Do You Favor A National Citizenry Database?

[Rage for Order]

Many people propose that the way to deter / end illegal immigration is to heavily fine employers who hire illegal aliens. I agree with this approach, but is it currently a practical solution? In order for this to be practical there needs to be a single database where information is stored on every US citizen, including some type of forgery-resistant biometric data, e.g. fingerprints, retina scans, photographs. And, upon being offered a job, a citizen will have to submit evidence, including this biometric information, to establish that they are in fact who they say they are. Because the only way you can hold employers accountable for who they hire is if there is a system in place that allows employers to verify someone's identity in a very short period of time - say, no longer than 24 hours. Paper documents alone can't be used because they can be forged.

In theory, I agree - employers should be punished severely for hiring illegal aliens. However, until there is a system in place like the one I described above, this option is not realistic. If someone presents a valid social security number and a photo ID, how is the employer supposed to know that the person is not who they say they are?

Maybe there is another way of verifying an applicant's legal status that I haven't considered. If anyone has another idea of how this could be achieved without creating a national databse like the one described above please share it with me.


edit: I am not in favor of this idea

[The Velveteen Ocelot]

1. No!

Sounds pretty totalitarian to me.

[mike_c]

2. no-- not under any circumstances....

Just no. Period.

[Bluebear]

3. Biometric data? Retina scans? Fingerprints? So someone can't come pick tomatoes for $1. an hour?

No thanks.

[nadinbrzezinski]

4. Wrong, what you need is a far shorter database linked to them

green cards.

You present a green card the employer should be able to check the person is on the database

By the way... in case you wonder, as a legal alien you have MOST rights Americans have

Here are two choice ones you don't have as a resident alien

You can't vote

You have to show ID upon demand by any properly identified authority

[Rage for Order]

6. But I'm not referring to people who hold green cards

I'm referring to individuals who come in to the country with no documentation whatsoever (beyond that which is stolen or fake) and want to work, either using someone else's identity or under the table

[nadinbrzezinski]

8. The only way you can stop companies from employing ilegals

is to enforce current laws in the books

And to find them, its not that hard.

Oh well... I can tell you right now NO

THe Staszy was scary, and so was the KGB... you don't want that here

[Bluebear]

10. Want to work at what, cleaning toilets? Is that the job they are taking away from you?

(Serious question)

[Rage for Order]

11. Any job

I don't think there is a job that someone won't do if the pay is right. Of course, the "right" pay is different for each person. An employer will raise the wage for a job until it reaches the point at which someone will do the job.

People coming into the country illegally will not take away the type of job I do. My job is more prone to outsourcing than insourcing. However, the fact that an issue does not affect me directly does not mean that I shouldn't care if it negatively affects others.

[LakeSamish706]

5. I don't agree with it either... What I do think is that if various Departments...

within our Federal System began to do the jobs that they were hired for, and bolstered their staff to where they should be staffed in order to do the jobs, we would be a whole lot better off as a country.

[Blackhatjack]

7. It's already been done by a private corp --CHOICEPOINT. n/t

[rwheeler31]

9. All employers say leave it alone.

[TahitiNut]

12. We 'prove' our citizenship many times in our lives.

We are frequently required to proffer proof of eligibility for the entitlements of citizenship, when obtaining a passport, when obtaining a Social Security number, when applying for federal benefits, and even if challenged at a polling station in an election. Existing processes have been sufficient for years.

For over 20 years, I've been required to provide employers and potential employers more information on my person than my relatives get. I've pissed in jars, provided my passport, submitted to psychological surveys, and taken physical examinations. Employers are even requiring employees to submit to periodic testing to prove they don't smoke, even at home. But when it's THEIR ass on the line, they claim to be unable to determine that 40-50% of their workforce aren't citizens. WTF?!?! They can fire someone for smoking at home or eating a poppyseed muffin, but they can't be held responsible for hiring illegal aliens?

Bullshit. If 100, 200, 300, 400 or more employees are unable to provide a Social Security number that matches their full name and birth-date, only the most criminal and insane person would claim they're not exploiting illegal aliens for their cheap labor. Only a complete idiot wouldn't visit the local Social Security office and make corrections to their account if that data wasn't accurate.

Employers assert their 'right' to employ at will - a right to terminate employment for no reason whatsoever. But when it's suggested they do so for people without a valid Soocial Security account, they complain? Bullshit.

Cry me a fucking river. :grr:

[Rage for Order]

15. I agree with you Tahiti Nut

However, when I talk of stiff penalties for employers, I'm talking about the kind of penalties that could potentially shut down a company entirely. In order to be comfortable doing that, I'd need to be certain that there was a foolproof, government-approved method for employers to assess someone's identity with certainty. At that point willful negligence would be certain and the harshest penalties could be levied.

[porphyrian]

13. Not generally, and certainly not until the hundred or so more important issues are resolved. -n/t

[crickets]

14. No! -nt

[Trillo]

16. Why stop there?

Once employers have access to that, there is no longer any reason for job-seekers to put in resumes. Instead, corporate could apply to potential employees when they need help, since they already know everything about them.

[Rage for Order]

17. LOL...I think you're on to something

Sadly, after the past 7 years that idea doesn't seem quite as far-fetched as it would have in the past.

[Swamp Rat]

18. It won't stop there.

The America we once knew is gone already.