On the road to fascism

[nadinbrzezinski]

so today both Malloy and Randi reported that the borders will be sealed by February by DHS.

That folks is one of the last steps in closing down a society.

Democracies die in applause, like today's at the heritage foundation.

I know many folks here are still in denial... but we are so close to the End of America (my apologies Naomi) that it ain't even funny

The steps are there, the evidence is all over the place

But, but ... you can still post and nobody has gone misiing... (yeah right, unless you count the thousands of Resident Aliens that went missing after 9.11 or two men, Padilla and Hamdi... oh never mind)

And nobody is listening to your calls... I'll take that bet

And you don't have an FBI file... let me laugh... I know I have it for two major reasons... and they have added to it... I am sure. But if you choose to take that bet, sure I can use the money.

Now here is the important point.

I hate to be bearer of bad news... but all this election frenzy... does not matter. In a fascist shift you either have "elections" where the chosen ones succeed each other, or you don't

But if any of you believes this election is going to be clean... I will offer the US Constitution, or what remains of it... as collateral.

Soon those of you who have been laughing at this concept that this country (it's ideals) have died... well I know the reality.

Yes I will vote, but damn it I know it will not count. My hope is that as the windows close enough of you will wake up... and push back. If we don't, collectively... it's over... and I for one, will do all I can to survive the coming night, but don't count on it.

[The Velveteen Ocelot]

1. "So this is how liberty dies, with thunderous applause."

The line that came to mind as I watched the clip of Bush speaking to the Heritage Foundation. He'd say the most outrageous, fascist things, and they cheered and applauded. Horrifying.

[nadinbrzezinski]

2. Yeah that line came as well

Good lord, it was good I had parked. Malloy was right, that was out of any Nazi parade, or any other Authoritarian party applauding dear leader

[The Velveteen Ocelot]

3. You might say it sounded better in the original German...

[nadinbrzezinski]

4. I can already hear some folks round these parts

accusing both of us of Goodwin's law...

So be it

:-)

How bout Korean? Spanish? Italian? I definiltely like Russian.

[AndyTiedye]

12. Godwin's Law Was Mooted by the Patriot Act

[nadinbrzezinski]

13. Good point, after all it was heavily modeled on the Enabling Act

whoever has drawn out the plan is a student of history... and it ain't george.

[femrap]

105. Rove is the student of history....

I bet he sleeps w/ Mein Kauf (sp?) under his pillow.

The only hope I have is that only 24% of Americans approve of this chimp....I assume Hitler had a much higher approval. But with all of the 'bread and circuses' and the loss of our media, I wonder if the American people will ever do anything.

I fear a false flag before 1/20/09.

[nadinbrzezinski]

109. Hitler's aproval hoverined in the low thirties iirc

but just like this idiot, it's been very legal

[marmar]

5. "but all this election frenzy... does not matter"

I agree completely. That's why the election isn't even registering with me. There are more immediate and dire concerns.

[nadinbrzezinski]

6. There are but the problem is that many folks are still in deep denial

and our Congress is as disfunctional as any other legistative body at this stage of the shift

[nadinbrzezinski]

7. kick

[seemslikeadream]

8. Ein Volk, Ein Reich, Ein Furher, Ein Volk,

One Hope, One people, One country, One leader.
One Hope, One people, One country, One destiny.

Stand up be brave my people we're here to stay, for a thousand years.
An oath you've spoken, can never be broken, you'll pay, in blood and tears
Never tire, never doubt, never falter, never slacken, Just believe in me.
Stand up, shout loud, stand proud, in what we will we will achieve.

One Hope, One people, One country, One leader will set you free
One Hope, One people, One country, One destiny for a thousand years

Ein Volk, Ein Reich, Ein Furher, Ein Volk,
Ein Volk, Ein Reich, Ein Furher, Ein Volk,
Ein Volk, Ein Reich, Ein Furher, Ein Volk,
Ein Volk, Ein Reich, Ein Furher, Ein Volk.

It's not enough just to say you love your country, its not enough.
It's not enough to get down on your knees and pray, it's just not enough.

The price is high, the price you have to pay is your freedom, surrender yourselves.
Mothers send me your blue-eyed blonde-haired boys and let me see them, blue-eyed blonde-haired boys.

One Hope, One people, One country, One leader will set you free.
One Hope, One people, One country, One destiny for a thousand years.

Ein Volk, Ein Reich, Ein Furher, Ein Volk,
Ein Volk, Ein Reich, Ein Furher, Ein Volk,
Ein Volk, Ein Reich, Ein Furher, Ein Volk,
Ein Volk, Ein Reich, Ein Furher, Ein Volk,
Ein Volk, Ein Reich, Ein Furher, Ein Volk,
Ein Volk, Ein Reich, Ein Furher, Ein Volk,
Ein Volk, Ein Reich, Ein Furher, Ein Volk,
Ein Volk, Ein Reich, Ein Furher, Ein Volk.

One Hope, One people, One country, One leader will set you free
One Hope, One people, One country, One destiny for a thousand years

[nadinbrzezinski]

10. It's almost hipnotic, isn't it?

And in reality there is no equivalent in English

[The Velveteen Ocelot]

18. ...

[ixion]

9. yeah, I'm not counting on it, either

History is not on our side in this regard, and the masses seem to be falling right in line with history.

[nadinbrzezinski]

11. Well this is the end of a thirty year process to dumb down the masses

what can I say? MISSION ACCOMPLISHED!!!!!!

[BeHereNow]

19. Actually darling, it goes back further than that.

Things REALLY started to cook with the formation
of the Trilateral Commission and the Council on Foreign Relations.
And yes, I hear you clearly.
It's a done deal while the masses sleep on.

