Awesome! Hillary Clinton clarifies her stance on the Iraq War!

[hiaasenrocks]

She will end the war. How? By bringing the troops home.

Except for troops guarding the embassies.

Except for troops training Iraqis.

Except for troops who are engaging al Qaeda in Iraq.

Everybody got that?

C'mon...how the hell can anyone support this double-talking disaster of a candidate?

[TwilightZone]

1. So, just to be clear...

Do you believe that our international embassies shouldn't be guarded?

[msongs]

4. or that ALL troops will be out 10 minutes after a dem prez is sworn in? nt

[hiaasenrocks]

10. There was no discussion of time.

Oh, unless you want to count the time that Hillary said troops would be there until 2013.

But that may have been before or after she said something different.

Who can keep up with her double talking?

[MethuenProgressive]

59. Obama has said he'll keep troops there at least until 2013, same reasons as Clinton.

Pay attention.

[sendero]

69. Yeah...

... screw that idiot also.

That's like saying Charles Manson wasn't so bad, the Zodiac killer murdered lots of people too.

It comes as no surprise to me that HRC supporters are not big on logic.

[creeksneakers2]

66. Hillary never said she'd have the troops there until 2013

She just refused to give a date when she would have them all out. That's responsible promising, not double talking.

[TahitiNut]

8. You mean we can't rely on a nation with which we have relations to have law and order?

It seems to me that should be a prerequisite for having an embassy. After all, it's NOT a military occupation, right? How many troops did we have in Moscow during the Cold War? As I recall, the embassy was open and operating. There's a BIG difference between a platoon of Marines in dress blues and an entire fucking MEF!

:eyes: :eyes: :eyes: :eyes:

[TwilightZone]

14. You cannot be serious.

In case you haven't paid attention to the past thirty years (or more) of American history, American embassies overseas are targets. As such, they require protection.

[TahitiNut]

25. That's all the more reason to insist on local law enforcement protection.

Do you think for a minute that WE would accept an entire expeditionary force with a foreign delegation that insisted they had to provide their own security??? Nonsense! If they cannot do that then we should remove embassy personnel and have diplomatic relations in some safer country. Believe it or not, NOT ALL countries bring in such military force. Just us. What does that say?

Sheesh!

[TwilightZone]

28. So, what happens if there is no local law enforcement?

We're not about to abandon the $800 million embassy we just built there, and I think it's safe to say that the Iraqis aren't going to protect it.

None of the candidates, regardless of what they claim, are going to be able to realistically pull every single U.S. soldier out of Iraq in the foreseeable future.

[TahitiNut]

31. Then there's no embassies. From ANY country. Simple.

I get very impatient with "American Exceptionalism" ... as though we have to have different rules from other countries in the exact same places.

That kind of thinking is what permits the continuation of predatory corporate colonialism, imho.

Insofar as that $800 million abomination of neocolonialism, they can make it into a University as far as I'm concerned. I'd take the money out of George's hide.

[TwilightZone]

36. I don't get your point - we're not the exception. Most nations have embassies.

Dozens of nations have embassies in the U.S. and around the world.

As far as Iraq and the embassy, I think that you're misinterpreting my position, perhaps intentionally. I don't agree with the embassy in Iraq - I think it is a ridiculous waste of resources and a big middle finger to the Iraqi people. They don't have electricity, but we have a fricking city in the middle of Baghdad?

I also firmly believe that we should get the hell out of Iraq, and the sooner the better.

I, however, am also a realist. I simply do not believe that it is reasonable to expect that ANY of our candidates can deliver on a promise to get ALL troops out of Iraq in the foreseeable future. It's just not going to happen. Iraq will be another Korea.

[JVS]

37. Not every country puts an embassy in every other.

If you don't like the neighborhood, not moving in is an option

[TwilightZone]

38. That's certainly true.

Embassies, however, serve a lot of functions to people traveling overseas - passports, visas, medical care, legal assistance, etc.

[FatDave]

62. Hmmm. For some reason, I just don't see Iraq as a tourist destination right now (nt)

[Usrename]

77. Just what is the function of the billion dollar castle in Iraq?

:wtf:

[TwilightZone]

79. My thoughts on it, posted previously....

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=389x2170724#2171796

[Yael]

63. The embassy in Tel Aviv is one of the highest profile (danger) embassys that we have

and it is staffed by Israeli guards, not US Military.

