How can anyone still support Hillary now that a strong American has surfaced?

[Atman]

I didn't "discover" Kucinich until the 2004 primary. My support has swayed between various Dem candidates, with DK's platform always the standard. I've known he is "unelectable" by corporate media/People Magazine standards. But watching this on CSPAN, seeing something finally happen, even if it's tilting at windmills, makes my heart soar.

Compare and contrast this huge man talking right now with Hillary Clinton tap dancing around the most basic of issues.

Why are we letting the media tell us who will be our next president? We're looking at him on CSPAN right now...if only America had half the guts he does.

.

[leftchick]

1. cheney's AIPAC speech Dennis just read is identical to Hillary's

their Iran saber rattling is identical. "All Options Are On The Table"! Scary.

[aquart]

4. No. Standard practice.

Why would any new president tie his or her hands BEFORE going into a tough negotiation?

DID NOBODY HERE TAKE POLITICAL SCIENCE? INTERNATIONAL RELATIONS?

Teddy Roosevelt: Speak softly and carry a big stick.

You would have us do nothing but speak softly? Then why would anyone listen?

[Truth2Tell]

7. The era of the Big Stick is over

Teddy Roosevelt, for all the good he did, was an old fashioned Imperialist. Trying to maintain an Empire by force is suicidal policy for the 21st century. Time to put down the friggin' stick already.

[DangerDave921]

15. You need that stick

As Frederick the Great said (paraphrasing here), diplomacy without military strenghth is like music without instruments.

What if you speak softly and the other side ignores you? What then? Ask again nicely? It reminds me of the Monty Python British cop saying, "Stop! Or I shall yell stop again."

[Truth2Tell]

19. Why do you need to define

other nations as "the other side"? Your analogy about the Monty Python Cops only applies if you believe we should be Cops of the world. We need to think beyond that. It's not our job or our business to tell others to stop anything. We're the ones pointing the nuclear gun at the heads of the rest of the nations of the world. Maybe some cops need to tell us to stop.

[DangerDave921]

21. Sorry

I don't buy the whole "america is the big bully of the world" argument.

Some nations are the "other side." And my Monty Python quote is not about cops per se, but about the futility of empty words that have no means to back them up.

[Truth2Tell]

22. We do have a history

of bullying, whether you buy it or not. We have a particular history of bullying Iran, among others.

I used to believe that exercising American power in service to those seeking freedom and democracy around the world was a worthy cause, i.e. Billy Clinton in Bosnia etc.. however, the more I came to learn about the way we operate, the more I understood that we don't actually exercise our power in support of democracy at all. We exercise it support of our own economic interests, and to that end we subvert and undermine democracy and human rights on a regular basis. That's our history in Iran, as well as in a list of other nations too long to list here.

Add these realities to the fact that we are bankrupting our nation and leaving a huge bill to our children, and it becomes ever clearer that we need to scale back the whole Big Stick strategy and adopt the role of a humble and equal member of the community of nations. It's our only hope.

[Atman]

8. All that saber rattling and capitulating to Bush/Cheney did so well for us last time

How many times do you have to be hit in the head with a 2x4 before you get the hell out of the way, or at least put on a hard hat? You're ready to waltz right back into another fucking bullshit made-up conflict just to show your support for a Bush-Lite corporate whore. What gives? Is it surrogate toughness? You aren't, so you want her to be tough for you?

.

[leftchick]

20. BS!

fighting OIL wars and rattling sabers for US imperialism and Israel is the neocon way. Period.

Her AIPAC Speech is identical to cheney's....

“U.S. policy must be clear and unequivocal,” Clinton told the crowd. “We cannot, we should not, we must not, permit Iran to build or acquire nuclear weapons, and in dealing with this threat, as I have said for a very long time, no option can be taken off the table.”

[truedelphi]

26. People don't want to admit that when they say that THEY are a

Democrat, always were, always will be, that what they relaly mean, is their PARENTS were Democrats.

I look at friends I have known since childhood, and they are happy with the Bush tax breaks.

Or if they don't benefit from those, they sure are happy about CA's Prop 187. (Even though, let's face it - true wealth is best defined over the last fifteen years as watching your home go up in value - the job market has seen an average drop in pay each year.

They are happy to put their company in foreclosure if the workers pensions can go into their own or their spouses' Gold Parachute's funding.

They need a big SUV in order to drive the kids to school and soccer.

They think saving the earth means being a vegetarian, but apparently re-modeling their home every eighteen months is not seen as leaving a carbon footprint.

Oh, they really do want to be "liberal" about immigration but would be less liberal about that if it impacted them negatively.

So I guess it should not surprise us that their choice for President in Repuglican in sheeps clothing, Hillary.

[madokie]

2. Dennis has been trying to tell us he is on top of all this goings on in the bush* wh

maybe now people will start listening to him

[jgraz]

3. Strong Americans were always there...how could anyone EVER support her?

[aquart]

5. Well, seems they do.

Maybe you want to spend ten seconds understanding that. From your superior moral and intellectual height.

[jgraz]

23. It's kind of hard to see you all the way down there

But you do seem kind of comfortable at that level.

That's ok. The folks up here will work for actual change while you're wallowing around in the status quo.

[WA98296]

HRC won't change the status quo. That's why she is the pick of the GOP.

[LeftCoast]

6. Well, if you don't care if anything gets done, I suppose he's your man.

[Atman]

9. Hey, look who's here!

More whine?

.

[LeftCoast]

13. Sorry. I just can't be a Kucinich cheerleader

I know you think that makes me a bad, evil person.

It's an unpopular opinion, but I just don't support Dennis K. I think he's utterly ineffectual on a policy basis no matter what good ideas he may have.

[Atman]

17. I don't think it makes you a bad, evil person.

I think it makes you appear to be an ill-informed person, that's all. I've been one of the strongest "Dennis can't win" posters over the years. His ideas, his platform is probably one you'd write yourself if you were asked what you wanted for America. But he's a short, funny-looking man with ill-fitting clothes, and America wants a tough, rough, handsome president. He can be as dumb as a fake Texas cowboy, as long as he looks and acts tough.

Dennis doesn't look tough. But he walks the walk. So you go ahead and support the People Magazine cover candidate. Maybe Hillary or Obama or Edwards will post their cookie recipes for us, too. In the meantime, the people with the real ideas get sidelined because they're not pretty enough.

.

[NorthernSpy]

24. you really wanna know why things don't get done?

It's because our leadership by and large do not WANT to get anything done. In fact, they accept a lot of money from a lot of powerful people to make good and sure that nothing ever really changes.

So your complaint:

It's an unpopular opinion, but I just don't support Dennis K. I think he's utterly ineffectual on a policy basis no matter what good ideas he may have.

... is possibly the most disingenuous statement ever made on this board.

[BuyingThyme]

10. If you don't mind waiting until at least 2013, Hillary's your woman.

[Truth2Tell]

11. Moved more bills

out of Committee between 97 and 07 than Pelosi.

Dennis has been an extremely effective legislator. But thanks for the RW talking point.

[redqueen]

12. That particular RW talking point is VERY popular here.

Funny, that.

[LeftCoast]

14. Please link

It's hard to argue against being called a RWer if I can't even read your evidence.

[Truth2Tell]

16. RW was out of line. apologies.

be back soon w/links.

[Truth2Tell]

29. OK here

From Gov Track:

Bill Sponsorship & Cosponsorship (toward bottom of each page)

Dennis Kucinich has sponsored 101 bills since Jan 7, 1997, of which 92 haven't made it out of committee (Average)

http://www.govtrack.us/congress/person.xpd?id=400227

Nancy Pelosi has sponsored 55 bills since Jan 7, 1997, of which 48 haven't made it out of committee (Average)

http://www.govtrack.us/congress/person.xpd?id=400314

So 9 bills out of committee for Dennis and 7 for Nancy.

Each had one (1) pass, incidentally. It ain't easy passing legislation in our fine U.S. Congress. But Dennis does just fine.

So don't buy the meme that he doesn't play well with others, RW or otherwise.

[leftofthedial]

18. I've been a Democrat for 34 years

until today


The opposition to Kucinich is led by "democrats."

Nuff said.

[bigwillq]

25. DK has been my guy this whole race.

He is a true American! :bounce:

[Mira]

27. It makes me so happy to hear and see his support swell.

Kucinich is my choice forever and always, unless Al Gore comes in and automatically wins.
I wanted to marry him and then he met Elizabeth. Damn !
His work on getting the Department for Peace established is not mentioned often, but he is tireless in his efforts.
A real American hero, one we need to celebrate with great pride.

[Mira]

28. Forgot to kick it - K&R