Rumsfeld flees France fearing arrest

[babylonsister]

http://wor.ldne.ws/node/8596

Rumsfeld flees France fearing arrest
Sat, 10/27/2007 - 08:45

Former US Defense Secretary Donald Rumsfeld fled France today fearing arrest over charges of "ordering and authorizing" torture of detainees at both the American-run Abu Ghraib prison in Iraq and the US military's detainment facility at Guantanamo Bay, Cuba, unconfirmed reports coming from Paris suggest.

US embassy officials whisked Rumsfeld away yesterday from a breakfast meeting in Paris organized by the Foreign Policy magazine after human rights groups filed a criminal complaint against the man who spearheaded President George W. Bush's "war on terror" for six years.

Under international law, authorities in France are obliged to open an investigation when a complaint is made while the alleged torturer is on French soil.

According to activists in France, who greeted Rumsfeld shouting "murderer" and "war criminal" at the breakfast meeting venue, US embassy officials remained tight-lipped about the former defense secretary's whereabouts citing "security reasons".

Anti-torture protesters in France believe that the defense secretary fled over the open border to Germany, where a war crimes case against Rumsfeld was dismissed by a federal court. But activist point out that under the Schengen agreement that ended border checkpoints across a large part of the European Union, French law enforcement agents are allowed to cross the border into Germany in pursuit of a fleeing fugitive.

"Rumsfeld must be feeling how Saddam Hussein felt when US forces were hunting him down," activist Tanguy Richard said. "He may never end up being hanged like his old friend, but he must learn that in the civilized world, war crime doesn't pay."

International Federation for Human Rights (FIDH) along with the Center for Constitutional Rights (CCR), the European Center for Constitutional and Human Rights (ECCHR), and the French League for Human Rights (LDH) filed the complaint on Thursday after learning that Rumsfeld was scheduled to visit Paris.

[Kurovski]

1. Coward.

Filthy, stinking criminal coward.

Move to Paraguay, shitbag. Get the hell out of my country.

[barbtries]

20. i second that emotion

i was going to respond to the OP with the same exact word, adjectivised: fucking coward.

murderous moronic motherfucking coward.

and of course he got away. stealing another cupful of my hope as he ran.

[flordehinojos]

34. poor Paraguay ...

wouldn't the fair and balanced thing to do be to hold rumsfeld accountable for his crimes in a jail cell right here in these united states?

[Kurovski]

41. I ain't holdin' my breath.

:-)

[flordehinojos]

68. neither am i. but, o, it would be so sweet if justice could be had that way.

[Kurovski]

71. I'm with ya.

:thumbsup:

[dickbearton]

106. The war criminal is on the run. Good start!

[Seabiscuit]

107. "He can run but he can't hide". (GWB speaking of Bin Laden).

[dicknbush]

2. Hooray Hooray!!!!

THis is exactly whatr must be done to these guys even after their reign of Terror! Harrase them and haunt them everytime there is an opportunity that will remind them that they are in fact criminals. I am sure Condi will be going to France to do some shopping in the future. Do the exact same thing to her when she arrives.

[Annces]

3. Run run

How does it feel.

[FREEWILL56]

89. Yes, he's running and hiding just like Sadam did.

I just hope he's found and hanged in the same manor.

[demnan]

4. Viva la France!

n/a

[SeattleGirl]

5. Hey Don. You can dish it out, but you can't take it, can you.

Asshole.

Wish they would have arrested you the moment you set foot on French soil.

[bdamomma]

78. why didn't they?? so he ran to US Embassy is that right, and they

got him out?

[rabies1]

125. Yeah, were they legally not fast enough to nab him?

From what I've seen of the French, they don't fool around. I don't think they care about what political correctness is - they seem to have more of a "people" run government. Or else they take to the streets demanding what they want. France appeared to be bold enough to actually go ahead and grab him. I believe that nearly all Americans would have been elated if they had succeeded.

I hoped & hoped & hoped.

[BleedingHeartPatriot]

6. As cliched as it sounds, this is the best news I've seen today!

:kick: MKJ

[havocmom]

7. He & Henery the K can sit and play cards, talk about the days they could travel

He isn't gonna be able to leave the yard anymore.

[quiet.american]

8. What? He "cut-and-run"? What a "defeatist" attitude! nt

[TwilightGardener]

9. Bwahhh! Run, Rummy, run, you fucking war criminal! America might be

too chickenshit to take you on, but they're on to you in the rest of the world.

[Subdivisions]

10. What a pathetic cowering little weasel! You better get to Paraguay

you sniveling little war criminal!

[EFerrari]

11. A felon AND a coward.

Digital cameras, Don? :sarcasm:

[zeemike]

12. Ya got to love the French

They are not afraid of American politics like the leadership is.

[CTyankee]

19. Ah, zee garotte?

Too bad the Bastille is no more. He could sit chained in a dungeon, listen to the cries of the other inmates and contemplate whether he is next for zee interogation.

[zeemike]

102. I am not a cruel person

But somehow the image of that appeals to me. I guess sometimes justice is also cruel.

[A Simple Game]

114. There are only two words for people like you and CTyankee!

Web Cam!!!

