was all hype, all desperate, ignorant, low-paid flak reporters concocting a hackneyed, factless "story."

It taught me a lot. If something is too bad to be true, it's probably false. Also, don't assume the MSM is competent by any stretch.

[alcibiades_mystery]

102. In

is case, we have direct sourcing from a police report.

Now, you might question the police report's accuracy. That's fine. But the behavior was set forth in the police report as described by Ms. Drew herself. So, you'd have to assume that the cops were also out to lie and distort. Again, this might be the case. Anything might be the case. Most of us in the real world can come to reasonable conclusions about the evidence that we see, even when it is incomplete. I'd never make it to the El station otherwise. :-)

[KitSileya]

268. And as you rightly point out,

even if we look at those conflicting reports in the most positive light wrt the mother, it still shows cruelty and negligence by Ms. Drew. Shunning, that is refusal to interact, talk to, buy from, or in any other way socialize with her, is most appropriate. Death threats, stone throwing, or threathening behavior is not. But looking thru her as if she is literally not there, is. Choosing not to invite her to parties, not asking her for favors, refusing to do anything for her - those kinds of things are acceptable.

[nonconformist]

135. There was also a television interview on Anderson Cooper with Megan's parents

I watched the clip at the CNN website... not sure if it's still there.

[KingFlorez]

85. It serves her right

What she did was reprehensible, I don't blame people for shunning her.

[Manifestor_of_Light]

99. This is in the same league as the Nancy Grace story.

The one where she interviewed a mother whose child was missing, and grilled the woman like the woman had murdered her own child, and the next day the mother committed suicide.

Totally reprehensible. You never know how depressed someone can be and close to the edge. One comment can send a person over the edge and into the abyss.

[LisaL]

103. Oh give me a break.

A lot of people posting here aren't exactly pleasant either. HTF do you know your comments aren't sending someone over the edge?

[Manifestor_of_Light]

147. Because I NEVER engage in ad hominem arguments.

That's why. I never attack the person.

I never call anyone a bad name. I suggest they might be misguided.

I have never in my entire life, ever told anybody that they were bad, or that they were a waste of space, or that they should kill themselves.

That is a far cry from people who tell someone they are worthless or hopeless or sinful or undeserving of kindness (like many ministers do in their sermons; see "all our righteousness is as filthy rags,etc."), and that sends them over the edge.

Megan was told by this fake boyfriend that the woman made up that "the world would be better off without her" and she took this fake boyfriend at his (actually her) word.

[LisaL]

259. According to this woman's lawyer, if anyone said those things

to the girl, it wasn't the woman. It obviously couldn't matter less to most here.

[INDIA]

117. right, except one victim was an innocent and depressed 13 year old girl...

and the other "victim" was a suspect in the disappearance/death of her infant son with a crappy alibi. As much as I hate to defend Nancy Grace, it's just not the same level of reprehensibility.

[Manifestor_of_Light]

150. So you are presuming that the mother of the missing child is guilty?

Presumption of innocence. Ever heard of it? It's a rule of law in criminal cases.

[INDIA]

202. I never said she was guilty...

but she certainly was the primary suspect, not just by Nancy Grace, by the police too. She was also an adult, and had a story that didn't add up regarding the disappearance of her child. I think it was quite appropriate to ask her tough questions.

How can you compare this to what happened to this little girl who never did anything to anybody? There's no comparison.

As far as I know, they still haven't found the body/kid. But I try not to keep up with stories like that. They're too sensationalist and sad.

[Catherine Vincent]

108. No sympathy from me.

She and her family should have moved already. Why would they want to continue living there anyway?

[gatorboy]

114. They're fucking scum.

http://meganhaditcoming.blogspot.com/

[alcibiades_mystery]

116. That's not really her

Come on, now.

[gatorboy]

118. There's certainly alot of information there by someone close to the situation.

And considering he previous actions, she's certainly capable.

[alcibiades_mystery]

123. I guess I don't want to believe any moderately functioning person could be that callous

I've been proven wrong before on that point, I assure you.

:-)

[LisaL]

125. You seriously think it's real?

I don't buy it for a minute.

[NashVegas]

235. There's a Lot of Probably Incorrect Information, Too

IIRC, it was Drew who sold Meghan's parents their home, not the other way around.

[AlCzervik]

129. i don't think thats her but someone who is sympathetic to this Drew woman.

so to this blogger i say, Megan's dead, you won, enjoy living with yourself.