[RaleighNCDUer]

76. That is absurd.

The only reason Korea is Korea is because of the million man army on the other side of the border, with no peace treaty signed.

How is that in any way equivalent to Iraq? What mortal enemy is ready to pour across the border at the first sign of weakness? What democracy is being guarded against communist hordes?

The only reason for us to be there is so we can steal their oil. And for that, the locals will hate us till the day we leave - not be thankful for our protection, because we are not defending them from their enemy. We ARE their enemy.

Face it. WE are the bad guys in this script.

[Guaranteed]

80. After five goddamned years????

What do you want?

Another five goddamned years???

[Carolina]

65. Touche

Our Secret Service protects the Saudi Embassy. We don't have, nor would we stand for, troops from assorted foreign countries posted throughout Washington, DC!

[creeksneakers2]

73. I was curious about that, so I looked it up....

http://www.washdiplomat.com/00-09/a5_9_00.html

Embassies are basically responsible for their own security, but under federal statutes, the uniform division of the Secret Service, which is part of the U.S. Treasury Department, is also responsible. The State Departmentís bureau of diplomatic security also provides advice and protection against acts of terrorism and security risks for foreign embassies. Washingtonís Metropolitan Police Department is not involved in security issues at embassies, unless they are called to investigate a crime on embassy grounds.

[hiaasenrocks]

9. So, just to be clear...

Did you stop reading after the second sentence?


Of course the embassies should be protected. But guess what? I'm not running for president, nor am I telling people that I will end the war...while supporting two of the major tenets of the war (training and fighting).

Wake up. She's on all sides of these issues. You aren't falling for her bs are you?

[TwilightZone]

13. So, you have a problem with her position, even though you agree the need is there.

Curious.

[hiaasenrocks]

15. Nah, not really curious at all.

The point, which I thought was pretty obvious, is that she gives one general, broad explanation of her position...then lays out a plan that goes in the exact opposite direction.

Now, since she seems to have fooled you completely, I'll leave it to others to decide if she's a) lying, or b) stupid.

Cheers.

[hiaasenrocks]

18. And, by the way, you are knowingly ignoring 2 of the 3 points...

1.Except for troops training Iraqis.
2.Except for troops who are engaging al Qaeda in Iraq.

Why are you ignoring those positions of Hillary's? Very interesting.

[TwilightZone]

21. Ok, I'll bite.

Do you think we should ignore al Qaeda?

Do you think we should train Iraqis to protect their country?

Since you agree with the third, perhaps you agree with the other two as well.

[hiaasenrocks]

23. Absolutely not.

We should not be engaging in combat operations in Iraq. Period.

We should not subject more American lives to any danger in Iraq, including the danger of training, taking the Iraqis out on operations.

Hillary, of course, would like to end the war...except she won't...or something. Glad we're all clear on that. Sorry she has you fooled.

[TwilightZone]

27. No more fooled than you are...

in believing that other candidates are magically going to pull every single troop out of Iraq anytime soon.

[hiaasenrocks]

29. LOL. Nice try.

That was almost an "I know you are but what am I?" response.

Anyway, your point also falls flat because other candidates have said they would end combat operations. That squares with their overriding position of ending the war. Will they do it soon, as you asked? No, the election isn't until next November and they wouldn't be sworn in until January 2009.

If you're truly falling for Hillary taking every position on every issue (not just Iraq - the other candidates called her out on it tonight on the question about Spitzer, too), I suppose there's not much any of us can say to show you the light.

Happy voting.

[TwilightZone]

30. We're not going to abandon the $800 million embassy will just built there.

It doesn't matter what any of the candidates say. It's simply not going to happen. There will be troops in Iraq for the foreseeable future, regardless of the person who takes over as president in '09.

We were in Korea for 50 years. We may be in Iraq for that long or longer.

[Oilwellian]

39. You can't compare Iraq to Korea

SKorea wanted us to stay...Iraq does not. It's insane for us to believe we can occupy an Arab nation without consequences. You can also be sure our near billion dollar embassy is a prime target and I doubt it will stand the test of time.

I'm quite surprised Hillary mentioned Al Qaeda, particularly since recent reports state Al Qaeda has been crushed in Iraq.

[TwilightZone]

40. When have we ever cared what Iraq wanted?

We don't seem to care much about what Iraq wants, and that's part of the problem, of course.

