Bill Clinton: Don't pick on my wife, she served in Vietnam

[Generator]

Yes, Hillary was "swift boated" by fellow Dems.

I know many love and loathe Kerry here. (I was mostly in the love camp) Well, this pisses me off. The Cintons are whinners to the core.



http://www.huffingtonpost.com/huff-wires/20071106/obama-ap-interview/

— Barack Obama said Tuesday that former President Clinton is making a leap to compare treatment of his wife in the presidential race to the "swift boat" criticism of John Kerry in 2004.
~
He said that when debating last week whether illegal immigrants should be given driver's licenses, Hillary Rodham Clinton "seemed to contradict what she said previously."

Both Obama and John Edwards have criticized her repeatedly on that score, but Obama said in the interview: "How you would then draw an analogy to distorting somebody's military record is a reach."

Sen. Chris Dodd, another candidate for the Democratic presidential nomination, called the Clintons' response to the debate "outrageous."

"To have the former president come out and suggest this is a form of swiftboating ... is way over the top in my view," Dodd said in a telephone interview.

[Why Syzygy]

1. NO comparison.

Kerry was not my first choice. But this is ridiculous. She best buckle in if she's going on the ride.

[ShortnFiery]

6. I can't believe that such intelligent advisers are playing "The Victim Card"?!?

No way can HRC get to The Presidency acting like a hapless victim. And NO, most people don't envision Bill Clinton *hogging the political spotlight* for low, the next eight years - so why is he so DAMN VOCAL lately? You'd think it was him or his DLC that was running for The Presidency. :shrug:

They are stepping all over themselves and torquing off the electorate. Perhaps they are so out of touch that they truly believe this CRAP can work for them? :(

[Why Syzygy]

18. Not to mention

the swiftboating of Kerry was done by RW extremists and had nothing to do with legitimate campaigning. It implies a nasty, dirty, underhanded, RW, chickenshit trick.

[The Backlash Cometh]

78. At this point, since waffling doesn't seem to work for her,

she should go balls to the wall and just talk from the heart, tell the world what she really believes in.

[FiveGoodMen]

93. Do you think she knows what she believes in?

Serious question.

[The Backlash Cometh]

95. Yes, I do.

I think the Clintons got so burned in the 90s for doing what was right, that they're afraid to do it again. Hillary Clinton just doesn't realize her strengths. She knows better than most how the corporate networks work, she can walk in and start snipping off the loopholes, or she can just gamble that waffling will work.

[JeanGrey]

85. I think a lot of people think that Bill will be back in the

driver's seat, pretty much.

[roguevalley]

98. Agreed. This isn't a coronation. We already had that. She has to

stand up and take it. If she can't, then get the hell out of the way. I am tired of whining.

[BlueIris]

101. votes, you are awesome.

[durrrty libby]

2. Any so called dem that would disparage Bill needs to get a grip and hold on tight

[DefenseLawyer]

5. What does that mean exactly?

Hillary Clinton can't be criticized, and now Bill Clinton can't be criticized either? If I question Bill Clinton's unfortunate use of the term "swiftboating" I am a so-called Democrat? What if I criticize Don't Ask/ Don't Tell? Am I a so-called Democrat? I'm not sure how long you have been a Democrat, Durrrty, but we don't canonize our leaders, a la St. Ronnie. We actually think for ourselves.

[durrrty libby]

10. And all your assumptions are lame.........enjoy

[Patchuli]

104. Your efforts

to troll, as usual are what is lame.

If Hill can't take the heat, she needs to get out of the kitchen. Bill just needs to shut up. We listened to him for long enough.

[OwnedByFerrets]

34. Great post mf ... nt

[JeffR]

45. Durrrty doesn't think, period

and gives ample evidence of that on this board every damn day.

[TahitiNut]

65. Gawd! That's for sure.

:thumbsup:

[burythehatchet]

88. Ignore is always your friend.

:)

[JeffR]

89. And it seems Ignored has kept really busy in this thread

:)

[burythehatchet]

90. I always chuckle when Ignored is having a raging debate

with EVERY respondant to a post.

[JeffR]

94. .

:spray:

[waiting for hope]

105. Yes it is - I saw a few ignores and then

the other posts her name......she actually cried (!Gasp!) albeit sarcastically when I said Welcome to my Ignore List..I must say, it has made my DU experience much saner!

[Forkboy]

99. You got that right.

Blinders on...full speed ahead!

[Richard Steele]

8. Pfft. Because he's so perfect, and beyond the reproach of us mere mortals?

Sorry- real Dems don't go in for that sort of
hero-worshiping nonsense.

We like to think for ourselves, and we criticize
whatever we feel deserves criticism. Even if it
comes from a man who was a good President.

[durrrty libby]

11. Your Hate for his wife is puerile and sick

[Richard Steele]

15. Your ridiculous accusations aren't going to make anyone here stop expressing their opinions.

It's kinda sad that you haven't figured that out yet.

Do you have ANYTHING to bring to a DU discussion
besides these childish personal attacks? If so,
I'd like to see it sometime.

[durrrty libby]

19. Right back atcha...iggy

Edit to add...No cement cookie yet?

Hang on.. xmas is coming

[Richard Steele]

51. .

[Forkboy]

100. Nope,sadly they haven't tombstoned your dusty ass yet.

Hang on...Festivus is coming! :crazy:

[LittleClarkie]

52. Why do you hate America?

Why are you a hater?

As if someone who might criticize the woman couldn't possibly have logical reasons why. As if criticism was equal to hate.

[Why Syzygy]

20. Hold on?

For what? This is not his finest moment or best judgment. He should know better.

[Ghost in the Machine]

59. Pffffffttttttt... Bill "but I didn't inhale" Clinton is a real bastion of truth, huh?

Bill "I didn't have sex with that woman" Clinton

Bill "it depends on the definition of 'is'" Clinton

yeah.... *who* needs to "get a grip and hold on tight"? Methinks it might be you instead. Hold on tight to your dreams, honey....

[karynnj]

62. Can't we say that he is wrong when he is - as he is here

This hurts his wife - her own response that she was not at her best at that debate was much better. This comment insults all her opponents, the intelligence of most Democrats and especially Max Cleland and John Kerry, who really were attacked.

[goclark]

72. I loved HC's response to the debate.

That sounded honest and Presidential to me.

Bush would never have the grace or the brains to say what HC said.

Hats off to her and as much as I love Bill, he sounded like a "husband protecting his wife who is not able to speak for herself."

She, IMO, should not be painted in that way,she doesn't need a man to "protect" her. She can stand on her own two feet.

[Double T]

3. That's why we should NEVER question the Clinton's position on important issues?

Sorry, I don't need a Clinton or a woman to become President that badly.

[Bitwit1234]

4. And so it goes St. Obama straightens his halo and slings the shit

[Andromeda]

75. Teehee

:bounce:

[babylonsister]

7. Where the FUCK was Bill Clinton during the swiftboating of John Kerry?

He's full of shit and is disingenuous to even bring it up.

[Generator]

9. That's what I was thinking/nt

[durrrty libby]

12. Hating dem presidents is putrid and vile

[Why Syzygy]

26. "puerile and sick"

"putrid and vile". Could I get your views on exactly what the Democratic Party stands for, exactly?

[MadHound]

28. An expansive vocabulary?

These days about the only thing is what the Dems don't stand for, the rule of law and the common man.

[Why Syzygy]

30. The PARTY.

Not the Posers.

[MadHound]

32. It is becoming increasingly difficult to tell the difference between the two

Kucinich and a few others are about the only true party members left in Congress. The rest are, as you say, posers.

[jgraz]

40. Now how did I know durrty would have a big fat *cricket noise* on that one

Who cares what the Democratic party stands for??? Just stop criticizing them! :rofl:

[Richard Steele]

48. Because REAL Dems don't ask questions!

:rofl:

[Richard Steele]

103. A browser tab opened to "Thesaurus.com" seems a prerequisite for her vision of the party. nm

[Zhade]

42. Lockstep thinking is far worse.

Enjoy the kool-aid.

[durrrty libby]

47. I don't do sugar...you?

[dionysus]

83. you don't do thinking before you post bullshit either...

[babylonsister]

60. What if they're putrid and vile? Huh? nt

[Dorian Gray]

80. Since when is justified

criticism the same as "hating?" I think that allegations of hating Bill Clinton here is "putrid and vile." Because there isn't any such thing except for a little disappointment in his shortsightedness in this particular instance. :eyes:

[Cha]

14. That's what I was going to ask?

We know where hillary was when everyone was piling on Kerry about "the joke"..stickin' the long knives in Kerry's back! So yeah, it's beyond disingenuous..it's stupid.

[lyonn]

24. Remember, don't do as I do, do as I say

The assault on Kerry was not necessary. Enough repubs had been and were doing enough trashing and lying that Kerry certainly didn't need a high ranking Dem hacking too. Sometimes it seems the Clintons worked so hard defending themselves against the right wing attacks, and there truly were RW attacks, that they forgot how to relate to regular people. Kinda sad.

[Cha]

27. She was taking Kerry out of

her way so she could forge ahead with front runner status. She could have played things so differently but she chose the sneaky souless way.

[Why Syzygy]

29. That's right!

A Democratic victory would have thrown her schedule out of whack.

[Cha]

33. Noo..this was after the 2004 election

when this happened so Kerry was going to run again, undoubtedly, and she needed him gone, like yesterday.

[Richard Steele]

16. He "had other priorities". nm

[durrrty libby]

35. "nm" indeed and as usual

[Dorian Gray]

81. Wow

you're not exactly burning up the board with long discussion of why, in this instance, it's wrong to criticize Bill Clinton. Or why he is right. I wouldn't criticize others of a "nm" in their subject heading when you've not been adding anything beyond, much, yourself.

[Forkboy]

102. LOL...I can't believe you just complained about that.

You make me look like fucking Tolstoy and you're complaining that someone doesn't post enough for you?

:rofl:

You're on a roll today.I've been laughing at you since I logged on.Glad everyone else gets to see the depth of your thinking abilities.

[JI7]

22. hanging out with pappy, saying he likes both Bush and Kerry

[AuntPatsy]

58. I have full admiration for you I honestly do but in my opinion your anger is misplaced.

Sometimes I think we forget our leaders are human and they do not always act in ways or say the things we would like them to do.

Its entirely possible that Clinton did condemn the Kerry bashers and we just never heard it, very possible in fact.

[babylonsister]

61. OR, he wanted Kerry to fail so his wife could win 4 years later? nt

[AuntPatsy]

64. Do you really think so? the only way that I could even remotely

consider that theory is if she was promised it in four years if he kept fairly silent. I do recall for a time then when he seemed glued to Poppy's side, was that before of after his surgery? I always for some reason questioned exactly what made him sick...I always had a funny feeling about that though I know it could be seen as far fetched, how hard they seemed to work to destroy him leaves me to believe it's entirely possible his hospital stay was a warning to both him and his wife.

[babylonsister]

66. Did he ever defend Kerry? Yes, I really, really think so, and the proof is now.

It had nothing to do with his heart; during Kerry's campaign, do you recall Bill Clinton saying anything about the swiftboating of Kerry? HE was keeping his powder dry for his wife, and I think that sucks.

[AuntPatsy]

73. yes he did defend Kerry Babylonsister at least according to faux news..

CLINTON: ANTI-KERRY AD BEARS 'FALSE WITNESS'
Monday, August 30, 2004

·
NEW YORK — Former President Bill Clinton defended John Kerry on Sunday, telling FOX News that one of the independent campaign ads questioning Kerry's Vietnam service bore "false witness."
"There has been too much controversy or discussion about the politics of it and little about its merits," Clinton told FOX News' Geraldo Rivera. "The ad was paid for by a big supporter of the president and the campaign's lawyer and one of the military advisers participate accurately in it and it was wrong. It was false witness."



So far, the group Swift Boat Veterans for Truth (search) has released several ads critical of Kerry's actions or comments during and after the Vietnam War. Although he did not specify which ad he was talking about, Clinton likely was talking about an ad the group ran that said Kerry was lying about what happened in Vietnam.

"All the guys that were on the boat with him say he told the truth. The records say he told the truth. There have been no serious disputes about any of the incidents in which he earned his medals," Clinton said outside the Landmark Riverside Church in upper Manhattan.

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,130532,00.html

[karynnj]

91. For all the people who criticize Kerry as slow to react - look at that date

August 30. This was nearly a month after it started - well after Kerry had already gotten most of the print media to condemn it. It is good that he said this - but he clearly did not devote much effort to this - here, he clearly just answered reporters questions.

[AzDar]

77. Spot-on. John Kerry was LIED about; slandered. During the most recent Dem debate, the other

candidates pointed out (quite vocally) Hillary's apparent change of official position on a single issue within the space of two minutes!
Pointing out inconsistencies in a Presidential candidate is entirely necessary and desirable; it is NOT 'swiftboating'.
Perhaps if W. J. Clinton had been around more in 2004, and had indeed, had John Kerry's back (as it were) rather than trying to better position his wife for a run in 2008, he'd be aware of the glaringly obvious differences...

[BeHereNow]

13. Bill, let's talk instead of Hillary's time on the board of WALMART.

You know, the purveyors of LEAD tainted toys and slave labor-
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yQ5sLGYdk44

WAKE UP AMERICA
The NWO is upon you, courtesy of the Clintons, working
WITH the neocons, the Trilateral Commission and and the CFR.
Still don't "get it?"
Then you get what you deserve.
BHN

[madrchsod]

17. i thought hillary was supposed to stand on her own two feet?

why does she need bill to come to her rescue?

[Name removed]

21. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[babylonsister]

56. In your dreams. She needs a second, or third, look. I can't imagine

being as mindless as you are without accounting for the rest of the candidates. Your drooling will be your downfall.

[Rosa Luxemburg]

23. I wonder why we bother having primaries?

[MadHound]

25. Pfft! So now legit criticism and honest debate is somehow swiftboating?

Gee, methinks I smell some desperation coming from the Clinton camp.

[Why Syzygy]

31. I like to see her whine.

Shows what she's made of.

[durrrty libby]

37. Poor..poor you

[Why Syzygy]

55. Mirror Mirror on the wall ...

[durrrty libby]

36. "smell"

[MadHound]

38. Yes, that is the word I used.

What, you have a reading comprehension problem or just like to mindlessly repeat things? Somehow I think it's the latter.

[durrrty libby]

39. "you think"

[MadHound]

41. Cool, stream of conciousness.

Thanks, but I've seen that trick before, good night:hi:

[durrrty libby]

46. Back atcha

:loveya:

[Faryn Balyncd]

43. Stench . . .

[durrrty libby]

49. ........

:loveya:

[BeHereNow]

44. It's known as the "echo chamber response"

Participants in the technique are known for
vapid and mindless blather intended to pass for
intelligent discourse- do not be fooled.

The ignore button IS your friend!:thumbsup:

BHN

[KittyWampus]

82. you know, I took everyone off my ignore a long time ago and swore I wouldn't use it again.

time to make an exception.

[Schema Thing]

50. Bill's comparison was very tame; very mild

It should not have even been noted.

Read what he actually said... it warrants none of the mock outrage.

[Why Syzygy]

53. He made a direct comparison.

“We listened to people make snide comments about whether Vice President Gore was too stiff,” Mr. Clinton said, “and when they made dishonest claims about the things that he said that he’d done in his life. When that scandalous Swift boat ad was run against Senator Kerry.”

“Why am I saying this?” he continued. “Because I had the feeling that at the end of that last debate we were about to get into cutesy land again.”

http://www.nytimes.com/2007/11/07/us/politics/07campaign.html?ref=politics

[Name removed]

67. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[babylonsister]

69. Because an article from the NYT is quoted? Why is that sucky? nt

[Why Syzygy]

86. It never fails.

I didn't see the deleted post. I went to news.google and the headline story was FOX, so I went to the next one, NYT. It's really rather amusing to see supposedly intelligent DUers snipe a NEWS story because of its printed source. They all print the same thing. It isn't an oped! Shoot the messenger.

[babylonsister]

70. You are ... grasping. Don't be mean-it doesn't become you. nt

[Richard Steele]

71. Really? How do you figure? nm

[karynnj]

63. I read it and don't like the trivialization of the word

[Guaranteed]

54. Wow. Digging a hole, here.

She ought to just accept that she got her ass kicked, learn from it- THAT would be nice!- and move on.

[AuntPatsy]

57. This enrages you? I'm not sure about you but the abuse the whole family

have taken for years now is fairly common knowledge, comparing it is mute, the pain I am sure they felt was real, the attacks were vicious and uncalled for, many of them...

I don't think President Clinton is over the top at all, in fact, I am surprised he has not been more condemning of the attacks his family has taken and like it or not,Sen Hillary Clinton is a candidate for President and simply because it is so does not make this kind of bashing expectable.

We teach our children to behave better, it sickens me that they watch and hear how leaders of our country behave and yet we are telling them they are not allowed to act that way?

No name calling, no gossiping?

What is wrong with the adults of this country to allow these stupid child like games to be played to the youth of this country as acceptable newsworthy items?

[Swamp Rat]

68. LOLOL!! Really bad move.

The Clinton's just fucked up big-time. :dunce:

[AuntPatsy]

74. I just spent quite some time researching old swiftboating news,

don't let this new attack on Clinton about such a silly issue be gotten away with, its nothing more than old tactics once again by the gop, lets quit helping them use the same tired old crap

It made me sick to read all of that and what they did to Kerry, the rage he felt and the rage he showed and to this day people accuse him of being too silent???? Excuse me where were they when he was expressing his rage? Watching faux news?

[karynnj]

79. I agree with you - it is easy to see the rage and anger that Kerry felt

when you listen to his very controlled response before the Firemen's conference. The audience clearly got it and responded. I had been impressed at the time that Kerry was able to both control the intense rage he felt and to not let it keep him from speaking of 2004 issues and from reaching out to try to win over people who disagreed with him. The internal discipline that he is capable of was inspiring.

The new attack on Hillary can be divided into 2 issues - her propensity not to give definite answers on many things and the immigration issues. The former is not swiftboating - it is more equivalent to the flip flop charge in 2004. That is an oldie but goodie as far as Republican charges go. Kerry was actually less quilty of this than most politicians, but with the media's help, the Republicans got some mileage with it. (Kerry did help them with his shorthand on the $87 billion after he had just a few questions earlier given a complete answer, but with the Republicans filming over 12 hours a day any candidate is going to misspeak. A few 2008 candidates have already had more gaffes than Kerry had in the entire 2004 race.) The second is immigration, which may be the new "gay marriage" as the Republican wedge issue. It will impact not just HRC, but any Democrat.

Neither is equivilent to swiftboating. Clinton saying so misdiagnoses the problems. On, not giving answers, HRC has to at least appear more decisive or convince people there is virtue to not doing so. On immigration, the Democrats need to educate people on the real alternatives. The hatred shown when Durbin's Dream bill was defeated needs to be examined. That bill was designed to help kids who may know no other country. The fact is that there are at least 12 million illegal aliens here, many with American kids. Are we going to break up families? The Democrats do have a more open, humane view of the illegal aliens than the Republicans do. We need to sell those ideas and define clearly what our position really is. Immigration is an issue - not a slur.

Calling either of these things swiftboating trivializes what happened to Cleland and Kerry. It also weakens a word we may need in the future when completely untrue, extremely negative charges are thrown at Democrats. Here the charges are relatively mild or accurate. I am surprised that after some of the attacks that the Clintons did have in the 1990s (when they did have the WH to counter them from), that he finds these charges in the same ballpark as the SBVT. Not to mention, to date, they haven't responded to either of these 2 charges as strongly as JK did to the SBVT before the Firefighters - and he didn't have the advantage of a spouse who was a former President with the megaphone that gives.

For anyone who does not get the difference, here is a video from the Premiere of a movie made on PTSD. Max Cleland explains his battles with PTSD that returned after he lost. Del Sanduski (sp?), one of Kerry's crew members spoke of how he and Kerry's other real swiftboat veterans were affected. Those attacks hit not only John Kerry, but the far more fragile men who stood with him. Saying that Hillary waffles does not typically lead to pain and depression those attacks brought on. The Cleland comments here are extraordinary. http://ksgaccman.harvard.edu/iop/events_forum_video.asp?ID=2973

[casus belli]

76. Meh, not that surprising.

Maybe soon we'll get to see him challenge his wife's critics to a fist-fight to defend her honor. At least that might prove entertaining.

I have always considered them both to be highly intelligent people, so I'm a little confused as to why either of them thinks it's a good idea to continually put it in front of people in an effort to drum up sympathy.

[JeanGrey]

84. Oh come on! Who is really surprised by this? Didn't think

the first time Hillary got some heat she wouldn't retreat whining and bring out the Big Dog with a "don't pick on the little girl" scenario? LOL

[Why Syzygy]

87. They are talking about this on the View n/t

[karynnj]

92. What did they say? - how did they react?

It can't help HRC for this to be discussed.

[Why Syzygy]

96. Barbara pointed out that it

was not the same thing as swiftboating. All concurred that Bill and HRC would recover. They seem to like her. I don't usually watch the show. Just happened to have it on.

[karynnj]

97. Thanks

I rarely have watched either, but it seems to have an audience.

[NNN0LHI]

106. This reminds me of the threads back when Drudge lied about Kerry having an intern girlfriend

So-called Dem posters here were on that story like stink on shit too. Like Deja fucking Vu.

We had all kinds of posters jumping on that Republican bandwagon like a bunch of fools.

Seems like people never learn.

I can't believe the mods lets this one go without checking the veracity of the bogus headline and story.

What do you say guys? Lets get a little smarter than this. The fucking freepers are laughing up our asses over us being so gullible.

Don