If a Venezuelan citizen says that Chavez is a dictator, what should happen to them?

[LoZoccolo]

[LakeSamish706]

1. Why should anything happen to them? Venezuela is not a Dictatorship...

Chavez was voted into power with an overwhelming majority....

[LoZoccolo]

4. I don't know, but there's one person who said that something should happen so far.

I voted for the second option.

[pauldg0]

72. Again!!!

He does it to everyone.....You know f______'s everyone?????

He likes it!!!

[blondeatlast]

2. Abstain, but pass the salt, please.

:popcorn:

[cali]

3. yum

:popcorn: make mine buttered.

[RaleighNCDUer]

5. What's the point of this?

Has anybody suggested that Chavez is punishing Venezualan citizens who call him a dictator?

Or is this just a 'bash Chavez' thread?

[burythehatchet]

7. The latter.

Idle hands are the devil's workshop, as I once heard said.

[LoZoccolo]

8. Why do people ask me for the point of my polls?

The point of my polls is to see how people answer the question.

[RaleighNCDUer]

12. Because the questions are bogus?

Push polls designed to see who agrees with your lies?

[LoZoccolo]

17. Well, I disagree.

I don't know of any decree by Chavez to punish people who call him a dictator unless they are non-citizens, then he has explicitly threatened them.

I also believe in freedom of speech to ask questions like the one in this poll, and to question leaders.

[EFerrari]

18. You realize that Venezuela didn't even try most of the coup plotters

don't you?

You may believe in freedom of speech but you don't recognize it.

[Selatius]

25. FDR didn't try any of the coup plotters who attempted to overthrow him either.

Just a fragment of history to toss into the bin, there.

[Name removed]

23. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[LoZoccolo]

32. He threatened foreigners who criticize him back in July.

http://www.cnn.com/2007/WORLD/americas/07/23/venezuela.chavez.ap

Of course because it's in the U.S. media, it can safely be ignored by apologists for Chavez, even if it was said directly during his block of state television propaganda.

[EFerrari]

34. What part of self defense do you not understand?

The USA hasn't stopped harassing his government for a minute and it probably never will.

Apologists, my @ss. Tell that to the millions of slaughtered people of Latin America who got between American corporations and their dollars.

[LoZoccolo]

38. Is that like how we need the USA PATRIOT Act to fight the terrorists?

Everything changed after 9/11! We now have to monitor what books people take out of the library! What part of self defense do you not understand?

[EFerrari]

40. No, it's not like that. And, there is no equivalent fascism

in Venezuela.

[LoZoccolo]

41. It is not supression of civil liberties when left-wing demagogues do it.

lol

[EFerrari]

42. There are no civil liberties being suppressed in Venezuela.

All you "he's a dictator" people need to learn how to read the news before they haul you and your families off to internment camps yourselves. Your biggest problem isn't democracy in Latin America, it's your own naivete about your own government.

[LoZoccolo]

46. This thread is about Chavez, not about Bush*.

I'd be happy to castigate Bush* for curtailment of my civil liberties in another thread. But if he were to add this unsubtle Chavez stuff to the USA PATRIOT Act, you'd not only see his approval go down below 15%, but people protesting every week in the streets.

[EFerrari]

47. All BS aside, when I see those crowds of people in the streets of Caracas

it just makes me hurt -- in comparison to how we just rolled over for the Patriot Act.

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

37. Just look at what Chavez did to Cat Stevens.

That monster.

[EFerrari]

45. The American Taliban was Chavez's idea.

We just stole it.

[Warren Stupidity]

53. He threatened to toss out a visiting official

"The Venezuelan leader's statements came after Manuel Espino, president of Mexico's conservative ruling party, criticized Chavez during a recent pro-democracy forum in Caracas."

Your poll is bullshit. Is that all you've got?

[TahitiNut]

66. Be aware than CNN (International) is associated Globovision ..

... and Globovision has been cooperating with the CIA PsyOps to foment an overthrow of Chavez' government. Globovision has been obsessive about smearing Chavez ... and yet they continue to enjoy the benefits of their broadcast license. (Just as a reminder: Dan Rather and Mary Mapes were fired for far, far less.)

:shrug:

[alittlelark]

77. It's a 'Bash Chavez' w/a strawman thread

.....sigh......

[Moochy]

90. some people just do it for the love of the game

Dont hate the player... hate the..

ah what the hell go ahead.

[burythehatchet]

6. You should be polling for Hillary. This is right up her alley.

[Moochy]

9. Push it Real Good!

How's that Push Poll consulting biz going for you, Mighty Hoof?

[LoZoccolo]

10. I retired in 1994 at the age of 19.

I had to go back to college and I hated the work.

[stimbox]

11. I wish I could find a pic of Nader wearing a Chavez t-shirt.

LoZoccolo's favorite boogeymen.

[stimbox]

13. Where's the let's punish LoZoccolo choice? n/t

[LoZoccolo]

14. I don't know, but I know how someone can click the "reward LoZoccolo" choice!

That would be to kick the thread by replying to it.