I agree with you re: consequences and that the embassy is a big box with a target painted on the side. The lack of understanding of foreign cultures was part of what got us into this situation in the first place.

[annabanana]

50. Yes.. We have to "honor" the lives of those who died to GET that

monstrosity built after all. .

[flyarm]

55. and of course that monstrosity has nothing to do with housing oil exec's ...with movie threaters

and olympic size swimming pools..and lovely restaurants..while the pions are on the outside..with no potable water or electric..i say blow the fucker up..it disgusts me!

fly

[wtmusic]

81. There are al Qaeda in Iraq?

I thought they were boogiemen drummed up by the Pentagon to continue the occupation indefinitely.

Do you have any evidence? Video, documents, anything? :shrug:

[arcos]

45. LOL! So, do you think there's a massive amount of US military guarding embassies around the world?

Do you think most uninvaded -yet- countries would approve of this?

[shadowknows69]

49. So let a private company guard them

Anything that doesn't have USA stamped on its uniform. We need to get our military out.

[mike_c]

54. no-- not the one in Baghdad-- it should be ABANDONED....

Is that clear enough?

[Sufficient Voice]

72. Hillary will bring the troops home...

to a fire bombed Iran!

[Wiley50]

2. Her stance seems to be wider than Larry Craig's n/t

[flyarm]

56. true words!!..eom

[wtmusic]

83. And her intentions as pure nt

[tyedyeto]

3. In other words..... SNAFU

For those who don't 'do' acronymns

Situation Normal All Fucked Up

[ccpup]

5. Or that we should allow

al-Qaeda which is NOW in Iraq because of the war to explode like wildfire and take over the whole region?

[eridani]

12. What crap. Al Qaeda is roundly despised by most resistance groups

If we leave, foreign fighters will be the only target left for their (very legitimate under the circumstances) xenophobic rage.

[Hippo_Tron]

43. That's one scenario...

The other is that the Saudis put enough backing behind Al Qaeda and other Sunni forces and they end up in a bloody stalemate with the Shia.

Not saying it's a reason to stay in Iraq, but your scenario is not the only possibility.

[JDPriestly]

6. So, she is going to remove the troops guarding the oil fields?

If she leaves the troops who are engaging Al Qaeda along with those guarding the embassies, isn't she leaving most of the troops?

[hiaasenrocks]

11. Yes, that's the point.

She tells people she will end the war, then lays out a plan that (surprise!) does not end the war. At all. Not even close.

Believe it or not, she's fooling lots of people.

[leftchick]

52. I don't think she fools so many

and she actually has been saying this for quite some time now.

[Solly Mack]

7. my soldier hubby - who served in Iraq - got a good laugh out of that

[HCE SuiGeneris]

16. Just gave this thread rec. # 10

Glad your hubby is safe with you.

[Solly Mack]

19. Thank you, BushDespiser12!!

[hiaasenrocks]

20. Glad he's home, and thanks for his service. Unfortunately, TwilightZone and Hillary

would like to keep this war rolling along.

[Solly Mack]

22. That's why he laughed..it wasn't a funny ha-ha laugh

pulling "combat troops" out BUT going to continue the very things combat troops are doing now..

It's smooth talk...unless a person knows something about the military and how it works and what's happening in Iraq.

[TwilightZone]

33. Your assumptions are amusing and quite inaccurate.

I haven't even chosen a candidate yet, but your OP was so unrealistic, I felt it necessary to respond.

In fact, it's so unrealistic that you've already conceded that you disagree with one of the points on which your OP was based.

For the record, I agree that we should get the hell out of Iraq, and the sooner, the better. I, however, don't believe in pipe dreams, and I understand that the chances of that are nil, regardless of what any of the candidates claim.

[sjdnb]

17. It's called politcal ambition

Shillary and the rest, except, Biden (who, of course has NO chance of securing the nomination), don't give a rat's ass about what is the RIGHT thing to do for America...only, what will get them the win.

[Hamlette]

24. so, a question for the opening poster

Double Whammy or Tourist Season.

For me it's Double Whammy but we have this debate sometimes. . .

[hiaasenrocks]

26. Tourist Season.

I like DW, but TS is a more fun read, in my opinion.

I like everything he's done, including the two books for young adults.

[Hamlette]

41. what could be funnier than cheating at a pro bass fishing contest?

You and Betsy are SOOOOOO wrong.

[mvd]

32. Well, those should be the last to leave

I have no problem with an orderly and careful withdrawal if it starts soon and is more than just a token. Al Qaeda will probably start spreading from Iraq when we leave, so there still shouldn't be an occupational force.

[bvar22]

34. K&R

Enough double talk.
Enough Triangulation.

[mark414]

35. hey, she also blames the Iraqis for not being able to deal with a war they didn't ask for

is anybody who doesn't have their head in the sand surprised?

you'd think after the disaster we have in the White House now people would want to elect someone that, oh i don't know, could actually take us in a seriously different direction? turn over a new leaf and start a brand new, never before seen American era?

no, instead they just want to get into a time machine and go back to the Clinton status quo. great for Hillary, bad for everybody else.

[Richard Steele]

42. Well, I'm glad she cleared THAT up. Grrrecommended

[Hippo_Tron]

44. Aren't we currently fighting other militias besides Al Qaeda?

Seems that Hillary wants to narrow the mission so as not to include that.

I don't really think that there is much merit in Hillary's plan, or Obama's for that matter. It's really just gradual deescalation that will ultimately accomplish the same thing as pulling out all at once would, but it's more politically expedient. Nixon referred to this as Peace With Honor.

Unfortunately unlike in 1968, Peace With Honor is the lesser evil. The alternative is further escalation, nuking Iran, and tripling Guantanamo.

[Hubert Flottz]

46. I don't...

I won't...

[Perry Logan]

47. Each lame criticism of Hillary makes me support her more. This one was a dilly.

[Froward69]

48. so you must support

Bush a bunch!

[rolleitreks]

51. I'm sure Hillary has a "secret plan" to end the war,

which cannot be fully implemented until after 2012 . . .

It'll be 1972 all over again.

[emilyg]

70. Same as Obama.

[ShortnFiery]

71. Yes, let's hear it for the political reincarnation of LBJ? Hey! Hey! ...

Yes, those were "The DAZE." And NO, the Democratic President didn't COME THROUGH to get us out of that hell hole either. :crazy:

[MyNameGoesHere]

53. Freewill sucks huh? n/t

[onehandle]

57. Not a chance in Hell that we will bring all of the troops home.

No serious candidate can claim that we can.

The best that will happen is that the majority comes home and we no longer expand our "war" on the Iraqi people.

Baghdad will be fortress America for a long, long time.

[mwb970]

60. I was going to say that but I was afraid I'd get flamed.

Acknowledging reality is something Hillary does far better than her critics, here or elsewhere.

[wtmusic]

84. That's what they said about Vietnam.

Unfortunately (or fortunately) the Iraqi people might have some say in what we do with our troops.

[proud2BlibKansan]

58. And she will bring them home next year

except the ones who are staying until 2013.

[Tierra_y_Libertad]

61. "War is peace", "I have a secret plan." "Support the troops". etc.

[Kurovski]

64. Super!

Oh! My carrot cake!!

[TomClash]

67. Except for the troops in Iran nt

[emilyg]

68. Sounds like a good plan.

[ShortnFiery]

74. Well, it's a great plan if you are an Investor or a General Officer in the Pentagon.

:( However, if you are an average American wage slave living from paycheck to paycheck, HRC is not making a hell-of-va lot of sense. But gee, they just don't understand *DREAMS* like Dennis Hopper has thoughtfully schooled us on ... OH! and/or the importance of closely monitoring our illustrious wealth management portfolios. :puke: :thumbsdown:

[Evergreen Emerald]

75. I think there should be a requirement that people who create threads

should not have their heads up.....


Every. One. Of. The. Candidates. Said. The. SAme. Thing. Excep. Richardson. And Kucinich.

Is Obama's stance on the war ok with you? Is Edwards' stance ok with you? If it is--then what-the-hell-are-you-talking-about.

If not: why pick only on Clinton?

Good god.

[HughBeaumont]

78. Not I, said the cat.

I can't trust anyone who believes the Failure Fuhrer when lives are on the line, or that free trade works to the benefit of the Average Joe. This isn't who I want running my country.

Besides, I don't believe she would turn one current red state, and would be in danger of turning one or two more red.

[La Lioness Priyanka]

82. so you think we shouldnt guard our embassies?