Question for DUers

[malaise]

I've been pro-impeachment from day one but I'm now wondering if we should wait this out and simply try the rat pack for treason when Bush cannot pardon any of them.

[bahrbearian]

1. Wait for that , or wait for WWIII.

[H2O Man]

2. Bush can't pardon

in cases of impeachment.

[malaise]

3. Well then

IMPEACH NOW!!!

[LakeSamish706]

4. The problem is twofold with your thinking IMHO....

Firstly, who says that these thugs will even leave office in Jan 09?

Secondly, even if they do and a Democrat wins the WH, who is to say that they will bring these thugs to justice?

[Flabbergasted]

5. I really don't think there is much of a motive to stay in office.

There is nothing to substantiate the idea that Bush really wants to keep this job. I think he will be more than happy to pass the job on.

Whoever gets into office in 09 will not pursue charges against Bushco.

[malaise]

6. They will leave or they will be taken out

I'll bet my life on that. Ask Gonzo, Rove et al.

[madokie]

10. I agree with you a hundred percent

this country is much bigger and stronger than this criminal cabal, Americans are starting to wake up and the ones who are are not liking what they're seeing, its only a matter of time now until they will be gone

[malaise]

11. And that is the simple truth

This cabal is over.

[LakeSamish706]

15. I sure hope that when you say "Gone" it will be to the Haque....n/t

[malaise]

16. A girl can dream

:D

[madokie]

17. yes to the Hague

[magellan]

7. That's my concern, too

"Secondly, even if they do and a Democrat wins the WH, who is to say that they will bring these thugs to justice?"

If the Dems won't seek justice now, what makes anyone think they will later? IF BushCo leave office (and I share your concern there as well), I have little doubt it'll be out of sight, out of mind.

[Flabbergasted]

9. And that's precisely why we need to press impeachment even without getting it.

[rasputin1952]

19. The #'s are not there, it's as simple as that...

To impeach is one thing, to convict is something entirely different.

Lessons should have been learned over the Clinton impeachment/trial. Even solid R's did not vote to convict, (for various reasons). With out a virtual guarantee of conviction, all one can do is embarrass, and possibly neuter, a president. Impeachment proceedings on paper, are easily done, by the time everything else is put into motion, the creeps would be packing up to go homer anyway, why derail the entire Legislative branch when things are going to change anyway?

there is plenty of time to gather information, and et up cases between now and a year of two after these people are out, then they can be brought up on charges and tried in Federal Court. Once convicted, if there is a D in the WH, (I should think so after the disaster the R's have made of everything, I doubt he/she would commute a sentence or pardon them. (It may however, be politically expedient to commute a sentence, but that is the Wild Card in this case). So we get bush and cheney in jail after this nightmare, fine by me, just so long as they are held to account for what they have done to this nation, and it's people, regardless if they are D's, R's and I's.

[magellan]

23. No, it's not that simple

But if BushCo are charged after leaving office -- which I doubt! -- it will be very interesting to see the public's reaction as the truth comes out and they start to wonder, as they inevitably will, why the Dems didn't impeach while these criminals were IN office.

[rasputin1952]

24. He wasn't impeached because there are not enough votes in the

Senate to convict. It is basic math...w/o 61 to convict, it is an exercise in futility. It is always best to have at least some inkling of winning when one goes into battle..."choose your battles wisely", as Sun Tzu spoke many centuries ago.

One can't get much more basic than that.

The D's learned well what happened to the GOP after the impeachment and trial of Clinton. Many powerful R's were either excised or powerless after that fiasco. It might have been different if there was a conviction, but the R's were hellbent to "teach Clinton a lesson", and they failed miserably. In fact, Clinton was seen in a much better light after the trial, only the negatives got the press from the "left-wing media".

I'd love to see bush and his cronies impeached and dragged out of the WH...but it ain't going to happen. If Congress pushes a full press for disclosure, investigates properly and has the chance of putting bush behind bars, they should go for it. I'd be ecstatic if bush's "legacy" was to be doing 35 to life...hard time :D

[rasputin1952]

18. Answer to #1: They will leave...

Answer to #2: The WH does not bring people to justice in instances like this, the House and Senate do. With a substantial majority of D's many things can happen...and relatively quickly.

[Hotler]

8. Why wait? Indict them for treason now.

Now that the word impeachment is being said more in the main stream it's time to start saying imprisonment along with impeachment.

[Hotler]

13. P.S. Maybe we don't need the madam speaker and co..

Maybe all we need is a prosecuting attorney with a spine and some balls. Think we could find one or two? If everybody one DU chipped in I bet we could find someone and do and end run around congress and start throwing neocons in jail.

[malaise]

14. Joe WIlson says treason

high crimes and misdemeanors. Lock them up.

[scarletwoman]

12. Since we essentially have no say either way, I'd say it doesn't much matter.

You are positing a choice between two fantasies. Neither impeachment nor trials for treason are going to happen absent a complete overthrow of the Status Quo. And that is obviously NOT going happen in this next election.

U.S. Imperialism and the National Security State have ALWAYS been bipartisan projects. No member of the Ruling Class will ever call any other member to account, lest the whole sorry con game be exposed.

sw

[Hotler]

20. Sometimes fantasies and dreams are....

seeds that grow into action. And in a way I agree with you. There is also apart of me that feels like it will get very bad before it gets better. Peace.

[Whisp]

21. you are supposing....

that Elections are honest ( ahahahahahahahah!) yes, they do work both ways.
and that 100 day thing .... let me hahhahah again.

get those criminals out now, all of them, with whatever you have left to maybe do it. Don't WAit.

gawd almighty.

[hootinholler]

22. And what keeps * from passing out pardons on his way out the door.

Impeach now. Prevent pardons.

-Hoot

[rucky]

25. Well, they've stalled long enough, haven't they?

It makes more and more sense every day.