The mentality portrayed in this toon astounds me

[n2doc]

$14/hour for skilled labor? And this is supposed to be a wacko thing? Given the real rate of inflation, this is like $5/hour in the 80's.

I really think there is some sort of "institutional memory" where the RW'ers think everything is still cheap, and that we should all be living a comfortable life on 20k a year. Somehow when they go to the store it doesn't dawn on them that they can't walk out without spending $100 on groceries.

[Buzz Clik]

1. Detroit News? That cartoonist is likely to be quite unpopular with the locals.

[MrScorpio]

14. The only decent thing about the Det News is the Sports section

The rest is throwaway

[spoony]

18. Yeah their op-ed page is totally RW, anti-union, etc

[mwb970]

2. There's precious little "mentality" in right-wing "thinking".

They're much bigger on "feelings", such as fear, anger, and sputtering outrage at that liberal creation, reality.

[TwilightGardener]

3. Depends--as a starting wage for a job that requires no higher education, it's not bad.

If you work at an auto plant for 5 years, and you're still making close to that, then that's a different story.

[Didereaux]

6. it says SKILLED labor jackass n/t

[TwilightGardener]

8. Uh, what's with the name-calling, JACKASS?

"Skilled labor" does not equal "professional", as in Bachelor's degree. My last nursing job (college degree) only paid $18/hour, after 4 years' experience--JACKASS.

[Didereaux]

11. okay, repair your own car the next time, or build your own home...

Do away with skilled labor and you will find sheepskin tastes really lousy...even deep-fried.

[TwilightGardener]

12. Fuck, I'm not insulting skilled labor, but there IS often a wage difference

between college-educated professionals and trade-school graduates...but not always. Sometimes the trade-school guys make far more than folks like teachers and nurses, too. Nowhere does the cartoon specify what type of job it's talking about, anyway. 14 bucks an hour for starting on the floor of an assembly plant or as a new shop rat doesn't seem that crazy to me.

[Didereaux]

16. okay, now we're back on firmer ground...

First though, be careful about that 'degree' thing being a proof of value. Degrees. in some instances. show only an ability to learn, and as proof that a person jhas been exposed to the jargon of the trade. If that were not so, then Doctors would simply leave med school and begin opening brains, and treating hangnails. All Fortune 500's would hire newly graduated accounting students each year and sack the old one, to save money. etc. No, skills are not to be discounted at all. PAy should be based upon skill, and demand no matter what the discipline.

Now as to that $14.hr being good pay or not. Consider this: Around Houston, the illegal capital of America the day laborer on the street corner demands and gets $10/hr No taxes/social security or other deductions are made. Now take that $14/hr and apply all local/state/federal deductions and you get a more realistic comparison.

I realize this whole discussion is based upon a problem far more complex than you and are are discussing, but that is the point I think.

[soothsayer]

10. The cartoon doesn't say skilled, does it? Just the post does.

[Zywiec]

15. When Jackass is one of the first things out of his mouth,

don't think his reading comprehension is any better.

[n2doc]

17. I'm willing to bet someone with no machine shop skills is not going to be hired

Especially with so many ex-workers around who need jobs.

Of course, I am one of those crazy people who thinks that 14 an hour for unskilled labor is probably a good starting point given the prices of things.

[Horse with no Name]

4. We should all be living comfortably on $20k a year

So that THEY can live comfortably on a million.

[Didereaux]

5. yeppers,

..and you can tell exactly who the closet 'freeper greedy yuppy scum' are simply find the ones saying that is an adequate wage to live on, or thats not a bad wage or....ad nauseum. I hate to say this, having lived through to many 'recessions', but these self-absorbed greedy sons and daughters of my generation really, really need a strong dose of economic stress!

[YOY]

7. Right up there with "Health Care benefits? That's outrageous!"

The artist should have penned "Not living like a serf? That's outrageous!" but apparently his connection on reality is pathetic.

[PassingFair]

9. Doesn't astound me, and I LIVE in Michigan.

Even with things going to wrack and ruin here,
the idiots blame the unions....

It's a CLASS thing. It really is. Some people BELIEVE they are better than others.
Whether its because they are "educated" or by birth.

In THIS day and age.

:puke:

They don't believe "working people" should have
"vacation homes" or even "vacations", I guess.

:puke:

They don't realize that union wages and collective
bargaining created an economic situation that floated
ALL boats, blue and white collar.

The white collar people are hurting now, but they are
TOO STUPID to see that the low wage conservative profit
mongers are to blame for their disappearing jobs, NOT the
$50,000/year union guys!

When the worker can't afford the product, the system won't work.

Did I mention the people around here are jealous ASSHOLES?

Losing their homes and jobs, and BLAMING the fictional,
"impossible to fire", "sits on his ass" union guy.

The unions have given concession after concession, but when
the corporations are willing to go to countries where people
will gladly work for $10.00 A DAY, there is no room for
"negotiation", and the jobs will go.

And they have.

Hundreds of thousands to India and China and Mexico.

[The2ndWheel]

13. Until we're able to outsource on a solar system level, unions would do well on the moon

Unions don't have much power anymore because physical reality doesn't mean as much as it used to, in terms of capital. That, and the organizational effort required for some type of global union isn't there, and might never be(since physical reality still means something for actual people).

[gollygee]

19. That's close to 30k

That's probably reasonable for a starting wage. Honestly, kids graduating from college are lucky to make that much these days just starting out. Which is more of an argument against that being a starting wage than for workers making that. But whoever wrote that is using it as an example of someone asking for way too much money. So they're thinking $14 an hour is a "pipe dream" amount of money.

It's frustrating because I remember, here in Michigan, when auto workers made enough on one salary to create a good life for their families. It wasn't that long ago - I remember in the early 80s knowing kids whose parents worked for GM and that they lived comfortably. Not rich, but their houses were in good shape and the kids wore new clothes, which is a far cry from how working people are living today in Michigan. People who did union labor had enough to buy their house and know they'd own it at some point, take the kids on decent vacations every so often, have a couple of cars in good condition, eat well, and save up some money to send the kids to college if they wanted. That is now considered an unreasonable demand. What happened where it became considered unreasonable for someone to work full-time at a job and make enough for a modest but good life? How much would it cost to attain that life at the current time? At just under $30k, which is what 14/hour is, you'd be living in a small apartment, not have vacations, buy used clothes, and be pinching every penny. People starting out do that, and that is reasonable for people who are starting out, but at some point, people used to move beyond that. Not anymore.