[LisaL]

131. Sympathetic to her? You gotta be kidding.

I would guess it's someone trying to get her even into more trouble. And it's not real (at least according to her lawyer).
http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,315684,00.html

[AlCzervik]

133. i already i said i didn't think it was real and even though she is scum she shouldn't be bullied

shunned works just fine.

[LisaL]

134. And I've already said despite the title of the article claiming

the woman is being shunned, what's described goes way above shunning.

[alcibiades_mystery]

136. Do you think shunning would be an appropriate response?

I know the behavior there isn't just shunning. Now, do you think shunning would be an appropriate response?

[LisaL]

138. Nobody is forcing the neighbors to associate with this family

unless they want to. IMO, the title of the article isn't exactly accurate-what's described is not shunning. Thus, discussing whether shunning is appropriate doesn't even make sense to me.

[alcibiades_mystery]

142. Why doesn't it make sense?

Let's get off the article for a second. And, obviously, nobody is forcing anyone to do anything.

But as a personal matter, a matter of ethics, perhaps, do you think that shunning, as you would define it (you obviously have a definition, or you couldn't define the actual activity as "beyond shunning"), would be an appropriate response for the neighborhood?

It's a simple question. We need not stay chained to the story as it is. I'm exploring a point here. Do you think shunning - not what the article describes, but shunning as YOU would describe it - would be an appropriate response in this case?

[LisaL]

143. I have a definition of shunning?

LOL.
How about looking it up in a dictionary?
from www. dictionary. com-To avoid deliberately; keep away from.

The neighbors can keep away from that family all they want. Congregating in 100th in front of their home and other things described seems to be the opposite of shunning as it defined (not by me, by the way, but by the dictionary).

[alcibiades_mystery]

148. It's not necessary to condescend

When I said that YOU have a definition, I meant a working definition that you are contrasting against the other behavior (unless you looked it up in the DICTIONARY at the beginning of the discussion to refresh your memory, which would be odd behavior indeed). I wasn't suggesting that you have a solipsistic definition known and understood only by you. Rather obviously, I thought. I'm sorry if you took it that way.

In any case, as we've both agreed perhaps a dozen times before, "Congregating in 100th (sic) in front of their home and other things described seems to be the opposite of shunning." Yes. We've established that. It is unnecessary to repeat it for the purpose of providing an answer to my question, which you seem to be unable or unwilling to do.

Is shunning an appropriate response in this case? I'm not asking you whether the neighbors CAN do it. That's obvious as well. I'm asking if YOU think it is an appropriate response. Unfortunately, the dictionary cannot provide an answer for us there. I'm not sure why you're avoiding the question. It's really a yes with an argument or a no with an argument.

[NashVegas]

236. So What, Even If It Does Go Beyond Shunning

And stays within legal bounds, such as walking up to someone's face and telling them they're slime, without inflicting any physical harm, seems like an appropriate response, to me.

There is nothing illegal about verbally letting someone know you don't want them in your neighborhood, as long as your reasons have nothing to do with matters that that person can do nothing about such as race, gender, etc.

[LisaL]

257. Is it legal to throw a brick through someone's window?

If so, pardon me, I didn't know.

[NashVegas]

265. Where Did I State That It Is? NOWHERE!

Where did I state that I would approve of that? NOWHERE. Why are you insinuating things that are not there?

[LisaL]

267. And what exactly do you mean by "so what if it goes beyond

shunning?"
:eyes:

[NashVegas]

275. "And stays within legal bounds"

What part of legal bounds is vandalism?

[proud2BlibKansan]

240. It is hard for me to wrap my brain around parents who let their kids

spend so much time on myspace - at this age.

That just really blows me away. And for a mom to get involved!! It's just insane.

[AlCzervik]

132. After reading this entire thread it makes me wonder how some of you identify yourselves as liberal.

or compassionate, or maybe you don't identify yourselves as either.

[Matariki]

144. Do you mean compassionate in general?

Do you mean compassion for the woman with a lynch mob on her lawn, or do you mean compassion for the girl who suicided by expressing hatred toward that woman?

Do you think it's possible to feel compassion for more than one side in a given situation? Do you think it's possible to feel compassion even if you believe a person acted wrong?

[alcibiades_mystery]

151. "who suicided by expressing hatred toward that woman"

Huh?

