Everyone's talking about Venezuela, but....

[cali]

yesterday there was an election in Russia in which Putin's party "won" big, and there's little doubt that there was massive cheating. This is not a good sign for the future of Russia. And Putin is using the results of the vote to leverage his way into staying in power. Venezuela's democracy is sound. Russia's isn't.

Putin's Party Wins Russian Election

Monday December 3, 2007 11:01 AM


By VLADIMIR ISACHENKOV

Associated Press Writer

MOSCOW (AP) - European election monitors said Monday that Russia's parliamentary ballot was unfair, hours after President Vladimir Putin's party swept 70 percent of the seats in the new legislature.

The victory paves the way for Putin to remain Russia's de facto leader even after he leaves office next spring.

Sunday's vote followed a tense Kremlin campaign that relied on a combination of persuasion and intimidation to ensure victory for the United Russia party and for Putin, who has used a flood of oil revenues to move his country into a more assertive position on the global stage.

Luc van den Brande, who headed the delegation from the Parliamentary Assembly of the Council of Europe said that officials had brought the ``overwhelming influence of the president's office and the president'' to bear on the campaign, and that ``administrative resources'' had been used to influence the outcome.


<snip>

http://www.guardian.co.uk/worldlatest/story/0,,-7122526,00.html

[MADem]

1. Back to the Cold War. Everything old is new again... nt

[Virginia Dare]

12. Except this time, it's both Russia and China...n/t

[MADem]

13. Yeah, and they don't hate each other as much. The bright spot is

that the Russkies don't have those satellite states firmly in hand anymore.

[mmonk]

2. Ah yes, Putin and the oligarchs.

You're correct.

[H2O Man]

3. Nobody Told Me.

Everybody's talking and no one says a word

Everybody's making love and no one really cares

There's nazis in the bathroom just below the stairs.
Always something happening and nothing going on

There's always something happening cooking and nothing in the pot

They're starving back in China so finish what you got.
They're starving back in China so finish what you got.
Nobody told me there'd be days like these

Nobody told me there'd be days like these

Nobody told me there'd be days like these

Strange days indeed
strange days indeed.
Everybody's runnin' and no one makes a move

Everyone's a winner
and no one seems to lose.
There's a little yellow idol to the north of Katmandu.
Everybody's flying and no one leaves the ground

Everybody's crying and no one makes a sound.
There's a place for us in movies you just gotta stay around.

Nobody told me there'd be days like these

Nobody told me there'd be days like these

Nobody told me there'd be days like these

Strange days indeed
most peculiar
Mama.
Everybody's smoking and no one's getting high

Everybody's flying and never touch the sky

There's Ufo's over New York and I ain't too surprised.
Nobody told me there'd be days like these

Nobody told me there'd be days like these

Nobody told me there'd be days like these

Strange days indeed
most peculiar. Mama.

(Lennon)

[rpannier]

4. While there is no doubt that there are/were problems with the elections in Russia

People need to start accepting a few facts:

1. Putin is immensely popular in Russia

2. His popularity, for the most part, stems from the chaos of the 90's brought on by the failure of the 'drunken dancing bear' Boris Yeltsin -- my Russian sister-in-law's brother refers to Yeltsin that way.

3. Russia is once again one of the three or four major players in the world today and many Russianslike that

4. The economy has stabilized and grown under Putin

5.Russians, for the most part, like strong leaders.

[Donald Ian Rankin]

5. Hmm.

1) has some truth in it, although he's nowhere near as popular as these elections would suggest.

2) is very debateable - the efficiency of his propaganda machine must also be a contestant for most significant factor.

3) is a problem that needs solving, given Putin's attitude to human rights - the West needs to be thinking about how to reduce Russian influence.

4) I am very suspicious of indeed, although I'm not sufficiently good at economics to refute it outright.

5), like 1), may well be essentially true.

[rpannier]

14. Example

After Yeltsin was in power the government froze apartment prices for senior citizens at roughly the equivalent of 10.00 a month US.

When wealthier people bought up those apartments they were unable to raise prices as long as the older people lived in them. So, these owners hired people to throw these old people out the windows -- killing them.

You may, or may not remember the stories from the 'liberal' media about the high rate of suicides among the elderly in Russia during this time.

My sister-in-law's mother (Who lives outside of Moscow) told me that story and several others when at my older brother's wedding.
Her family doesn't like Putin, but they loathe Yeltsin and what went on in Russia during the 90's.

[gateley]

6. Yeah - Reuters released a story yesterday saying the U.S. URGES FRAUD PROBE!

My GOD! Do they even HEAR themselves? :spray:

[cali]

7. no, they don't.

or maybe they're that cynical.

[gateley]

8. I really just think they're that stupid. (I was referring to Bushco, by the way --

in the U.S. recommending a probe -- not Reuters. I realize I didn't make myself clear on that point.)

[cali]

9. I realized you were talking about bushco

You were clear. I just can never decide if they're cynical or stupid.

[gateley]

10. I vote for stupid. nt

[independentpiney]

11. Putin is good for Russia and her interests.

and fits in well with the course of Russian history.This isn't a good sign for the future of democracy in Russia, but that's not the same as not being good for the future of Russia. As another poster pointed out many Russians like a strong,somewhat authoritarian leader, and they like the idea of economic stability and a return to their historical role as a world power. From a Russian standpoint, those issues outweigh free and fair elections or continued movement towards the western-style democracy that hasn't worked out all that well for them to date anyway.