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donsu (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Nov-28-07 12:08 PM Original message |
CIA Venezuela Destabilization Memo Surfaces |
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Cessna Invesco Palin (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Nov-28-07 12:12 PM Response to Original message |
1. Where is the document? |
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slackmaster (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Nov-28-07 04:59 PM Response to Reply #1 |
26. Yes, me too - Someone saying "I have a document" just doesn't do it for me |
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LittleClarkie (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Nov-29-07 03:45 AM Response to Reply #26 |
51. Don't suppose "Smoking Gun" would have this. |
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Cessna Invesco Palin (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Nov-29-07 08:00 AM Response to Reply #51 |
63. If the reports are to be believed... |
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slackmaster (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Nov-29-07 11:02 AM Response to Reply #63 |
73. They're probably still working on translating it into Spanish then back into English |
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Supersedeas (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Nov-29-07 12:28 PM Response to Reply #1 |
85. no document creates no link |
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acmavm (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Nov-28-07 12:15 PM Response to Original message |
2. Typical isn't it? And all the anti-Chavez people will still swear that |
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Cessna Invesco Palin (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Nov-28-07 12:16 PM Response to Reply #2 |
3. I would like to see a bit more evidence... |
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acmavm (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Nov-28-07 12:23 PM Response to Reply #3 |
7. The only convenience we have here is the fact that the US |
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Cessna Invesco Palin (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Nov-28-07 12:30 PM Response to Reply #7 |
8. I'm not arguing that. |
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EFerrari (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Nov-28-07 12:48 PM Response to Reply #8 |
11. What are the "pro-Chavez" outlets, aside from the Cuban paper? |
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malaise (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Nov-28-07 04:29 PM Response to Reply #7 |
18. Bingo |
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Warren Stupidity (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Nov-28-07 04:33 PM Response to Reply #3 |
19. You've of course never needed any evidence to announce |
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Cessna Invesco Palin (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Nov-29-07 06:10 AM Response to Reply #19 |
56. Find one post where I've ever called him a dictator... |
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LittleClarkie (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Nov-29-07 03:46 AM Response to Reply #3 |
52. I'd like it better if it weren't Counterpunch. How about Venezelan Analysis? |
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Cessna Invesco Palin (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Nov-29-07 06:13 AM Response to Reply #52 |
57. That's what I mean. |
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countryjake (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Nov-29-07 06:19 AM Response to Reply #57 |
59. How well did you look? |
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Cessna Invesco Palin (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Nov-29-07 07:10 AM Response to Reply #59 |
61. Yeah, I see that between then & now it's gone all over the place. n/t |
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countryjake (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Nov-29-07 08:09 AM Response to Reply #61 |
64. I trust Eva Golinger to put up the facts fairly fast... |
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Hell Hath No Fury (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Nov-28-07 12:21 PM Response to Reply #2 |
5. Our aversion to... |
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EFerrari (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Nov-28-07 01:33 PM Response to Reply #5 |
15. It's unreal to predict it and watch it unfold. |
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DutchLiberal (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Nov-29-07 02:42 PM Response to Reply #5 |
96. Bush probably figured: "well, it got Kissinger the Nobel Peace Prize, so why wouldn't I take a shot? |
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LittleClarkie (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Nov-29-07 03:47 AM Response to Reply #2 |
53. Why do you label those who might have criticism "anti"? |
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cali (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Nov-29-07 06:18 AM Response to Reply #2 |
58. Counterpunch has a reliability track record |
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Cessna Invesco Palin (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Nov-29-07 08:16 AM Response to Reply #58 |
65. It's all over the place now. |
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Peace Patriot (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Nov-29-07 10:00 AM Response to Reply #58 |
69. Counterpunch is one of the few sources of well-reasoned, fact-based opinion and |
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Union Thug (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Nov-28-07 12:18 PM Response to Original message |
4. Imperialist nations will do all they can to destabilize up and coming socialist countries |
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HiFructosePronSyrup (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Nov-28-07 12:22 PM Response to Original message |
6. I thought Bush said he wanted to spread democracy. |
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High Plains (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Nov-28-07 12:38 PM Response to Original message |
9. Here's a Spanish language version of the memo: |
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leveymg (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Nov-28-07 12:58 PM Response to Reply #9 |
13. Here's an English-language translation of the memo (Babblefish) |
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seafan (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Nov-28-07 04:58 PM Response to Reply #13 |
25. Another source seems to confirm portions of this translation: |