[Hekate]

112. I want to be sure Rummy is not tortured with those "it's not torture" techniques. No sirree Bob.

:evilgrin:

Hekate

[CoffeeCat]

151. Yeah, let's see how torture-free Rummy believes...

waterboarding is.

I also remember how Rummy described the 1,000 bombs that fell on Baghdad during
"Shock and Awe". When a reporter dared to suggest that thousands of innocent
people were murdered, he launched into a pithy lecture about how much "care"--
oh the "great care" that was taken when we decided which targets to hit.

Yep. It's amazing how much love and compassion really does emanate
from a bunker buster. :eyes:

I'd soooo like to see the same "great care" foisted upon Rummy McOwlerton.

The man is sociopathic, inhuman, lying scum.

[shadowknows69]

13. Fuck!!!!

We need one of these war criminals to be apprehended to bring this shit to a head. Cheers for France.

[daninthemoon]

14. Read some of the threads under the article. Here's the first few::

spiderpig - Sat, 10/27/2007 - 09:13
If we didn't save their asses, TWICE, France would've become a Nazi slave state.

- With apologies to Rep. Lantos

reply, 0 points
Anonymous (not verified) - Sat, 10/27/2007 - 10:11
so now it's time to redo the favour and make sure America doesn't become a Nazi slave state.

also: godwin

reply, 0 points
Anonymous (not verified) - Sat, 10/27/2007 - 12:49
whahahhaah american pig american piggy piggy piggy!

reply, 0 points
Anonymous (not verified) - Sat, 10/27/2007 - 15:32
YOU saved nothing. Your grandparents did. And we are all grateful to them, not you. You start wars.

reply, 0 points

[Exultant Democracy]

123. Oh that is great. And it is true, thank you France for trying to help.

[kimmylavin]

15. Good for them!

Now, does * have any upcoming trips to France planned?

[Blue Fire]

135. Probably not anymore!

[intheflow]

16. Bwaahaahaa!

It couldn't have happened to a nicer international war criminal. :evilgrin:

[eShirl]

17. "he must learn that in the civilized world, war crime doesn't pay."

Indeed.

[Glimmer of Hope]

18. Hahahaha! This made my day. I dream of that evil POS behind bars.

[stubtoe]

21. Think we'll hear about this in the MSM?? hmmmmm?

Yeah right!

[BornagainDUer]

22. K&R!! We need alot more stories about these thugs fleeing justice!!

[malaise]

23. Bwaaaaaaaaaaaaaaah

Run you coward. Run you war criminal. Run! I hope you are arrested every time you travel.

Love this:

"Rumsfeld must be feeling how Saddam Hussein felt when US forces were hunting him down," activist Tanguy Richard said. "He may never end up being hanged like his old friend, but he must learn that in the civilized world, war crime doesn't pay."

[WinkyDink]

24. This is so awesome. He can keep company with that other persona non grata, Kissinger.

[DemoTex]

25. A mere taste of what's in store for the Bu$h cabal.

Did they really think that the world would let this fucking shit go unpunished? They can run, but they cannot hide. Maybe Bu$h has room for them at his 98,000-acre War Criminal Compound in Paraguay.

[Raejeanowl]

155. Wouldn't It Be Fun?

To see all of them picked off, arrested, jailed and tried one-by-one as international war criminals as they individually travel outside this country?

Sort of knock them out of that "we're the decider" and ultimate high determiner/interpreter of justice (what's a crime, who's a terrorist, what is torture) in the whole goll-damned world mindset, hmmm?

[Redstone]

26. May I inject a bit of sanity into this thread? "According to activists in France,"

blah blah blah.

Stop for a moment and think, my friends: You're being spun. The rightwingers are not the only people capable of generating spin that makes them look better, or that makes a particular situation seem like a "stunning victory" when it is, in fact, not such a thing at all.

I doubt very much that Rumdum "ran away." I doubt even more that he was under ANY imminent danger of being arrested.

Trust me, because I'll always tell you the truth even when the truth is not what you want to hear: This was much sound and fury, signifying NOTHING.

It's a pleasant fantasy, it is, but no less a fantasy for being pleasant.

Redstone

[tammywammy]

29. Thanks, that's what I was thinking as well

It's more like "Rumsfeld left as scheduled"

[sicksicksick_N_tired]

67. Why underestimate the real-life repugnancy towards brutal tyrants like Rumsfeld?

How can that be minimized?

There were hundreds of millions of people AROUND THIS EARTH who stood in opposition of the neocons' war on the Middle East BEFORE the "shock and awe" on Iraq.

Were you there?

Perhaps, you fail to acknowledge, let alone realize the "hearts and minds" of humanity. Otherwise, you would have the capacity of accepting, as a possibility, one depraved human being running from his crimes.

We all choose WHAT to believe, huh.

[Garbo 2004]

95. Not a matter of minimizing the disgust in which Rummy is rightly held by many

just because some don't jump to believe as "fact" an unsourced, uncredited anonymous internet article that allegedly cites unsubstaniated "beliefs," rumor and speculation.

Belief is not a substitute for facts. How many people still "believe" that Iraq attacked the US and thus justify the war? Too many.

[troubleinwinter]

75. I think so.

[bjobotts]

143. Agreed, but the headlines point the way to what should be.

Rums wasn't worried in the least but I'm all for their visits being protested and charges yelled at them wherever they go for mass murder and torturers. They are not patriots as they like to call themselves but criminals and traitors to the constitution.

[emilyg]

51. You're right. Short lived fantasy.

[danhan]

56. Thanks Redstone

This thread is a bunch of dreamer crap.

There is no way that he was ever in danger of being arrested. "Fled?" My butt.

France, especially under their new leader wouldn't dream of it.

Hate to say it but....reality check! We can all only dream on Folks.

[sicksicksick_N_tired]

72. Welcome to DU! *waving* I hope this place helps growth of your ability to THINK.

:hi:

:rofl:

[tocqueville]

80. you know very little about France

France has an independent justice

A few days ago a warrant was issued against 5 Moroccans top officials for the Ben Barka story (Ben Barka was a political opponent to the former King of Morocco and was abducted in France and tortured to death by Moroccan agents)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ben_Barka

This was at the same time that Sarkozy was visting Morocco selling arms for billions and stuff. The worst timing ever.

I can tell you that if the French justice decides to indict Rummy they'll do it and it's nothing Sarko can do about it.
If he even attempted and it came out it would be a first class scandal and he wouldn't dream about it.

I don't buy this story either (can't find any trace in French media) and I want it confirmed in other medias first to believe it.

But even if a lot can be said about France, we aren't a banana republic.

[BleedingHeartPatriot]

137. Welcome. Your empty journal is reflective of a few others I've seen around here.

:hi: MKJ

[HughMoran]

77. Probably true, but it's MUCH more interesting to imagine him running

for his life. Since he is immoral and guilty of the crimes charged, it is appropriate to imagine a world where justice really does exist.

[dickbearton]

110. Run, walk, crawl, just leave. Rumdum is to feeble to run...

Let him walk or be dragged away, but he knows people are after
him. As for injecting a bit of sanity into Redstone, think my
friend, your spin (blah blah blah) sounds like that of a
Republican stooge. It is a start, signifying plenty. It is a
victory when charges are brought against these war criminals.
Trust you, FU.

[Cessna Invesco Palin]

118. Generally not a good idea...

...to trust unsourced articles from the interweb, either.

[Raejeanowl]

163. Aw, Man

And I was having such a nice dream, Ma; why'd you wake me up?

[Gregorian]

27. YOU CAN RUN, BUT YOU CAN'T HIDE!

Hahahahahahahaha!

I don't care how infantile I may sound. It feels good.

At least some folks on this planet are still pulling for basic laws of human rights.

[Garbo 2004]

28. "unconfirmed reports coming from Paris suggest." In short, no facts to substantiate the headline.nt

[Redstone]

30. Just what I said upthread; thank you for reinforcing my opinion. This is all

just wishful thinking.

Redstone

[malaise]

31. This is true

http://www.nytimes.com/2007/10/27/world/europe/27rumsfeld.html?_r=1&ref=europe&oref=slogin

<snip>
Several human rights organizations based in the United States and Europe have filed a complaint in a Paris court accusing former Defense Secretary Donald H. Rumsfeld of responsibility for torture.

The group, which includes the International Federation for Human Rights, the French League for Human Rights, and the Center for Constitutional Rights in New York, made the complaint late Thursday and unsuccessfully sought to confront Mr. Rumsfeld as he left a breakfast meeting in central Paris on Friday.

Jeanne Sulzer, one of the lawyers working on the issue for the human rights groups, said the complaint had been filed with a state prosecutor, Jean-Claude Marin, saying he would have the power to pursue the case because of Mr. Rumsfeld’s presence in France.

[Garbo 2004]

33. Yes, that part is factual. But no evidence Rumsfeld "fled" France to avoid arrest

from an investigation not yet commenced and in which charges have not been filed by a prosecutor.

What the OP posted is getting some people all jazzed apparently, but there's nothing to support the assertion that Rumsfeld "fled" France, skulking across the border to Germany, fearing arrest as the thread title and article linked to states.

[sicksicksick_N_tired]

39. Fact: he was there. Fact: he is subject to being detained. Fact: he avoided being detained.

Those who filed the charges against him knew he was coming and, given the advocates involved, I am certain they were on the line to the appropriate officials.

He may not have feared arrest but he certainly avoided being detained.

[Garbo 2004]

48. A complaint was filed by citizen groups, not law enforcement, to commence an investigation

from which the court/prosecutor may issue charges and an arrest warrant. There's been no investigation yet or charges filed by a prosecutor. No legal proceeding yet that would result in Rumsfeld's being subject to detention or arrest. So no, it's not a "fact" that Rumsfeld was subject to detention.

As the The Center for Constitutional Rights, one of the organizations that filed the complaint, notes:

The Center for Constitutional Rights (CCR) has filed a complaint against Donald Rumsfeld in France, charging him again with torture committed during the U.S. government’s so-called “war on terror” in Iraq and at Guantánamo.

As France has ratified the UN Convention against Torture, France has an obligation under domestic and international law to prosecute or extradite alleged perpetrators of torture.

But for the complaint to go forward, the national French Prosecutor must decide to open an official investigation. Please take a few minutes today to write a letter to the French Prosecutor telling him that Donald Rumsfeld must be held accountable for his crimes and that the French government should open an investigation into the torture he explicitly authorized. http://ccrjustice.org/get-involved/action/demand-rumsfeld-be-charged-torture

[sicksicksick_N_tired]

61. When a complaint pertaining to violence is filed, either here or there, action,...

,...is taken, given the opportunity, to retain the offender.

The reference you proffer is merely a message to encourage follow-up,...just like we do, here,...with respect to any violent crime. Hell, we even have "community watch" teams to encourage action on crimes.

Why take such efforts out of context? THAT is curious, to me.

[Garbo 2004]

76. That is precisely the context. It's not automatic that a filed complaint immediately results

in an order to detain or arrest. (Not even when police file to a DA's office, by the way. A DA may decide the cops don't have enough evidence to detain a suspect or issue a warrant for arrest.)

Neither did the unsourced article actually present any evidence that 1. Rumsfeld "fled" or even left the country and 2. if he left the country that he did so to avoid detention, which you asserted was a "fact."

I have no problem with Rummy and his other partners in crime finding the world a much smaller place for them to roam freely as a result of active legal investigations or actual legal charges. But I don't realistically imagine that France is going to just immediately pounce and detain or arrest a former US Secty of Defense without considerable due process, including an investigation. (You know, the sort of thing that Rummy would deny to others.)

Neither does Ratner, BTW: "We know that we can't get him into prison right now, but it would be great to make sure that he couldn't safely leave the U.S. anymore," said Michael Ratner, president of the Center for Constitutional Rights. http://mdn.mainichi.jp/international/news/20071026p2g00m0in011000c.html

[sicksicksick_N_tired]

79. I don't want to fight with you. I simply enjoy those who fight against war criminals.

There is no reason (or PROOF) that Rumsfeld DID NOT escape being detained. The only information at hand is independent which, I tend to trust over CM whose jobs appear to be reporting lies.

Believe what you please. I am not here to fight with you.

I don't want a fight.

I'll respect your preference without giving up mine.

Okay?

[Garbo 2004]

113. The only "information" you have is anon report of anon unconfirmed alleged reports, suggestions &

beliefs posted on a web site, not an independent news agency or reporter. Not reported in the French media according to a DUer in France. Or anywhere else independently.

But as long as it simply says something you want to believe, regardless of the source and you don't even know what that source is, that makes it trustworthy and credible to you. That's rather a low standard for trust on internet "news," don't you think?

My "preference" is for substantive factual verified reporting, preferably from a known source with a track record rather than an anon source reporting nothing more than unsubstantiated rumors on a mysterious web site.

[Pooka Fey]

119. Kicking your post. This article sums it up nicely. Thanks.

[malaise]

35. So why did he leave France so quickly?

Where is he now?

[tammywammy]

38. Maybe it's when he was scheduled to leave anyways

I haven't seen any mention of how long his stay was supposed to be there.

[sicksicksick_N_tired]

40. Ah, I see. Human rights advocates are as likely to lie or exaggerate as government officials do.

Is that the point where the proffered perspective starts?

[Garbo 2004]

50. The OP cites an unsourced article citing unnamed "activists." These claims, or rather the

"beliefs" of these activists that "suggest" Rumsfled "fled" are not attributed to the organizations that actually filed the complaint. Those organizations know that just filing a complaint doesn't automatically result in an order to detain or arrest.

There's no byline to the article or anything in it to indicate that the claim of Rumsfeld "fleeing" wasn't any more than unsubstantiated "beliefs" or "suggestions" by some people or just something simply pulled out of someone's butt and slapped on the internet.

[sicksicksick_N_tired]

62. I've simply noticed how often such pieces of information are dismissed compared to,...

,...the FLOOD of disinformation printed in CM.

:shrug:

I'll agree there is plenty of stuff pulled out of someone's butt and slapped onto the most available consumers.

No doubt about that.

[Redstone]

52. Yes, they are. Sorry to burst your balloon, but exaggeration for the purpose of

convincing the public of the legitimacy of your claims is NOT the exclusive province of the right wing.

Both sides play that game. I'm sorry to have to be the one to break that news to you, but it's the truth.

Redstone

[tocqueville]

90. I agree with you Redstone to a point : pictures of protest verified

unless proven otherwise

1) It's true that Rummy "encountered" protests, it has been rapported by the "Courrier International" a serious newspapers

http://www.courrierinternational.com/article.asp?obj_id=79142

of which 2 reporters were present. They talk about a "handfull of protesters" shouting "murderer" outside the building where Rummy participated in the press conference organized by the Foreign Policy Magazine.

dated from Friday the 26th

PICTURES OF THE PROTEST HERE (warning copyright)

http://www.flickr.com/photos/pierrepierrepierre/sets/72157602715286326/

2) It's true that the law suit has been received :

"Au Tribunal de grande instance de Paris, la communication se limite au strict nécessaire. Laurence Abgrall, vice-procureur de la République, confie à Rue89 que "la plainte ne devrait pas rencontrer de problème majeur", mais avant de la traiter "on vérifie qu'on est bien compétent":

"La difficulté est de savoir si Donald Rumsfeld est protégé ou non. On est aussi en train de vérifier s'il est toujours en France. Mais je ne peux pas vous en dire plus."

http://www.rue89.com/2007/10/26/de-passage-a-paris-rumsfeld-est-attaque-pour-tortures

confirmed in several French papers.

Translation

Laurence Abgrall, vice-attorney of the Republic says : "the filed suit should not encounter a major problem"... "But we verify if we are competent"... the difficulty is to know if DR has immunity or not, we verify to if he is still in France, I can't say more

This dated from Friday the 26th

3) nothing proves that he "fled" to Germany so far. Probably the visit was a one-day visit.

[nealmhughes]

122. Actually, "vice-procureur" should probably be "asst. prosecutor" rather than just attorney.

The Procureur de la Republique is the equivalent of the US Attorney General, so this is a lot higher position than a local prosecutor. It would be like an announcement coming from an Asst. Attorney General.

[Garbo 2004]

66. Do you know that he did leave France? & ahead of schedule? Do you know if he's still there or not?

You assume a "fact" not yet in evidence. We don't know his itinerary. For all we know he may still be in France or is golly gee whizzing here back in the states or somewhere else as scheduled.

All the unsourced, uncredited article does is cite "unconfirmed reports" and some people's alleged "beliefs" that he left France due to "fearing arrest." Not even an alleged "sighting" of his leaving France. Speculation, beliefs slapped on the internet do not in themselves a fact make.

[Dukkha]

32. A neocon American is afraid of the French

:rofl:

[Initech]

36. What was he doing in France anyways? Looking for some Freedom Fries?

[NotGivingUp]

37. Get the bastard. n/t

[Disturbed]

45. Why wasn't this asshole arrested?

Were the French just talkin' the talk?

[Garbo 2004]

53. Because there's been no actual legal charges filed or arrest warrant issued.

Human rights organizations filed a complaint against Rumsfeld. That's all. There's been no legal investigation yet or any legal proceeding that has resulted in an arrest warrant or an order to detain.

[Redstone]

54. Uh, not the French in general, but this particular group? Yes, they were.

Manufacturing a tempest in a teapot is not something that ONLY the rightwingers do.

Sometimes those one the Left do it as well.

Redstone

[Gman]

42. May this be the fate of every single one of them

May this only be just the beginning. May there never be a square inch on the face of the earth where they are safe from arrest, prosecution and punishment.

Bush, Cheney, Rumsfeld, Gonzales, Rice, Feith, Bolten, Negroponte, and the list just goes on.

[sicksicksick_N_tired]

46. Well, they all "worked real hard" to earn such a fate. I'm SERIIIIES!!!!

Since they worked so damn hard at betraying basic human rights, it just seems "natural" they would suffer some consequences. Gee, how aweful it would be for them to be restricted to US territory where, eventually, they may face some repercussions, too!!

Gotta' give it to that network,...they DID work damn hard to destroy a great deal of democratic progress and succeeded in imposing great suffering on huge numbers of innocent people.

They worked DAMN hard.

[C_U_L8R]

43. it's gonna get really interesting

as the neocons get Nuremberg'd.

[malaise]

58. The world can't wait n/t

[Amonester]

133. I sure would make thousands of DVDs of these sc*ms getting what...

they deserve, and I would "give 'em all away" just for the fun of it.

[sicksicksick_N_tired]

44. I'd enjoy watching something like this snowball around the globe.

No, I would start a middle-age nasty dance if something like this snowballed around the globe.

EW! My kids laughing at my disco version of hip hop moves!!! :rofl:

[Hand]

47. VIVE LA FRANCE!!!

:toast:

[IDemo]

49. "Some eau boarding today, Monsieur?"

[malaise]

57. LOL

Oui can dream :D

[DemGa]

55. Right, Rumsfeld was "whisked away"

Uh huh, sure.

[democrank]

59. This POS should be in prison

along with the rest of the dirtbag criminal chickenhawk torture kings in the Bush administration.

[CyberPieHole]

60. Rumsfeld, you can run but you can't hide. Sooner or later...

you are going to have to answer for your war-crimes.

[bobthedrummer]

63. That's what most traitors and war criminals do until arrested. k&r.

IMPEACH CHENEY FIRST-IMPEACH CHENEY NOW!
:patriot:

[helderheid]

64. Until :) K&R

[lunatica]

65. Hey Rummy...

Stuff happens in Democracies!

:rofl:

[tom_paine]

69. It is heartening to see a Free Nation make a tyrant take to his heels.

Run, Rummy! Run, before the French extraordinary rendition your ass to Syria!

[TheCentepedeShoes]

70. Woo!!

Hey Rumbutt! I toss a French fry in your general direction!

