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ProSense Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-07-07 09:50 AM
Original message
Kerry: Fighting To Stop Torture

Fighting To Stop Torture

by John Kerry
Wed Nov 07, 2007 at 06:10:47 AM PST
OK, enough double-talk and obfuscations from the Republicans. Let’s get it out in the open: who believes the United States should never use torture, and who does not?

No more statements like the typical Republican response, “We won’t comment on specific procedures we may or may not do.” Let’s get specific and show everyone what makes America America: We don’t torture, and waterboarding is torture.

I opposed Judge Mukasey’s nomination because of his refusal to take a stand on whether or not waterboarding is torture.

But he said that if Congress passed a law that made it clear where we stood on this reprehensible practice, he’d enforce it. So, here we go: let’s define waterboarding as torture once and for all.

I’m a cosponsor of Sen. Kennedy’s bill that defines a wide variety of specific things as torture, including waterboarding. It’s another reminder why I am so proud to be Ted’s colleague. But it’s also another reminder that those who suggest there’s nothing we can do to stop a run-away executive are just dead wrong – if we’ve got the courage of our convictions.

more


(emphasis added)


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TayTay Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-07-07 10:14 AM
Response to Original message
1. AG Nominee Mukasey said
that if torture were defined, he would uphold the law banning it. There is a law banning torture, however, the Bush Admin can't figure out what torture is. This bill defines what torture is and takes away the 'wiggle room' the Admin uses to excuse their behavior.
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Lerkfish Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-07-07 10:40 AM
Response to Original message
2. good for Kerry!
bravo.
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MBS Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-07-07 10:43 AM
Response to Original message
3. bravo, Senator Kerry
This is a man who continues to walk the walk every day.
I am so proud that he is my senator.
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gratuitous Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-07-07 10:51 AM
Response to Original message
4. So put a hold on the nomination, Senator
Is this a serious fight, or isn't it? Are the consequences real or rhetorical? I believe this is serious and real. If you think so too, Mr. Kerry, then put a hold on this nomination and stop it from coming to a floor vote.
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beachmom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-07-07 11:00 AM
Response to Reply #4
5. The hold will be overturned in a split second. They need 3/5th to overturn
and they will, unfortunately. But damnit all, I agree with what you say in spirit. We need some theater and some fight coming from the two senators from Mass. and more senators joining in.
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blm Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-07-07 12:13 PM
Response to Reply #5
8. I agree - but it's a safe guess Pakistan is occupying 95% of Kerry's attention
at this point.
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ohtransplant Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-07-07 11:29 AM
Response to Original message
6. I appreciate Senator Kerry making a principled stand.
I'll rely on him to determine the best approach and/or forum.

Where are the rest of our Dems on Sen. Kennedy's bill?

If more of them stood on principle instead of continually triangulating, we'd have a real live opposition party * would have to deal with.

Bravo to Sens Kerry and Kennedy!
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Cha Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-07-07 12:08 PM
Response to Original message
7. Thanks Kerry! Which reminds me..
how does mccain stand on this whole mukasey deal?
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Senator Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-07-07 12:15 PM
Response to Original message
9. No, We Do NOT "Need To Do This"
We do not need to "define" a damn thing. The "defining" has been over for hundreds of years and the "legislative fight" has been over for generations -- US CODE Title 18,2441 War Crimes.

And we do not need our oath-bound, sitting Senators to be circulating petitions. We can do that for ourselves.

We need our "leaders" to DO their damn jobs. We need them to defend the US Constitution and fulfill our treaty obligations.

That means demanding impeachment and prosecution of known war criminals. Even if that isn't convenient right now and makes for tense Georgetown cocktail parties.

Anything else -- like this drivel -- is the "double-talk and obfuscations."

It is the DC Dems that need to "hear the voice of the American people."

Failure to impeach is complicity -- approval -- exoneration for the regime.

Stop talking and start DOING.

----
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karynnj Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-07-07 12:19 PM
Response to Reply #9
10. The Senate does not impeach
the House does.
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Senator Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-07-07 12:29 PM
Response to Reply #10
11. Senators can speak out and lead
at least they once could.

--
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ProSense Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-07-07 02:14 PM
Response to Original message
12. Kick! n/t
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fedupinBushcountry Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-07-07 04:50 PM
Response to Original message
13. K&R
:kick:
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cal04 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-07-07 04:55 PM
Response to Original message
14. Fighting To Stop Torture (Updatedx3)
update: Many of you have mentioned that torture is already illegal, and that there are laws against waterboarding in particular. And that's true. And, until this President, we never had a chief executive who wanted to blur those lines. But this President has been intent on defining "torture" differently, and his Administration claims that the CIA is not bound by the same statutes as the military. That was why Judge Mukasey's refusal to define waterboarding as torture worried me: that ambiguity seemed consistent with the Administration's views. So, what this legislation does is make it completely clear that all of our government is bound by the same restrictions as the military, period. It explicitly says that waterboarding is torture, and is therefore illegal. It closes a loophole that the Administration has been intent on exploiting.

We could argue until we're blue in the face on whether that loophole is real or not, but that won't stop anything. We need to assert the power of the legislative branch and make clear exactly what the law is, for this and all future Administrations. We need to do what we can to make it crystal clear what we stand for as a nation.

update2: Another update - I find it's better to answer common questions up here.

Many of you asked what the purpose of the petition is and where that fits in to the campaign. Petitions are good for one thing: letting people know a lot of people care about an issue. So I'll submit the numbers and list of people on the petition to my colleagues to let them know how many Americans want a change on this. But that can't be the end; petitions are only the first step, just to get people's attention. We need to do much, much more, and I intend on doing so. We need to keep building up the pressure, calling in to Congress and especially raise the heat in our greater society over this. So the petition is a great first step, but, like I said, it's only a first step. I've seen too many petitions in my time that weren't followed up with effective advocacy, and I'm determined that won't happen here. If a petition is the whole campaign, that's not much of a campaign and won't change people's minds.

update3: OK, to answer another recurring question: no, this doesn't immunize anyone or give legal cover to prior activities. This simply makes clear that the Army's guidelines governing the military's conduct also apply to every agency of the American government. Vice President Cheney tried to get the Republican Congress to create a special loophole for the CIA in 2005 that muddied the waters on what they could and couldn't do. It's that perceived loophole they are trying to exploit, as I mentioned earlier. We're bringing clarity to this issue, rather than allowing any bad behavior to fester in the shadows. But, just to be clear, this doesn't, as some people have asked, create any immunity for any actions that were illegal before. We're just shining a bright light on this behavior, drawing clear lines that even the Bush Administration or future Republican Administration (if there are any) will understand, and saying, "Our government will not torture. Ever."

http://www.dailykos.com/story/2007/11/7/908/72619
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