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Cessna Invesco Palin (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Nov-29-07 08:17 AM Response to Reply #25 |
66. Why all this translation? |
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Judi Lynn (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Nov-29-07 10:49 AM Response to Reply #25 |
71. Thanks for highlighting these areas. Very helpful. It should be very interesting seeing what Bush's |
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slackmaster (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Nov-29-07 11:09 AM Response to Reply #71 |
77. It's even more hideous if you translate that into German then back into English |
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slackmaster (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Nov-29-07 11:06 AM Response to Reply #25 |
75. I guess the Venezuelan government is still working on the English language original document |
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slackmaster (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Nov-29-07 11:05 AM Response to Reply #13 |
74. Reminds me of a game people played in a Philip K. Dick novel |
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slackmaster (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Nov-29-07 11:08 AM Response to Reply #13 |
76. Here's another version I found |
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Cessna Invesco Palin (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Nov-29-07 11:16 AM Response to Reply #76 |
80. Were you ever a fan of NewsRadio? |
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Judi Lynn (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Nov-29-07 11:29 AM Response to Reply #76 |
83. Didn't you notice "leveymg" already posted this at post #13, yesterday, at the beginning of the |
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slackmaster (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Nov-29-07 01:47 PM Response to Reply #83 |
87. If only for a brief moment, I owned Judi Lynn |
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EFerrari (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Nov-28-07 12:46 PM Response to Original message |
10. In the last hit piece, they trotted out an ex-wife. It's a blitz right now. |
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Selatius (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Nov-28-07 12:51 PM Response to Original message |
12. I doubt they'll defeat the referendum. If the Venezuelans want it, they will get it. |
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EFerrari (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Nov-28-07 01:06 PM Response to Reply #12 |
14. I'm really afraid we're almost there. If the referendum passes |
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spoony (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Nov-28-07 02:15 PM Response to Original message |
16. Who is this "embassy official, Michael Middleton Steere" |
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EFerrari (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Nov-28-07 03:28 PM Response to Reply #16 |
17. I don't know and I might agree with you except for this. |
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spoony (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Nov-28-07 04:57 PM Response to Reply #17 |
24. Whilst not enamoured with him, I know what you mean |
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EFerrari (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Nov-28-07 05:06 PM Response to Reply #24 |
31. At this point, I wouldn't blame them. |
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slackmaster (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Nov-29-07 01:57 PM Response to Reply #31 |
89. I'm no fan of Chavez but I wouldn't blame them either |
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dantyrant (278 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Nov-29-07 03:01 AM Response to Reply #24 |
50. Interesting... |
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nick303 (379 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Fri Nov-30-07 01:10 AM Response to Reply #17 |
104. What do you mean trotted out? nt |
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nadinbrzezinski (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Nov-28-07 04:37 PM Response to Original message |
20. Tin foil hat moment |
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Warren Stupidity (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Nov-28-07 04:55 PM Response to Reply #20 |
21. Wait. Try this thought experiment. |
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tom_paine (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Nov-28-07 04:56 PM Response to Reply #21 |
23. I can't disaagree with that, Warren. Whatever one may think of Chavez |
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nadinbrzezinski (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Nov-28-07 05:03 PM Response to Reply #21 |
28. All these fake documents have a shred of truth |
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Warren Stupidity (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Nov-28-07 05:12 PM Response to Reply #28 |
32. "shred of truth"? - the basic outline has to be accurate! |
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nadinbrzezinski (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Nov-28-07 05:22 PM Response to Reply #32 |
34. Tell me how accurate were the cells of Stalinist Russia |
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Toots (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Nov-29-07 08:56 AM Response to Reply #21 |
68. sitting on a huge pile of cheap oil. |
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Warren Stupidity (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Nov-29-07 09:23 PM Response to Reply #68 |
99. Cheap OIl is cheap to extract. |
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tom_paine (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Nov-28-07 04:55 PM Response to Reply #20 |
22. Chavez is a graduate of SOA? Got a link to support that? |
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nadinbrzezinski (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Nov-28-07 05:05 PM Response to Reply #22 |
29. Yes, and he has stopped all relationships with the SOA |
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tom_paine (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Nov-28-07 05:38 PM Response to Reply #29 |
37. Maybe those dots are connectable, but I'm sorry, it's not enough for me to accept that as anything |
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nadinbrzezinski (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Nov-29-07 12:52 AM Response to Reply #37 |
47. that's fine |
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tom_paine (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Nov-29-07 07:51 AM Response to Reply #47 |