Good luck to us all, but especially the ones like you
and the others on DU who have been shouting it from the
roof tops here for years.

BHN:grouphug:

[seemslikeadream]

14. “Nemesis: The Last Days of the American Republic.”

She's present in our country right now, just waiting to make her - to carry out her divine mission




http://www.democracynow.org/article.pl?sid=07/02/27/1454229

CHALMERS JOHNSON: Nemesis was the ancient Greek goddess of revenge, the punisher of hubris and arrogance in human beings. You may recall she is the one that led Narcissus to the pond and showed him his reflection, and he dove in and drowned. I chose the title, because it seems to me that she's present in our country right now, just waiting to make her -- to carry out her divine mission.

By the subtitle, I really do mean it. This is not just hype to sell books -- “The Last Days of the American Republic.” I’m here concerned with a very real, concrete problem in political analysis, namely that the political system of the United States today, history tells us, is one of the most unstable combinations there is -- that is, domestic democracy and foreign empire -- that the choices are stark. A nation can be one or the other, a democracy or an imperialist, but it can't be both. If it sticks to imperialism, it will, like the old Roman Republic, on which so much of our system was modeled, like the old Roman Republic, it will lose its democracy to a domestic dictatorship.

I’ve spent some time in the book talking about an alternative, namely that of the British Empire after World War II, in which it made the decision, not perfectly executed by any manner of means, but nonetheless made the decision to give up its empire in order to keep its democracy. It became apparent to the British quite late in the game that they could keep the jewel in their crown, India, only at the expense of administrative massacres, of which they had carried them out often in India. In the wake of the war against Nazism, which had just ended, it became, I think, obvious to the British that in order to retain their empire, they would have to become a tyranny, and they, therefore, I believe, properly chose, admirably chose to give up their empire.

As I say, they didn't do it perfectly. There were tremendous atavistic fallbacks in the 1950s in the Anglo, French, Israeli attack on Egypt; in the repression of the Kikuyu -- savage repression, really -- in Kenya; and then, of course, the most obvious and weird atavism of them all, Tony Blair and his enthusiasm for renewed British imperialism in Iraq. But nonetheless, it seems to me that the history of Britain is clear that it gave up its empire in order to remain a democracy. I believe this is something we should be discussing very hard in the United States.

......



Over the ashes of blood marched the civilized soldiers,

Over the ruins of the french fortress of a failure

Over the silent screams of the dead and the dying

Saying please be reassured, we seek no wider war.



The treaties were signed, the country was split into sections

But growing numbers of prisons were built for protection

Rapidly filling with people who called for elections

But please be reassured, we seek no wider war.



Ngo dinh diem was the puppet who danced for the power

The hero of hate who gambled on hell for his hour

Father of his country was stamped on the medals we showered

But please be reassured, we seek no wider war.



Machine gun bullets became the bloody baptizers

And the falcon copters dont care if someones the wiser

But the boy in the swamp didnt know he was killed by advisers

So please be reassured, we seek no wider war.



And fires were spitting at forests in defoliation

While the people were pressed into camps not called concentration

And the greater the victory the greater the shame of the nation

But please be reassured, we seek no wider war.



While we were watching the prisoners were tested by torture

And vicious and violent gasses maintained the order

As the finest washington minds found slogans for slaughter

But please be reassured, we seek no wider war.



Then over the border came the bay of pigs planes of persuasion

All remaining honor went up in flames of invasion

But the shattered schools never learned that its not escalation

But please be reassured, we seek no wider war.



Were teaching freedom for which they are yearning

While were dragging them down to the path of never returning

But, well condescend to talk while the cities are burning

But please be reassured, we seek no wider war.



And the evil is done in hopes that evil surrenders

But the deeds of the devil are burned too deep in the embers

And a world of hunger in vengeance will always remember

So please be reassured, we seek no wider war,

We seek no wider war.

phil ochs

[nadinbrzezinski]

16. The empire will retrench, for economic reasons mostly

and it will not be pretty

But the repubic... it's been dead for a while

I can reach for the paddles and the Epinephrine... but I fear I should reach for the death certificate.

[mmonk]

102. I remember his warning to get a property outside the US

when he wrote Sorrows of Empire. I didn't do it though I thought about it. I have his book Nemesis as well (along with others ringing the same bells). But I still desperately hold on. But not forever.

[mark414]

15. why would anyone amass this much power and then willingly give it up?

[nadinbrzezinski]

17. BINGO!!!!!!!!!!

You get it.

:applause: :applause: :applause: :applause:

[BeHereNow]

20. Precisely... and that is the point.

:thumbsup: :thumbsup: :thumbsup: :thumbsup: :thumbsup: :thumbsup:
You clearly understand the severity of our collective situation.
SO many on DU have yet to "get it."

BHN

[warren pease]

49. Exactly!...

The infrastructure to convert this country from a democratic republic to a national security state is already in place; the various elements just haven't been fully implemented yet.

When you consider the cumulative effects of the patriot acts, the military commissions act, and then add in the toxicity of this "continuity of government" charade called presidential directives NSPD-51/HSPD-20, along with an executive order authorizing asset seizure for individuals involved in the anti-Iraq occupation movement, and yet another authorizing asset seizure for disagreeing with BushCo's position on Syrian and Lebanese acts of "terrorism," so that:

"...all property and interests in property that are in the United States, that hereafter come within the United States, or that are or hereafter come within the possession or control of any United States person, including any overseas branch, of the following persons are blocked and may not be transferred, paid, exported, withdrawn, or otherwise dealt in: persons determined by the Secretary of the Treasury, after consultation with the Secretary of State and the Secretary of Defense..."

