How politically MASTERFUL would it be if AL GORE announced ....

[Harper_is_Bush]

after anyone and everyone had interpreted his actions as a complete rule out?

[TheWraith]

1. Not at all.

It would be politically suicidal.

[Harper_is_Bush]

2. Ok, appreciate your comment, but you failed to give 1 iota of explanation/argument.

So, why bother?

This isn't a poll.

[tavalon]

11. I thought it was obvious, but maybe my response further down in your thread will elucidate

[Harper_is_Bush]

16. It did not. Just fluff. n/t

[tavalon]

35. Then you must be dense

It wouldn't be masterful, it would be suicidal because he will need a huge cashflow immediately to counter the juggernaut that is the Clinton machine and that money is most likely all still waiting for him, like mine but soon, people will move on and if he waits until no one expects it, no one will have the money to give him and while his fame will take him far, he won't win it without the cash. It's really wrong that he won't win it without the cash but that's the way our system works.

[TheWraith]

32. Fundraising, polling, building an organization, many other reasons.

The campaign season is already at full speed, and Gore would have to put in time on all the things others have done. Anybody who's not already campaigning has pretty much zero chance of jumping in in a big way.

[Harper_is_Bush]

34. Why? I'm not being flippant here, why does it take so long for all that stuff?

I mean, fundraising and polling he could completely skip. He's a rich man, and the polling is being done for him.

That leaves "building an organization". Assuming he hasn't done any legwork in that department, why would that be so time-prohibitive?

Why couldn't he just show up at the primaries and say "vote for me!"???

[TheWraith]

40. Same reason you can't build a company in a day.

You need staff, fundraisers, organizers, media people, writers, artists, designers, etcetera, etcetera. It takes a lot of time to find and hire all those, particularly when a lot of the best activists and operatives have already been snapped up. You also need to get petitions going, get on the ballot in 50 different states with 50 different sets of rules and requirements, buy TV time, come out with policy positions and paperwork, make sure your business ties are cleanly cut... A presidential campaign is a lot of work, and it's not getting any easier. There's a reason these things last 18 months now.

[book_worm]

48. "polling being done for him" is politically naive. A candidate for president doesn't rely on

public polls they conduct private polls which explore not only how the candidate is doing but what issues will work for them and what issues won't. What issues their opponents are vulnerable on, ect. Also, "fund-raising he could completely skip" I guess you must think he can just write his own check to finance the campaign? He's not Romney rich, and I doubt he would want to underwrite a campaign all on his own. "That leaves building an organization" oh yeah, if you get into the race a month before the Iowa caucuses you really think that he can build an organization to compete against the organizations that have been built by all the other candidates over many months or even years and the unions which have endorsed some of those candidates?

Finally "Why couldn't he just show up at the primaries and say--vote for me!"? because the American people, other than Gore diehards on DU, expect more of a candidate for president. The early states like Iowa, NH, SC and Nevada even expect to meet the candidate and discuss issues with them. Furthermore it takes delegates to win the nomination and if Gore waits any longer he will miss filing deadlines to get on state ballots and in fielding slates of delegates.

It's naive to think that a politician of Gore's intelligence and experience will jump in at the last minute and expect to win the nomination. It doesn't work that way and he understands that.

[tavalon]

36. Gore is already campaigning but because he isn't official

He's mostly slipping under the vipers radar. The media doesn't quite know whether to turn on their bash Gore 24 beam yet. But, any other candidate has already missed the boat. This candidate has about 2 more weeks. Even, I, though, who was sure he would come in, am wavering. In fact, I'm quite doubting it and am looking at this pile of money I saved specifically for Gore and trying to decide what I want to do with - who I want to give it to. Actually, my biggest problem with that is that I would like to give it to Kucinich but really, it won't help and Hillary is already the chosen one and she isn't my first choice so. even if she didn't have a war chest big enough to fight Iraq all on her own, I don't want to contribute to her and again, my contribution won't make any difference. I'll probably look local and also contribute to Gore's other campaign.

I think I'm burnt out on National politics right now. I'll come on board again, but I'm not going to put my heart and soul into it like I did last time. Unless Gore comes in, then I'm giving every penny I have and I'm going to volunteer all of my free time to do whatever is needed and I will be in it, heart and soul, just like the last time.

[TheWraith]

41. Actually, Gore is pretty clearly not campaigning.

He's repeatedly said he doesn't anticipate or plan to run for public office ever again.

[tavalon]

44. Campaigning is saying what you believe in (and trying to get others on board with you)

Gore has been speaking out clearly and loudly. He is not currently running for office. Does that work better for you?

[book_worm]

49. Ok, in your OP where did you give "1 iota of explanation/arguement" as to why it would be so

"masterful" if Gore got in so late? It goes both ways you know.

[stevedeshazer]

3. Wouldn't that be great?

On a summer day in the month of May a burly bum came hiking
Down a shady lane through the sugar cane, he was looking for his liking.

As he roamed along he sang a song of the land of milk and honey
Where a bum can stay for many a day, and he won't need any money

Oh the buzzin' of the bees in the cigarette trees near the soda water fountain,

At the lemonade springs where the bluebird sings on the Big Rock Candy Mountains

There's a lake of gin we can both jump in, and the handouts grow on bushes
In the new-mown hay we can sleep all day, and the bars all have free lunches

Where the mail train stops and there ain't no cops, and the folks are tender-hearted

Where you never change your socks and you never throw rocks,
And your hair is never parted

Oh the buzzin' of the bees in the cigarette trees near the soda water fountain,

At the lemonade springs where the bluebird sings on the Big Rock Candy Mountains

[TwilightGardener]

4. Wouldn't be masterful--would look like he jerked everyone around, and

there is a real danger with acting like you can sweep in at the last second and steal the prize--it ain't working for Fred Thompson.

[Atman]

7. Comparing Al Gore to Fred Thompson is hardly fair

Come on! The fact is, people really ARE waiting for Gore to run, while only a handful of disaffected GOPpers were looking for Fred, out of disgust with their other choices.

.

[TwilightGardener]

13. I disagree--TONS of GOPers were hoping that Fred would ride in like

the white knight and save them--but he let the hype build too much, then waited too long. That's the only way in which I'm comparing them. But there's a lesson there, somewhere, about timing and overplaying your hand.

[Freddie Stubbs]

22. Then compare him to Wesley Clark

He waited too long to enter the race last time.

[Name removed]

5. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[BleedingHeartPatriot]

6. "I like Al Gore, but if he pulls a stunt like that" What, you won't like him anymore?

:shrug:

MKJ

on edit: for someone who "likes" him, you seem pretty eager to aim a metaphorical weapon.

[Blashyrkh]

14. If he pulls a stunt like that I will lose a lot of respect for him.

I don't want people who I see to have integrity, honesty and dignity act in a deceptive, manipulative way. If Al takes himself out of the race only to announce, he will have done just that.

Is that unreasonable?

At any rate, what you seem is not always what is. You seem to far more interested in painting me as anti-Gore than addressing the issue of Al flip-flopping on the issue of announcement. I hope my own advice is still valid.

[Bluebear]

8. Stunt? Flip-flop? . . .

:silly:

[Blashyrkh]

15. They are not mutually exclusive.

If Al Gore rules himself out then announces, the process could be argued as both a stunt and a flip-flop. Or is there a DU definition of either that I'm not aware of?

Or are you perturbed that I used the words "flip-flop" and "stunt" in relation to Al Gore?

What was the thing about watching what you had to say for fear of persecution?

[Bluebear]

20. Please, you are not being 'persecuted'.

[Harper_is_Bush]

24. did he say he was being "persecuted"? No.

You have a problem describing reality, apparently

[Bluebear]

27. Holy trolly!

[Harper_is_Bush]

28. Yeah, holly trolly. Get yourself some perspective my friend. n/t

[tavalon]

9. No, actually it would be dumb and he's not dumb

He knows many of us are keeping our money available for his announcement, but if I become convinced that he's not going to run, my money will go to Kucinich or Edwards, or both and then I won't have it available for him later. If he's going to announce, he needs to do it soon, while the fever is still up.

[proud2BlibKansan]

10. He isn't going to run

:cry:

[Harper_is_Bush]

19. I think you're in the wrong thread.

Nobody here said he was running.

[tammywammy]

12. He's not running

[Harper_is_Bush]

18. I think you're in the wrong thread.

Nobody here said he was running.

[Basileus Basileon]

17. Yes, as masterful as stumbling into traffic.

"Hey, it's too late to file, and I don't have an organization or anything, but vote for me, even though I spent the last few months jerking y'alls chain around!"

[Bluebear]

21. You've started thread after thread urging him not to run. Now it would be masterful?

What an odd game.

[Name removed]

23. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Bluebear]

25. No, I'm not a liar but you sure are!

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=389&topic_id=2232625
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=389&topic_id=2063930
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=389&topic_id=2157225
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=389&topic_id=1695206

[Name removed]

29. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Bluebear]

30. I was going to ignore you sooner because you start the dopiest threads,

but now the namecalling and calling we a liar (lame as it is) will accomplish the trick. Adios, muchacho!

[Harper_is_Bush]

33. I couldn't imagine more welcome news, except maybe a solution for global warming

when people who lie about you start ignoring you, they stop lying about you. Thumbs up.

[Richard Steele]

51. No, that was more like being hoist by your own petard.

[LeftCoast]

43. Thanks for those links Bluebear

That kinda changes the context of the OP.

[JTFrog]

47. I was as shocked as you to

see who the OP was on this one! :rofl: :rofl:

[aquart]

26. Uh, no.

[Lilith Velkor]

31. Not funny. n/t

[L. Coyote]

37. How politically MASTERFUL would it be if CHENEY announced ....

after anyone and everyone had interpreted his actions as a complete rule out and LOST YEARS of boosting his negatives as a possible candidate?

[TAZller]

38. About as masterful...

as starting several threads talking to the logic of him not running and then floating that now running could be considered masterful.... not masterful!

[ddeclue]

39. WAKE UP! WHAT PART OF NO DON'T YOU UNDERSTAND?

He's not running! Move on , pick someone else and just get over it.

Doug D.

[tavalon]

45. Is that really necessary? I mean, really.

What investment do you have in this person or any other person moving on or getting over it?

[LeftCoast]

42. Could you explain how the hell that would be MASTERFUL?

The logic escapes me.

[book_worm]

46. Not too masterful because pretty soon filing deadlines for delegates will have passed for many

states. People, especially in those early states, like a candidate who pays attention to them and do retail campaigning. The early states may establish the front runner by who wins in Iowa, NH, Nevada and South Carolina. If Gore gets in too late down the road he will be campaigning mainly by television and playing catch-up getting organizations in many states. Oh, he may be able to raise a lot of money quickly but it still takes more than money in many cases. Howard Dean raised a great deal of money four years ago and spent it quickly and didn't do as well as many people thought.

Al Gore is a smart politician, he understands what it takes to run for president which is why he isn't running in 2008--especially at this point. He isn't going to jump in now with people preoccupied with the holidays coming up (not necessarily people on DU, but most other people)and then Iowa almost immediately after the New Year.

[MrSlayer]

50. I think it would depend on the result.

If he wins it looks tremendously "masterful". If he somehow were to lose it would look stupid, vainglorious and pretentious.