62. OK, I'll keep my eyes peeled now for further corroborating information |
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Gabi Hayes (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Fri Nov-30-07 08:53 PM Response to Reply #62 |
116. There are two easy answers to the SOA question: |
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L. Coyote (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Dec-03-07 12:35 PM Response to Reply #116 |
120. Third easy answer. Almost all high-ranking officers in South America have. |
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Flanker (530 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Nov-28-07 05:00 PM Response to Reply #20 |
27. Its convenient because it is new |
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nadinbrzezinski (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Nov-28-07 05:06 PM Response to Reply #27 |
30. That one was a good fake |
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Warren Stupidity (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Nov-28-07 05:17 PM Response to Reply #30 |
33. Actually it was a shitty fake. |
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nadinbrzezinski (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Nov-28-07 05:23 PM Response to Reply #33 |
35. So shitty that the day we went to war we were in the minority |
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Warren Stupidity (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Nov-28-07 05:48 PM Response to Reply #35 |
38. Well in a sense it did, but not in the way I think you meant. |
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nadinbrzezinski (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Nov-29-07 01:01 AM Response to Reply #38 |
48. I mean that it worked, just like Pinochet's fake |
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Peace Patriot (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Nov-29-07 10:34 AM Response to Reply #35 |
70. "we were in the minority"--wrong! 56% of the American people opposed the war |
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Cessna Invesco Palin (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Nov-29-07 08:40 AM Response to Reply #20 |
67. I don't think it's tinfoil at all. |
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Tierra_y_Libertad (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Nov-28-07 05:24 PM Response to Original message |
36. Our CIA?? With their rich history of humanitarianism and love of democracy?? |
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TahitiNut (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Nov-28-07 06:07 PM Response to Reply #36 |
40. Best. Reply. Of. All. |
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EFerrari (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Nov-28-07 11:04 PM Response to Reply #36 |
45. When I told my vatos about this, not one of them expressed surprise. |
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leftchick (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Nov-28-07 05:55 PM Response to Original message |
39. Much More to read about the impending Coup 2007 and US DISINFO..... |
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Judi Lynn (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Nov-28-07 06:24 PM Response to Original message |
41. Oh, NO! I just discovered your amazing post just as I have to leave. |
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WinkyDink (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Nov-28-07 06:44 PM Response to Original message |
42. I believe it. After all, there was a coup d'etat HERE. |
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Judi Lynn (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Nov-28-07 06:50 PM Response to Original message |
43. Kicking! |
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Judi Lynn (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Nov-28-07 08:21 PM Response to Original message |
44. More details are available in this article, which should help: |
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EFerrari (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Nov-28-07 11:20 PM Response to Reply #44 |
46. All we need now is the official denial. |
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Judi Lynn (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Nov-29-07 05:18 AM Response to Reply #46 |
55. I saw something in the last hour which had the jerk at the US embassy claiming he was "unfamiliar" |
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slackmaster (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Nov-29-07 11:11 AM Response to Reply #46 |
79. I hope the official denial doesn't come out before the actual alleged document |
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EFerrari (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Nov-29-07 11:21 AM Response to Reply #79 |
81. Lol! You may like this. Looking for sourcing, I found a Pravda article: |
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cali (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Nov-29-07 06:22 AM Response to Reply #44 |
60. thank you |
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slackmaster (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Nov-29-07 11:10 AM Response to Reply #44 |
78. Original document will be available "soon", eh? |
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killbotfactory (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Nov-29-07 02:32 AM Response to Original message |
49. Don't you see? We are completely justified in trying to topple his government. |
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Judi Lynn (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Nov-29-07 05:07 AM Response to Original message |
54. Huffington Post right on the story:The CIA plan to destabilize Venezuela... |
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Baby Snooks (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Nov-29-07 10:50 AM Response to Original message |
72. The CIA |
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Peace Patriot (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Nov-29-07 11:25 AM Response to Original message |
82. That recent NYT puff piece on General Baduel is interesting in this context. |
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L. Coyote (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Nov-29-07 11:40 AM Response to Original message |
84. There are a lot of "Election Theft" professionals on the taxpayer dime! |
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Peace Patriot (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Nov-29-07 01:23 PM Response to Original message |
86. Another BIG factor in this situation is the many OTHER leftist governments in South America |
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Judi Lynn (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Nov-29-07 02:15 PM Response to Reply #86 |
91. You're so right. They will not give up. I hope they don't re-destroy Latin America in the process. |
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redqueen (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Nov-29-07 01:54 PM Response to Original message |
88. Things are not looking good for Venezuela. |
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slackmaster (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Nov-29-07 01:59 PM Response to Reply #88 |
90. My plan for really sticking it to Venezuela |
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redqueen (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Nov-29-07 02:23 PM Response to Reply #90 |
93. I wish your plan was our government's plan. |
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EFerrari (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Nov-29-07 02:24 PM Response to Reply #90 |
94. Did you catch the mayor of Montana on the Bill Press show yesterday? |
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Peace Patriot (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Nov-29-07 09:16 PM Response to Reply #90 |
98. Why do you want to "stick it to" Venezuela? |
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EFerrari (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Nov-29-07 02:19 PM Response to Reply #88 |
92. I feel very worried. I don't care so much if the reforms pass or fail |
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DutchLiberal (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Nov-29-07 02:38 PM Response to Original message |
95. Today I've seen the movie 'September 11', which features a segment about the coup in Chile... |
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redqueen (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Nov-29-07 03:32 PM Response to Reply #95 |
97. I wonder if that might change if we got Kucinich in office. (nt) |
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DutchLiberal (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Fri Nov-30-07 07:28 PM Response to Reply #97 |
108. I was a Kucinich-supporter, until he decided to sabotage his own campaign by considering Ron Paul. |
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Truth2Tell (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Fri Nov-30-07 07:35 PM Response to Reply #108 |
110. The CIA thanks you |
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DutchLiberal (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Fri Nov-30-07 07:41 PM Response to Reply #110 |
111. Oh yes, because I don't want a religious extremist, a racist and a bigot as vice-president... |
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redqueen (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Fri Nov-30-07 08:12 PM Response to Reply #108 |
112. He flew off at the mouth and retracted it. |
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DutchLiberal (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Fri Nov-30-07 09:03 PM Response to Reply #112 |
117. Where and when did he retract it? |
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Peace Patriot (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Nov-29-07 09:31 PM Response to Reply #95 |
100. That is certainly what the Bush Junta is up to, but I wouldn't predict their success. |
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DutchLiberal (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Fri Nov-30-07 07:30 PM Response to Reply #100 |
109. If the Bushites have proven one thing, it's they can and will do *anything* . |
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ellisonz (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Nov-29-07 09:37 PM Response to Original message |
101. Hugo must be worried he's going to lose the vote. |
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Clanfear (260 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Dec-03-07 12:42 PM Response to Reply #101 |
121. True. The real question |
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goforit (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Nov-29-07 09:40 PM Response to Original message |
102. The CIA is boring me. Using the same plan as Bush vs Gore 2000 election is |
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lovuian (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Nov-29-07 09:45 PM Response to Original message |
103. Our tax dollars at work |
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EFerrari (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Fri Nov-30-07 11:10 AM Response to Original message |
105. Amy is covering this story this morning. (Friday, 11/30) n/t |
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EFerrari (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Fri Nov-30-07 12:52 PM Response to Original message |
106. I hope you noticed that this morning, like clockwork, the NYTs |
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redqueen (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Fri Nov-30-07 08:17 PM Response to Reply #106 |
114. So fucking predictable. |
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EFerrari (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Fri Nov-30-07 08:28 PM Response to Reply #114 |
115. It is completely predictable and, for people like me who grew up |
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slackmaster (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Fri Nov-30-07 05:39 PM Response to Original message |
107. More blather and speculation, yet still no image of the purported memo itself |
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EFerrari (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Fri Nov-30-07 08:15 PM Response to Reply #107 |
113. The author of this article was on DemocracyNow! this morning. |
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L. Coyote (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Dec-03-07 03:00 AM Response to Reply #113 |
119. The links are up now. |
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countryjake (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sat Dec-01-07 09:14 PM Response to Original message |
118. Kick for the weekenders |
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L. Coyote (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Dec-03-07 01:32 PM Response to Original message |
122. United States and anti-Chavez groups use media to twist, manipulate reality! |
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slackmaster (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Dec-03-07 05:23 PM Response to Original message |
123. It's been a whole week now, and there is STILL NO MEMO to be seen |
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Rex (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Dec-03-07 05:24 PM Response to Original message |
124. In the sea of endless information, a document surfaces... |
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DU AdBot (1000+ posts) | Tue May 07th 2024, 07:57 AM Response to Original message |
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