American Kids, Dumber Than Dirt (Next Generation Might Be Biggest Pile of Idiots in U.S. History)

[Hissyspit]

http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/g/a/2007/10/24/notes102407.DTL&feed=rss.mmorford

American kids, dumber than dirt
Warning: The next generation might just be the biggest pile of idiots in U.S. history
By Mark Morford, SF Gate Columnist

Wednesday, October 24, 2007

I have this ongoing discussion with a longtime reader who also just so happens to be a longtime Oakland high school teacher, a wonderful guy who's seen generations of teens come and generations go and who has a delightful poetic sensibility and quirky outlook on his life and his family and his beloved teaching career.

And he often writes to me in response to something I might've written about the youth of today, anything where I comment on the various nefarious factors shaping their minds and their perspectives and whether or not, say, EMFs and junk food and cell phones are melting their brains and what can be done and just how bad it might all be.

His response: It is not bad at all. It's absolutely horrifying.

My friend often summarizes for me what he sees, firsthand, every day and every month, year in and year out, in his classroom. He speaks not merely of the sad decline in overall intellectual acumen among students over the years, not merely of the astonishing spread of lazy slackerhood, or the fact that cell phones and iPods and excess TV exposure are, absolutely and without reservation, short-circuiting the minds of the upcoming generations. Of this, he says, there is zero doubt.

Nor does he speak merely of the notion that kids these days are overprotected and wussified and don't spend enough time outdoors and don't get any real exercise and therefore can't, say, identify basic plants, or handle a tool, or build, well, anything at all. Again, these things are a given. Widely reported, tragically ignored, nothing new.

No, my friend takes it all a full step — or rather, leap — further. It is not merely a sad slide. It is not just a general dumbing down. It is far uglier than that.

We are, as far as urban public education is concerned, essentially at rock bottom. We are now at a point where we are essentially churning out ignorant teens who are becoming ignorant adults and society as a whole will pay dearly, very soon, and if you think the hordes of easily terrified, mindless fundamentalist evangelical Christian lemmings have been bad for the soul of this country, just wait.

It's gotten so bad that, as my friend nears retirement, he says he is very seriously considering moving out of the country so as to escape what he sees will be the surefire collapse of functioning American society in the next handful of years due to the absolutely irrefutable destruction, the shocking — and nearly hopeless — dumb-ification of the American brain. It is just that bad.

MORE

[monmouth]

1. Thank you television....aaarrgh.

[Clark2008]

18. I think the culprit is overworked parents, myself.

My son is incredibly intelligent (and that's not a bias - he is. The teacher's fight to see who'll get him in class. He's never made below an "A" on a report card and, sadly, he's incredibly bored in school, but I digress) and he watches television.

However, he also reads books, because I do and children mirror what they're taught and what they see. He is encouraged to be inquisitive. Our vacations are more educational than just fun (they're fun, too, mind you). He plays outdoors because we're outdoors a lot. Yes, he also plays video games, but he also plays science and Discovery games online.

With both parents having to work, too many errands to run, and too little time to relax - it's hard for parents to spend time teaching their children - or learning enough about the world around them to teach their children.

Viscous little cycle.

[GrpCaptMandrake]

35. That's the source of a lot of our troubles

It's why we can't surround the White House and the Capitol for weeks on end. We have mortgages and car payments and insurance premiums and that behemoth flatscreen to pay for.

We think the Olive Garden is "Italian Cuisine" and Rachel Ray is a "chef." We think television delivers "news" and "reality."

Poor families on foodstamps feed their kids on $3/day and hope for the best. Guess what! A hungry kid is a kid who isn't learning.

Dumb breeds dumb and peasants breed peasants, no matter how shiny the new SUV.

More divorces happen over money problems than any other single cause.

Empirical data suggests that almost every woman of child-bearing age in America has enough mercury in her system to account for no less than a 10 point decrease in her child's IQ. There are rocket fuel components in her breast milk.

Mike Judge's film "Idiocracy" is looking a lot less like a screwball comedy and a lot more like prophecy.

We're screwed.



Get On The H.O.R.N.!
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[Ellen Forradalom]

143. Thanks for making that observation gender-neutral

Too often commenting on overworked, harried families devolves into mommy-bashing. I appreciate your keeping the focus on economic reality.

[roguevalley]

164. I agree with him about kids not knowing much these days. Its

scary. One of the reasons I retired from teaching.

[Beerboy]

2. That's a Good thing, right?

We have endless trillions to spend on a bullshit war while schools and libraries go without books. Thank god the government spent on education back in the 60s-70s more than they spent on their bombs.
Recommended.

[Orsino]

43. It's a great thing for a candidate trying to run on the GOP platform.

Not half-bad for Dems, either.

[Virginia Dare]

71. Keeping the masses ignorant....n/t

[Kutjara]

3. AHM SCHURR AH'D IGREE WID CHOO...

...IF"N I NOO WUTCHOO WUZ TAWKN ABOOT.


n'edut: pur punktewayshun.

[Skidmore]

4. Don't mock the kids when the adults sat around and whined about

paying taxes while trying to live the lives of the rich and famous so that schools could not be kept in proper repair or have current textbooks and good teachers. Don't descry those children when the adults have decided they don't need no stinkin' scienc or history other than whatever can be gleaned from the Bible. Don't scorn those children because the leaders of the nation were too busy trying to create a debtor's nation and parents of middle and lower class kids have been forced to work multiple jobs to make ends meet.

No, the buck stops with the adults and their buying into conspicuous consumption as patriotism. It stops with the leaders of the nation and communities who sold the free trader BS so they and their buddies could line their pockets. The common welfare has not been addressed for sometime. A lot of greed has gone over the dam and a whole generation has been left behind.

[Disturbed]

6. There will be some happy people regarding this.

Politicians love ignorant people. Multi-Corps will outsource high tech jobs & in source people with knowledge, skill & high IQs. Millions of Americans will be the Working Poor. The Govt. will be fine with that.

[malaise]

15. Bingo n/t

[Skidmore]

19. Yes, indeed. The biggest excuse for outsourcing and the creation

of an enslavement of undocumented workers now is that there aren't enough trained or educated workers or we refuse to do the work. AND I'm sick of the party that traditionally represented workers excusing and facilitating this.

[seabeyond]

21. reading the post.... i am looking to the parent and adults

thru out op. you said it well.

i look at what my kids know today and it is so much more than what i did at their age. i look at the school and they are teaching more than ever before. but then on the other hand, in raising my children i am fighting hard against some of the things the poster stated and i see many children (nieces and nephews) that are exactly what is being said in op

[leftchick]

36. It is a struggle

I am adamant my boys will not have video game stations, tvs in their rooms and cell phones as long as they live in my home. They read every night before bed and take music lessons. Naturally, on some days, I am a horrible mother for all of this because none of their friends go without. :(

[seabeyond]

45. pARENTS. johnny bravo, ed ed eddie, power girls, sponge bob

any show that honored stupid or angry/pissed wasnt allowed. it got to the point of cartoon network and disney channel wasnt watched in this house. we went a good couple years without kids even turning on tv. now it is history channel, a & e, animal planet or tv land, and that is it on what the boys watch. i no longer have to monitor them. they willingly do it themselves. and movies. i was particular for years what they watched. then if something inappropriate we discussed and was used in learning

since they could communicate my rule has been, no tv in bedroom, no other game things except computer pc games, and yes.... no cell phone, lol lol.

sunday thru thurs my kids have between half hour to hour reading time

current times, smithsonian, and national geographic sits on our dining room table for the kids to wander in, sit and read. thinking, intellectualism, communicating and expressing has not only been encouraged... but i would allow nothing less and because it has always been, they could do no less

i do, squarely put the responsibility of the children on parents shoulders

perfection? not going to happen. another of our wonderful lesson. i willingly share my imperfection. allowing them to honor theirs. a saying in this house, perfectly imperfect. and.... we always try.

[knitter4democracy]

52. I'm right there with you.

We don't allow video games in the house at all, there will be no cell phones, and our house has only one tv which I control. They lose that on a regular basis for not getting chores done or fighting or whatever, too.

I need to get them into music lessons, though. I'm trying to save up for a piano. They got a guitar from some friends (who already do piano and violin) and are having a ball with that. It looks like it's time for music lessons.

[leftchick]

74. my 12 1/2 yr old son has taken piano since he was six

He practices every morning before school for half an hour and it is the highlight of my day. Sadly he is really pushing to quit after this year. I really want him to continue through high school. More power struggles ahead. :(

My younger son has taken guitar lessons at school for three years now and he loves it. They have a friend who plays drums so we may have a neighborhood band soon. :)

[knitter4democracy]

100. Mine are seven and five and just now starting to be interested.

I took piano up through eighth grade and quit when my teacher was pushing me to be competitive. I just wanted to play for fun, not competition, so I quit and poured myself into my flute in band instead. That piano background really, really helped, though, and now that the kids have the guitar, it helps that I took lessons for a year or so in high school.

Hubby misses his tuba from high school and college, I need to get out my flute more, and if we can get one of the kids to do violin or piano, we'll have our own weird band. :)

[Blue_In_AK]

130. I'm convinced that music lessons really help kids

especially with math. My youngest daughter started piano lessons when she was not quite five. She was already reading by then but couldn't start school because of when her birthday fell, so I started her in piano to give her a challenge. She played all the way through school and not only became an excellent pianist but also excelled in math up through advanced calculus. She sure didn't get that math brain from me. :rofl:

[tammywammy]

169. I played the cello from elementary through high school

I sucked at math. :)

Playing an instrument does give a greater appreciation to the arts that a lot of children (and adults) seem to lack these days.

I still have my cello, and I always say "my kids will play it god dammit." Well, I want them to either pick up the cello or piano or guitar or really any instrument (though whenever I do have kids, I'll steer them away from drums. :))

[Blue_In_AK]

173. I have to laugh at the drums

My little five-year-old grandson wanted drums last year for Christmas, so we got him a little kid drum set with the bass, a couple of snares, and the cymbals, the works. My daughter and son in law are musicians, so they set his drum set up in the music room with all the guitars and the piano, etc. The last time I was over there, Colton wanted to play for me, and oh my God, did he crack me up. He went into a full-on John Bonham-type drum solo, complete with the rock 'n' roll face. I never saw anything quite so funny. He's a natural. :)

[tammywammy]

175. That's awesome

My nephew (6 years old) is taking piano lessons and I'm surprised how good he's gotten.

I'm very much pro musical education with kids...but I still don't know if I could take a child with drums every day. :)

[Hondadriver]

122. I applaud you chick

Many parents give in to the "all my friends have it" guilt trip that kids are so good at doing. My personal opinion is not so much that kids are dumber but simply lazy and have fallen into the instant gratification mentality that this country has moved towards.

Video games, computers, tv's in their rooms has also contributed to the obesity situation we now face. I can remember as a kid I was always outside doing something, riding my bike, skateboarding, swimming, basketball, football, baseball, tag, etc...

I think its all part of the issues our kids face today.

[LanternWaste]

127. I wish there were more horrible mothers out there like you...

I'm surprised you're not getting the sobriquet of "authoritarian" or "Nazi" from the thread. Happy, but not surprised.

I wish there were more horrible mothers out there like you... :)

[leftchick]

153. gee thanks

:)

This week my almost thirteen year old is laying is on HEAVY asking for a playstation for Christmas. I caught him looking at a flier with games listed and asked him why he was torturing himself. It isn't going to happen, ever. You should have seen the dirty look he gave me. Yep, I am an old meanie.

[midlife_mo_Jo]

176. My kids have a playstation

They play with their dad, so it's actually a positive thing here. They have a lot of fun together, and it's the one thing they can all do despite the wide variety of ages in our family.

It's also off limits on school nights.

As for me, I refuse to play. Can't stand the stuff - LOL - but I recognize that it's not anything I need to forbid here.

[artemisia1]

189. I understand your positon, BUT...

I understand your point and your position. Priorities are priorities and there are FAR too many American children spending far too much time on electronic devices such as video games and cell phones. However; I think you should consider a few things. One, objects denied take on a far greater value and importance than they otherwise would or should. Two, one extreme shouldn't lead to another - just because many are abusing video games at the expense of truly important things, doesn't mean that this has to necessarily be so. Third, you can control the priorities in your home. Some time with video games should be fine, and even healthy, provided the homework, chores and socialization (an obviously crucial part of development) are done.

Question:

Given that you can control the amount and scheduling of such play (and play IS a necessary part of childhood), is it possible that your inflexible stance on this issue may be more a function of your personal desire to sound wise and caring and less of genuine concern for the child? I don't know (can't tell from the Internet), but this is a legitimate question to ask yourself.

Video game play at the expense of life and schoolwork is a curse; a bit here and there is not POISON and can be part of a normal childhood. I played the Atari 2600 back in the early 1980's. I also finished a year of college during high school (night classes) (and entered University a year early as a sophomore when my classmates were Seniors in High School) and consistently made Honor Roll at both.

[AnneD]

162. I was/am a terrible mom....

My daughter has taken oboe since the 5th grade. She tried to quit and lazy useless ex (that's another story)wanted to be a pal instead of a parent and sided with her. I put my foot down and told her that after I had invested in the instrument she would play it through high school and after that I didn't give a rat's ass what she did. As a compromise, I let play other instruments :evilgrin:. My evil plot worked. She will graduate from the High School for the Preforming and Visual Arts this year. She is fantastic in math, English, speaks 2 1/2 languages, has been in a band, formed her own band, organized fundraisers and projects, and heads up several campus organizations. In her spare time she has a part time job, maintains an A-B average, and is tracking down scholarships.

Yeah, I'm a terrible mother. When she you call me that I'd always tell her "Great, at least you and Oprah would have something to talk about".:rofl:

[Ilsa]

28. Ahhh-men! I love this sentence:

"...the buck stops with the adults and their buying into conspicuous consumption as patriotism."

[mdelaguna2000]

90. Bra -----vo.

[izzie]

5. I think this has been said since people were on earth

Ever heard the calls on c-span? And many are from old people. I am sure their is a percent of the pop. at any age that is pretty well un-read or know what is going on. Plus you also judge it from what you think is important. This is just a general comment as I also think history of our country is pretty low but then in high school I recall how much people hated history. Since I liked it it was a thing I would think about. In the years I had kids home I do not recall being to much into what our govt. was doing ot reading a lot yet it has been sort of sitting on the back burner of my thinking all my life. I just did not have the time. Lets hope they will use their brains when the time comes that they have to.

[LeftCoast]

7. Yup

Thankfully, I don't have a lot of interaction with kids but when I do, I'm generally impressed with how bright they are.

[Toots]

51. No I don't think so

It was not that long ago when a majority of people in the USA could not read, never attended school or if they did, they did not complete elementary school. They had to work, work the fields and the farms with their parents. It has only been since the 20th century that school became manditory. Up through the fifties education was considered extremely desirable. That thought process has changed. People don't feel the desire for knowlege they once did. Remember the stories about people like Abe Lincoln that walked miles to obtain books to read and stayed up late at night reading by candle light. Now kids won't even walk to the video arcade to play space invaders, they ride their bikes or skate boards. I doubt kids even know what a Library is in this day and age. Education is simply not important to the kids today, not to mention the fact that the schools have changed the grading system to show better progress than a few years ago would have tolerated. When I went to school anything under 70% was failing, now 70% is a C..

[alcibiades_mystery]

80. Total bullshit

You have an idealized view of history, an idealized view of the history of education in America, and a condescending view of students today. I work with students every day, and none bear any resemblance to your description.

You can find precisely these kinds of statements in many tracts about education from the late-19th century. The contempt heaped upon Harvard (yes, Harvard!) freshmen by the "kids are so dumb these days" polemicists of the 1890's is both comical and instructive. There were massive educational reforms in the 1920's justified on the basis of precisely these arguments. You simply do not know what you're talking about.

[yodermon]

99. Seriously. DUers are so dumb these days. n/t

[girl gone mad]

8. Technology is fantastic..

I know homeschoolers often get attacked around here, but we homeschool out son and couldn't be happier about it. This year he's doing college trig, chem II, and he just started studying anatomy using the textbook and lectures from UC Berkeley on Youtube (he really likes it). He knows how to use tools - he's been building his own robots for several years now. He took a homeschool biology class last year and they spent every single class outdoors studying plants and animals in a nature preserve.

Of course, I still think he plays too many video games, but they're pretty complex. Studies I've seen say they sharpen the reflexes and improve coordination.

Oh, and I think public school is salvageable. Our next door neighbor goes to a magnet school and he's incredibly bright. I don't think the country is going to fall apart, though I do believe the divide between the technically adept and the luddites will continue to grow.

[Beerboy]

10. Why do you hate America?

n/t.

[lvx35]

11. Robotics is great for kids.

I was working with a teacher on it, and the robots she was working with taught really young kids all about the algorithm designs that are essential in computer work of any kind. Very cool.

[Clark2008]

20. I don't find the public school system all that horrid.

My son's school is small, though, so there might be more time alloted to the personal education of each children. For example, there are only 13 kids in my son's class - far less than the national average of nearly 30.

And, I live in the South.

I guess it depends on precisely where you live, down to the neighborhood, as to the quality of the school.

[Arkansas Granny]

62. I don't have children in the school system now, but when I did, I

didn't find it horrid either. They had excellent teachers even though they attended one of the poorest school districts in town. A lot of their learning came from outside the classroom, however, as I showed them how to apply what they had learned to real life situations. I considered their childhood has a training period for me to show them the things they needed to know to be able to take care of themselves when they left home. Parents have got to get involved in the learning process and not leave it all up to the schools.

[NewJeffCT]

53. I agree with you

I think the gap between those that live in towns with good public schools and those that do not will continue to grow. In the near future, you'll probably find many of the top colleges & universities filled with kids that either attended the same elite private schools or were lucky enough to live in wealthy towns that could afford top notch public schools.

Right now, if kids in average public schools work really hard and are at, or near, the top of the class, they still have a chance to get into an Ivy League level school. I think those chances will become fewer and more far between as we continue on this national course.

[JTFrog]

9. I hate that I watched Idiocracy again.

The first time my kids watched it, I blew it off as another stupid teen movie. The second time I made the mistake of paying attention. :cry:

[girl gone mad]

22. "It's got what plants crave." n/t

[Bigmack]

54. It's a documentary of our future. nt

[Cooley Hurd]

158. This season on Fox: "Ow! My Balls!"

:evilfrown:

[JTFrog]

166. The Japanese

already beat em to it!!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UlAkOhH9eek

[Stand and Fight]

183. It's got electrolytes!

Now try some EXTRA BIG ASS FRIES! :cry:

[TheMightyFavog]

12. Screw the smart kids...

Let's heap our praise on those good at sports. No matter how dumb they be.

I'm all for the separation School of Sports. Let's get intermural sports out of our schools and move them into private clubs like they do in Europe.

[LanternWaste]

131. I think sports, like all extra-curricular activities are healthy for the kids

I think sports, like all extra-curricular activities are healthy for the kids and for the community. I'd hate to have spent my HS days without Band or Drama. How high in regard the parents and the boosters hold it, and the priorities they put on it is a different story

We should realize that it's sports, music, cheer leading, et. al. that give a lot of students the only satisfaction and /or solace they get throughout the day.

[Canuckistanian]

13. Chilling. A future nation of Golgafrinchams

Clueless, ignorant and easily frightened people are fun to watch on movies.

But they make horrifying voting citizens and community leaders.

[JCMach1]

14. STUPID KIDZ! Give me a break...

Students are basically the same. In some ways they are better prepared... behind in others.

This is one of those remember the good ol' days of education articles... only such a golden time never really existed...

Other typical articles begin

-before they took prayer out of schools
-before desegregation (or at least an reference to this)
-etc.

The truth: Secondary and Primary school education in the States has always been mediocre at best.

[zeemike]

16. i understand what he is saying

I grew up in the 50s and it was a different time then. We did get TV in the late 50s but it only came on at 5pm with a 15 minute news program and went off the air at 10. But before that we only had radio and most kids played outside until dark and then came in to hear there favorite program like The Shadow or Gunsmoke. Most of our entertainment we made ourselves like games of Kick the Can.But all of our entertainment was physical activity, and in the summertime when there was no school we would ride our bikes all over town and country travailing miles and would only come home when we were hungry. Our parents never worried about where we were or that we would come to some harm.
I remember one thing in school that stuck with me and that was that every week we got a little news paper called "My weekly Reader" and it was all about current events, and it instilled in me an interest in what went on in the world.
As I grew older books became my entertainment sense there was so little TV to watch. I can remember when I was 13 discovering that I had read every science fiction book in the library and had to find something new and the librarian suggested The Yearling.
The point is that although the schools only taught the basics, no art and little music we were engaged with nature and the world at large, unlike today where the children are holed up in the fortress of home and are afraid of the outside world (or is it that the parents are afraid for them)
And that is no way to raise a healthy society, and if we can we should get back to the basics and let kids have an adventure in life and not be imprisoned by fear.

[bdamomma]

48. geez, I remember Weekly Readers, great little source of information.

showing my age perhaps.

[zeemike]

94. Yes they were

And I can remember looking forward to getting them every week and the teacher letting us read them in class with our morning half pint of milk.

[knitter4democracy]

57. My kids get Weekly Reader and love it.

They run around and play outside. My son digs holes all over my yard, thinking he's a farmer and planting whatever seeds he's saved up from our food (I've tried explaining that they won't grow, but he's adamant in trying). My kids watch tv, true, but they read and play outside and ride their bikes around the cul-de-sac. Some of us are trying to keep to an older way of keeping kids as kids and not put so much on them.

We also switched to the public school from the Catholic school this year, which has really helped. My daughter in first grade last year had at least a half hour's homework every night last year plus bigger projects all the time, and the stress was really getting to her. In her new school, she doesn't have nearly as much homework and is doing a lot better.

[zeemike]

92. Sounds like you are on the right track

And I know how hard it is to do that today. But your kids will benefit from it greatly I am sure.

[knitter4democracy]

102. I hope so. Sometimes I worry I don't push them enough.

All the other moms of their friends have their kids scheduled to the gills with two sports, music lessons, art lesson and more. No wonder they end up at our house digging in my yard on off days. ;)

I should get the kids in music lessons now and maybe one sport. It's just all so nasty these days--all based on competition and getting college scholarships for elementary aged kids. Ugh.

[Midlodemocrat]

17. I don't believe this for a minute.

[Cobalt Violet]

23. Mission Accomplished.

The righties have wanted this for decades.

[Old and In the Way]

24. I'd be hard pressed to do the schoolwork my kids have now.

They will have a different future than I had, no question. But I think this generation is capable of adapting to the brave new world that is always unique for every human in every society.

[seabeyond]

25. i stopped even trying my sons math in 6th grade. it is dads to do

and i am good with numbers. i agree the schools are giving the kids more and different stuff than our days.

there are points in the op. such as not picking up tools. "work" ethic. but all this has to do with a parent spending time. and the education is there available to the kid, again has to do with the parent being a part.

but, my 4th grader takes care of all my computer issues. i dont even try to understand and will call him in to do things i need done with my computer. that is something my generation never learned.

the parents that are connected and involved with their children will find the op so far off the mark. on the other hand, i think there is a large chunk of our children population where i see so much of this. maybe it always has been. maybe it is a larger chunk than in the past. maybe with the more single parent homes and two working adult homes it is inevitable.

[Arkansas Granny]

26. The most valuable thing you can spend on your children is your time.

As a single working mother of four I can tell you that time was about all I had to spend on my kids after providing housing, food and clothing. When we were not at work or school we were generally together. Since there wasn't anything in the budget for entertainment, we had to make our own. The older ones helped me take care of their younger siblings and they all had chores to do because I could not do it all by myself. I always felt that my job was to teach them the skills they would need to become responsible and functioning adults and to be able to make good decisions when they left home to be on their own. My kids weren't perfect, by any means, and I made my share of mistakes with them, but they are now all grown and working and raising families of their own.

I'm not trying to downplay the role of public or private education in the life of a child, but regardless of the school your children attend, the television shows that air or what society as a whole presents them with, parents must get involved with their children on a very basic level. This means more than providing them with transportation to the mall or sporting events etc. or buying them the latest in electronics or fashion. It means reading to them when they are small, engaging with them in family activities, knowing their friends, and preparing them to be adults. Some of the best education your children will learn comes from outside the classroom.

[seabeyond]

29. you are so right on. yes, lets

"downplay the role of public or private education in the life of a child"

because we have allowed it to replace our role as parent and family, and it cannot willnot be done, unless the parent allows it. you are right on

[MedleyMisty]

27. I have an iPod

I listen to music on it.

I was not aware that listening to music melted my brain. I always thought music was intellectually stimulating. Darn.

Also, generally people talk to other people on cell phones. I don't think that talking to other people melts your brain either.

TV - depends on what you're watching.

[mondo joe]

87. My 12 and 10 year old listen to music on iPods too. They are also straight A students

who always take on extra credit to stay challenged. My older daughter got one of only 15 spots available in her class, baed on her essay, her record and interview. And we watch Project Runway too!

There are a bunch of Luddites and Puritans who think encountering any entertainment robs one of inteligence.

They're wrong.

[fasttense]

30. I find this hard to believe.

My two kids graduated from public high school one and three years ago. They are both doing well in college. One is a straight A student, and the other is an As and Bs student. They watched TV most of their lives, they use cell phones and all the other gadgets.

There were other kids in the public high school that were doing as well and better than my two. I have to wonder what school he is teaching at.

[whistle]

31. If our kids can hold, aim and fire automatic weapons, that is good enough

...for republicans :wtf: :sarcasm:

[Ilsa]

32. When Jay Leno started his "Jay-walking" segment ten years

ago, we had to stop watching the show. He would ask the simplest questions, and people were total out of touch morons, except when a pop culture question was asked. It was too depressing to watch before bedtime.

On the other hand, my friend's grown daughters are fine: one is starting med school a year ahead of schedule, and the other is in a PhD program on scholarship for something like biochemistry. They give me hope.

[rockymountaindem]

33. I'm convinced that "Jaywalking" is a setup

I'm not a fan of Leno but my parents are and when I'm home from school I see my share of Jaywalking episodes. I think that a lot of the answers that people give are so tangential to the question that there's no way someone so "dumb" as the people on Jaywalking would think of it. I think the answers are designed to be funny and surprising, but often I get the feeling that it would be harder for someone with supposedly little brainpower to come up with the fake answer than the real one.

It's just a gimmick to get the viewing audience to feel good about itself.

[SujiwanKenobee]

38. Ever been to the college board site (s) and checked out those kids?

When trying to get information about colleges and college prep or testing, I went to this site. I couldn't believe how intensely competitive these kids were, how high the scores were and all the activities in which they were involved and excelled. Parents also post on this site, btw. I had thought my kids were reasonably intelligent, though it appears they are way less academically aggressive than many of the kids posting.

My kids do not seem to see the value in reading as an activity. (I am a major reader for information.) The main issue at our house has been how much time is spent on the computer with interactive gaming versus going out in the world and finding what else there is that is interesting as either a hobby or as a potential career.

Perhaps fewer kids are living up to their potential with this electronic age? Don't know.

[mwb970]

64. Right, and bush isn't really an idiot.

There are many, many Americans exactly like those on "Jaywalking". To assume they must have been "coached" to appear stupid strikes me as a form of denial.

By the way, I find those segments too depressing to watch so I always skip them.

[rockymountaindem]

105. Well, I disagree

Not that there aren't plenty of fools out there but some of the stuff that crops up in that segment is so dumb that I think it's gone around the bend. They make the kind of connections that require, IMHO, a certain amount of thought to make that someone who is as dumb as they are supposed to be wouldn't make.

[Mojorabbit]

86. I don't think so

My niece and nephews are way behind in what I learned in school in the sixties. They can't spell. They have no idea of current events.Then again, my father had to take latin and German in middle and high school when he was a kid. I think he had a more well rounded education than I did esp in literature, math, and the classics. My niece spends all her time prepping for tests. It really worries me as she is really intelligent.

[Pithlet]

155. I think we don't see the many takes where people knew the answers.

They all get edited out. Ask enough people, and you'll run across dimbulbs. Easy to edit it to make it look like everyone is stupid. It's meant for our amusement, but I don't think we can draw any real conclusions from it.

[NewJeffCT]

56. Howard Stern started that before Leno

But, it's the same concept... and Stern would sometimes bring in young starlets and ask them similar questions:

Howard, "What's the capitol of New York?"
Tori Spelling, "Umm, New Jersey?"

However, I bet if you asked enough people in any major city in the world, you can find people that will give you dumb answers, be it London, Paris, Tokyo, Calcutta or whatnot.

[Arugula Latte]

138. I saw that a couple times (I gave up on Leno yeeears ago). The segment was supposed to be funny --

it made me want to curl up in a fetal position and weep.

[mainer]

34. They have a sense of entitlement, too

They think they're smart (because they've been told how great they are) over and over again. And they grow up thinking, of course, that America's the greatest nation on the planet and everyone in the world wants to come here. Most of them never travel outside the country. Most of them never read a book after high school.

[Le Taz Hot]

37. Kids are no dumber or smarter

than they've ever been. It's just that they're undereducated and there are too many shiny things (iPods, iPhones, TV, video games, etc.) competing for their attention. Added to that, we dumbed down the curriculum about 25 years ago and the result is people graduating college that can't tell the difference between "to," "two" and "too." I know. I've taught at the college level and had to read term papers. It was truly a scary scary experience.

Kids aren't stupid, the education system and their parents failed to do the job they were supposed to Now, if they're going to survive, they're going to have to play catch-up and get accustomed to life-long learning (which actually isn't such a bad thing).

[RandomKoolzip]

42. "...the result is people graduating college (that) can't tell the difference between"

You mean "WHO can't tell the difference," right?

[Le Taz Hot]

44. Oh, criminee!

It was like just after 5:00 am here -- cut me some slack, will ya? :P

[RandomKoolzip]

50. Sorry! Studying to be a copy editor...

Can't help it - I'm turning into a grammar Nazi in the process.

[knitter4democracy]

59. They do more in math, though.

My daughter's first grade math last year was years ahead of the math I had in first grade. Multiplication, division, fractions, even algebraic concepts, which really surprised me.

As for writing, the emphasis in the lower grades is on content, not mechanics. We'll probably swing the other way on that soon and go back to drumming grammar rules in students' heads and making them diagram sentences. From what I'm seeing in my kids' elementary curriculum, they're just trying to get them writing as much as possible and leaving the rules until later.

[midlife_mo_Jo]

177. I know what you mean about math in first grade

"My daughter's first grade math last year was years ahead of the math I had in first grade. Multiplication, division, fractions, even algebraic concepts, which really surprised me."

This isn't necesarily a good thing. In countries where students truly excel in math, the curriculum is very limited the first few years while the students get the basics drilled into their little heads. Unfortunately, that's not nearly as "fun" as all the charts, graphs, geometry, algebra, etc. that our children do here in the U.S. We seem to have an attitude that math must be as meaningful and fun as possible even for a seven year old, but I don't think that results in higher test scores at age twelve.

[knitter4democracy]

180. I entirely agree.

If we followed the Saxon curriculum, we'd do a lot better, I think. They worry about concepts when they should worry about skills more.

[GrpCaptMandrake]

39. Without a doubt

Mark Morford is, and has been for awhile, the single best "liberal" columnist in America.

It's a pity he's not in every major market (and a lot of lesser ones) in the country.




Get On The H.O.R.N.!
America's Liberal Voice
www.headonradionetwork.com
and
iTunes Radio (Talk/Spoken Word)

[L. Coyote]

40. What a crock.

[Bluerthanblue]

I agree- if our kids are failures, what does that make us?

can't blame the kids for who they are-

And the teacher who inspired this column needs to ask himself what he is doing wrong.

Every generation seems to delight in talking about what a waste of humanity is following them.

Shame on us, if this is indeed true.

Children are products of the society they grow up in.


boo- hiss Mr. Morford-

don't recall reading you before, but if this is an indication, not sure I've missed much.

[Pithlet]

69. I agree. n/t

[Malikshah]

41. Brawndo! It's go what bodies crave!!!

ELECTROLYTES!!!

[Rosa Luxemburg]

46. respect

the difference is that these days there is a great lack of respect (and ignorance).

[Bluerthanblue]

70. I'd say it's more a lack of purpose- meaning- hope.

What is there to work towards?

The planet is trashed, the govt a joke, the world a hostile mess.

Society blames kids for who they are-

Did any of them ASK to be here?

The kids are told that we are faced with never ending war- unavoidable bankruptcy- overpopulation- super diseases- Unstoppable Global Warming- broken infrastructures- depleted fossil fuels- nuclear proliferation- corporate slavery- etc. etc. etc.

What a wonderful inheritance....????? :nuke:

[bdamomma]

47. education opportunities down and expenses to go to college

are higher than ever, no wonder these kids are falling through the cracks, we have a disgusting regime lashing out at everyone.

[SmokingJacket]

49. I love Mark Morford, but.

I come from the least well-read generation ever: Generation X. No one read ANYTHING when I was in middle and high school -- after Judy Blume there just wasn't anything. No video games either. All we used to do was drive around and get in car wrecks.

But there are so many great kids' books now, and kids are reading them. When I visit friends with teenagers they're reading Eragon or the latest Harry Potter or Philip Pullman. They play a lot of video games, too, but that just seems to cut into the time they spend standing on the corner like we used do, or drinking beer at the state park.

I have a lot of hope for the future. My 10 year old brought home a baggie full of orange peels the other day -- someone had given him an orange and he wanted to keep the peels for our compost. :loveya:

[marmar]

60. No video games for Gen X?

Didn't you ever have an Atari or ColecoVision? I always had a video game console connected to my TV.

[SmokingJacket]

76. Oh, yeah, haha.

That's right, we did have some. I didn't personally, but I remember some friends had an Atari. It wasn't the all-consuming passion it has become, though.

[NewJeffCT]

61. I agree with you on that

I was born in 1966, so I'm almost 41. I graduated high school in 1985 and almost nobody in my high school would read books for pleasure. I could literally count on one hand those that did - there were a few nerdy boys like me that read Tolkien and similar fantasy/sci-fi novels and comic books, and there were a few girls that read romance novel type books (I remember Judy Blume being big). That was it. Nobody else read anything but the required books during the school year. It was honestly less than 10 in total.

Nowadays, kids read Harry Potter and other books, and with the advent of big book stores like Borders and Barnes & Noble that allow you to sit and read, reading has seen a resurgence over the last 10-12 years or so.

[Arkansas Granny]

68. My kids were born between 1967 and 1976. They were all

voracious readers. I read to them every day from the time they were big enough to sit in my lap. When they started school I was at the used book store at least once a month and picked up books when I found them at yard sales. As they got older they read a lot of my books, which were mostly science fiction and fantasy, and magazines.

Reflecting on this now, I never let them watch much tv and if it was not too cold or raining they had to play outside. Maybe they figured that if they were reading I would let them stay inside. Hmmmm.

[keroro gunsou]

118. smart kids...

aside from the enjoyment i get from reading it did keep me inside a lot during the summer, which really suck in wisconsin.

oddly enough, my mom, who is a teacher, never caught on to that...

[Pithlet]

75. That wasn't my experience. But, I do agree that future generations offer a lot of hope.

I'm 35. My parents were readers so I had access to a lot of books. It may not have been the same for everyone. But, they were out there. My elementary school teachers always read books to us. They'd read a chapter or two at a time and the classroom was always silent, and we couldn't wait till the next installment. I hope they still do that will all the test prep they have to do now. I do love the books out for kids today, and I always think about how much I would have loved those books when I was a kid. Kids do seem to be bigger readers nowadays, too.

I also had Intellevision, so I played my share of video games. Pac Man was big for our generation, too. I think the root of a lot of these articles like the one in the OP is a distrust of all the shiny new technology. Too much video games or TV is of course not good, but I don't think the existence of new technology itself is a bad thing, and often it affords many advantages. I don't look at all the new technology now and shrink in fear for the new generations. I think, "Wow, I wish we had that when I was a kid!" But, a lot of today's technology was being born or in development when I was a kid. Earlier generations may have a bigger problem with it.

[SmokingJacket]

81. Well, I read a lot too, but it wasn't in the culture like it is now.

It's hard to imagine something like Harry Potter happening in the 70s/80s. And teachers still read to kids, at least in the schools my kids are in.

The teaching of reading, btw, has improved greatly. My kids don't have to deal with those terrible, miserable reading textbooks like "Pathways" or "Kaleidescope" with their matching workbook. (Or worse, those "reading comprehension" cards that came in boxes and were as dry as the Sahara.) Schools now seem to teach a stimulating mix of literature and phonics, and the kids get to choose a lot of their own material.

I'm 39, probably the oldest edge of Gen X, and I was a *tad* too old to get into video games. They came out when I was 12 or so, and moving on to other things...

[Pithlet]

84. Oh, yes, I remember those awful cards.

There have definitely been a lot of improvements. They're also teaching things a lot earlier than they used to. My older son is in Kindergarten and is learning skills I remember covering in 2nd and 3rd grade. It's one of the reasons I think the article in the OP is a total crock.

[raccoon]

93. I hope they're teaching reading with something better than those stupid

"Dick, Jane, & Sally" books that boomers (and earlier generations, I think) were taught from.

Run, run, run. See Dick run. Run, Dick, run. :puke: :puke: :puke:


It's a wonder crap that didn't turn ALL of the kids against reading.

[SmokingJacket]

142. Many of them did!

Those textbooks made reading sooooo dry, you hardly blame people.

[hiphopnation]

106. i'm going to weigh in here and agree with you

the article seems a tad alarmist and doesn't seem to put a lot of faith and or stock in our kids.

i love mark morford too, but this doesn't seem to foster any hope in young ones -- this very attitude promulgates the feeling amongst younger kids that older generations don't respect them and are just waiting for them to fail. this is such a flawed tack to take with younger generations, but one that's unfortunately very familiar.

*sigh*

[lonestarnot]

55. My kid will lead the dumb masses then.

:toast:

[AngryAmish]

58. Patently and demonstrably untrue

In fact the youngest generation is the smartest generation ever to set foot on earth. see <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flynn_effect>

The next generation would be even smarter.

The kids may have different interests but by any objective standard they are smarter. I'm in my late 30s and went to a suburban catholic school. Kids are learning stuff in 7th and 8th grade that was high school level work for me.

Next thing you know this guy will complain about the kids gobbling their food...

[havocmom]

63. Not much parenting going on out there. That is the root of most of it.

Raising children? Who has time? Or interest?

Too damned few.

[NashVegas]

65. And Our Masters in the Corporate Boardrooms Like It This Way

They'll never be challenged by someone with a different value system, if they can survive one more generation.

[Deja Q]

66. Build what, you say? Sorry, those jobs are outsourced because it's cheaper.

BTW: Our school system has been devalued, not to mention encouraging the dislike of the intellectual for decades.

[mwb970]

67. Maybe technology is making kids smarter.

Has Technology Made Kids Smarter? Education and the Tech-Savvy Child
by Susan Smith Nash (XplanaZine, June 2, 2006)

When one considers how kids have been spending their free time with information technology, it is no wonder that they are bored by school. You don’t have to be an "Indigo Child" (http://www.indigochild.com/) to find a 50-minute traditional class where students sit dutifully in hard chairs behind desks, listening to the teacher, taking notes, then taking tests, to be utterly stultifying. It is enough to convince a parent that homeschool or "unschooling" (http://www.unschooling.com/) could actually be better than a structured classroom experience.

Thinking about my son’s words, I try to imagine how the current generation of teen-agers might view their Generation X and Baby Boomer parents. The words "narcissistic" and "self-absorbed" occur to me immediately, as I think of the high divorce rates, the "me generation," the "yuppies," and bizarre custody battles in which more concern was given to the family cat and rights to the time-share than to the kids. I do believe that he has a point. Boomer generations can been seen as resisting the notion that everything is always in flux, and that nothing is permanent; thus one can never be smug or complacent. A failure to embrace the notion of constant technological change and upgrades sets up internal resistance to new ideas and structures. I can see how this could lead to a failure to communicate in any meaningful way about process and procedures.

While a great deal of effort is expended in creating online courses and education programs that will appeal to adults, operating under the assumption that the adult learner needs to have the course content presented in a certain way for learning to take place, perhaps it is not too far-fetched to say that the same principles apply to tech-savvy kids.

More here.

[Imagevision]

72. The M$M will continue to keep these kids dumbed down, knowledge is too damn powerful - just

give a kid an ipod and his/her music and their good to go, the rest? let the old folks figure it out.
Dumbing down? how else would idiots like Bush pull off his agenda, admit it, Bush got over!!!

[MedleyMisty]

73. Again - why do you think music is so awful?

I remember in IDH in high school we spent a class listening to protest songs from the 60s.

Hmm, maybe music does melt your brain and we can blame the current situation on 60s rock and roll.

Actually, we should go further than that. I propose that human society has been on a downward spiral ever since the first attempt to bang two rocks together in rhythm. If only we could go back in time and stop it.

[mondo joe]

88. My kids have iPods and are exceptionaly good students.

What do you think the two have to do with each other?

[BlackVelvet04]

77. I'm coming to realize that

part of the problem is really our perception. Most of the kids today are so advanced in their understanding of technology that it's mind boggling. No, they don't know who was president during the civil war and they use calculators to add and subtract but yet they can sit down with a vcr, dvd recorder, cell phone, computer, etc and do things that seems to be beyond many of us.

It's true that many of the kids are dumber than dirt by our standards but maybe not so dumb as far as the new standards of life in this country.

I have an 18 year old nephew who just started college. By the time he reached college he had 6 years of Latin (3 at college level, 2 years of French, he took college level math and science classes far beyond what most of us were exposed to. He's studying micro-biology and wants to use that to develop and build better prosthesis.

[seabeyond]

79. this is what i am seeing in education that you see with you nephew.

my 7th grade son is taking the SAT in dec with the seniors in high school

[tammywammy]

78. Doesn't every generation say this about the next?

I'm sure the Neanderthals were bitching about how lazy their children were too.

It's a different type of generation coming up. I don't think they're stupid, school work is a lot more advanced that it was when my parents were in school. They've had different technological advantages that even I, born in 1980 didn't have.

[mondo joe]

83. Absolutely.

You were born in 1980?

Punk.

[tammywammy]

85. There's no need to be nasty.

:P

[fishnfla]

104. "Can you believe the kids these days? why back in my day....

it was sooo much better. I really worry about the future"

I hear this crap from old people all day long. Then I have to repeat the simplest of instructions for the 8th time.

NEWS FLASH: THE BRAIN DRAIN STARTED WITH THIS SO-CALLED GREATEST GENERATION. LEMMINGS, ALL

[tammywammy]

126. I wouldn't say there's a brain drain

I mean yeah, I have to explain to the older workers here how to use FedEx online or remind them to delete what's in their trash email file, but it's more that they aren't used to the technology, not that they're stupid. Plus, as you get older it's harder to learn new things too.

Every generation is different. We all face different things.

[porphyrian]

82. They'll be better consumers. It's by design. - n/t

[Didereaux]

89. We now have 3rd gen educators who themselves were not educated n/t

[Imagevision]

91. My republican nephew says (31) Bush isn't for the little people, "we need another repug prez"...

I believe to some degree there is a credible amount of dumbing down as I doubt my nephew is unique in this belief.

[LynneSin]

95. Think about it - those 25% that still believe in Bush are probably some of the biggest breeders

Just think if each of those 17 kids have 17 kids of their own - and pops ran for government as a republican

:scared:

[Arugula Latte]

178. That scares the crap out of me, too.

No wonder we're dumbing down. The fundies are breeding like rats.

They're gonna run out of "J" names, too. May I suggest "Jockstrap" for the next boy and "Jujubee" for the next girl.

[Pooka Fey]

96. K&R

[WinkyDink]

97. TPTB WANT an ignorant student population.

School Administrators insist on curriculum changes, deleting the study of details and facts (I speak FROM EXPERIENCE) such as: historical dates and chronologies (why kids have no clue when and why certain wars occurred; they just learn the "theme" of "war"); the Periodic Table of the Elements; the content of specific poems and stories, substituting "if you can read one, you can read'em all"; even clear-cut solutions to mathematical problems (preferring instead grading on "process" and "approximation").

Students do the learning, true; but when we give them the Generic Brand of Education in public schools instead of the Name Brand, all the while building their "self-esteem", we will continue to turn out generations of arrogant know-nothings.

[Vilis Veritas]

98. But this does not mean it will end!

This is just the beginning. Now they can do what they want at will. You need lots of dumb people to work in the dumb jobs that will be left...you know, Killing Floors, Shiny Bauble Manufacturing, McDonald's, Walmart, Crop Pickers, Dell Phone Support Rep...etc...

Fascism is no longer Fascism, it is FASHION.

Peace.

[Beelzebud]

101. Watch idiocracy. We're heading to a corporate controlled disaster.

[Vilis Veritas]

145. Oh enlightened one!

I must now do something I hardly ever do, watch some video.

Corporate Controlled Disaster...sounds like Shock Doctrine?

[Scriptor Ignotus]

103. whatevs dude

old people have said this every generation for the past 6000 years. it's a cause for concern of course, but there are still plenty of smart and ambitious Americans ready and willing to lead this country. The American dream still lives and people who work hard do exist in this country. We'll be OK, although maybe not #1 country in the world OK.

[Bodhi BloodWave]

187. Hehe, i can't resist posting two of my favorite quotes

since they fit perfectly with your last post

We live in a decaying age. Young people no longer respect their parents. They are rude and impatient. They frequently inhabit taverns and have no self control.
--Inscription, 6000 year-old Egyptian tomb (quoted in R.Buckminster Fuller's I Seem to be a Verb)

and

Our earth is degenerate these latter days. There are signs that the world is speedily coming to an end. Bribery and corruption are common.
--Inscription, 4800 year-old tablet (quoted in Isaac Asimov's Book of Facts)

[NeedleCast]

107. I don't allow...

So many people in this thread talking about things they don't allow their children to use, many of which I think are great learning tools! I'm not a parent, but I am an adult educator and part of my job is to look at new and innovative ways to train people (on computer software). One of the things I see people frequently saying they don't allow is I-Pods (or similar devices). We just had a big training meeting a few days ago where we were discussing how we could use such devices to facilitate distance learning. Creating Pod-casts or creating other pre-recorded materials that could be placed in an online repository. I'm on my 3rd MP-3 player and take it everywhere. I go to the gym more because I can listen to my music on a light-weight medium. More outside time because i can take music with me, even laying out on my deck is more pleasant.

TVs, gaming devices, cell phones...all these things can play a role in education! People don't stop to think about the good they can do, they "ban them from their houses" because of the perceived negatives. There is TONS of good educational software out there for just about any medium of gaming. I have a friend who's 10 year old is now tri-lingual (english, spanish, Portuguese) and he learned from a combination of computer software and software on a portable gaming device.

Like many things, cell phones, TVs, gaming devices...they're all just tools. It how parents, as parents, regulate they're use that decides whether or not your child is learning a new language or playing Halo 3 (not that there's anything wrong with some Halo-3, because damn that game is the doo-doo).

[Pithlet]

114. I would rec this if it were its own thread.

Parenting is hard, and most of us do what we feel is right, and that will differ from one parent to the other. I think most kids who's parents don't allow this stuff will turn out fine. But scapegoating these tools as bad for kids is baseless. It's also almost impossible to keep your kids free from it nowadays, because even if parents ban it from their home, their kids are likely to get it at school and later at their friends' homes. More classrooms are using these new tools. Better to embrace it in your own home where you can control the amount and content. I think the video games I played growing up had a net positive effect on me, especially the educational ones. For example, I can type about 100 wpm and I credit the typing game we had on our Mac. There was a time when that skill kept me from having to flip burgers. I could list many more examples.

[NeedleCast]

121. Thanks, You get the Gist of it!

I'm not about to start telling parents how to raise their kids but part of my job is looking around at what works out there in the world and figuring out how to bring it to a meeting or brain-strom session on how it can be applied to adult education. People are always so busy looking for the negatives (or worse, applying human traits to a tool, like saying an X-Box 360 is "evil") that they don't look at the advantages such things can provide. The big reason we've spent a lot of time talking about how to facilitate training over MP-3 devices is because so many people have them with them all the time now. