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WHY do we bitch about the price of gas/oil??

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Rosemary2205 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-10-07 11:58 AM
Original message
WHY do we bitch about the price of gas/oil??
Edited on Sat Nov-10-07 11:59 AM by Rosemary2205
80% of the people in this country spend every single penny they get paid and then some (debts up the hoohah). What difference does it make if it goes to big corporation Exxon or big corporation Target/Publix/Kroger/Walmart (ugh)/Sony/blah blah blah.

No money left at the end of the month is the same either way.

What exactly is it about big oil profits that piss us off so much and other corporate profits don't?
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MethuenProgressive Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-10-07 12:03 PM
Response to Original message
1. Because gas was $1.35 before two oil milti millionaires were elected as Pres and Veep?
Just guessing here...
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lame54 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-10-07 12:05 PM
Response to Reply #1
3. Walmart pisses me off Coke pisses me off
There are many bad corps. but the worst offenders should get the most heat
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Rosemary2205 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-10-07 12:06 PM
Response to Reply #1
4. Maybe, but
it seems to me it goes beyond a simple extension of Bushco hate. There are A LOT of Americans bitching about the price of gas who don't have the massive hatred for Bushco that I and other DUers have.

The dynamic seems more complicated to me.
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lame54 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-10-07 12:12 PM
Response to Reply #4
6. I have don't have to shop Walmart I don't have to drink Coke but...
i have to have gas - it's not a choice because these corps could have come up with an alternative by now but have refused to purposely
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MrCoffee Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-10-07 12:04 PM
Response to Original message
2. give it 10-15 years...when we start bitching about the price of water,
that's when it's going to get real interesting.
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hobbit709 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-10-07 12:08 PM
Response to Original message
5. Some us have every dollar go to the basics
Edited on Sat Nov-10-07 12:10 PM by hobbit709
House payment
Utilities
Groceries
Gas to get to work

It's been 3 years since I could even go somewhere for a weekend and with gas going up it'll be even longer. My credit card debt is a whopping $300, so most of my money doesn't go to pay them. I was making about $30k/yr when I got laid off in 2001-now I'm making about $8k. My wife makes $25K. So it's not debt up the hoohah that's killing us-just the constant nickel and dime increases in groceries, gas and utilities. We have a 20 year old car and a 15 year old truck so we don't have car payments to worry about but then you end up with repair-like the $300 timing belt that turned into $1500.
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tabasco Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-10-07 12:12 PM
Response to Original message
7. Yeah, why get angry when you're hungry and cold?
Hey, there's gas in the car!

:woohoo:
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unpossibles Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-10-07 12:21 PM
Response to Original message
8. you're joking I hope
gas is not only a quasi-necessity for most people, but because it also affects every other necessity, such as the price of food.

Discretionary spending (that credit card debt you mention) is down, actually, and necessity spending is up almost doubling in terms of inflation-adjusted dollar value since 1975.
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/21309318/?GT1=10450

Sure, it seems like we spend more on gadgets and whatnot from Walmart, etc., but those things have gotten far cheaper than they used to be. Also, a lot of debt is due to living expenses and medical bills, some of which could be trimmed and some not.

While we could stand to learn how to drive less and make gas less of a personal necessity, for most people it is a huge expense that they cannot not pay every month.
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bunnies Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-10-07 12:23 PM
Response to Original message
9. Everybody *needs* gas / oil....
We dont have to buy a coke if we dont want to. Furthermore, it impacts the price of everything else... including other things we need. Like food!
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taterguy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-10-07 12:32 PM
Response to Reply #9
12. The question is how much of it do we need
Hell, I've spend a lot more money on cokes than I do on gas.

Of course I did make a conscious decision to live in a convenient place so I wouldn't have to drive very often.

Silly me.
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alfredo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-10-07 12:27 PM
Response to Original message
10. I'm on a fixed income. The price of oil affects the price of food.
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Bucky Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-10-07 12:32 PM
Response to Original message
11. Because it reminds people of the fix we got into by not developing alternatives sooner
Some people do manage to put some of their money into retirement funds, savings accounts, college funds, etc. Rising prices eat away at our livelihood, at our ability to spend pocket money on that variable expenses that would more efficiently create domestic jobs.

But mostly, it's a useful reminder of the need to develop viable energy sources other than the depletable petrofuels that we crutch our economy on.

Plus, DU is a great forum for bitching.
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Rosemary2205 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-10-07 12:41 PM
Response to Reply #11
16. Actually I meant America in general not just DU.
And, IMHO it's going to be the same big oil companies that profit now, who profit off the alternatives. SOMEONE is going to profit off the alternatives and I don't see it being any cheaper for the average American to survive. When food is converted to energy then it's going to affect us the same way transportation costs affect food cost now. IMHO that is a wash, money wise.

We have an overall system of massive greed at the top that is pushing the standard of living down for most Americans and yet we choose to direct most of our disgust toward big Oil (well, big Pharm too, to a lesser extent).

I guess I'm just curious as to why Americans picked big Oil to hate.
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B Calm Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-10-07 12:33 PM
Response to Original message
13. They get tax subsidies to steal our oil, then they sell it back to us
with huge profits.
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spanone Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-10-07 12:34 PM
Response to Original message
14. but seriously.
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Breeze54 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-10-07 12:38 PM
Response to Original message
15. Because of Cheney's SECRET ENERGY DEAL!!
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2005/11/15/AR2005111501842.html">Document Says Oil Chiefs Met With Cheney Task Force

By Dana Milbank and Justin Blum
Washington Post Staff Writers
Wednesday, November 16, 2005; Page A01

A White House document shows that executives from big oil companies met with Vice President Cheney's energy task force in 2001 -- something long suspected by environmentalists but denied as recently as last week by industry officials testifying before Congress.

The document, obtained this week by The Washington Post, shows that officials from Exxon Mobil Corp., Conoco (before its merger with Phillips), Shell Oil Co. and BP America Inc. met in the White House complex with the Cheney aides who were developing a national energy policy, parts of which became law and parts of which are still being debated.

"The White House went to great lengths to keep these meetings secret, and now oil executives
may be lying to Congress about their role in the Cheney task force," Lautenberg said.


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B Calm Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-10-07 12:49 PM
Response to Original message
17. How I long for the days when Iraq use to flood the oil market with cheap oil..
Now we know the rest of the story.
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warren pease Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-10-07 02:25 PM
Response to Original message
18. Free marketeers don't; commodities speculators don't; they love this crap...
The Milton Friedmans of the world have shoved this free market myth down our throats for decades. We've elected three presidents (election being impossible but unnecessary for the current sock puppet in chief) who espouse this doctrine -- Reagan, Bush I and Clinton I. If any of the corporate-approved candidates/shills wins in 2008 -- and who's to stop them when the only good guys running are labeled "unelectable fringe candidates" -- we'll have had more than 30 years worth of US economic doctrine based on this utterly inhumane brand of tough-shit capitalism.

Enough Americans bought enough of Friedman, et al's bullshit to elect these anti-worker, pro-corporatist, pro-Wall St. economic Darwinists, who began shilling for the bliss of unrestrained capitalism -- which is just code for institutionalized greed run amok -- from the day they took office and never let up. And when the federal government provides the "invisible hand" by collaborating with various favored industries, then waging proxy wars for raw materials on behalf of their corporate masters, it's the so-called perfect storm of collusion, corruption and cronyism combining to create an economic environment that's designed to encourage corporate vampires to bleed consumers dry, leaving just enough in the bank for another round of unrepentant screwing when the time's right.

But the voters feasted on this ideological garbage because it produced the results they had been taught by mass media and the right wing orchestra to value: low prices and throw-away goods, consumerism as national religion, the mall as all-American pleasure dome, reduced governmental regulatory oversight, reduced union influence, continual reductions in labor costs, off-shoring manufacturing to cheap labor regions leading to further suppression of American wages, and so on as the corporate world races for the bottom.

All these outcomes are seen as net positives by free-traders and mirrored by consumers who have been taught, per the cliche, the price of everything and the value of nothing.

This is why the obscene profits being raked in by the fossil fuels industry infuriate me, along with those being raked in by the war industry, the fast foods industry, the investment and financial services industry, the big box industry, the pharmaceutical industry, the for-profit medical industry and on down the list.

An informed, aware, educated and activist citizenry would have put a halt to this scam by burying Reagan under a Carter landslide back in 1980. The late 20th century American chowder head, though, dim as a guttering candle and thick as a railroad tie, bought the myth, voted enthusiastically for it and gave Reagan his "mandate" to finalize the destruction of American society and, in its place, create 260 or so million semi-autonomous city states constantly at war with one another over a dwindling supply of goods, services, jobs and houses.

By the time it became obvious to even the chowder heads that this type of renegade capitalism was a double-edged sword that could come back to slash them in the wallet, it was too late. NAFTA, GATT, CAFTA, the upcoming North American Alliance -- all designed to benefit the most voracious, predatory and amoral capitalists while marginalizing and ultimately silencing the dissenting voices of those who've been screwed yet again in the name of economic pragmatism.

In this environment, asking oil companies to explain why they're gouging their customers is like asking a vulture to justify eating carrion. It's the nature of the beast.

So despite nationwide sniveling over gas prices -- most likely from many of those same people who embraced free market ideology so enthusiastically -- it's hypocritical to extol the virtues of an unregulated free-market system and then whine when that system works exactly according to plan.

By law, the only obligation of a publicly held for-profit US company is maximizing return on investment for the sole benefit of its stockholders and senior management. Going easy on the consumer -- particularly when the consumer is absolutely addicted to the product and a de facto monopoly exists among the alleged competitors -- is pretty far down the list of corporate priorities.


wp
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Rosemary2205 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-10-07 11:30 PM
Response to Reply #18
19. Good post.
thanks
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