Remember, Remember the fifth of November....

[debbierlus]

Remember remember the fifth of November
Gunpowder, treason and plot.
I see no reason why gunpowder, treason
Should ever be forgot...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=chqi8m4CEEY

Good evening, London. Allow me first to apologize for this interruption. I do, like many of you, appreciate the comforts of every day routine- the security of the familiar, the tranquility of repetition. I enjoy them as much as any bloke. But in the spirit of commemoration, thereby those important events of the past usually associated with someone's death or the end of some awful bloody struggle, a celebration of a nice holiday, I thought we could mark this November the 5th, a day that is sadly no longer remembered, by taking some time out of our daily lives to sit down and have a little chat. There are of course those who do not want us to speak. I suspect even now, orders are being shouted into telephones, and men with guns will soon be on their way. Why? Because while the truncheon may be used in lieu of conversation, words will always retain their power. Words offer the means to meaning, and for those who will listen, the enunciation of truth. And the truth is, there is something terribly wrong with this country, isn't there? Cruelty and injustice, intolerance and oppression. And where once you had the freedom to object, to think and speak as you saw fit, you now have censors and systems of surveillance coercing your conformity and soliciting your submission. How did this happen? Who's to blame? Well certainly there are those more responsible than others, and they will be held accountable, but again truth be told, if you're looking for the guilty, you need only look into a mirror. I know why you did it. I know you were afraid. Who wouldn't be? War, terror, disease. There were a myriad of problems which conspired to corrupt your reason and rob you of your common sense. Fear got the best of you, and in your panic you turned to the now high chancellor, Adam Sutler. He promised you order, he promised you peace, and all he demanded in return was your silent, obedient consent. Last night I sought to end that silence. Last night I destroyed the Old Bailey, to remind this country of what it has forgotten. More than four hundred years ago a great citizen wished to embed the fifth of November forever in our memory. His hope was to remind the world that fairness, justice, and freedom are more than words, they are perspectives. So if you've seen nothing, if the crimes of this government remain unknown to you then I would suggest you allow the fifth of November to pass unmarked. But if you see what I see, if you feel as I feel, and if you would seek as I seek, then I ask you to stand beside me one year from tonight, outside the gates of Parliament, and together we shall give them a fifth of November that shall never, ever be forgot.


Dennis Kucinich impeachment call tonight

http://www.dennis4president.com/go/homepage-items/live-call%11in-monday/

[tekisui]

1. I'll be there.

thanks.

[Rex]

2. A country that is willing to forgive over obvious treason

is one dangerous country.

[debbierlus]

3. Our country won't even acknowledge it

[NightWatcher]

4. ron paul has embraced this day/movement. is he gonna start blowing shit up?

oh wait, he just wants to raise money so that he can play too. How revolutionary- NOT

[earth mom]

5. K & R. nt

[debbierlus]

6. I almost forgot....

How quickly we forget.

[Truth2Tell]

7. Rec, and thanks for the reminder

And the truth is, there is something terribly wrong with this country, isn't there? Cruelty and injustice, intolerance and oppression. And where once you had the freedom to object, to think and speak as you saw fit, you now have censors and systems of surveillance coercing your conformity and soliciting your submission.

Straight up.

[SlowDownFast]

8. And on a side note:

the NSA/FBI will be making a record of every telephone number.

:scared:

[rosesaylavee]

9. Big Kick and Rec n/t

[cascadiance]

10. Yes! Yes! Remember November! Might be the last time we say that peacefully!

If some of the theories of martial law, etc. pan out and perhaps some real life events parallel what happened in the movie/books.

For Kucinich now, IT'S TIME!

[DrBlix]

13. Remember, remember the fifth of November

"There is something terribly wrong with this country isn't there".
.
People shouldn't be afraid of the government, the government should be afraid of the people.
.

[bdamomma]

19. it is all in this statement.

People shouldn't be afraid of the government, the government should be afraid of the people.


when will we realize our own power that was given to us??

[debbierlus]

17. Let's hope martial law doesn't come next election -

:hide:

[hfojvt]

11. I had written down the V speech, and now cannot find the middle

In View a Vaudevillian Veteran cast Vicariously as both Victim and Villain by the Vicissitude of fate, this Visage no mere Veneer of Vanity is a Vestige of the Vox populi, now Vacant, Vanished. However this Valorous Visitation of a bygone Vexation stands Vivified and has Vowed to Vanquish ...

[tekisui]

12. At 7:30pm EST----this conference call if FULL.

I don't get to listen in.
:-(

[debbierlus]

15. I couldn't get in either, but I am sure we will get reports

Just be sure to call your Congressperson & tell them to support it.

[leftchick]

14. V!

:applause:

[texpatriot2004]

16. V...for Vendetta! I remember. I will never forget. nm

[mourningdove92]

18. Thanks for posting this.

I had forgotten how powerful those words were.

[Prophet 451]

20. Please stop lauding a terrorist

I'm a Brit. The rhyme you quoted is originally ours. I'm aware that most Americans only know it through V For Vendetta but I think you miss the point both of the rhyme and of Alan Moore's book.