...when you add all these up, what rational person can ignore what's clearly spelled out between the lines: BushCo has no intention of going anywhere just because that pesky Constitution says so, and that it will punish opposition by impoverishing dissidents on the thinnest of pretexts.

I can think of only two reasons to issue such orders and directives:

1) As a necessary response to the societal dislocation and chaos resulting from an emergency severe enough and/or widespread enough to justify a massive, coordinated effort to restore normality through the most efficient use of any and all available federal resources. As an element of such a federal response, martial law is just another useful tool to help the feds restore order as quickly as possible. Martial law would only be invoked if absolutely necessary, on a limited geographic basis, with every concern and respect for individual and societal rights and liberties, and for not a second longer than necessary to achieve a full return to the rule of Constitutional government.

or...

2) The 22nd Amendment says BushCo has to leave the White House in January, 2009 and, having fought for at least half a century to put the executive branch in the hands of pure malevolent fascists and world-class thieves whose only agenda is further enrichment of themselves and their corporate cronies through initiatives like insane levels of war spending and privatization of absolutely everything not already controlled by our multinational lords and masters, the extreme right wing has absolutely no intention of screwing up a good thing by complying with the law.

Realistically, which of these options sounds more like standard BushCo behavior? And there's your answer.


wp

[AikidoSoul]

100. What's to stop Bush and Cheney from canceling the elections?

The previous few posts speculate that these men will not let go of power and I think that's true.

What I worry about most is the possibility that BushCo will purposefully create a major disaster in this country that provides them an excuse for declaring Martial Law along with brutal fascist control of the citizenry. Canceled elections would be an easy next step.

Another natural move would be witchunts for "terrorists" (read dissenters) among our own citizens. I fear that TIPS will be in full force with everyone encouraged by the admin to report on our neighbors for any "suspicious" activity. I worry that sedition charges would be in the picture for anyone who speaks out against government policies, or who suspects aloud that BushCo is doing all this to get iron control of all facets of our country.

No amount of power is enough for these people.

I'm not the only one who thinks they are capable of anything to remain in power. Current and past Bush administration players have been called "the crazies" for decades for good reason.

It's a scary time.

[warren pease]

104. Absolutely nothing...

Absent a true opposition party with the outrage and cohesiveness necessary to challenge these madmen, there's really no way to beat these bastards. Well, there may be one way, but it can't be discussed here.

I don't know if you followed those links in my previous post, but there's the road map all laid out for anyone who wishes to connect the dots. NSPD 51 and HSPD-20 specifically provide the framework and excuses for invoking martial law to deal with a "state of emergency." Also note that Bush is to be the sole guarantor of the continuance of Constitutional law under these conditions, and that he’s the only one who gets to define what constitutes grounds for declaring a state of emergency.

And once martial law is declared, you bet your ass that the 2008 elections will be either canceled or rigged so thoroughly that it will be literally impossible for anyone to the left of Tom Delay to be declared the winner.

A couple of the more vile provisions of NSPD 51 and HSPD-20:

(b) "Catastrophic Emergency" means any incident, regardless of location, that results in extraordinary levels of mass casualties, damage, or disruption severely affecting the U.S. population, infrastructure, environment, economy, or government functions;“ (Translation: Katrina II, a California quake, a flood in the Midwest, a massive power outage, an uprising, etc. Use your imagination.)

(18) "The Secretary of Defense, in coordination with the Secretary of Homeland Security, shall provide secure, integrated, Continuity of Government communications to the President, the Vice President, and, at a minimum, Category I executive departments and agencies.” (Translation: The shadow government stays in the loop. Also note that congress isn't mentioned.)

(6) "The President shall lead the activities of the Federal Government for ensuring constitutional government.” (Translation: The Fourth Reich will be fronted by a simpleton and run by a sociopath.)

As to those two executive orders I cited... well, let's just say that I worry less about being rounded up than about being officially impoverished by government fiat. Honestly, if they don't know who I am by now, they either suck at their jobs or they just don't care. How hard is it to get beyond the aliases and correlate my real IP address with my various email accounts and login scripts for places like DU? So I figure that either they don't care because I'm such a minor irritant or that they've got all the bases covered and can take their sweet time about it.

Those two EOs regarding asset seizure are the template to incapacitate the opposition without even having to bother with internment camps and all the rest of that expensive security state nonsense. And you'll notice these malevolent little acts criminalize any efforts to assist those who've had their assets stolen by the feds, so there's no help legally available from anyone -- family, friends, relatives... even a soup kitchen, I suppose. I assume that even a lawyer who would work for free to try and get your life back could be charged with aiding and comforting the enemy.

Perhaps most insidious of all, they don't have to tell you what they're up to. So you might find out they've stolen all your stuff when you go to the ATM and discover that your card isn't working, or that your account(s) are empty. Or maybe when the sheriff shows up at your door to steal your house and car and any loose change lying around.

People like Cali will scoff and tell us that there's nothing to worry about, we're far from becoming a fascist, national security state and that all this silly talk is just paranoid conspiracy nuts blowing off steam. Nadin, however, and quite a few others have connected all the dots -- all the way back through the history of totalitarianism to the stolen elections and 9/11 and the bogus war on terror -- and we've all managed to conclude that they lead in only one clear direction.

Just because they're not wearing uniforms bearing swastikas and goose-stepping down the Unter den Linden; just because Leni Riefenstahl isn't filming the sequel to "Triumph of the Will" and boxcars are still carrying freight; just because oppression is still partly concealed under an eroding veneer of liberty while most people steadfastly refuse to pay any fucking attention... Just because the jackboot has yet to kick in my door, I'm not naive enough to believe that it can't happen here.

As noted above, all the systems, infrastructure, legal framework and enforcement mechanisms are in place to lock down this country like a time vault. They just haven't gone fully operational yet.


Sleep well,

wp

[BeHereNow]

21. Add the TSA request that travelers be required to have 72 hour advance permission

from the "guber-mint" to fly...even here, domestically.

Soon, they will set up the checkpoints between state lines-
a passport and national ID card will be required to travel
interstates between states, DOMESTICALLY.
Essentially, that is what they have done with flying.
Road trips are next.
I'll put money on it.
Takers?

BHN

[nadinbrzezinski]

25. If you know the mechanics it is easy to predict

that said... Poland never had effective internal controls and given how the economy depends on internal travel

They will not be able to afford to... unless the goal is to accelerate the destruction of the middle class... ala East Germany were internal controls were very effective, or the USSR... where party members were able to travel, but that's it...

[Sugar Smack]

22. Please tell me what that means.

I'm truly frightened. Borders sealed? What does that really mean?

[nadinbrzezinski]

23. That means that you will have to ask permission to enter or leave

the united states.

Border controls are nasty...

Think USSR... since that is the best known example in the US

[Sugar Smack]

24. Thank you, Nadin.

God.

[nadinbrzezinski]

26. Time is short

and it is time to take to the streets and contact congress critters and HAVE A PLAN

If we fail to roll them back, it will be time to hunker down and think PERSONAL survival

[143tbone]

90. And it also means that if you have been

arrested, say for civil disobedience, that you might not be allowed to leave or enter, whatever the case might be.

[nadinbrzezinski]

27. Oh and I forgot, but I can predict currency controls in a not so far future

[nashville_brook]

28. what's the context of the border closings? anyone know?

i've been noticing how travel restrictions have grown to a point to be a real problem for vacation travel, and have been wondering what the next step would be (beyond 72-hour approval for domestic air travel). what's the stated excuse/reason for closing the borders? what was the context that this was being discussed?


great post, nb.

[nadinbrzezinski]

29. Well I made a reference to what they discussed

but usually the context in any of these things any time it occurs is to prevent brain drain... and to keep people from defecting.

After all, if you keep them inside they can't go out and talk about the horrors in the homeland.

The excuse probably is the usual... keep the brown ones out and national security

I will go and look for the actual articles... was watching Oberman, which I suspect will go off the air soon if we are unable to push back

[nashville_brook]

34. wonder if i can paddle my kayak to a small carribean island...

who needs a border when you've got ocean?

kidding of course. geez, this is depressing.

[nadinbrzezinski]

35. Well this is the time to act

start by talking to neighbors, and trying to force our disfuncitonal legisltature to act

Hell, I will get a second copy of Naomi Wolf's book and drop it to my congress critter

Perhaps that will wake HER up

[nadinbrzezinski]

30. and here is one of the articles on this

http://www.management.travel/news.php?cid=TSA-Secure-Flight.Oct-07.11

me suggested the program violates constitutional rights to privacy and expressed opposition to what they perceived as a requirement to ask the federal government for the permission to travel. Others questioned if airlines and travel agents would have sufficient time to adjust their business processes.

[magellan]

31. Every time I start to feel alone on DU

...a brilliant post like this pops up.

Thank you, Nadin.

The masses aren't going to wake up in time. It's going to be bloody awful, and I've too much life left and too big a mouth to avoid a front row seat. The only thing for it is to enjoy every moment and the company of every loved one while we can.

[nadinbrzezinski]

33. When the time comes, enjoy your family

and will be time to close our mouths and hide a copy or two of the Constitution... perhaps someday we will be able to bring some of that back

God, starting to sound like my mom

...and my dad... who went through that mess called WW II... and to this day he refuses to speak about it.

But it will reach a point when we all will quietly hunker down and prepare to survive... for as you said... people are still too sleepy to realize what is going on...

And we have time... but that is closing...

[bbgrunt]

32. k and r kand r k and r

[Hieronymus]

36. Do you know where Malloy and Randi got that information?

[nadinbrzezinski]

37. The paper, I posted one article

Here from that article

TSA said the 72-hour requirement would provide enough time to "prioritize the domestic and international watch-list matching workload," resolve as many "false positives" as possible before those individuals arrive at the airport and allow airlines "to begin issuing boarding passes to passengers 24 hours prior to departure." For reservations and ticket changes within 72 hours, TSA would require airlines to transmit information "immediately."
TSA said passenger data "in general" would be compared to the federal government's consolidated terrorist watch list, but in certain circumstances, it would also use "other government databases, such as intelligence or law enforcement databases." The agency proposed to retain passenger data records "for a short period of time," with "the vast majority ... destroyed within seven days of completion of directional travel."

http://www.management.travel/news.php?cid=TSA-Secure-Flight.Oct-07.11

You can also try her site, she posts links to her articles

[Hieronymus]

38. Thanks..

[defendandprotect]

39. Kucinich -- and return to paper ballots -- Hello, Pelosi!!!!

[nadinbrzezinski]

40. Clean and transparent elections would be needed

I ain't counting on that

[defendandprotect]

41. GAO Confrimed Key 2004 Stolen Election Findings ---- We're nuts!!!!

http://www.freepress.org/departments/display/19/2005/1529No
Election 2004
Powerful Government Accounting
Office Report Confirms Key 2004 Stolen Election Findings


Pelosi had time to do something for the 2008 elections ---
Nothing changed --- !!!

Kucinich has legislation for paper ballots and hand counting ---

The computer scam has been going on since the late 1960's as they moved computers in everywhere !!!!

Look back and think about the likelihood that Americans have been voting for fascists -- !!!

[nadinbrzezinski]

42. Well unclean elections are a trademark of totalitarian systems

next thing we know will be the mandate for citizens to vote...

[TheCentepedeShoes]

43. kicking for the early birds n/t

[cigsandcoffee]

44. Fascism erects walls to keep people in, not out.

All of this Chicken Little fascism stuff is becoming tedious. Bush sucks, but he's not Adolf Hitler.

[Warren Stupidity]

50. Indeed, this is not your grandfather's fascism.

Your thought processes regarding fascism are stuck in an endless newsclip of 1930's era strutting and saluting goose stepping Great Dictator fascism.

That would be Classic Fascism.

The corporate kleptocracy has gone and manufactured a new modern 21st Century Fascism. It has more individual freedom, mostly in the form of freedomto choose Starbucks or Dunkin Donuts, it has elections of sorts, it has controlled and contrived dissent and nominal opposition parties. It has a propanda/brainwashing system that is the direct descendent of the mongrelized marriage of goebels and madison avenue. It has total surveillence that their predecessors could only dream of. It has military capacities that exceed any meglomaniac's dreams - they own the world and no conventional forces exist to oppose their rule. They've won and you are smugly posting your snarks, all of which are being automatically sucked up into their vast databases. They track your phone, your car, your cash card, you are under the eye of a camera almost everywhere in urban america. But please don't worry too much about closing down the borders, after all those fences and roads and guards and electronics can only keep people out, never in.

[tom_paine]

61. Why do you bother, Warren? It is no use and a waste of precious time to try.

Use the ignore on them, my friend. Just use the ignore.

[nadinbrzezinski]

65. Some folks have the incredible need to keep

that cover over their eyes

[Warren Stupidity]

89. Oh it is for the other readers.

I realize that the poster I responded to has no interest in understanding our view of the current political reality. I respond generally for those who are unsure about what that reality is and are still open to persuasion. The more this idea permeates the net, the more we can reframe the perception of what this system is, the better are our chances are for developing an effective opposition.

Sometimes I deliberately piss into the wind.

[stimbox]

96. It's Friendly Fascism

It's all outlined in this book.

http://www.thirdworldtraveler.com/Fascism/Friendly_Fascism_BGross.html

[cali]

70. The thing is, some of these folks are so heavily invested

in secular apocalyptism and the dystopian narrative, that they can respond only by telling you that you're simply a "good german" or don't get it. They refuse to understand that some of are doing every bit as much as they are to fight the elements that pose a danger to us.

The attitude of relentless superiority, of being in the vanguard, is typical of people who have this particular psychological makeup.

While I don't have much use for the dramatics they're into, the fact is that there are real dangers, and that we need to deal with them.

[cali]

45. *sigh*

"so today both Malloy and Randi reported that the borders will be sealed by February by DHS." What does that even mean?

Your absolutism, is what I find most troubling.

You say: "well I know the reality." That's opinion. Your OP is riddled with opinion masquerading as fact.

I appreciate that we're on a very perilous road, but this sort of secular apocalyptic dystopian fantasy, does not, I believe, do anything positive.

[ixion]

46. it's not a fantasy, it is a very well-documented historical reality.

and it's nay-sayers who continue to give credibility to those in power by denying the reality of what is happening. The path of tyranny is very well documented, and we are currently moving at break-neck speed down this path. That is an undeniable fact, not a fantasy.

[cali]

47. Look, I'm not saying that it isn't possible. I'm certainlyt not

saying that we shouldn't fight vigorously against every admin usurpation of power. I am saying that stating that it's already hopeless is counter-productive. First, it's not true, and secondly, why bother doing anything if it is. Furthermore ominous statements about how the border will be sealed by February, and Americans will be prevented from leaving the country so as not to tell the outside world what's going on, are simply fear mongering, and damned unlikely. Come February, people will still be travelling and crossing the borders. I'd bet anything on that.

[143tbone]

91. You can't really say it's not true

and the borders will be closed, at least in the beginning, to only certain people. What happened to Ann Wright and Medea?
I don't believe the neo-cons will care about the rest of the world knowing what is going on in this country. They will probably just want to keep certain activists from leaving the country, from leaving their realm of control. I'm surprised they haven't locked up Ann, Medea and Cindy already.
But they are barred from the Capitol now. Out of the country the activists can still have influence over what is taking place inside so the administration would want to keep people like Ann and Medea inside so they can maintain their control over them.

[nadinbrzezinski]

48. Remember, for people who deny this reality

it will not hit them until well after there is no way back

Right now we have a closing window

Here are some thigns that even they can do

Demand that Mukasey not be let out of Committee

Demand that Shwakowsky's idea of phasing out Mercs in the country be done. (That is a first important push back)

Alas we have little time

And many of these deniers will one day paraphrase a famous poem of WW II.

And if they need to ask who or what I am thinking about, then they have not done their historical readying

[northernsoul]

53. How is a prediction about next February "a very well-documented historical reality"?

I absolutely agree that our nation is headed down a very dark path, but I find the prediction that the borders will be sealed in few months to be little more than semi-paranoid speculation without some supporting evidence.

[nadinbrzezinski]

56. Google is your friend

or readying up thread

Administrative measures are a nice disquise to the true intent in any totalitarian state

[canadianbeaver]

57. Sigh.....I sigh every time you reply.......

but I will not put anyone on ignore....not even you.....

We will all be together in this when people like you start to believe whats staring them right in the eye....maybe the eyes need to be poked out before someone says wait a minute they were right...

Bye bye old America...it sure was a fun ride while it lasted eh?

This has repercussions for the world as a whole...those with the most power will watch the US very closely to see how they should proceed....yes Canada too...

edit: spelling...

[nadinbrzezinski]

58. I hope those of us who are willing to

stand up are enough to stop this... alas I fear we will not

[canadianbeaver]

59. I so hear you.......n/t

[cali]

63. please read the post I just wrote you.

As I said, I'm aware of where we are. And I certainly have the background in history to understand the possibilities. Not to mention that I've never looked at this country through rose colored glasses. I grew up with a brilliant anthropologis father, who had a rather dim view of the future of humankind.

[canadianbeaver]

80. It sounds like your father was a bit prophetic then eh?

I sure don't have to wear shades because this world is not so bright.....(the futures so bright I need to wear shades)...

Cali....we are in the same boat...just you are looking at it from one side that sees the bright horizon ...I am looking at the side that shows the hole in the boat...

[cali]

84. My father was scarily prescient

He was a TA for Margaret Mead, a good friend of Huxley's and Thomas Mann's though both were much older than he. In fact, the desk in his study was Mann's dining room table, a beautiful carved thing that he left to my dad. The predictions he made are pretty dead on. I can remember his saying in the seventies that the biggest problem we faced in this country was the growing gap between rich and poor. Around that time he also made some accurate predictions about the loss of community and the impact that would have.

Interesting guy, if rather dark. He once said that the best thing that could happen to humanity is if we bombed ourselves back into the stone age retaining a few cautionary myths and started over again.

And perhaps his dark vision, has inspired me to remember that the horizon exists as well as the hole in the boat.

[northernsoul]

51. Can you elaborate on the border-sealing rumor?

What evidence did Malloy and Randi adduce to support this prediction?

[nadinbrzezinski]

54. The articles are posted on the thread

but according to the articles you will need to provide TSA (or the airline that wil provide to TSA) personal info, such as passport number, credit card, adress et al... so it can be cross checked with the No Flight List.

That starts in february and it will make flying far more onnerous

And I hate to point this out but Naomi Wolf, Rhodes and malloy were right to point this as a sealing of borders

It is administrative, but you will not be able to fly without persmision any longer.

And it should alarm you... since it is not a rumor... google is your friend, or readying up thtread

[cali]

55. this is the equivalent of bush

yelling terra, terra, terra.

[canadianbeaver]

60. this is the equivalent of the masses

yelling "ok sir can I have another!!"

Oh...sometimes its like talking to a wall......NEVERMIND...its waisted.

[cali]

62. Look, I work hard opposing

bush and policies that can lead us to even greater disaster. But I come from a certain perspective, much influenced by Buddhist teachings. I believe you start where you are as Pema Chodron says, and that you don't spend a lot of time casting yourself into fruitless negativity. You feed it that way. It doesn't mean one is unaware, it simply means one doesn't indulge in it. And sorry, I see a lot of reveling in dystopia around here.

[canadianbeaver]

75. I totally understand the concept of positive energies.....

negative energies..and the idea of you give the negative power by the focus you give it...but there comes a time when one must make the choice to get a little dirty to be able to wash the filth off later...as you can't have the yin without the yang!!

it would be nice if this world was filled with positivity but the realities are much different aren't they?....

[cali]

81. I can't explain Buddhist tenets about these things

here. It's simply not possible. But what you wrote is opposed to the teachings I try and follow. Have you ever read any Pema Chodron or Choygam Trungpa? Start Where You Are, by the former, and The Myth of Freedom (yeah, I know that's ironic, considering the topic) by the latter are two good books that explain why not casting yourself into a dystopic future, is a more productive way to operate.

Again it's not about denying the negative, in fact Trungpa says negativity is very "juicy" and workable. But it is about staying in the present.

[canadianbeaver]

85. I truly can only say I believe in myself...and give no other

person/religion those profoundly personal thoughts/beliefs....they are mine alone....we start out alone in this world...we will leave it alone...

Now are we all connected? yes...I believe so....but each has a path that is quite personal and quite different from every single other person....its finding a way to make your way alongside everyone else making their way as well...and doing it in a way that keeps you true to yourself..

This world is too crazy to get too deep....I don't want to hide myself away on a mountain top searching...

contradictions within contradictions...I am a walking contradiction.....I am not perfect...but I am trying to be a good person..and its really hard to do that when other peoples paths have smashed head on into mine with no regard to my path and where I was going...

I think I have been turned into a rambling fool along the way!!

Cali...take care of yourself...your path is yours to travel...I am glad our paths have crossed each others..Peace!

[Name removed]

64. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[T.Ruth2power]

52. Nature of the

American beast. It's always been this way with the degree varying from era to era depending on certain socio-economic factors.

The illusion is gone, that's really the only difference. Now it's time to act.

Came across this on the web which is quite relevant:

In the real world, fascism is when the corporations and governments work as a single entity, and you can wander around with your fucking gun all you want. In fact, you'll have to wander around, because the government/corporations took your house and your car, and no one will hire you.

At which point you'll be arrested, not as some big anti-government hero by jackboot thugs, but for stealing bread to live on, by a perfectly normal cop who's just doing his job, a job that absolutely no one except you disagrees with, so when you shoot and kill him you're getting the electric chair and no one thinks you're a hero at all.

There are different types of totalitarian governments, and assuming a fascist one operates like a communist one is faulty. Fascist governments don't put troops in the streets...they work with corporations to make sure 'the wrong sort of people' do not have any economic power, and do not have anywhere to peddle their ideas.

Modern fascist states don't even bother to kill those people, and pretending they're going to show up in some stormtrooper outfit and start a gun battle with you is insane. They'll show up with a court order to evict you from your home because you failed to pay your mortgage, because pressure came from the top at your company to let you go. Or they'll just sue you and ruin your finances.

America is not a bunch of tiny castles where, as long as you can hold off the invading armies, you will be fine. The idea that that is how the world works is astonishingly naive. Almost all the population of America lives in housing they do not fully own, they get food from places they do not control like the supermarket, they require operating in society for money to obtain said food and shelter, a society where economics are controlled by some very large players that can crush them like bugs.

And a fascist state isn't going to 'assume control', you asshat. There's not going to some insane coup, there's a going to be a slow change, which has, in fact, already happened, or have you not looked at the telecom immunity stuff? That's classic fascism. The government breaks the law, the government gets private companies to break the law, the government gives said companies huge amounts of cash, the government attempts to make such behavior legal retroactively. We've got government officials and AT&T officers leaping back and forth between each other in an incestuous loop. Your government spying on you, sponsored by AT&T. It's not 'totalitarian' yet, as evidenced by the fact Democrats managed to stop the immunity, but it is fascism, at least the start of it. (And the same thing's happened with Blackwater.)

It was a comment in a discussion group. I'll try to find the link to the thread which was similar to this one.

K&R

[earth mom]

66. I so hear you...except...wouldn't Gore running for Prez trump a lot of their plans?

He has huge support across the country and I keep thinking that if he runs and anything happens to him before the election or to the election as did in 2000, people will be so pissed off they will rise up and fight the powers that be.

Or...Maybe I'm still holding on to a teeny tiny sliver of hope here that doesn't exist...

Or...Maybe I don't want to know for sure that it's over....

I really don't know any more.

:scared:

[nadinbrzezinski]

68. Gore is running?

Until he announces he is in my no run category

As is all this is kabuki theater for the masses... or those of us who like this inside baseball stuff

[earth mom]

79. I hate to admit it doesn't look like he'll run at this point. It's so over, isn't it? So very over.

:cry:

[nadinbrzezinski]

82. It's over only if we choose to give up

even in the darkest times of WW II... people like my father held a shred of hope

In his case, he lived in a hole, slowly starving to death, with his father, brother and sister... not knowing if they'd live another day
and relying on a family to feed them scraps

I intend to live by that example.

They had hope... our hole is not that dark... not yet...

[earth mom]

87. Gore was my biggest hope because I don't see V for Vendetta happening anytime soon.

There are few things right now that give me hope, Gore was one of them. The internet is another because it's the only place that people can find the truth anymore. But who knows how much longer it will last?

However, I will think of your father when I feel that bit of hope fading. How can I not, when what he went through was so much worse?

Thank you for sharing his story and also for your efforts here on DU.

:hug:

[nadinbrzezinski]

92. You welcome

and also think of the kids we are trying to save.

I don't do this for myself, but for my two young nephews... I am sure there are untold number of kids like them...

It's the next generation.

But hope is the last thing to die.. as it should be

[tom_paine]

88. That's the American Spirit! Not this new Imperial Amerikan Spirit, but the REAL DEAL!

:patriot: :patriot: :patriot:

I agree. It is what makes us human, one of the things, anyway.

[tom_paine]

67. Keep saying it, nadin. And keep saying it and keep saying it...

Like a pebble in a pond, at least if we are not going to stand up and stop it we can at least raise people's awareness of the issue so at least they will have a little more heads up than they would have had if they never considered it at all.

I think the window for that is probably already closed, with not just the massive amount of systemic aspects that need to be healed, but the simple fact that at least 30% of Amerikans simply have been taught not to like American Values, and most of the rest, with the death of High School Civics class, don't understand what the Bushies are trying to destroy and what we are trying to defend, even just by speaking out about it (though many of us have done much more than that since 2000).

We don't have enough people who really want to preserve the System of Checks and Balances, let alone enough to go out and take actions such as sit-ins or civil disobedience or any of the other stuff that Nazis and Bushies laugh at and roll over, greasing the treads of their tanks (or bloodlessly "grease" their tazers and microwave weapons, to update for the new totalitarianism) with their victims.

THAT is the problem. It was the same problem that the Romans had when Caesar came along. Though I think this particular aspect ofthings does not analogize well to Weimar Republic and Nazi Germany (at least there are some things that yet don't, right?) because they did not have the long traditions that Rome and the old USA did.

[nadinbrzezinski]

69. In some ways the paralells are to Rome

but a better model is actually Chile...

And yes, that sends shivers down my back...

And I foresee people dropped from choppers... soon.

[Swamp Rat]

71. Yes

In a rather weird way.

[tom_paine]

86. Here is where we disagree a bit. I do not think the Bushies will be so overt

and I still think there is a possibility, however small, that a Democrat could actually win the "election" and strengthen their control of both Houses. Even Hillary would be a short rest from the relentless advances towards totalitarianism of the last 7 years, thus dragging out the process and giving us a few more good years of life.

There is also the possibility that we and Naomi Wolf and John Dean and so amny others now slowly waking to it, are wrong about the severity of the problem. Boy, wouldn't that be nice.

OTOH, I think we all agree that one of Wolf's "tipping points" (perhaps the Penultimate or Final Tipping Point) will likely come after the next "terrorist attck" whether it be LIHOP, HIHOP, MIHOP, or an actual not-assisted-by-Bushie-Pals-real-honest-terrorist-attack.

And that could be in 2008 or maybe as late as 2013 or 2023. Dare we hope? Probably false hope, but hope that is even remotely realistic is like water to the desert.

Even then, I think the Bushies will continue to develop new and innovative ways to rebrand totalitarianism for an increased market share. And that means, for the foreseeable future, no "disturbingly familiar" images, even to the mostly ahistorical, apathetic and acritical-thinking Imperial Subjects of Amerika of which we too are a part.

So, we can safely assume that:

1) Future inhabitants of Homeland Security Detention Camps will NOT be transported in cattle cars and the like. I was thinking Yellow Schoolbuses might be the Cattle Cars of the New Totalitarianism. One cannot guess details, only forecast trends, so who knows? But I find the idea suitably mad for such a situation, like the Nazis playing beautiful opera music to their victims every day.