:wow:

[Matariki]

153. Showing compassion for the girl by expressing hatred toward that woman

and, was I talking to you?

But now that you've engaged me in pleasant conversation again - what do you think, can you have compassion for the woman with the lynch mob on her lawn even though she behaved very reprehensibly? Or do you feel that in order to have compassion for the girl that committed suicide you have to withhold compassion for that woman, what's her name? Or hate her even?

What if her neighbors kill her, will you feel compassion for her then, or nothing?

Can you have compassion like a Buddhist, for all humanity in all our sad, cruel, messed up glory? Compassion for your enemies as well as your friends?

[alcibiades_mystery]

155. Oy...that was a troubling ambiguity

In any case, I've already answered you here: "I think people can be outraged about a particular kind of conduct without hating. I think people can even act on that outrage in non-violent and non-harassing ways without hating. The best way to do so is to avoid the company of people engaging in it, or to argue vigorously against it in public, as both you and I are doing here, although for different behaviors."

That was many posts ago. But then you have to go and do it again:

What if her neighbors kill her, will you feel compassion for her then, or nothing?

This is a borderline personal attack and you damn well know it. I have said nothing in this thread that should indicate to you or anyone else that I would feel "nothing" if this woman is murdered. How dare you, really? I have treated you decently throughout this thread, with perhaps some playful sparring now and again, even if we disagreed. Is this your famous "compassion," these base and despicable ad hominems? Can anyone take your talk of "compassion" seriously when you engage in such snide and underhanded insinuation. Get a hold of yourself. To even suggest such a thing is just plain old nasty, and piss-poor argument, sir or madam, for real.

As for a direct answer to your question, of course it is possible and even appropriate to feel compassion for all people under duress. Very obviously. This is a correlate to my claim many posts ago, reproduced above. Now, I'm willing to engage in further pleasant conversation with you, if you would only be pleasant. Perhaps refraining from suggestions that I would simply shrug my shoulders at the murder of another human being - without evidence or reason or even provocation for such an outrageous insinuation - would be a good first step toward that goal.

[Matariki]

158. borderline personal attack is correct

you being the one posting out of context chucks of my post and adding mocking smilies to boot. I wasn't even addressing that post to you. You bait me then twist stuff out of context and pretend to be indignant and personally insulted. Don't give me that personal attack nonsense.

I'm very happy you can be outraged without hate. Good for you. Please don't take comments about the hate in this thread as being directed toward you - you seem stuck on that. My dismay is toward the 'eat shit and die' comments, or she 'should be hung by her fingernails'. None of which were made by you, yes I know. So again, ciao.

[alcibiades_mystery]

161. Unbelievable

My supposed "insults" of you are "chucks" and "mocking smilies."

Your insult of me is that I may be the kind of person who would feel no compassion for a MURDER VICTIM.

Yes, these are roughly equivalent "insults." In completely insane internet argument world.

Before you go railing about your so-called compassion, you may want to start cultivating a basic sense of proportion.

[Matariki]

166. Honestly, where did I ever say that?

Nowhere. I asked you questions about compassion that were really intended for the person whose post I was answering in the first place.

I have to think you are simply enjoying arguing for it's own sake.

[alcibiades_mystery]

168. Right here

What if her neighbors kill her, will you feel compassion for her then, or nothing?

Hiding it in a question doesn't make it any less disgusting. Now you have more defenses, that it wasn't meant for me, a defense belied by your and, was I talking to you? statement, as well as by the post below, in which you shrug some people would, some people wouldn't, as if it isn't clear as day that anyone who would feel no compassion for a murder victim is a moral cretin and despicable human being.

Sleazy as all git out.

[nonconformist]

157. Oh give me a break.

Do I have compassion for Lori Drew? NO - why would I?

I really don't think anyone is going to KILL her, but if that happened it would be horrible and wrong. BUT IT HASN'T, so it's moot.

And are you really sitting there saying you always have compassion for both sides? Seriously? You feel compassion for Bush? How about Cheney? Did you feel bad for Cheney when he shot his friend in the face?

[Matariki]

159. I have been thinking about the idea of compassion a lot lately.

I have much less of it than I would like. Compassion and 'feeling sorry' for someone are different, just as compassion and condoning someone's actions are different.

[redqueen]

213. "and, was I talking to you? "

You *do* know you're on a messageboard, right?

Jesus.

