The only solution is universal health care that completely covers mental health

[mdmc]

we can't ban guns and we can't anticipate every illegal act

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=389&topic_id=705323

You are only as safe and stable as your neighbor, the gunman

Recently in Orange County, NY there has been a spike in violent crime. Two murders, an attempted rape (in a church), and a bank robbery. These crimes were all committed by mentally ill people that were discharged from state hospitals into the streets.
The politician call for more cops, but these crimes could not be stopped. They could only have been prevented through adequate mental health treatment. All 4 of these criminals were law abiding when properly medicated and treated for their illness.

anything less is uncivilized

[madrchsod]

1. agreed

and we will never have universal health care in this country

[TZ]

2. I agree with you 100%

And I genuinely don't understand why so many people think just throwing people in jail without access to the needed mental health treatment is going to change anything.

[SoCalDem]

3. real jobs for young people might prevent a lot of mental illnesses

When you are 19, and living on your own, or "staying with a friend", a McDonald's job is a very depressing fact of life. I doubt that mental health counseling can change that fact..

Young "loners" like that guy used to be able to get jobs in factories that paid enough for them to actually have a life.. They could learn on the job, and join a union.. They could make a livable wage, make some friends, and have a purpose to getting up every day. It was blue collar, manual labor, BUT it was a job that was honest work, and was an entry into adult life..with a family, a home, vacations, kids, a car..you know.. a normal life..

Those jobs are gone, baby, gone..and a whole segment of our society, now have nowhere to go except to soul-deadening, low-wage, dead-end service jobs with NO future.. It's not surprising to me that there are so many depressed people these days..

[TZ]

4. not necessarily

I agree that good jobs will help, but in the case of schizophrenia (like the Va Tech shooter) thats not going to help

[mdmc]

5. actually, I think that employment is great for schizos

The trouble becomes securing supportive employment that can be maintained by the ill person.

Once a schizophrenic becomes honest with their illness, they can secure job coaching and opportunities that will allow them to maintain employment. It is very difficult to accept illness and admit it, especially to potential employers. But once this (huge) gap is crossed, a schizophrenic can maintain employment. It is all about developing skills and managing your symptoms. Once one compensates for their illness (through learning skills and symptom management techniques, and being supported by treatment providers), the world is their oyster!

Lets look at it another way. 150 years ago all mental patients were employed on some level. The mental hospitals that existed at that time were self sufficient communities were everything was produced by either staff or patients. And this was before psychoactive medications were available!

[TZ]

6. umm 150 years ago

Mental patients weren't treated...they were thrown into god awful places and tortured because people thought they were possessed....

[mdmc]

7. Prior to the Civil War, we actually had a movement for compassion

http://www.webster.edu/~woolflm/dorotheadix.html

After the civil war, the army (actually, retired army officers) took over the mental health hospital system and turned it into what you describe.

But before the civil war there was a movement to bring compassion to the hospitals. And during this time all of the patients did some sort of "gainful activity", as their symptoms allowed.

Schizophrenics were hospital tailors, librarians, and farm hands. And this was before good medications.

[pop goes the weasel]

8. no

The institutional reform movement had already begun in both the US and Europe. States vied with each other to erect state of the art asylums where they hoped that rest, exposure to nice scenery, and supportive staff would make the difference for those who were considered lunatics. The notion of possession had dropped out of favor in the early 18th century. In the US, the significant figure in creating reform was Dorothea Dix. The institutional approach rapidly became a nightmare, though, as states discovered that the number of people with mental illness was far greater than they had counted on, and funding did not keep up with demand. The notion of healing respite was replaced with callous warehousing. Sounds familiar, doesn't it?

[mdmc]

9. I don't think it was overpopulation, my friend

I think that the end of the civil war resulted in a military frame of mind taking over the hospitals.

[pop goes the weasel]

14. I think the context is larger

The problem of mental illness didn't turn out to be as easily remedied as had been thought, and was more widespread than realized at first--and artificially inflated due to the influence of industrialization. With the end of the Civil War, the commitment to reform of all sorts waned--even the Big Issues of civil rights and equality were abandoned, even repudiated. On top of all that, the late 19th century saw a cultural change toward machine-like conformity that has lasted until recently, and still has effects. The Taylorization of the workplace was matched in society with the pseudo-science of "social Darwinism." This justified the removal of all square pegs. That military men were put in charge of institutions was a reflection of society. The military men chosen for these positions espoused ideas of regimentation and efficiency. Not all old officers would have shared that outlook, but the ones chosen did. Interestingly, ever since the Civil War, the prevailing American approach to social and health problems has been to declare "war" on it. It's been one damned "war" or "crusade" ever since, and people end up losing their constitutional rights as a result.

But I'm interested in being dissuaded. Why do you think the military influence was more cause than effect?

[mdmc]

15. From what I understand, once the civil war was over, many of the

officers and generals began running the mental institutions. These military men turned the mental institutions into places of strict discipline. Compassion and empathy were replaced with restraints and torture.

Of course, this led these institutions to become horrible places of torture, not of recovery. Eventually they got shut down and nothing has really replaced them.

Just another example of republicans ruining good social institutions, me thinks.

[pop goes the weasel]

17. still, looks like an artifact of culture shift

Prior to the Civil War, there was a widespread belief in the perfectability of humanity. The war itself ate away at that idealism, as did the Reconstruction, which wore down the thin resolve for the establishment of equality that abolitionists had so carefully built up. It is not surprising in such a cultural climate that the earlier humanitarians were ousted in favor of military veterans, who were chosen precisely to bring military "efficiency" to social institutions. If the idea had been to bring in military veterans who were also humanitarians, surely such men could have been found.

[jpgray]

10. I agree. On a related note, Reagan was a horrible old monster.

[mdmc]

16. wORST president of my lifetime

:kick:

[allthingsimportant]

11. AGREE

You are 100% right. We also need to stop the stupid stigma that therapy has. How many people are in therapy and are ashamed to admit it?

[mdmc]

12. Welcome to DU my friend

:kick::patriot:

Any thoughts on how to reduce the stigma?

[allthingsimportant]

13. thanks

been a longtime lurker but decided it was time to join.

well for one if it was readily available I believe more people would be willing to get help. just the increase in numbers should make people more comfortable wit the idea.

[upi402]

18. yes, and Kucinich would do it

he's looking like the only one that would do anything that needs to be done.

[SoCalDem]

19. The dirty little secret about the meds..

MANY people with mental illnesses hit the crisis mode before they go to a doctor( IF they go)..once they are in the system and start getting meds, they often do NOT work for a while, and many times one has to try several types and dosages until the right one "takes"..MONTHS can go by.. at at $100+ an hour and more for the medicating psychiatrist (psychologists cannot write prescriptions). many patients just give up or run out of money.

Depressed people are also unmotivated and sometimes need many "pushes" to get into treatment and to stay in treatment.

and the meds can be VERY expensive.

Even "good medical plans" often have high copays, and if a patient gets a med that works, and they start to feel "normal", they often quit taking the medication because it costs too much, or they think they are "cured"..

Unless they have a very diligent family member or two who watch them like a hawk, and are prepared to intevene, at the first sign, many of these people fall deeper and harder than when they started..

They may lose the job that provides the insurance, and often they have not got the energy to even try to get any other assistance..