"We can't stop it" (San Diego fires)....Losses could reach **$42 Billion**

[Roland99]

Firestorms scorch Southern California for 3rd day
881,500 evacuated; 68,500 homes threatened; losses already to $900 million

http://www.marketwatch.com/news/story/almost-900000-flee-california-fires/story.aspx?guid=%7BCB9884FF%2D3FC7%2D4BC2%2DBEF4%2DE846B82459BE%7D

Southern California wildfires already blamed for more than $900 million in losses continued to rage out of control Tuesday night, pushing officials to concede they may only be able to contain the infernos while they blaze a trail west to the Pacific Ocean.

...

San Diego Fire Captain Kirk Humphries told the Associated Press that, "If it's this big and blowing with as much wind as it's got, it'll go all the way to the ocean before it stops ... We can save some stuff but we can't stop it."

...

The fires reportedly had destroyed at least 1,300 homes and businesses by Tuesday afternoon, and Gov. Arnold Schwarzenegger said 68,500 more homes and 2,200 more businesses are threatened.

Moody's Economy.com estimated the fires are costing the Southern California economy about $45 million a day from displaced residents unable to work, and $785 million in property damage from the 1,300 homes already burned, The Wall Street Journal reported in its online edition.If all 68,500 endangered homes were destroyed, the residential property damage would total $42 billion, the Journal reported.

:( :(

[babylonsister]

1. OMG! How many days in Iraq would * have to defer?

I'm not making light of the plight of Californians, but every figure I see with a "B" attached to it, I think of that other debacle.

[aquart]

2. Arnold says they were ready. Were they?

How long did it take to call the National Guard up from the border? How many are still in Iraq? Arnold dismissed the question that having planes available as soon as the wind dropped for moment on Monday might have been useful. Would they?

[wtmusic]

4. Although it's easy to see this tragedy in 20/20 hindsight

it's also obvious that CA wasn't ready. Nor are we ready for the impending "big one" earthquake, which everyone knows is coming but the state is doing very little about.

[jody]

3. Natural catastrophes will occur and no government will ever be prepared to deal with total disaster

It doesn't matter what political party in in power.

[havocmom]

6. Yep. No way to prepare for such wide-scale destruction.

But, this is one way for a real-estate based economy to take a step back from the total collapse it was very close to. Yeah, I am that cynical. I put nothing past some of the people running things in America today.

Think of all the new building... all the about-to-be defaulted mortgages paid off by insurance $$... all the change in expectations

Were any of the early fires in this storm found to have originated from natural causes? Yes, I know fire begets fire, but were any of the original fires started by forces not related to human activity?

Seriously, I have to wonder, because when I lived there for most of my younger life, most of the fires during the Santa Ana season were started by a few people who let the wind compound their pyromaniac ways. Now, I see how there could be some people who would actually benefit by such horrible disaster.

And, were were the very first fires in this year's season? I read about the community where Blackwater wants to put their new head quarters. Seems the local pols who agreed were facing a recall election and the balloting would be by mail, due to the rural nature of the area. Lots of fire there in the early days of this season. And the post office burned down.

No government can really prepare for destruction of this magnitude, but one wonders about governments that make war on innocent people for monetary reasons, like what has happened in Iraq. One wonders who else such a government might target for profit.

[jody]

12. Agree there is a strong possibility that one or more fires were set for insurance purposes hoping

to be covered up in the bigger disaster.

[Elspeth]

14. You really think this might have been deliberately set here in SD?

I just got a picture of a bunch of realtors taking a match to dry brush in Ramona...

[havocmom]

17. Blackwater connection with one fire area. I rule NOTHING out

nothing.

[havocmom]

19. There has always been arson problems when the winds blow

Some people get off on fire for fire's sake.

Some of the worst years for fires there were instigated by humans goin up the highways...

[DangerDave921]

18. LOL

Is there no end to the paranoia on here??? Is everything part of the grand scheme of corporate america/Bush/Cheney/Haliburton to take over the world?

[havocmom]

21. So far, bush/cheney has ALWAYS been bad beyond my paranoid nightmares

Always ask: who stands to gain?

And there is little doubt some of the original fires were human started.

[SpiralHawk]

26. Yes it does - republicons will find a way to profit from disaster, for themselves

Dems will just plain help

[AnneD]

5. And after the fires....

come the mudslides.....

[havocmom]

7. In the period between the fire storms and the mudslides, come rodents and snakes

Something which comes as a surprise to many is the movement of dislocated wildlife. Rodents that had foods stored then burned out move to where they can get food quick. That is generally around where there are humans.

Snakes follow the rodents.

Makes for some very unpleasant (and sometimes, unhealthy) situations.

Fire season - rodent and snake season - then rainy season taking down bare hillsides

I heard there was an earthquake early this AM too.

The only surprise is that some whack-job fundy preacher hasn't been mouthing off about it all being the fault of homosexuals, feminists, and pagans.

[AnneD]

11. The seasons of So. Cal...

fire, rat, snake, rainy, and mudslide with an occasional earthquake thrown in.....

I don't think you need a whack-job fundy preacher to damn you to hell. Sounds like you've got it going on all on your own.:pals:

[havocmom]

16. Grew up & started family in So. Calif. Left in '78

It really is a remarkable place and there is much I miss. But, too much pavement for my earth lovin soul.

What a lot of folks in other areas don't realize is just how much REALLY rugged terrain there is to deal with in Southern California. Firefighting there IS hell.

[AnneD]

23. Oops...My apologies...

as if on cue up pops the rw whack job fundy preacher...

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=389x2127364

[havocmom]

28. No apology needed. Thanks for the links to Phelps' BS, Yep, right on cue!

What a bunch of sick puppies those twits are.

[krispos42]

24. Fred Phelps has answered the call, I hear

It was on another GD post. Oh, and San Diego is a military town, too. I'm sure that will be a factor somehow.

God, I wish it had been Phelps that had died of auto-erotic asphyxiation while wearing two wetsuits, rubber undies, and a dilso up the ass instead of that pastor in Alabama.

[havocmom]

29. Thanks for much needed giggle, krispos42

Really shouldn't laugh about that unfortunate preacher pal of Falwell's demise, but, damn, I just can't help myself. Every time I think about those details...

:rofl:

[krispos42]

30. Oh, no problem. I'm serious, though

They protested the funeral of my boss' nephew, who died in Iraq last March. Check out my Journal for the details, but the local fire and sanitation departments, as well as the Patriot Guard Riders, formed a barricade to keep them out of sight of the services.

God, I would LOVE to have the police bust in on James Dobson having hot kinky gay sex with Fred Phelps in some public restroom someplace. With a "Cops" camera crew there.

[havocmom]

31. I hear ya on the subject of the jerks' disruption of funerals

When our tiny community lost our first victim to that war, Phelps had not yet started up with his crap. Commenting on his activities at or around funerals, the mother of our fallen neighbor said if he had done that here, she would have given him both barrels... literally.

Told her she'd have been shooting at a man already on the ground cuz her neighbors would have already taken action, and since most of them have their shotguns in their trucks, where she would have had to go get one from her home... And the people here about are very GOP, very churchy, very much the folks Phelps thinks of as supporters. They don't support him. Not one bit. Hell, all the pastors around here would probably have done a quickie prayer over the man then kept their mouths shut when the locals dropped him into the ground somewhere out in the wilderness. Phelps? nah, he never showed up...

The mother said she was sorry Phelps didn't show up at her son's funeral, as it was early in the war and would have saved a lot of families the added pain of him and his flunkies showing up when they buried their loved ones.

It is heartening that so many people will show up to prevent Phelps from getting near grieving families. Gives me hope, that as a people, we CAN come together to work on what is broken in America.

[krispos42]

32. Like I frequently say...

I hope Phelps meets Jesus soon, preferably via a flaming car wreck.

[porphyrian]

8. Prevention is always cheaper - they need to do controlled burns.

I understand that there are differences between that region and the Southeast where we use controlled burning on a regular basis, but no one can tell me it's cheaper to pay over forty billion dollars each year than to research and implement controlled burning as a means of reducing the buildup of fuel which, combined with the Santa Ana winds, causes this to happen.

[Roland99]

9. But with such a wide area to cover, is it really feasible/practical?

Esp. considering chances of arson out there.

Although I believe it was the Magic Fire that was started by construction workers.

[porphyrian]

10. Is it more feasable/practical to pay forty billion dollars a year in cleanup?

It's absolutely practical and feasible, especially if you do the math.

[Roland99]

22. True...but as always in gov't, it's easier to justify cleanup/repair vs. prevention

Just look at the bridge collapse in MN.

[porphyrian]

25. That's what they do, but that doesn't make it right.

I'm surprised the insurance companies aren't out there fighting tooth and nail for controlled burning.

[Roland99]

13. UPDATE: Email from my friend in Oceanside...not good. not good at all

The fire lines for San Diego County stretch intermittently for at least 100
miles north to south then over into Mexico. The Santa Ana winds are high
speed, dry (humidity as low as 4% at the coast) and HOT. The reason is the
circle of mountains surrounding us are hit by the winds which coming over
the top then curve down to the surface (similar to going over an airplane
wing) increasing the wind speeds at the bottom and causing a 'compression'
of the air that heats it up to over 100 F deg. This has been going on since
about Saturday or earlier and the winds (in this case) broke power lines
causing fires. The result is the fire burns sideways and the winds take
small embers and ash for not only feet but sometimes a mile or so before
dropping it into different terrain and dry material ready to burn. Area
between still is burning and the fire people were not able to fly with
retardant in those conditions until Monday. That being said, remember there
is a lot of property and burnables remaining unburned until later.

The winds reduced yesterday so the air attack could help put out the new
fires ahead of the previous as they started. Remember the first fires are
still burning.

Last night a phenomenon called the 'marine layer', air from over the ocean
started moving in over the coastline as it usually does. This cooled 'some'
things but caused other problems as the east and west winds mixed and you
couldn't tell which way the fires would move. This is a called a reburn.
Not all of the area got this...only the coast....and all of the huge fires
are raging about 18 fires in the county.

This morning there are two new fires on Camp Pendleton closing I-5 from
Oceanside to San Clemente for a view hours as this is written. I-5 traffic
is being moved over two lane highway to I-15, if you can only imagine that
mess. So the winds are mixing this morning and will turn to westerly all day
with a return of the marine layer tonight.

Evacuees are being allowed to go see if their homes exist in the westerly
areas deemed safe, and the eastern portions of the county remain unsafe to
return. It appears the 'initial run' of fire is ending so containment can
be accomplished by early the first week of November and extinguishing the
blazes much later (hoping for no return of the Santa Ana's until then).
Normal conditions are really nice here when they come. This is a very
unusual time as you can see.

Many of our friends have been affected with the loss of homes or in other
ways that are costly and need your prayers.

The secondary effects of something like this are being shown as the
officials plead for more and more reductions of energy use due to downed or
out of service power lines. Gas supplies are short as re-supply of all
types of items is hard to accomplish with closed roadways. Those areas not
affected directly are impacted by not being able to travel to work or other
appointments, communications reaching their limits at times especially with
cell phones and evacuees trying to find a place to stay, eat or get where
they can feed their needs.

You 'may' be able to find out the changing details at these sites:
www.sdcountyemergency.com or www.kusi.com (click on their continuing
coverage) or go to ABC-TV sites for their coverage.

I think the unseen hurting impact after the obvious losses are those who
live on an hourly pay scale, can't go to work plus don't know when they can
go back or 'if' the job will still be there when this is over.

It is truly an amazing thing there is no more loss of life than has been and
this is due to the lessons learned by officials after the fires of four
years ago. One example:

The county put a call out to homeowners which tells you to 'get out now'
type of message and was used extensively. The fire began near Julian (just
evacuated this morning) and ran toward Ramona as it did in 2003. An
immediate evac. order was given for the city of 36,000 and they were told of
the three ways to get out....use the westerly two lane road toward
Escondido, past the San Diego Zoo's Wild Animal Park. About an hour or two
later into this a power transformer 'blew' starting another fire. Everyone
got out without incident, depending on your view of what you call an
incident in a situation like this. This example occurred repeatedly for the
past 3 fire days and continues this today.

Again thanks for your interest and prayers for everyone here. Remember the
people north of us in California too as this is a truly large scale series
of events that stretch for a couple hundred miles of Southern California.

Yes...Camp Pendleton, the U.S. Marine base north of San Diego, is in danger.

[wicket]

15. Thoughts and prayers for all of those affected

So sad :(

[ElsewheresDaughter]

20. but...but...the FEMA man keeps saying "we're waiting for the weather to change"....heck of a job !

[SoCalDem]

27. Don't forget too.. they keep asking us to pray for a weather change

:eyes: