Face it: We killed a sovereign state with the Iraq invasion.

[marmar]

from The American Prospect's TAPPED blog:



NEVER PLANNING TO LEAVE.

Defense Tech has a pair of posts up about the reconstruction of air forces in Iraq and Afghanistan. In Afghanistan the reconstruction is proceeding as you might expect; Soviet trained Afghan pilots are being brought back into the service to fly older models of available helicopters, with an eye towards increasing the mobility and firepower of the Afghan army. Advanced aircraft remain missing, but that's to be expected; no one believes that the Afghan army will be tasked with territorial defense, or that it will need an air superiority capability, in the near or medium term.

The situation of the Iraqi Air Force is pretty similar. Recall that, in the 1980s and 1990s, Iraq had a large and technically advanced Air Force, complete with all of the latest fighter aircraft from the Soviet Union. Today, Iraq has a few Cessnas, a few helicopters, and a couple of C-130s (large transport aircraft). The purchase of advanced aircraft has been put off to the distant future. In one sense this is perfectly appropriate; the US has a large surplus of advanced aircraft, and it would be absurd to waste Iraqi resources duplicating that capability. In another sense, as I wrote a couple of months ago, the current state of the Iraqi Air Force points towards a situation of semi-permanent military dependence on the United States. On the upside, Iraq will be incapable of threatening Iran, Kuwait, Saudi Arabia, or Israel in the foreseeable future. On the downside, it will also be incapable of defending itself from any of those countries without US support. I suspect that this was thought to be a feature, not a bug, of the 2003 invasion.

This is also related, I think, to the question of state-building in Iraq. The current tribal-oriented strategy will preclude, rather than support, the development of a strong centralized Iraqi state. Military capability will remain largely in the hands of sub-state actors. Without a centralized state, Iraq will never have the capacity to defend its border or its interests without the support of the United States.

What we've gone and done is killed a sovereign state. I suspect that was the point, but it's good to at least be clear about it.

--Robert Farley

http://www.prospect.org/csnc/blogs/tapped_archive?month=11&year=2007&base_name=never_planning_to_leave#037105

[PDJane]

1. It's necessary to be clear about it.......

And will be more necessary when the Hague starts to work.

[TwilightGardener]

2. Absolutely, we killed it. And we have them right where we want them--

crippled and dependent on us.

[The Stranger]

3. It was the Neocon/PNAC plan all along. We've been saying this for years.

[LiberalEsto]

4. Bushcheney wanted a puppet state

in order to give U.S. oil companies easy access to Iraq's oil and oil profits.

[winter999]

10. As oil pushes $100 per barrel

[AzDar]

5. That is true. Like it or not, we also lynched the 'elected' leader of said country without benefit

of a fair trial.
Post-Nuremburg, this should NEVER have happened.
But of course, Georgie sure does enjoy that lynching footage. Every night.:puke:

[FiveGoodMen]

6. "Post-Nuremberg" -- if only we could MENTION that!

People are starting to back off of it now, but there's been this unofficial rule that you can't mention Hitler in an argument or you automatically lose.

Well, you can't bring up Nuremberg without Hitler, so any lessons that we should have learned have been filtered out of the debate by the keepers of that rule.

Others did mention Hitler but were quickly jumped upon by those who don't feel there's any similarity until the body counts are equal.

"Those who can't remember history are condemned to repeat it." And those who refuse to talk about it are no better off.

Let's make sure we never make a stupid rule like "you can't mention Hitler" ever again!

[rodeodance]

7. Bombs kill 16 in attacks across Iraq (And 2 US troops blown up, 2 more injured)

Forum Name Latest Breaking News
Topic subject Bombs kill 16 in attacks across Iraq (And 2 US troops blown up, 2 more injured)
Topic URL http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=102x3050313#3050313
3050313, Bombs kill 16 in attacks across Iraq (And 2 US troops blown up, 2 more injured)
Posted by rodeodance on Thu Nov-01-07 10:30 AM

Source: ap

Bombs kill 16 in attacks across Iraq

By BUSHRA JUHI, Associated Press Writer 1 hour, 43 minutes ago

BAGHDAD - Bombs killed at least 16 people Thursday in attacks across the Iraqi capital and its northern suburbs. U.S. and Iraqi troops arrested 85 suspected insurgents in operations around the country.

........

In Sadiyah, 60 miles north of Baghdad, police said a cluster of three attacks took place around 10:40 a.m., killing five people and wounding 18 others.

The U.S. military announced the deaths of two American soldiers, killed by an explosion near their vehicle in Iraq's northern Ninevah province. Two other soldiers were wounded by the blast, which occurred Wednesday, the military said in a statement.

At least 3,844 members of the U.S. military have died since the beginning of the Iraq war in March 2003, according to an Associated Press count. The figure includes seven military civilians.

Read more: http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=latest_threads

[rodeodance]

8. Topic subject At least 887 Iraqis killed in October

Forum Name Latest Breaking News
Topic subject At least 887 Iraqis killed in October
Topic URL http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=102x3050317#3050317
3050317, At least 887 Iraqis killed in October
Posted by rodeodance on Thu Nov-01-07 10:32 AM

Source: afp

At least 887 Iraqis killed in October

by Salam Faraj 40 minutes ago

BAGHDAD (AFP) - At least 887 Iraqis were killed in Iraq in October, ministry data showed on Thursday, slightly higher than September which saw a total of 840 people killed across the nation.


Data from Iraq's interior, defence and health ministries showed that 758 civilians, 116 policemen and 13 soldiers were killed in attacks across Iraq in October.

Earlier, AFP reported that 554 Iraqis were killed last month and another 333 bodies were found across the country, many of them of people killed in previous months.

A security official with access to the data, however, said these bodies were of people also killed in October, taking the overall death toll for the month to 887.

Read more: http://news.yahoo.com/s/afp/20071101/ts_afp/iraqunrest_071101141647 ;_ylt=AhgAF_wb1zOM0uHpDQiExNoUewgF

[malaise]

9. I hope I'm alive when justice comes calling

for these war criminals

[FormerOstrich]

11. Mission Accomplished

:(