[Egalitariat]

193. Does Liberal equal "No Consequences" in your world?****

I'd say shunning by neighbors is pretty appropriate and definitely not cruel or unusual.

[AlCzervik]

220. i totally agree, it seems some people have more sympathy for Mrs. Drew than they do

for Megan.

Mrs. Drew brought the shunning on herself and i do feel bad for her in a way because somewhere along the way something went terribly wrong with her.

[BadgerLaw2010]

201. What about "liberal" requires compassion for willful scum?

This behavior was intentional and willful, by people who absolutely knew better. It is undeserving of compassion.

[Rabrrrrrr]

141. Good - it's good to see the community taking care of itself, finally. Now if we can get America

to do the same thing to the evil pieces of shit running the country, we'll be doing really well.

[Name removed]

145. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[alcibiades_mystery]

149. It's a completely despicable thing to say

You're no better than the mother in this case, if this is how you behave and think. Truly. Sickening.

[cali]

152. oh dear

I'll give you flak for it. Advocating the murder of this family is waaay over the line- it's sick. I'm sorry your childhood was so damaging. You need help.

What this woman did was awful. Shunning is appropriate. Mom actions aren't There are children in that house. You are clearly consumed by hate. That's not a good thing.

[Matariki]

154. Heavens, there's been more than one person on this thread who've said

she should 'eat shit and die'. Those words literally. And then spew more hatred when asked where all the hate is coming from.

[alcibiades_mystery]

156. I notice you didn't reply to my condemnation of the post

[Matariki]

160. why is this about you?

[alcibiades_mystery]

164. Oh, I dunno

Because you noted above that I may not feel any compassion if this woman is murdered, then completely ignored my post in which I condemned even the desire for such a thing. It's not about me, actually. It's about your complete inability to deal honestly or decently on this thread.

[Matariki]

167. Are you serious, or just fucking around?

I asked if you *would* feel compassion if she were murdered. I never said you wouldn't. Some people would, some people wouldn't.

[redqueen]

223. Are you serious?

Let me explain this to you... by asking that person if they would feel compassion in that situation, you are unquestionably asserting that *you, personally* believe that they actually might not.

That's an extremely ugly thing to imply about a person, and as this person explained to you, it borders on a personal attack. Presenting the sentiment in the form of a question doesn't change the meaning, and it won't fool anyone (except maybe yourself, apparently).

[redqueen]

218. Actually lots of sociopaths had nice childhoods.

I bristle at the notion that people who went through bad childhoods are somehow more predisposed to acting like an asshole / idiot. :)

[WildEyedLiberal]

162. Someone claiming to be Lori Drew has written a blog defending herself

With a really, really, really sick title I might add:

http://meganhaditcoming.blogspot.com/

"Megan had it coming"??? Ugh. :puke:

Either a) that blog is a hoax and someone has created it to make Drew look like an even more horrible and soulless or b) she really IS that horrible and soulless. The person alleging to be Drew basically commits a character assassination against a dead 13 year old. How fucking sick is that?

Edit: Just realized this blog and discussion thereof was posted upthread; I hadn't seen the story denying her involvement. Sorry folks.

[alcibiades_mystery]

165. It's fake, as noted above n/t

[WildEyedLiberal]

169. Yeah, didn't see those posts until after I posted

Oops. It seemed too heinous to actually be her, but at the same time, her "real" quotes are pretty callous so you never know.

[WillYourVoteBCounted]

163. I thought she engineered the hoax

for sure she knew all about it and played a big part in it.

It was horrible what happened.

[Alter Ego]

177. Fuck those people.

They're the reason that girl killed herself.

[rasputin1952]

181. What a society we live in...

There are some who defend an adult(s) for maliciouly attacking a 13 yo girl.

The fact remains, adults helped plan and execute attacks on a 13 yo girl, that eventually drove her to suicide.

I find these people reprehensible.

[LisaL]

182. Yes, what a society we live in. Here people upset over internet

harassment are harassing someone else over the internet. It's way out of control.
What facts do you think remain? At first there were claims the woman generated the profile, and send mean messages to this child.
Now the prosecutor says the woman did not generate this fake profile, and was not aware of the mean messages, but apparently facts don't matter to people much anyway.

[rasputin1952]

183. I can only go by what I see in the story...

I find it somewhat odd that someone could "not know", but there is some evidnce to the opposite. What's the deal w/the painted/busted up foosball table? Not something that just happens?

As a parent, I can tell almost immediately when something is buging a kid, whether they tell me about it or not. 13 yo's are right at the stage when they are very vulnerable, and can be very mean spirited as well. I find it difficult not to see where no one saw any of this coming. It becomes almost immediately apparent when close friends have a falling out, something had to spark this, and no one noticed?

The bottom line is that a tragedy could have been avoided, but either through direct negative action, or lack of positive action, a kid died.

[LisaL]

187. I can't even comprehend your post.

What are you talking about? Who was supposed to notice that someone is bugging a kid?

[rasputin1952]

264. The parents should have noticed something wrong...

things happen all of the time, but parents know when their kids are upset. The hard part is to get them to tell you what's bugging them.

[LisaL]

270. What parents? Those of the 13 year old who committed suicide?

Those of the other 13 year old who used to be a friend of a 13 year old who committed suicide? So, I still don't comprehend as to what you are trying to say.

[rasputin1952]

271. The parents of the victim. n/t

[LisaL]

272. Thanks for clearing it up.

[mrreowwr_kittty]

186. Link please. n/t

[LisaL]

188. I've already posted it in response to other posts.

[gatorboy]

194. Where?

[mrreowwr_kittty]

205. Post it again. You made the statement. Burden of proof is on you.

What I'm reading is that Drew has changed her story and is now blaming a young employee of hers for concocting the whole thing. http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/22096427/

Her initial statement to the police was that she had created the account herself and that others had joined in. You choose to believe the sick bully if you want, it doesn't matter. Lori Drew knew about the true origin of the MySpace account and didn't come clean to Megan's parents after the suicide, and remained silent a full year later. That in itself is reprehensible.

[LisaL]

260. Most of you seem to be not interested in what this woman actually

did.
But I will post the link regardless, even if it is an exercise in futility.

"On Monday, Banas, after re-investigating the case, found that there were no grounds to charge Drew, her daughter or Drew's 18-year-old employee who has been named as Ashley Grills.

He also said that contrary to earlier police reports, Lori Drew - who was 48 at the time - did not instigate the Josh Evans profile, nor did she use the fake profile to communicate with Megan. While she knew about the ruse, she was apparently unaware that the girls had used the Josh profile to attack her neighbour's daughter."


http://www.theage.com.au/news/web/net-vigilantes-target-myspace-mum/2007/12/07/1196812986566.html

That's what the prosecutor is saying-the woman did not instigate the profile and did not communicate with the girl.

[mrreowwr_kittty]

266. You seem to be interested in defending a lying sociopath

She knew about the ruse. She attended the funeral. According to her own account, she decided that she bore no blame because she found out that Megan had tried suicide before. She never informed Megan's parents of the true origin of the MySpace account. The parents had to find out from a mediator a year later.

BTW, she has changed her story since the initial statement she gave to the police. She is now trying to pin the whole thing on an emotionally distraught 18 year old.

lizzy, this isn't the first time you've played Devil's Advocate for reprehensible slimeballs. If you want to make a hobby out of that, it's your choice. For my part, I don't have to waste my time assisting you in that endeavor.

You are on my ignore list now.

[LisaL]

269. I am on your ignore list?

How will I ever get over this? And by the way, you've asked for a link. After a link was provided, you solution appears to be to ignore it, just as I expected. I don't know why I even bothered to provide this link in a first place.
:eyes:
As for this woman, the prosecutor is the one who seems to be confirming the woman did not set up this account, or sent mean messages to the girl.
Maybe you can explain as to why prosecutor would do that.
:eyes:

[Kingshakabobo]

221. .

Here's a link to the police report where Drew admits to the officer that she "instigated and monitored" the myspace account. It's very specific in that she says she instigated the account to monitor what Megan was saying about her daughter....it's not open to much "miscommunication" between the mother and police officer.

http://www.thesmokinggun.com/archive/years/2007/1120072megan2.html

Perhaps she is now using weasel words and saying she didn't "create" it - that certainly doesn't absolve from anything.

[Marrah_G]

184. She should be shunned

She should be ashamed of herself and her actions and if she really felt at all badly about what she did she would move away and give the parent of the child some peace.

She has earned every bit of scorn she has received.

[Dorian Gray]

196. Such a sad story....

she should have had more sense than become involved in the silliness of children.

[J-Lo Biafra]

198. Lori Drew is a sick, evil woman.

I read the "Megan Had it Coming" blog when I first heard of this news item. Lori Drew claims that Megan Meier was a hellion that actually bullied her kid. She tries to pass herself off as a kind, concerned mom who was innocently dragged into this mess when her daughter was bullied by this troubled girl.

I call bullshit. I don't care if Megan Meier was the spawn of Satan; the ends do not justify the means. It just goes to show that not all adults are really grownups.

[BadgerLaw2010]

199. Gee, what did she think would happen if she got found out? No sympathy.

[aikoaiko]

200. If Drew is telling the truth about how little she was involved, why didn't she

go to the Meiers, disclose what had happened, and beg for forgiveness for her part and letting it get so out of hand?

Drew is a low scum and she is lucky that shunning is all that has happened.

[bridgit]

208. Some people are just filled with cruelty, call them 'heathers', call them 'mean girls'...

there's too many Lori Drews in the world. If I were Lori Drew, or anyone that knew what she was doing i.e. her teenage daughter (the apple didn't fall far from that tree is my guess) and 'employee'; I'd be afraid to look into a mirror for fear of seeing dead people with the tortured faces I sculpted. But some people just don't give a shit about hurting other peoples feelings. In fact it is my belief they enjoy it.

[Sugar Smack]

219. A-FREAKIN'-MEN, sistah!!!

http://journals.democraticunderground.com/Sugar%20Smack/103

:hi: :hi: :hi: :hi: :hi: :hi: :hi: :hi: :hi: :hi: :hi: :hi: :hi: :hi: :hi: :hi: :hi:

[bridgit]

227. I knew my girl would understand, and thanks for your journal link cause you see the issue...

but having been the victim of such cruelties and having taken my little run at 'the great eternal' as a result of them, this story of Megan Meier is very sad to me :cry:

[Sugar Smack]

228. God.

:hug: I had considerations of that nature myself when I was a girl.

Easier to go to sleep forever than to wake up and dread the coming day.

[bridgit]

230. Eh, let's look at the upside; it's helped make me the fabulous drunk I am today!!

:bounce: :toast: :hug: :loveya:

[Sugar Smack]

231. Hey, from one fabulous drunk to another fabulous drunk................

*proste*:toast: :loveya: :loveya:

[AlCzervik]

224. well said.

:thumbsup:

[devilgrrl]

237. ...

:thumbsup:

[AuntPatsy]

209. Though this women was wrong in her actions, I believe the mob mentality that is driving her

out of her home has become no better.

[mrreowwr_kittty]

212. The threats and harrassment need to stop. That's not helping anything.

However, if the Drews had an ounce of decency they would voluntarily move out of the neighborhood to give the Meiers some peace. How would you like to have a constant reminder of the way your daughter was hounded and bullied into suicide down the street from you?

[AuntPatsy]

215. I agree with you that moving should be a priority but is it possible that they cannot afford to move

And as far as having an ounce of decency, its apparent they do not but it still does not allow me to condone such behavior that is now occuring towards the whole family. Is it possible that not all those residing in that home are guilty of being horrible persons?

Since when have neighbors become the judge and jury of this nations criminal acts? Our government is guilty of so much more and yet I don't see American citizens by the millions throwing bricks through the white house windows in order to ensure the occupants move out to another land altogether...

No, its easier to pick on someone who can't pick back.

[_testify_]

222. When you talk about picking on someone

are you referring to Megan or Lori Drew?

[AuntPatsy]

225. I mean picking on a whole family, not only one resides in that house and I do consider

such actions as picking but I also view such things as throwing bricks through someone's window a criminal act don't you because it could result in someone getting hurt.

[_testify_]

229. I was just asking who you thought was being picked on.

Asked, and answered, thanks.

[loyalsister]

238. I think the main issue has gotten lost in revenge

There are a lot of ignored variables.

Who knows what given person said to her at any given time during the week, and how it may have been interpreted.

In the first place, attitudes toward adolescent depression need to change.
Greater sensitivity and basic respect given individuals who have the experience of depression needs to become a piece of our collective consciousness or we will continue to have incidents like these.

From all accounts it sounds like there were a lot of contributions to what I must presume would have been a sense of dispair. Mainly, it seems that Megan felt badly about herself and then found herself subject to ridicule.

Media and public attitudes toward childhood obesity do not help. There must be other ways to address this issue. Telling self consciousness kids how unhealthy they are may not be helpful.

The adults are\were no help.
I do not believe myself that she had All of the information in that young woman's head. The adults who were close to her are probably suffering enough without the vengeance.

[AuntPatsy]

247. I really agree with you, there is so much more that meets the eye here and yet people

are ignoring that very fact, our society and even some Dur's go on and on about weight issues which is a huge factor in overweight teens becoming sever ly depressed....they fail to see anything besides their own blind prejudices along the lines of how easy it is for some to become obese and others not having that problem

I think it is not only this mothers fault, I think if we need to place blame than we need to do so much more effectively or another teen will surely find themselves in the same despair as this poor young girl was....

Its obvious that this tradegy is not going to help another young person in the same frame mind unless every single aspect of her life is analyzed and the unwitting accomplice of today's so called need for perfection or be smeared and or ridiculed is stopped....

[npincus]

211. pass me the world's smallest violin.

[Clark2008]

217. Good. eom

[gollygee]

226. It's like I tell my 5-year-old

If you are mean to one person, other people might not want to be with you either.

[Tommy_Carcetti]

232. They made their own bed

Now they are going to have to sleep in it. Of course, I wouldn't want any violence to come against them, but if I were them, I'd probably be looking at renting a U-Haul right now.

[WinkyDink]

234. Shunned?? That family better be GRATEFUL they're being shunned.

[Beelzebud]

241. You reap what you sow.

Fuck her. She should be sitting in jail right now. She's lucky to get off so clean.

[DadOf2LittleAngels]

243. Shunning is fine

Shun her, hold vigils but dont repay her with more violence.

No bricks through windows, no hacking her cell phone, threats of violence...

[NorthernSpy]

248. It's dangerous to deny justice...

People start taking matters into their own hands. All of this is entirely predictable.

[Xithras]

254. Indeed. It's part of the social compact.

Up until a few hundred years ago, most people dealt with these sorts of things on their own. Someone killed your child? Honor demanded that you kill them.

The social compact changed. People gave up their right to punish those who wronged them in exchange for having society do it through a justice system. This was healthier for the victim, fairer for the accused, and reduced the incidents of people being killed wrongly for crimes they didn't commit.

Still, every social compact has two sides. The people have a duty to eschew vigilantism and let the government do it, and the government has a duty to fulfill its side of the compact by prosecuting those who commit crimes.

When the government fails to uphold its part of the deal, it's understandable why some communities decide to take things into their own hands. The compact disintegrates and both sides go their own way.

[Cronopio]

252. The police report doesn't answer one basic question about Drew.

Why would she volunteer that information to the police if she were mentally together enough to pull that kind of prank in the first place? If she were the sociopath that many people believe she is, that is the last thing that I can see her doing - going to the police and giving them information that she *has* to know would only confirm rumors about her complicity in the suicide of a young girl and very possibly bring legal action against her. The assumption just doesn't make sense.

And where did the rumors about her complicity start? From the stated facts of the case, no one but Drew and her small group of cohorts even knew that they were faking a MySpace persona. The cohorts wouldn't have been motivated to make any of the facts known, and Drew didn't mention where she thought they got the information - from the report, she sounded surprised that they knew.

Sociopaths who are proven to do things like this should be punished up to the level of drawing and quartering, but I'm not willing to sacrifice the benefits of "innocence until proven guilty by a reasonable doubt," and until someone presents evidence that explains why Drew would offer the police self-incriminating evidence that would only confirm and justify the harassment she was receiving, the possibility that a third party framed her and is getting away with it still exists in my mind.

[Skittles]

255. the hoax did not cause the suicide

Megan's death was caused by depression and a lack of coping skills; it is never the last thing that happens in a person's life that is the sole cause of suicide. The group that created the online page certainly had ugly intentions and hideously poor judgment. Whatever the legality of their guilt, their standing in the community is irreparably broken and for their own safety and out of respect towards Megan's family they need to move.

[Darth_Kitten]

261. You don't push a physically challenged person into traffic........

and hope they dodge the oncoming cars and trucks okay.....you don't PLAY with somebody with psychological and/or mental issues and expect them to be okay and safe.

People go through life never seeming to think that their actions EVER affect anybody else. It's time they go a wake-up call.

[bullwinkle428]

262. Bump...story to be featured on 20/20, coming up in a few minutes (n/t)