[stimbox]

91. No, that would be to recommend it and no one has done it thus far. n/t

[NNN0LHI]

15. Depends if that citizen is being paid to collaborate with the CIA or not

If an American citizen is caught collaborating with the KGB in this country they are tried as spies and executed.

See Julius and Ethel Rosenberg.

Don

[LoZoccolo]

16. I would think that that would be a separate crime, right? n/t

[mmonk]

19. I'm not from there.

But since I belong to Amnesty International, I would say nothing should be done to punish anyone.

[LeftishBrit]

20. Nothing.

If an American citizen says Bush is a dictator - what should happen to them?

Nothing, again.

Citizens should have the right to say whatever they want about their leaders; otherwise the leader is indeed bordering on dictatorship.

[JackRiddler]

21. Should? What DOES happen to them?

They don't get a death squad knocking at their door, unlike many of their compatriots in Colombia. They do get lots of television time, freedom to protest (long as they don't riot and shoot Chavistas, or try to overthrow the government), and a vote on the probable losing side in the Sunday referendum.

[Guy Whitey Corngood]

22. They should be forced to learn English (if they don't speak it already) and

read your daily posts. That should be punishment enough.

[Bucky]

26. Ironically, this is what's already happening. Lots of Venezuelans with the means are fleeing to here

I've met dozens of Venezualans here in Houston. Except for one or two rich boys, all of them are middle class families who are leaving that country and taking their personal assets with them, relocating here in the US. Chavez is doing some good with his anti poverty & health programs, but he's driving the most talented and most ambitious people out of the country. That can't be a good thing.

[redqueen]

28. Just like Cuba. (nt)

[EFerrari]

30. The most talented and ambitious people?

Or the people who depended on the old oppressive system for their living?

And I don't ask lightly. My own family was one of those in another part of Latin America as late as the seventies.

[Bucky]

31. The ones I meet were not "connected" at all.

They're small business people, professionals (one's an ex-surgeon working as a medical secretary until she can get all her certifications), and a few college students. To a person they loathe what Chavez is doing and think of him in pretty much the same terms we think of Bush. They all hate Bush, too, by the by.

They know a con artist when they see one.

[EFerrari]

33. I think if you push on that you'll learn something different.

One wing of my family, also small business, was egging Reagun to invade El Salvador because their business model depended on the old economy of exclusion and oppression. (And, I adore my uncle Charlie but that's the truth.) They laundered their money in Miami and watched until they could figure out which was the better place to land, when the dust settled.

The better place to land for them wasn't necessarily the better place for people in general in El Salvador.

[Guy Whitey Corngood]

50. I also know plenty of venezuelans. Many of them have been leaving since 1999.

This is nothing new. There are plenty of talented people there and they don't have to be middle class. From the moment this man was elected they've been saying the same thing as if stormtroopers are going to bust down their doors and take all their shit. That hasn't been the case. A lot of it is about self interest. For example my friend's wife hated President Chavez's guts. The minute her uncle started getting some government contracts and making a lot of money I didn't hear a peep from her.

I don't know what's going to happen after this referendum, but I do hope there will eventually be some kind of reconciliation between the different factions.

[Selatius]

24. Freedom of speech. People should be allowed to say whatever they want.

For the record, I consider myself a qualified supporter of Chavez and his social programs to combat poverty and rectify the tremendous wealth gap in the nation.

[redqueen]

27. ZOMG ... CHAVEZ!

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

29. They should turn off Fox News.

[Guaranteed]

35. There are DUers who actually think people exercising what we know here in the U.S.

as free speech rights should be PUNISHED for doing so?

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

36. Here's a picture of one, right here.

Isn't he awful?

[Guaranteed]

39. I'm repeating the exact answer to the exact question.

I haven't distorted anything.

Do YOU think that a Venezuelan who calls Chavez a dictator- whether he is a dictator or not, as that should have nothing to do with your answer- should be PUNISHED for doing so?

Do you UNDERSTAND what freedom of speech is?

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

43. I've been beating her, off and on, for the last five years or so.

Take my wife, please.

[EFerrari]

44. LOL

:rofl:

[Guaranteed]

48. You seem to be having trouble separating the "truth" issue

from the "What do you do with people who disagree with you politically, whether they are wrong or not" question. Would you like to address THAT one, the second one, the one the OP brought up?

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

49. The truth? The TRUTH?

The truth is we're going to Caracas to croak a scag baron named Savage Henry. Why? Because he ripped us off.

And you know what that means.

[Truth2Tell]

59. Bravo Hooligan! Bravo. n/t

[Guaranteed]

63. Yeah, he sure avoided the issue awesomely.

Fuck free speech, right?

[Truth2Tell]

67. I don't see Hooligan suggesting he

opposes free speech anywhere in this thread?

But fuck fair representation right? And fuck Chavez too right? Fuckin' pinko!