2) Homeland Security Detention Camps will NOT have crematoria on sight, and industrialized murder will NOT take place in them. Nor will scientific experiments be performed on Liberals nor soap made from Liberal skin. I would guess camps something more like Sinclair Lewis' "It Can't Happen Here". Guy had it pegged all those years ago of what the American Version would probably look like.

3) Nor dropping from helicopters, nor any of that other overt stuff, that's my take on it, anyway.

But only time will tell. Maybe you are right, maybe I. And maybe, if the USA and all humanity are very very lucky, we are exaggerating the level of the problem and are incorrect as to what this all means.

[antigop]

72. Thank you, nad, for your continued attempts to wake people up. n/t

[nadinbrzezinski]

74. You welcome

I owe this much to those who died to fascism,

Never Forget... even if it gets some derision round these parts.

:-)

[antigop]

Oh, I won't forget. Unfortunately, there are too many who still don't get it. n/t

[nadinbrzezinski]

77. Well some of us will have to bear witness

because that door is fast closing...

Perhaps when those deniers loose a relative to these horros that are about to descent upon the land, they will finally get it

[antigop]

78. I will take no glee in saying, "I told you so" to the deniers. n/.t

[nadinbrzezinski]

83. We will not have to

that is the reality... and when reality hits them, it is a bitch

[Horse with no Name]

73. Great post, but let me add, I think the critical time defeating this monster has passed

I believe we are already past the point. You know what else I think?
You know I love Gore--but I think he knows it too.:(

[nadinbrzezinski]

76. Why he ain't runniing

there are more effective ways to practice resistance and he knows that

I think we have a very narrow gap... but will close by years end

In fact, the final nail might be mukasey walking out of committee to be honest.

[snappyturtle]

93. K&R I got home from a 10 day trip yesterday afternoon which

involved flying. I flew from San Antonio to Chicago (O'Hare). I've only flown two times since the shoe bomber incident. I am struck by the compliance of the people to the TSA procedures. What good has any of this done? I could go into detail as I had a couple of trying moments and I should have said, "What the hell good is all this?" However, I was actually afraid to do so. I watched as TSA employees hassled travelers for not complying with rules they didn't know. It may have been my last flight. Presently,I figure I will have to ask my mother when she plans on dying so I can get a ticket 72 hours in advance as this will be the only reason I will use to fly again. If posters here have any doubts where this country is headed they should go to an airport. I fear for the country.

Thanks for your OP.

[tnlefty]

94. I listened to the hour long Naomi Wolf interview on Randi's show

yesterday, and it was disturbing and I was so angry at the same time. Forget about the flamewars and insults hurled at those who dare discuss this here, but I've tried to talk to people who are more intelligent and more aware in that they don't just rely on the corp. non media for information, and it is total denial.

For the past couple of years I've reflected often on what causes the aggressive dismissals, and I've about decided that one line of thinking is that it can't happen here! Americans would never submit to anything like that! The other seems to be fear and thus, absolute denial.

I prefer to keep my eyes and ears open and to look at uncomfortable scenarios head on and I can't relate to the fear causing denial mode.

Keep on posting! :hi:

[Generator]

95. This may be hyperbole

but when I'm out going for a walk I think the real reason people aren't in the streets besides of course, the endless propaganda, and the fact that we have full bellies is this:

we know in the back of our minds that if there was any mass movement in the streets-they would detain us, torture us, and many wouldn't even be heard from again. It's all right there in the laws they've passed. We know how quick they would be to label US terrorists. The smart ones know better. Anyway, I'm scared to death of torture and prison. I have zero faith in this country.

What's this about closing the borders? I will google it. Our money is worth nothing. We are watching ourselves become a third world country before our own eyes.

[nadinbrzezinski]

97. the article is on this thread

it is "administrative" for the moment

You need to let them know 72 hours in advance with certain critical info, such as your passport number

Administrative measures evolve... as the "threat" becomes greater

And our congress cirtters, fiddle, and the people are afraid

mission accomplished

[NuttyFluffers]

98. nope, i'm pretty sure Bing Crosby and Bob Hope never did that movie...

:+

i know, i know, bad Fluffers, baaad...
:spank:

[IDemo]

99. Not just the borders, but internal travel as well may be at risk

The freedom to travel within the United States-- something the founding fathers apparently felt was so fundamental it didn't require constitutional definition, is under possible (read: done deal) attack with DHS's Secure Flight program. Under this program, you may be denied the right to board an airplane traveling completely inside our borders without Homeland Security's OK. As well, what you read, who you travel with, and your itinerary may become a part of your record.

If this does not speak of fascistic control to the American people, nothing will.

[nadinbrzezinski]

110. I referneced it, and people still refused to see what is in front

of them

[NoodleyAppendage]

101. So, then maybe it's time to join the Resistance!

Lord knows it's only a matter of time before DUers are branded "terrorists" anyway...

J

[Kurovski]

103. K&R. (nt)

[mmonk]

106. It's a bad sign when a presidency has low numbers on job performance,

is in his last two years, and the congress has more of the opposition party than the president's party, and instead of being a lame duck, he has actually still gained power. That's a CLEAR sign our government is broken not even taking into account the administration's crimes.

[femrap]

107. I believe you are correct....

and it's going to get so much worse when the financial disaster really gets going....and then there's the southeastern drought where people could be forced to migrate so get some water.

I pray there is a pretzel out there w/ a big fat W encrusted in salt on it. We need some outside helpful intervention.

I've actually convinced my mother that he won't cede power in '09....which scared me cuz she's always right.

Thx, nadin.

[nadinbrzezinski]

108. You welcome and we are on a really bad road