[Prisoner_Number_Six]

73. It's called "turnabout", you gutless wonder.

I would so very much love to see his face right about now- he's coming to the realization that he's very much a part of the larger world, and that world has no fucking use for him.

He's a torturer and a murderer, and it's now obvious he's a flaming coward.

:rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl:

[Olney Blue]

74. Nobody wants you, Rummy. Not even the chimp.

[bdamomma]

81. too bad France couldn't tell Germany that they are harboring a

fugitive and a war criminal.

[jeff30997]

83. Well...

I'm sure that they still have a couple of people fitting that category(old-scumbag-war-criminal)over there.

[jeff30997]

82. I have an idea...

Someone should tell Dick that France is a great place for a hunting trip.Hehehe.A great place for HIM to be hunted.

[bdamomma]

160. that's an idea!

[tomreedtoon]

84. Anyone hear of the movie "Operation Eichmann"?

It supposedly discussed the capture of Adolph Eichmann, one of Nazi Germany's greatest criminals, mostly by Israel's security agency. I don't know if it's out on video or not.

IMDB does claim that Eichmann is played by Werner Klemperer...yes, the late actor who played Colonel Klink on Hogan's Heroes, and his assistant is played by John Banner, who played Sergeant Schultz. And Banner's character supposedly said "I see NOTHING, I know NOTHING" in the film.

Sounds like a really good intelligence agency...certainly not an American one, since they couldn't even find Saddam...ought to try a similar operation.

[lligrd]

85. And That Is Why They Are Called Chicken Hawks

Puck, puck, puck. Run, run, run.

[stimbox]

86. That would be so sweet if they arrest him. n/t

[Radio_Lady]

87. Maybe he'll become a man without a country. He fled to Germany.

How inappropriate. How ironic.

[Garbo 2004]

99. He did? Because we read it on the internet it must be true? No French reports of this per our DUer

in France. (post 80) Weren't you a reporter? What's the sourcing on this article? Who's the author? Anything cited other than "beliefs" or "suggestions" by unnamed "activists" that Rummy "fled" the country?

Good grief.

[Radio_Lady]

128. SUNDAY UPDATE: Although I've done "rip and read" news on radio, I have never been a news reporter.

If you're unfamiliar with that term, it means that I would put together five minute news shows at the top of the hour at WIOD, Miami from 11 PM to 5 AM. That was in the 1970s, when the national and international newswire companies (AP, UPI or Reuters) sent their messages via teletype machines.

I didn't source anything.

Oh, I forgot. Newsman Henry Barrow used to arrive for the 5 AM newscast. I wonder what ever happened to him?

I was hired once to do a couple of news features during the Florida primary season in February 1972. When I moved on to WEEI in May 1972 and WMEX in Boston later on, we had news reporters who did the hourly newsbreak. The three I remember most were Len Lawrence, Les Woodruff, and Ben Farnsworth, along with others.

Sorry if this original poster didn't do any research. I only research things when I post the original message, not when others do -- and I expect them to do the same. However, not all of them do.

Frankly, I was pretty busy yesterday, the first Saturday after our Oct. 9 - 23 vacation -- and it was a beautiful day, clear, cool, and fun. Audio Al and I ended up at the radio station on Saturday afternoon, not Friday. We recorded a show for November broadcast.

Have a wonderful week.

Radio Lady in Oregon

[DeSwiss]

88. K&R!!!

I love that headline: "Rumsfeld Flees..." It sounds so natural. Try it:

Bush Flees
Rove Flees
Cheney Flees

See? It can get addictive....

[Rex]

91. So why run if you are innocent?

Rummy the Scummy Coward. Ya that is right, the world thinks of you idiots as MURDERERS.

Goodluck with that crowd. :eyes:

[DRoseDARs]

92. Did he leave a trail of pee behind him? n/t

[MasonJar]

93. I just love the French!!!!!!!!!!!!

[Cheap_Trick]

94. Donald Rumfilled, a pussy?

say it ain't so :rofl:

[onehandle]

101. Donald Rumsfeld is the biggest pussy.

A man stands up for what he believes is right.

Donald Rumsfeld is not a man.

[MonkeyFunk]

96. This is stupid

Rumself wasn't charged with anything, he didn't "flee" and he had no fear of arrest.

This is nonsensical.

[Torn_Scorned_Ignored]

97. Here's hoping they smoke him out of his hole

[L. Coyote]

98. If France catches him, I hope they disshevel him and check him for head lice on camera.

[tbyg52]

100. Good

I hope these criminals are chased from pillar to post in every country on the globe. Our country has been hijacked. Thanks to other countries for trying to save us from ourselves.

[NoGodsNoMasters]

103. Hah!

Hope they catch him. Kinda fitting for one of the architects of rendition, etc.,...Hows' it feel on the other side, Donny?

[Fuzz]

104. A similar thread was pulled on FR as 'fake'

just FYI.

:)

[ingac70]

105. Dubya and Dick will face similar charges...

Once their term is up.



:evilgrin:

[bananarepublican]

108. I hope French intelligence has a rendition program! n/t

[sakabatou]

109. LMAO

Hope he goes to jail.

[Hekate]

111. Be still, my heart. That's delicious. nt

[Union Yes]

115. Will they charge Bush Cheney Alberto Condi Karl any time soon?

[DarkTirade]

116. I really shouldn't laugh at other people's misfortune... but what the hell.

I'll do it this once.

Mwahahaha! Run Rummy, run!

[cartach]

117. Groundswell of public opinion

is what counts and all of these comments are part of it.At this point what's more important is not so much that the story is true or untrue but that the possibility of it being so is being discussed and kept in the forefront.The more discussion on the subject the less likely it will fade into the background.Hopefully at some point authorities in France or some other country will actually follow up on a complaint and progress it further,hopefully to a just conclusion.The more these war criminals can be harassed along the way,the more likely they will eventually face justice. But the pot has to be kept boilng.

[lonestarnot]

120. Aha ha ha hah ha. Rummy can't go to Paris.

:rofl: and I can! tee hee hee. FUCK YOU RED RUMMY!

[DemFemme]

121. Karma's a bitch. n/t

[Peggy Day]

124. Il est guerre criminelle et un lâche (He's a war criminal and a coward!) nt

[Amonester]

134. Il est un criminel de guerre et un lâche.

B-)

[Peggy Day]

157. My bad.

That's what I get for trying to act like I can speak another language. You know I'm really disappointed that they don't teach kids another language in the US when they are young, and when their minds are like sponges, not like me that goes screaming off into the parking lot when I have to take my first language test (It was Spanish).
I was testing out my new translator in gmail.

[HamdenRice]

126. A little common sense about this

There seem to be opposing views about whether and what Rumsfeld "fled." Rumsfeld was not on the brink of being detained. But neither was this a trivial stunt by human rights organizations.

I think a better interpretation than thinking of him as fleeing detention, is thinking of him as trying to avoid service of process.

This kind of case is exceptionally complicated. It involves private citizens asking the authorities to begin a case. Think of a private person, say a victim of rape, going to the police to ask that a criminal case be started. That is the position Rumsfeld is in, and France and other signatories of the International Convention Against Torture, take this very seriously. Moreover, according to Le Monde, the complaint included an affadavit by a former US Brigadaire General supporting the case against Rumsfeld. That's serious evidence:

http://www.lemonde.fr/web/article/0,1-0@2-3210,36-971351@51-971276,0.html

"Deux témoignages emblématiques sont cités : celui d'un ancien détenu de Guantanamo, Mohamed Al-Qahtani, qui fut exposé à des sévices que M. Rumsfeld avait personnellement autorisés dans une note datée du 2 décembre 2002; et celui de l'ancien commandant d'Abou Ghraib, l'Américaine Janis Karpinski, qui s'est dit "prête à témoigner contre Donald Rumsfeld dans le cadre d'une enquête criminelle française"."

"Two emblamatic witnesses are cited: one, the former detainee at Guantanamo, Mohamed Al-Qahtani, who was exposed to service that Mr. Rumsefeld had personally authorized in a note dated December 2, 2002; and one from the former commandant of Abu Ghraib, the American Janis Karpiski <she was a Brigadaire General--HR> who is said to be "ready to testify against Donald Rumsfeld as part of a French criminal investigation."

Moreover, many seem to be overlooking the variety of expensive and life disrupting sanctions, beyond detention, that are threatened against Rumsfeld:

"La plainte a été déposée auprès du procureur du Tribunal de grande instance de Paris, Jacques Marin, et elle s'assortit d'une demande de "détention" de M.Rumsfeld, ou de mesures assurant "sa présence sur le territoire" français."

"The complaint has been filed with the prosecutor of the court of first instance of Paris, Jacques Marin, and it involves a request for detention of Mr. Rumsveld or measures assuring 'his presence on the territory' of France."

<end quote>

Keep in mind that Rumsfeld is an extremely rich man, no doubt with investments and assets in Europe. Conventionally, legal measures intended to assure a person's presence for an investigation include attaching assets. Even if Rumsfeld cannot be detained, his assets can be attached in France or in any country (virtrually every European country) that is a signatory to the Convention Against Torture, that responds to a French court's request to attach his assets. In fact, in this incredibly complex problem of international jurisdiction, financial treaty law, mutual enforcement of judgements, and conflict of laws, it is possible that his assets in the U.S. might not be safe.

At best, Rumsfeld looks forward for the next several years spending millions of dollars on legal fees and much of his time huddled with lawyers and bankers trying to hide or retrieve his assets abroad.

[Junkdrawer]

130. Best Post on this thread.

:thumbsup:

[loudsue]

127. No, no! They meant Rummy has FLEAS! Dogs of war, ya know.

Hell, they all have fleas. And cooties. And head lice. That's what Saddam Hussein had, too, remember?

None of them are really welcome in polite society.

[TheBaldyMan]

129. I hope Tony Blair is next in line for war crimes - VIVE LA FRANCE!

All the crooks that started this war will spend the rest of their lives looking over their shoulder.

[CoffeeCat]

131. That just warms the cockles of my heart...

Just picturing that piece of trash--scampering around the European countryside,
in an effort to avoid ARREST--is just beautiful.

The man is an abomination. A criminal of the worst kind. I see no difference
between this sick bastard and Ted Bundy or Jeffrey Dahmer.

The saddest part of the BushCo story is how these war perverts remain oblivious
to criticism. They surround themselves with like-minded thugs, and rarely get
a glimpse of what the world really thinks of them.

It's so nice to hear that he was "on the run". He deserves to completely understand
that 99 percent of the world considers him a classless thug and a common criminal.

Run Donny Run!

[jeff30997]

142. "I see no difference between this sick bastard and Ted Bundy or Jeffrey Dahmer. "

There's a major difference:Bundy and Dahmer are dead.:P

[CoffeeCat]

148. Bundy and Dahmer are dead...

...but Donny's soul has been dead for years.

[jeff30997]

150. Lol! I wonder if he drinks blood and...

Sleep in a coffin.:)

[progressoid]

132. He can hang out with Henry Kissinger.

There are a few counties that Hank can't visit anymore for fear of arrest as well.

[baldguy]

136. Neocons should be treated like Nazis.

Chase them & hound them until they have to get away to some godforsaken corner of the planet.

[robinlynne]

138. fantastic. Now watch congress censure France.

[JustAnotherGen]

140. n/s

I quadruple, triple, double, dog dare them to do that. They better keep their mouths shut and butt out. ;-)

[bjobotts]

145. Very good point. congress will sensure France and O'Reilley's head will explode.

[JustAnotherGen]

139. It was in the NY Times

Not pick at anyone that's saying that it's not in the MSM:

http://www.nytimes.com/2007/10/27/world/europe/27rumsfeld.html?ex=1351137600&en=1f0d73d912054ce8&ei=5090&partner=rssuserland&emc=rss

October 27, 2007
Groups Tie Rumsfeld to Torture in Complaint
By DOREEN CARVAJAL
PARIS, Oct. 26 — Several human rights organizations based in the United States and Europe have filed a complaint in a Paris court accusing former Defense Secretary Donald H. Rumsfeld of responsibility for torture.

The group, which includes the International Federation for Human Rights, the French League for Human Rights, and the Center for Constitutional Rights in New York, made the complaint late Thursday and unsuccessfully sought to confront Mr. Rumsfeld as he left a breakfast meeting in central Paris on Friday.

Jeanne Sulzer, one of the lawyers working on the issue for the human rights groups, said the complaint had been filed with a state prosecutor, Jean-Claude Marin, saying he would have the power to pursue the case because of Mr. Rumsfeld’s presence in France.

There's more there, it's not a lengthy article . . . but it's there.


Vive la France!

[rodeodance]

147. Thanks.

[MonkeyFunk]

149. Yes

that a group filed a complaint was in the NYT.

What was NOT there was that Rumsfeld had been charged in France, or that he had to "flee" to avoid arrest. That part is pure fantasy.

[Garbo 2004]

154. No one disputes that human rights organizations filed a complaint in France. That's public record,

widely reported and the organizations involved issued press releases. Copies of the complaint filed are available online.

What has been disputed is the credibility of the uncredited, unsourced "It is believed and suggested by anon activists, but not confirmed, that Rummy fled France to avoid arrest" story in the OP.

[Rosemary2205]

141. Bullshit.

When you fertilize the board with crap like this, what do you hope will grow?

Sister - I like a lot of your posts, but this one is just awful. I'm sorry. But if you really think France is going to incarcerate and try a former US Defense Secretary on those kinds of charges then I humbly have to tell you it might be time to take a break from DU.

[freefall]

153. See post 126. The headline may be over-the-top but the situation

is certainly not bullshit for Rumsfeld.

Peace,

freefall

[Rosemary2205]

162. Some "nothing" group filed a lawsuit.

whoopdidoo. I doubt Rummy even cares. The man has the full support and backing of the White House. No French court is going to indict Rummy on criminal charges related to how he did his job as Defense Sec.

[rodeodance]

144. i did not hear a thing on Sun. talk shows-. Did anyone?

[L0oniX]

146. If only they would do that to Bush anytime he leaves the country.

[undergroundpanther]

152. All I can say is,

:-)
I know you're out there Cuz I can feel ya
Yeah I can feel ya trying to pull me down
I know your kind You kinda like it
When people tell ya not to come around
Here's looking at ya Been nice to know ya
I see the lines written on your face
I wish you well But I gotta tell ya
Ain't nothing human ‘bout the human race

You can run
But you can't look behind you
You can hide
But the truth's gonna find you

Some people fight it like some disease
They carry secrets to an early grave
They try to fake it While on their knees
Never knowing what they really crave
They got no values They got no soul
No sense of purpose Nothing to believe
Call me your friend Then steal me blind
To me you're nothing but a common thief

You can run
But you can't look behind
You you can hide
But the truth's gonna find you
..... :-)

You Can Run by Alan Parsons

[MoonRiver]

156. About time.

:thumbsup:

[SoCalDem]

158. Next time he should wear a disguise

[bdamomma]

161. ......................

don't give him any ideas!!:rofl:

[xxqqqzme]

159. Run rummy Run!

cowardly rat bastard.