"Imagine, if you will, a load of horseshit" . . .

[OneBlueSky]

ON THE CREATION MUSEUM
By John Scalzi

http://scalzi.com/whatever/?p=121



Here’s how to understand the Creation Museum:

Imagine, if you will, a load of horseshit. And we’re not talking just your average load of horseshit; no, we’re talking colossal load of horsehit. An epic load of horseshit. The kind of load of horseshit that has accreted over decades and has developed its own sort of ecosystem, from the flyblown chunks at the perimeter, down into the heated and decomposing center, generating explosive levels of methane as bacteria feast merrily on vintage, liquified crap. This is a Herculean load of horseshit, friends, the likes of which has not been seen since the days of Augeas.

And you look at it and you say, “Wow, what a load of horseshit.”

But then there’s this guy. And this guy loves this load of horseshit. Why? Well, really, who knows? What possesses someone to love a load of horseshit? It’s beyond your understanding and possibly you don’t actually want to know, even if you could know; maybe it’s one of those “on that path lies madness” things. But love it he does, and he’s not the only one; the admiration for this particular load of horseshit exists, unaccountably, far and wide. There are advocates for this load of horseshit.

And so this guy who loves this load of horseshit decides that he’s going to do something; he’s going to give it a home. And not just any home, because as this is no ordinary load of horseshit, so must its home be no ordinary repository for horseshit. And so the fellow builds a temple for his load of horseshit. The finest architects scope this temple’s dimensions; the most excellent builders hoist columns around the load of horseshit and cap them with a cunning and elegant dome; and every surface of the temple is clad in fine-grained Italian marble by the most competent masons in a three-state radius. The load of horseshit is surrounded by comfortable seats, the better for people to gaze upon it; docents are hired to expertly describe its history and features; multimedia events are designed to explain its superior nature, relative not only to other loads of horseshit which may compete in loadosity or horseshittery, but to other, completely unrelated things which may or may not be loads of anything, much less loads of horseshit.

- more . . .

http://scalzi.com/whatever/?p=121

and then there's the photo tour . . .

http://www.flickr.com/photos/scalzi/sets/72157603091357751/

(via Metafilter) . . .

[Richard Steele]

1. That's just about the most PERFECT extendedly snarky essay I think I've ever seen.

Just so beautifully done, I got a speck of something in my eye
from reading it, if ya know what I mean.

Recommended.

[lisby]

2. And you look at it and you say, “Wow, what a load of horseshit"

:spray:

:rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl:

Thank you for starting my morning off right.

[TahitiNut]

50. Well, there must be a pony in there somewhere.

:dunce:

[SoCalDem]

3. Jesus loved dinosaurs

[Perry Logan]

4. Then why did they go extinct?

[SoCalDem]

6. he squeezed them too tightly? or maybe they were too tasty

:)

[Lasher]

63. Nope. It was Adam who made them go extinct.

It was the apple thing, ya know. I thought they were playing with the unicorns and eating brussels sprouts when they were supposed to be getting on the ark but the Creation Museum says they lived at least long enough to pull the pharaohs' chariots around.

[skyblue]

8. rofl nt

[mikeytherat]

11. You REALLY need to add an image of The Space Pope to your collage:

crocodylus pontifex

mikey_the_rat

[SoCalDem]

12. Thanks mikey

:)

[hootinholler]

14. Through a subtle spelling error

Raptor was turned into rapture! They aren't waiting to be raptured, they're waiting to be raptored!

-Hoot

[SoCalDem]

15. Oooh... good one

:rofl:

[Quantess]

53. WOW!

Fantastic photo album! Tell Jesus thanks for letting everyone see the good times he had with the dinosaurs. :thumbsup:

[Warren DeMontague]

55. You're Fuckin A He Rode 'em.

Just like John Wayne Did.

[Hissyspit]

5. Ceiling Cat Created All Beings At The Same Time

I think he eated all the dinosaurs, though.

http://lolcatbible.com

[Tyler Durden]

7. What an unbelievable waste of money.

Let's hear some more Right Wing Fundies talk about wasting money on "Socialized Medicine."

[Tom Joad]

9. oh, i thought this was going to be about Hillary. Nevermind.

my mistake.