Guy (more properly, Guido) Fawkes was not a hero. Yes, he attempted to blow up the Houses of Parliament (an attack not just on politicians or monarchy but symbolically, on the rule of law itself) but he didn't do so because he was a freedom fighter, disgusted with the monarchy. He did so because he was a religious fanatic who wanted to put a Catholic on the throne and institute a Catholic theocracy. Likewise, V is not a hero. He is a homicidal terrorist. The point of Moore's book was the conflict between anarchy (represented by V) and order (represented by Norsefire) and the suggestion that either one, allowed to run to extremes, leads to suffering. The opression of Norsefire gave rise to V, just as the oppression of James I gave rise to Fawkes and his fellow conspirators. In both cases, oppression gave rise to someone who was, arguably, worse than the oppressors. Moore has stated himself that V was never meant to be a hero, he was meant to be an ambiguous figure presenting the logical counterpoint to teh fascism of Norsefire: "...the central question is, is this guy right? Or is he mad? What do you, the reader, think about this?".

I understand why Americans tend to miss the point of this. Being Americans, you have little idea of why Guy Fawkes is so hated here or why V's choice of him as a hero would say so much about V as a person but Moore is British. He grew up, just as I did, with the knowledge of who Fawkes was and what he attempted to do.

[cascadiance]

21. Yup, we wouldn't want an excuse to celebrate the Boston Tea Party terrorists either!...

http://www.sodabob.com/DeepThoughts/DT_2002_10_09.asp

[Prophet 451]

26. They weren't religious fanatics trying to instate a theocracy n/t

[shadowknows69]

22. That's basically what I got out of it Prophet

I never once though V was a heroic figure. This story is a tragedy all the way around. The only hope coming at the very end when BOTH extremes of the equation are dead.

[Prophet 451]

27. Evey

Evey is the hope for the future because she's walked in both worlds, she can avoid the extremes of either. In the book, it's suggested that even V realises that as he sets out with the full knowledge that he is embarking on a suicide run, leaving Evey to pick up where he left off. "All I have left is the vendetta" but Evey has more than that, she can be more compassionate than V was ever able to be.

[ProdigalJunkMail]

23. A penny for the Guy... n/t

[truebrit71]

24. Thank you for saying that..it has bothered me for sometime that folks here seem to miss the point...

...Guy Fawkes was a BAD guy...not a patriot or a hero, but a terrorist...

[ProdigalJunkMail]

25. and a religious terrorist, to boot

all it takes is one little movie and BOOM, everyone thinks they are an expert on Guy Fawkes...

There was a great reading yesterday morning on BBC Radio Four from the book An Utterly Impartial History of Britain: (or 2000 Years of Upper Class Idiots In Charge)...put quit the spin on the Act...

sP

[Prophet 451]

32. Missed that

I'll have to get hold of teh book, sounds good.

[ProdigalJunkMail]

36. BBC website has a podcast of it if you like

was a relatively short segment, but quite funny...

http://www.bbc.co.uk/radio4/arts/book_week.shtml ... Monday was the day I was able to listen...

sP

[Prophet 451]

39. Great stuff, thanks n/t

[redqueen]

28. So... you still celebrate a holiday honoring him... WHY?

:crazy:

[Prophet 451]

29. We're not, we're celebrating the fact that he FAILED

Like I say, unless you grew up in Britain, the meaning of this is probably lost on you but We are celebrating the fact that Fawkes was foiled and captured. The attack on the rule of law (and the monarchy) failed, the kingdom was preserved. That's why he became so hated that we burn effigies of him each year.

Fawkes's attempt, if successful, would have put a Catholic fanatic on the throne and in doing so, lead to civil war. After the first civil war, the Papist Plot (either one), the Reformation, the Counter-Reformation and the Irish Troubles, we've had quite enough of religious fanatics, thanks.

[redqueen]

30. Aha!

Thanks... I was slightly confused there for a minute.

Calling it "guy fawkes" day seems a tad confusing...

[Prophet 451]

31. Yeah well, that's the British for you

This is a country so given to euphemism that we refer to the ongoing mess in Northern Ireland as "The Troubles".

Besides, it was originally known (and still is in some areas) as "Bonfire Night", from the fires which the effigy of Fawkes was burned on. At some point, someone wrote a song called "Guy Fawkes Night" (lyrics below) which somehow became the name of the holiday itself.

Remember, remember the Fifth of November,
The Gunpowder Treason and Plot,
I know of no reason
Why Gunpowder Treason
Should ever be forgot.
Guy Fawkes, Guy Fawkes, t'was his intent
To blow up King and Parli'ment.
Three-score barrels of powder below
To prove old England's overthrow;
By God's providence he was catch'd
With a dark lantern and burning match.
Holloa boys, holloa boys, let the bells ring.
Holloa boys, holloa boys, God save the King! "

[redqueen]

33. Hah, good point.

Olbermann insinuated on a recent program that Fawkes' little adventure was another example of a near-LIHOP.

Interesting...

[Prophet 451]

34. Others have suggested that too

The fact that Fawkes was caught in the cellars of Parliament, pretty much with the match in his hand, has led a fair few observers to suspect that something dodgy was going on. LIHOP is one theory but a couple of the others are that Fawkes fellow conspirators hung him out to dry or that the whole thing was cooked up by James I to shore up his reign (he was already rather unpopular) and stir up anti-Catholic feeling. Personally, I doubt James was bright enough for that.

[BornagainDUer]

35. Man that is some very coooool stuff. K&R

[bridgit]

37. "Remember, Remember the fifth of November", check!

[upi402]

38. V

:wow: