Low Morale Has U.S. Troops in Iraq Pretending to Patrol

[Javaman]

New York -- Iraq war veterans now stationed at a base here in upstate New York say that morale among US soldiers in the country is so poor, many are simply parking their Humvees and pretending to be on patrol, a practice dubbed "search and avoid" missions.

Phil Aliff is an active duty soldier with the 10th Mountain Division stationed at Fort Drum. He served nearly one year in Iraq from August 2005 to July 2006, in the areas of Abu Ghraib and Fallujah, both west of Baghdad.

"Morale was incredibly low," said Aliff, adding that he joined the military because he was raised in a poor family by a single mother and had few other prospects. "Most men in my platoon in Iraq were just in from combat tours in Afghanistan."

According to Aliff, their mission was to help the Iraqi army "stand up" in the Abu Ghraib area of western Baghdad, but in fact his platoon was doing all the fighting without support from the Iraqis they were supposedly preparing to take control of the security situation.


http://www.alternet.org/waroniraq/66160/

[Taverner]

1. IT'S THE LIBURRRRRRLS FAULT!!!!

IN fact I just heard this on Howdy Doody yesterday (Cavuto) - the reason we are losing in Iraq is because of Liberal News networks who want soldiers to die. And we Democrat Party types have parties every time a soldier dies.

[Turbineguy]

2. Well that fits perfectly

since republicans pretend to give a shit about them.

[AndyA]

3. This would keep casualties lower, as they aren't as likely to be blown up by

a roadside bomb if they're parked.

They all know the reasons given for them being there (connection to 9/11, Saddam a threat, harboring terrorists, having WMDs, etc.,) are all lies, which makes it pretty senseless that they're still there.

And we all know it's the REPUBLICANS who are KEEPING THEM THERE, in harm's way. Honestly, I don't blame them for seek and avoid. Bush and Cheney wouldn't serve their country when it was their time, why should they expect others to do so based on a lie? :shrug:

[tabasco]

4. Another thread on this:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=389x2133750

[Submariner]

5. This tactic is the only thing that makes sense

No one in their right mind would want to fight for King George in a drummed up phony war that does nothing but get people killed. Bush is an asshole and all the troops know it.

[lovuian]

6. thats exactly what happened in Vietnam

this is now about survival

Since Congress and Bush don't care why should they

[TahitiNut]

10. True... but it's gone on in all wars to some extent.

During my tour in Viet Nam (1969), it was somewhat common knowledge that guys on lurps (LRRP - long range reconnaissance patrol) would often deliberately choose routes that avoided contact. Of course, "the best-laid plans..." and all that. It was not, however, universal or ubiquitous. Such avoidance typically happened when the force equity was foreseen as most inequitable. There wasn't a lot of eagerness to go on "suicide missions."

For my part, I often "disobeyed orders" when assigned to an advance perimeter guard role. In standing guard around critical facilities, most troops were situated in bunkers on the fortified perimeter but several would be 'planted' about 100-200 yards outside the perimeter in concealed positions with field phones at "Listening Posts". The field phones were the crank-and-squawk kind, connected to the bunker by a wire. The idea was to watch for stealthy approaching hostiles - sappers, advance patrols, etc. - and warn the guys on the perimeter that "the British are coming!" Well, the last thing we'd want is to give our position away and get a bayonet in the brain. Unfortunately, the command bunker would periodically RING the field phone to check that all was OK. It didn't take a rocket scientist to know that the noise of the field phone would just help Charlie find you. The common reaction? We'd disconnect the field phone wires ... and then apologize the next morning when we were recalled. Those were some long nights.

[Tierra_y_Libertad]

19. What? You weren't eager to make the "Ultimate Sacrifice"?

Preferably, while waving the flag and crooning "God Bless America" to the VC?

I'm afraid that you were suffering from a bad dose of unpatriotic sanity.

[TahitiNut]

22. I was pretty much an "existentialist" in those days. Sartre, et. al.

It was life at Maslov's most fundamental levels. That 3rd level was mostly back home "on the block" with Jody.

[symbolman]

25. Jody got my gal :)

Where could a guy get a copy of this to hang by the bathroom mirror?

I'm only half kidding :)

[Bonhomme Richard]

7. Just more lies from phony soldiers.

NOT!

[shadowknows69]

8. I was still driving cab around the 2006 elections

and the level of hope from troops about the new congress was palapable. Many thought they'd be home soon as soon as they stopped funding the war. I'll bet we could have kept some of those soldiers on our side and voting rolls but I truly wonder now.

[DemoTex]

9. Yet another way Iraq is Viet Nam redux.

Read John Laurence's memoirs, The Cat from Hue. On April 6, 1970, Charlie/2/7 Cav rebelled against their new company commander and refused a suicide mission down an obvious "ambush alley" in warzone C near the Cambodian border. What made this rebellion particularly effective was that it was done in the presence of a CBS News crew that was "living" with Charlie company for a documentary.

During the later years of the Viet Nam debacle, poor morale was rampant, especially in rear areas and base camps. There were many, many instances (again, late in the war) - mostly unheralded - of patrols not patrolling, LPs not listening, and other challenges to authority. US troops saw the uselessness of the ARVN (Army of S. Viet Nam) in major bug-outs like Lam Son 719 in 1971 and Quang Tri during the NVA's Easter Offensive of 1972 and said, collectively, WTF? I'm not going to die for this shit.

Now the chickens are coming home to roost for Bu$h. And in the end, if Bu$h/Cheney are not stopped immediately, it will be so much worse than Viet Nam that we will all be speechless and breathless, and Bu$h/Cheney will be cursed by all. Mark my word!

[alcibiades_mystery]

11. Search and Evade

Indeed, the local PAVN and NLF units even had informal agreements with many US units to avoid conflict in particular areas. This is after 1970, for the most part.

[RaleighNCDUer]

13. But of course, our All Volunteer Military wouldn't do anything like

those unreliable draftees did in VN, would they?

:sarcasm:

I don't know how many times i've said that the problem in VN was NOT the draftees, but the illegal war. Draftees have served well in several wars, and the Civil War (at least on the North's side) and WWII were won on the backs of draftees.

The volunteer army is not a cure all when the problem is empire building.

[provis99]

29. during vietnam, much of the rebellion WAS caused by volunteers, not draftees

The draftees pretty much just had their one-year tour of duty, and then they were out of the military. The volunteers during the era had much longer hitches in the military, and were often lied to by their recruiting officers (nothing new there), so they wound up getting more and more pissed off the longer they were in the service. For example, much of the sabotage and mutiny carried out on American aircraft carriers during the Vietnam war was done by the long-service volunteers, not drafted sailors.

John Kerry himself is an excellent example of the volunteer, not draftee, who turned against the war.

[MindPilot]

14. That reminds me of that scene in Apocalypse Now

of the news cameraman yelling at the soldiers "try to look like you're fighting...don't look at the camera! Go by like you're fighting!"

[Nickster]

21. Isn't that Full Metal Jacket?

[jmowreader]

23. No, it's Apocalypse Now

They were with Colonel Kilgore as he cleaned out a beachhead. (This was before the mission where they wiped a village off the map because the area was good for surfing.)

[MindPilot]

31. Nope. the classic from Full Metal Jacket is the reporter asking the door gunner

"how do you shoot women and children like that?"

"easy; you just don't lead 'em as much."

[TahitiNut]

16. "LPs not listening" ... well, I listened ... but I "screened" my calls.

There's no telling what I'd do if, in listening, I heard/saw Charlie. Would I reconnect the field phone and crank it? (Those things are NOISY.) I rather doubt it. I'm glad I didn't have to find out. Seeing Charles from the bunker line that late February night was bad enough - when we didn't have LPs out.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=389&topic_id=2141532&mesg_id=2141866

[DemoTex]

17. True. Anyone on an LP not listening was either asleep or crazy.

But, as you point out in your post, sometimes discretion is the better part of valor: "Lord, let me make it through this night; for another day .. another fight."

My guess is that Sir Charles was thinking, essentially, the same thing: "Lord, please don't let me find a 3-man LP tonight; I don't want no Claymore .. I don't want no fight."

[TahitiNut]

18. Funny... I haven't thought about those LP nights for years now.

Looong nights. Sometimes solo, but more often with a buddy who'd sit back-to-back - literally taking each other's 'six' - and keeping each other awake. All night. We'd gather some brush and find a depression in the ground. If we could. Early in-country, we'd be afraid to make the slightest noise. After being jaded, we'd still lay low but might indulge in a smoke (using a poncho and steel pot to mask the glow) or stretch our legs. Crazy-making times. It's frightening to realize that some MIAs were on LPs.

[Chomskyite]

26. I gotta say . . .

. . . sitting up on a late night like this one and encountering a historically-experienced human voice like yours is one of the dozens of reasons I've kept coming to DU since 2001. You have a fan in the Mississippi Delta, TahitiNut. Keep bringing it.

[PsN2Wind]

24. Off topic DemoTex

But took an old friend out to the Pima County Air & Space Museum, and there as big as life is an AP-2H, the only one remaining of the four built for VietNam. I'll check on the aircraft number if you want.

[The_Casual_Observer]

12. "Mission Accomplished!"

[eppur_se_muova]

15. So who says we didn't learn our lessons in Vietnam? nt

[alfredo]

20. Makes a lot of sense. Nobody wants to die for a lie.

[KeepItReal]

27. Bush & Co. breaks the All-Volunteer Army WITHOUT a draft

" "search and avoid" missions are common "

damn.

Both the 'Guard and Regular Army are just phoning it in now in Iraq.

Command and Control is broken. They need to get the hell out.

I don't care who the next President is. People out there better not forget who truly broke our military: Bush & Co, GOP'ers, Neocons, Chickenhawks, and some Democrats who bowed-down to those aforementioned clowns over and over when it came time to talk about ending this fiasco in Iraq.

[superkia]

28. Everyone needs to realize that this war was supported by no...

evidence and all of those who voted for it should be held accountable. This is one of the main reasons I am supporting Dennis Kucinich, he called it for what it was and said there was no evidence and voted against it. If you don't believe in this war and what its being fought for, you shouldn't be supporting someone who voted yes and continued to vote to fund it. The facts were there, yes we didn't see them because the main stream media didn't report the facts to us but they all saw the evidence and voted to go to war. If you are supporting a candidate that either voted for the war or voted to fund the war, YOU support the war for oil! I am so sick of all of the people that support these candidates saying how they are against the war but they support the people who enabled this war. If your candidate voted yes to the war or voted yes to funding it, then you should shut the fuck up because you are just as much to blame as they are for the deaths from this unjust war.

Please stop acting like you care, if you support these same people, you obviously don't care about the destruction of Iraq and the thousands of deaths that have come from this war. Look at the facts people, its there.Either you support those who supported the unjust war or you don't. Like I said, if you are supporting those who have supported this war, you obviously don't care about this war so you should really just shut up! I am totally against this unjust war and thats why I support Dennis Kucinich, he was the only leader that called it for what it was and spoke for the people.

[krispos42]

30. K&R n/t