[Guaranteed]

69. Well, as long as he didn't vote for the first choice.

Because, you're right, he's avoided the issue very well.

[Truth2Tell]

70. So you're saying

you think we should invade Venezuela and that you love Bush?

I haven't seen you say the opposite, so I must be right. :shrug:

[Guaranteed]

71. No, I'll go ahead and address that issue and say "No."

See how easy it is to be clear?

[Truth2Tell]

73. Sooo... as long as someone

doesn't immidiately dispute the phony words that you put in their mouth, then they must really believe what you say they do? Misrepresenting what someone says is just fine as long as they don't correct you forthwith? OK, Got it.

[Guaranteed]

74. What phoney words?

I'm sorry, was he or was he NOT just DEFENDING PUNISHING PEOPLE FOR POLITICAL SPEECH, ASSHOLE??

[Truth2Tell]

76. No, my friend, he wasn't. I'm done. n/t

[Guaranteed]

79. Yes, he was. And GOODBYE. nt

[ConsAreLiars]

51. Do you consider being regarded as ignorant and being laughed at "punishment"?

Or maybe a third option in the poll: BwaHaHaHah!!

[Bakunin]

52. All counter-revolutionary activities should be punished.

I am with SFexpat2000 on this, anything that man does is allright by me.

[ConsAreLiars]

56. That may be your view, but don't attribute it to sfexpat2000.

Certainly not one that would be shared by Bakunin, who defined himself by his opposition to power from above. You may want to read a bit more about his views: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bakunin .

Or maybe pick another nick.

(edit capitalization error)

[EFerrari]

58. When people have no facts, they resort to smears. Cool. n/t

[Truth2Tell]

60. Nice try. I guess we know

not to take those yes votes seriously now.

People here aren't as think as you guys dumb they are.

[otherlander]

65. 35 posts and

a picture of Che...

Hmmm...

[otherlander]

54. Who the hell

are the nine people who voted for the first one?

[Truth2Tell]

62. I dunno

Could there be anyone who wants Chavez supporters to look like authoritarians?

Anyone?

:shrug:

[EFerrari]

78. I once put my kid on a time out.

:rofl:

[DRoseDARs]

86. I'm number 10, because I could.

:)

[Balbus]

55. Well, as it stands now, they get shot.

I consider that punished... :shrug:

[EFerrari]

57. That's simply false. n/t

[TahitiNut]

68. That's an outright falsehood.

:eyes:

[Moochy]

88. I feel punished by your sloppy critical thinking

"lies lies lies yeah."

[Liberal In Texas]

61. One of the stupidist polls ever.

We just have to have a Hall of Stupid Polls someplace back in the dusty archives.

...where they should be moved immediately.

[Guaranteed]

64. Well, it sure is eye-opening to see that *9* DUers, at least,

think it's alright to punish someone for expressing a purely political opinion.

[Bakunin]

75. Or they might just be mocking a silly poll question with sarcasm.

You decide.

[Guaranteed]

80. That's always possible,

but that's not the impression I got from the responses here.

Some people seem to be saying that since (in their opinion) Chavez ISN'T a dictator, it's okay to punish someone for calling him that.

[EFerrari]

81. I'm sure there are remedial reading courses on line. n/t

[Guaranteed]

82. Try not only reading, but comprehending the meaning of, this:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=389&topic_id=2376335&mesg_id=2380963

The subject line there is taking issue with the form of the poll question, because the poster apparently thinks that it assumes that Chavez is a dictator- and thus is like a "push poll." This particular poster was throwing a lot of these terms of argument around, not always with accuracy.

The inference from that response to my question is that the truth value of the statement "Chavez is a dictator" has some bearing on whether someone should be punished for making it. I.E., the OP posting the poll is ASSUMING that Chavez IS a dictator, and trying to set everyone up! Boy, he's tricky.

But what I attempted to point out with my next post is that the truth value of the statement is of no consequence whatsoever. Whether the statement is true or not, you don't punish people for making political speech. I think the OP was well aware of this, as well. Maybe others aren't, though.

[DRoseDARs]

83. If a Venezuelan questions Chavez, clearly they're conspiring with Spain and CNN to assasinate him.

IM SERIES!!1 times infinity billion! I for one vote FOR punishment like a good little Chavbot. :crazy:

[Moochy]

89. Trapped you were by Lozo's clever poll structure

I had to read twice before I fell into a similar trap crafted for us weakminded chavbots.

whiirrr. click.. "No Es Computar! Una Error Del Syntactico!"

[Liberal In Texas]

84. Or, there just might be people here who like to stir shit up for the hell of it.

Not Freepers, or the like.

They just like to see discord.

[Moochy]

87. See Discord or Sow?

big donor for the win!

[DRoseDARs]

85. Pro or Con Chavez, this thread I'm linking to is MUCH more fun...

It has something for EVERYONE! ;)

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=389x2378097

[Name removed]

92. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Solar_Power]

93. Behead the infidel

LOL