Message to the Wingers: Israel is NOT part of the United States

[MrScorpio]

That much should be obvious that Israel is its own country with its own wants and needs.

They don't use our Constitution, and they won't even take a good look at you unless you have Jewish blood flowing through your veins.

So why all the cheer leading?

As always, obvious things like this go way over your heads.


(Fixed for accuracy)

[Fredda Weinberg]

1. who says 'you can't even be a citizen unless you converted to Judaism'?

Dat ain't so, dude.

[MrScorpio]

3. Maybe I'm wrong...

But under the principle of Jus Sanguinis one has to at least have Jewish blood flowing through one's veins before they even stand a good chance of being a citizen of Israel.

Most right wing Bible thumpers don't meet that requirement.

[PCIntern]

5. According to the rules of DU

I can't say what I want to say to you but "Jewish Blood" and statements like that are 'incendiary'. I'm not gonna get in trouble here for the likes of you, but it's time for you to take stock of yourself.

[MrScorpio]

6. Excuse me but can you read Latin?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Israeli_nationality_law

"Jus saguinius" is Latin for "Right of blood"

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jus_sanguinis

In the case of Israel, the case is Jewish heritage or "blood"

I think that that would be obvious

[PCIntern]

8. Latin is the language of the Jews...

You're on a roll today, pal.

[LeftishBrit]

13. Bwaha! Yes, it's the official language of Israel.

The main requirement for immigration to Israel is that you must be able to speak Latin!

[Skidmore]

2. Thank you.

This needs to be said for many reasons, one of which is that our national interests are not always the same as those of the nation of Israel. Sometimes they diverge so sharply that it those diehard supporters insist we put our own nation in peril.

[PCIntern]

4. WTF kind of ignorant statement is that assertion

about conversion? You better read up on this stuff before you attempt your disruptive behavior next time.

[MrScorpio]

7. Mea culpa

I changed that portion of the post

[cali]

9. not much of a fix

accuracy seems to go over your head, speaking of the obvious. Why not make a case based on facts, instead of crap you make up?

http://www.mfa.gov.il/MFA/MFAArchive/2000_2009/2001/8/Acquisition%20of%20Israeli%20Nationality

[MrScorpio]

11. Alright, there's the residency requirement conditions as well

Not just the right of return requirement

[LeftishBrit]

10. The UK isn't part of the United States either.

Yet 'wingers' are happy to use both strategically, when it suits them.

One question here - even though I risk encouraging negativity about my own country - BUT: the UK has been a strong ally of America for many years; Blair was Bush's poodle, and dragged our country (unwillingly) into the illegal war; Blair has been much more of an active cheerleader - and liar- for this war than the Israeli leaders have been. Yet I don't see nearly so many shrieks of "Britain isn't a part of the United States!"; "Why all the cheer leading for Britain?"; as I do about Israel. Now Britain doesn't deserve such attackes either (though Blair does!), but this selective hostility to Israel, when the US government has an equally strong ally-cum-pawn-cum-collaborator, which was more strongly implicated in this war, does make me wonder WHY Israel gets brought up so much. And when such a phrase as 'Jewish blood' gets brought up - it makes me suspect a rather ugly reason for some of it. I am NOT saying that the individual posters have ugly attitudes; but I suspect that they get some of their 'info' from biased sources that do.

[cali]

12. It will be interesting to see if you get a response to this

and what that response will consist of. Denial that Israel is brought up in this way far more often than GB? The canard that Israel actually runs the U.S. Gov't?

I never really thought about the phrase "Jewish Blood", but it does have an ugly ring to it.

[MrScorpio]

14. My problem is with pro-apocalypse right wingers who are doing their best

To bind the US so close to Israel that when their "eventual" Armageddon happens, we'll jump right in and help them all get Raptured up, post haste.

About the Jewish blood thingy, perhaps I should have been a little more explicit on Israel's use of the Jus Sanguinus principle and its use in the issue of Right of Return.

Of course, A winger could become naturalized in other ways. But unless Jewish heritage can be proved, Right of Return is not one of them.

[cali]

16. I don't mean to nit pick but

in the piece I just linked to it says the spouse or child of a grandchild of someone who had a Jewish mother was eligable under the Right of Return.

And I have no clue as to what you're talking about when you say; "when their "eventual" Armageddon happens, we'll jump right in and help them all get Raptured up, post haste."

The battle of Armageddon is a biblical myth. And exactly who are you talking about when you say; "we'll jump right in and help them all get raptured up, post haste"? Who's the "we" who will be helping.

Really, you're babbling.

[MrScorpio]

19. The "We" meaning the U.S.

The wingers believe that Armageddon is an eventuality, not a myth.

There are many theories as to whom is going to attack Israel to start WW-III, force Jesus to come back and start up the Rapture. Some say Russia, Iran or whatever... These forces are to be led by the Anti-Christ, of course.

But whomever it is, the wingers are making a point that the US needs to put itself in a position to fight the force of the Anti-Christ who will oppose the return of the messiah.

Remember, these wingers are extremists, and their "support" for Israel is not a good thing, but a very dangerous one.

About the citizenship, let's just stipulate that the naturalization site is the definitive source.

[cali]

22. It's certainly true that right wing religious fundamentalists

are extremists. Where we part company, I suspect, is on how much of a threat they pose. The kind of Millenarianism they espouse, has been around for a very long time, though the focus on Israel is, naturally, fairly recent. The right wing fundies are suffering a loss of influence and credibility. Sorry, I don't see them as the huge threat you do. Good to keep them on the radar screen and try to reduce the influence they have, I'm far more worried about other things.

And this is an area I know a lot about- I should. I have a MA is Millennial Studies.

[LeftishBrit]

17. In that case...

the fundie nuts are not pro-Israel; they are using Israel as a prop in their apocalyptic fantasies.

They are as much a danger to Israel as to anywhere!

[MrScorpio]

20. My point exactly

Thanks

[JohnyCanuck]

24. Google the following: "Israeli spy ring" n/t

[Rosa Luxemburg]

26. Re-phrase that, the US is part of the UK?

LOL! I guess George Bush is related to the royal family?

[MrScorpio]

27. You guessed correctly

http://www.illuminati-news.com/impressive-lineage.htm

[Rosa Luxemburg]

28. King Edward 1, oh no! I think we may be related

darn!

[Bonobo]

15. Wow, brilliant post. Israel is NOT part of the US? Wow! Thank God for DU!

[Freddie Stubbs]

18. We are fundamentally committed to the security of our ally Israel.

Our special relationship with Israel is based on the unshakable foundation of shared values and a mutual
commitment to democracy, and we will ensure that under all circumstances, Israel retains the qualitative
edge for its national security and its right to self-defense.

[MrScorpio]

21. Yes, that's the stated policy

But, I bet you won't find anything in it about defending Israel against the forces of the Anti-Christ.

I don't think that we've gone that far over the edge yet.

[The Stranger]

23. Like any other nation, Israel has its own national interest.

Israel's national interest -- like that of all other nations -- is not the same as that of the United States. At times, various countries' national interests will be in accord. And, at other times, they will be in discord. Each nation is expected to act in its own national interest.

That is the point. It is important to get past the "special relationship" verbiage to an actual analysis dealing with geopolitical and national interests, where people are required to use their brains and deal with reality.

[MrScorpio]

25. I know that I untentionally gave the impression that I was criticizing Israel

I just want to point out that this was not the case. My problem was was with the wingers.


If I were to criticize the State of Israel in any way, it would be as part of the blanket condemnation I have for any country that has committed injustice in the name of national security.

Plenty of blame to go around on that puppy.