[zeemike]

10. Oh great another one of those post with no redeeming

values other than it uses ridicule and only ridicule to try to embarrass and stir up the anger of the other side of an issue.
Very progressive of you. But Rush Limballs and Sham Hanity does it better, At lest they includ a few facts to make it seem like it is real, not just repeating the same gook line...a big pile of horshit...pver and over like a Rush ditto head.

[rAVES]

18. What, you want real people to take this Horseshit seriously?

It deserves NOTHING but ridicule.. NOTHING!

A man sitting on a Dinosaur? :rofl:


Brilliant read! Recommended!

[zeemike]

20. No I want real people to not wallow in self righteousness

Like the Limbals of the world do.
If there is a criticism of the museum then let us hear it presented in a respectful manner. Why should we stoop to the level of the exploitive to win the game.

[BleedingHeartPatriot]

22. Respectful criticism?

OK, I'll give it a shot.

This museum exists to promote a fantasy to uneducated people, and presents a complete fabrication as facts. Those who built it and profit from it are exploiting these people and further reducing their already limited understanding of the world in which we all live.


MKJ

[zeemike]

24. That wasn't so hard was it?

And you didn't have to insult every last person that even wondered whether there was a god.

[BleedingHeartPatriot]

25. Well, there's certainly no way I could insult those who believe this foolishness more than those who

profit from this "museum".

They're taking their money and telling them fairy tales, made up from whole cloth.

BTW, what's a "gook" line? MKJ

[zeemike]

32. A typo...It should have read hook line

So what is in the museum? I have not the first idea what it contains but you and everyone else seems to know...you got a link that shows what is in there before I declare it trash or not?
Or did basic fair principles just get abolished and I did not notice?

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

31. Creationists are fucking stupid.

A bunch of cheating, perjuring arsonists.

There.

I gave them as much respect as they deserve.

[zeemike]

34. And Atheist are a bunch of paranoid narcissist

that think there shit does not stink and feel sooooo much superior to anyone who disagrees with them.
Now we have really elevated this debate have we not?
:banghead: :sarcasm:

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

41. That's funny.

But you miss my point.

Creationists by their very nature are stupid and are liars.

There's really nothing to debate about it.

[Warren DeMontague]

60. It's "their", Mike.

Not "there".

[Labors of Hercules]

39. I am insulted...

that you believe that ordinary decent agnostics are fed up with being insulted by the idea that creationism being called horseshit is insulting to us because we wonder whether there is a god... I'm certainly not insulted, and I am fed up with being told that I am.

:beer: :wow: :evilgrin:

[Warren DeMontague]

59. Okay, I will respectfully say that anyone who believes the Earth is 6,000 years old and Dinosaurs

were running around during the time of Jesus is on some serious fucking crack.

Respectfully speaking.

[BleedingHeartPatriot]

19. The "other side" of the issue is this ridiculous assertion that was dreamed up

in spite of overwhelming scientific evidence to the contrary.

Those who built and profit from this museum are modern day snake oil salesman, getting the most ignorant members of our citizenry to pony up twenty bucks apiece for this idiotic display.

The "other side" is composed of con artists and and the terminally gullible.

What's a "gook" line, BTW? MKJ

[zeemike]

23. So you are saying that anyone that believes in a god

Eats this big pile of horshit.
And anyone that does not believe that the evidence is "Overwhelming" are just fools that need to be educated on the fossil records.
And the self righteousness of it just makes us more enemies and divides us form one another...but then that is the purpose of ridicule.

[BleedingHeartPatriot]

27. I didn't say anything of the sort.

MKJ

on edit, BTW, what's a "gook" line?

[zeemike]

37. A typo...it should have been hook line

That is a propaganda tool like "welfare Mothers" or "press one for english" that reinforces an idea without having to say anything to substantiate the point.

[BleedingHeartPatriot]

44. got it, thanks for answering.

That's how it appeared, however, it's nice to have intent clarified. MKJ

[muriel_volestrangler]

29. If you bothered reading the link, you'd see this:

There have to be people who believe this horseshit unreservedly, but I suspect that perhaps the majority of the visitors I saw were Christians who may not buy into the whole “six days” thing, but are curious to see how it’s being presented. To be clear, the “horseshit” I’ve been speaking of is not Christianity, it’s creationism, which to my mind is a teleological quirk substantially unrelated to the grace one can achieve through Jesus Christ. Now, the Creation Museum rather emphatically argues that a literal reading of the Bible is essential for true Christianity — it’s got a whole red-lit section that suggests the ills of society are directly related to folks deciding that maybe some parts of the Bible are, you know, metaphorical – but that’s just more horseshit, of a slightly different flavor. There are lots of Christians who clearly don’t need to twist their brain like a pretzel to get around the idea that the universe is billions of years old and that we’ve evolved from earlier forms. For those folks, the Creation Museum is probably about culture, to the extent any installation largely created by someone who previously worked for Universal Studios can be about culture.
...
Will these folks find the arguments they find at the Creation Museum convincing? Again, you got me. I certainly hope not, but more to the point I would hope that these folks don’t come away feeling that their love of Christ obliges them to swallow heaping mounds of horseshit from people who are phobic about metaphor. I really don’t think Jesus would care if you think that you and a monkey have a common ancestor; I think he would care more that you think you and your neighbor have a common weal.

[zeemike]

36. I read it all

And that means what to you?
But in all of that "report" the only thing that he told us was in there was horseshit and no description of the exhibits. And that is strange don't you think for a report?

[muriel_volestrangler]

46. There are descriptions of some of the exhibits

For instance, the 2 palaeontologists. And there are over 100 photos, with captions. So, no, I don't think it's strange.

What the excerpt means to me is that the article is not having a go at anyone who believes in a god; it's having a go at anyone who ignores all the evidence of how old the earth is, and the history of the plants and animals on it, in favour of a 2,500 year old religious book.

[Warren DeMontague]

61. So you're saying that everyone who believes in "a god" thinks the Earth is 6,000 years old?

Distrusts science and the scientific method? Believes in some ridiculous fucking fairy tale Cartoon sunday school explanation of the Earth's history with logical holes that most 2nd Graders could drive a big wheel through?

That is an insult to most Theists, jack.

[Phillycat]

30. Are you a Creationist? Do you have questions about evolution?

[zeemike]

38. I am not a "creationist" nor am I a "Evolutionist"

Because both sides are convinced of there superior knowledge and understanding of the natural world.
Evolution is only one of the forces that shaped the life on this earth. That is my belief. But mankind is arrogant and narcissistic and must cling to the first thing that they think they understand, and declare all others as stupid and foolish to protect there own venerabilities.

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

42. So in other words, you're a creationist.

You just don't want to admit it, like all the other creationists.

[zeemike]

43. And so in other words you are a McCarthyist

Out there trying to root out all the secret cells of Creationism.
"Are you now,or have you ever been a card carrying Creationist"

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

49. Your slip is showing.

1. You're irrationally defensive of Creationism.

2. You suggest the alternative to Creationism is atheism.

3. You suggest Evolution is an incomplete theory, or lacking of something, or in need of an alternative.

4. You suggest Creationism is a viable alternative.

What cracks me up is that Creationists claim to believe in the literal interpretation of the Bible, but always forget the 8th commandment. Have they no shame? Have they no sense of decency?

[zeemike]

52. Defending the right to offer alternative to evolution is not irrational

I do not suggest any alternative to creationism.

But I do suggest that evolution is an incomplete theory that lacks something.
And I suggest that creationism is flawed in the same manner and for the same reasons that Evolution is flawed...they both have a narrow view that cannot tolerate other views.

Creationist are the same ones that I have argued with for years over the content and meaning of the bible. They are often ignorant of what it says and often violate the very teachings of Jesus. I consider there leadership to be the false prophets that Jesus predicted would lead people into disaster in the later days.
I hope that makes it clear to you.

[Warren DeMontague]

62. So... how old do you think the Earth is?

Do you think the "theory" that the Earth is approx. 4.5 Billion years old is "flawed" in the same manner as the "theory" that the Earth is 6,000 years old?

[zeemike]

64. Mistakes are made on both sides

On the bible side they merely count the recorded generations and do not account for other evidence in the bible of a much longer time frame.
On the scientific side they assume a steady state and count the layers of sediment as like yearly rings or the amount of erosion it took to form the Grand canyon and then say with certainty that it is X number of million years old.
Here is an example of what I mean. Off the cost of Texas is a bed of oyster shells that is hundreds of feet thick and they have been dredging oyster shells out of there for years. Now the scientist will tell us that it took X million years for the bed to be laid down that thick, but there is no difference in the oyster shell on the bottom than on the top which would mean that the oyster did not evolve in all that time.
So how would you explain that?
Well it is hard if you stick to only the accepted theories of science which rejects the influence of cataclysmic events like a great flood which by the way is mentioned in every religion in the world even the native american traditions.
I think Man has been here on earth more than the 5000 years that science says it is and there is evidence for this as well but all of it rejected by the narrow mind of the elitist.

[Warren DeMontague]

65. How would I explain that? The oysters did not experience environmental pressure to evolve.

There are organisms running around this planet that are not significantly different than they were 100 million years ago. Why is that? Because they haven't needed to change. They have found a successful ecological niche or survival strategy that works just fine. That's how evolution works. The FACT that life evolves doesn't mean that ALL life always evolves in equal amounts and every circumstance. It is a process that is dependent upon environmental pressures. Natural selection.

Beyond that, got a source on this thing about the Oysters? Did someone tell you this was some sort of "proof" against evolution or the age of the Earth?

Who?

You didn't answer my question, or if you did, I can't parse out what your answer is. So I'll ask again- How old do you think the Earth is? In years?

But really, given the unmitigated gibberish you're spouting, I suspect I'm wasting my time here. Go spend your twenty bucks on Ken Ham and his Dinosaur-Ridin' Jesus.

[zeemike]

66. Well I thought i answered it, but I'll be a bit more clear I hope

But I can't possibly give you a number because it would be only a guess
I think it is a lot younger than science says, as for as life is concerned and a lot older than Religion would have you believe.
And yes I do have evidence for that belief but I don't have the time now to present it and have it be ridiculed and be told that it has been debunked by the great debunking god it the ivory tower of learning. (there is lots of evidence and it has not been debunked dispute what you would claim)
The Oyster shells comes from the fact that I lived on the Gulf coast for many years 1962-1990 and in th early years the cheapest way to build a road in the sandy soil was with oyster shell. And being the curious person I am I knew they were not getting it from the shucking of oysters and asked.
And at that time I was an artiest that loved to argue with christians and it was used against me in an argument about evolution...and by the way i answered it the same way you did.
But we were doing so good at civil discourse until the last line in your post;
"But really, given the unmitigated gibberish you're spouting, I suspect I'm wasting my time here"
I guess that is a "parting shot" but was it relay necessary to insult me on the way out?

[Warren DeMontague]

67. Look, buddy. There is NO legitimate "evidence" debunking evolution.

Evolution is a FACT. The "theory" of evolution lines up with ALL the available evidence, including the evidence of our genetic code- and by "our" I mean the DNA of me, you, chimps, horses, your dog, trees, etc.

It is possible, using "junk" DNA that contains "footprints" of ancient viral infections, to track precisely how the tree of life has branched off- and guess what? It lines up perfectly with the "theory" of Evolution and what we KNOW about the scientific history of the 4.5 Billion year old Earth. This is new technology- and (surprise!) the data matches perfectly with what those "ivory tower evolutionists" have been saying for years.

As for your answer about the Age of the Earth- I suppose you think you're displaying a bit of Solomon-like wisdom, "splitting the difference" between the Scientists who "say" the Earth is 4.5 Billion years old, and the Religious nuts (who, by the way, do not speak for all religious people- plenty of religious people are perfectly capable of accepting scientific fact) who say the Earth is 6,000 years old.

Really, what you're doing is akin to saying "Well, some say the Earth is round, and some say it's flat.. they're both convinced they're right, so I'm going to split the difference and say the Earth is shaped like a Football."

'cept, the Earth isn't shaped like a Football. The Earth is round, and the people who say it is flat are WRONG.

I'm not trying to insult you- really, I'm not- but there is religious speculation, and there is scientific FACT. One is backed up by evidence and proof, and one is not. Believe what you want to believe, but if you want to try to pass it off as "science", or even put it into competition with science, then you have to be prepared to have people challenge you on the essential wrongness of your arguments. And when there is a wholesale war on science going on, and all over this country people are trying to shoehorn creationist bullshit into public schools, this is hardly an abstract debate.




...And what's an "artiest"?

[zeemike]

68. You are not understanding what I am saying

And that is my fault for being brief with my comments.
I did not say that evolution had been debunked, and in fact will say that there is evidence for it in the process of natural selection. And this is not new evidence but has been practiced by animal and plant breeders for hundreds of years. But what i am saying is that evolution does not explain everything and is not the sole shaper or life on this or other planets.

What I said was

"I think it is a lot younger than science says, as for as life is concerned and a lot older than Religion would have you believe.
And yes I do have evidence for that belief"
I am saying that Mankind and civilization has been on this earth far longer than Science will admit too, and there is a lot of evidence to support that belief.

A hint at this comes from Plato's dialogs where he recounts the conversation of Solon with the chief priest in Egypt that told him of a civilization some 10,000 years ago that was destroyed by the great flood (Atlantis) And he claimed that even before that there were great civilizations that were destroyed by cataclysmic events but sense the destruction was complete we lost all records of them.
And of course when the great library in egypt burned much more was lost.

And I could go on and on, and you could too declaring all my evidence as mythical if gotten from ancient literature or debunked if physical and do we really have time for that with the shit that is happening in the world today?
None of this including evolution matters much in the face of global warming and the rise of world Fascism does it? At least not enough to put us at each others thoughts when we need to work together.

[BleedingHeartPatriot]

45. YOUR belief??? And you call those who don't follow YOUR belief narcissistic?

:crazy:

:rofl: MKJ

[Warren DeMontague]

58. I'm sure there are people who are "convinced" the Earth is flat.

There are Crazy people who are "convinced" they are Napoleon.

Being "convinced" of something doesn't mean you're right, or even close to being right. It doesn't mean you have anything resembling an argument.

Just because some people believe the Earth is flat, while most people believe it is round, that doesn't mean that the Earth being flat is an equal proposition to it being round. That doesn't mean there are "two sides" to the "debate"- either the Earth is flat OR it is round.

The Earth is Round. Evolution is a FACT. Deal with it, already.

[Warren DeMontague]

56. Waaaaaaah! Waaaaaaah! I want to peddle proven lies and bullshit-- and have NO ONE CALL ME ON IT!

Waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaah!

[hootinholler]

13. Everything you need to know about this pile of horseshit

Is in the $19.95 admission.

-Hoot

[ThomCat]

16. What an incredible waste of money,

x(

But what a wonderful review. :rofl:

[zbdent]

17. P.T. Barnum was correct ...

[C_U_L8R]

21. Looks like a big stinking pile of Dino Poop to me

At 19.95 a ticket, these rightwingchristofascists
are looking like total dumb fucks. Hilarious.

[DFW]

26. If that place pays its rent without subsidies

It is time to be afraid. VERY afriad.

[BleedingHeartPatriot]

28. This is really good article

This paragraph is nicely written gem:

The problem with this is that creationism isn’t a theory, it’s an assertion, to wit: The entire universe was created in six days, the days are 24-hour days, the layout for the creation and for the early history of the planet and humanity is in the first chapter of Genesis and it is exactly right. Everything has to be made to conform to these assertions, which is why creationist attempts at science are generally so damn comical and refutable. This is also why the “different starting points, same facts” mantra is laughably false on its face — creationism has to have different facts to explain the world. It’s a little idiotic to establish as a “fact” that both science and creationism acknowledge, say, that apes exist, but to paper over the difference in the set of “facts” that explain how the apes got here, or to imply that a creationist assertion (apes created on the fifth day) is logically or systematically equivalent to decades of rigorous scientific process in the exploration of evolution.

K & R!

:kick:

MKJ

[stirlingsliver]

33. I Imagined Bush.

Gee, when I saw the headline of this thread, I thought immediately of Bush.

And Cheney.

[proud patriot]

35. man , that's a lot of horseshit

[ThatsMyBarack]

40. "Jesus Camp 2: Electric Boogaloo!"

:rofl:

[ddeclue]

47. This would be hilarious if read in the style of Twilight Zone narrator...

Imagine if you will... a pile of horseshit...

:rofl:

[progressivejazz]

48. Kick

This is just too good to let die.

[kineneb]

51. shit happens. evolution happens. next question?

Matter is neither created nor destroyed. Therefore, there can be no "creation".

End argument.

[JFN1]

54. It's an amusement park...right?

Like Dollywood, or Silver Dollar City?

[Warren DeMontague]

57. Kick.

:kick: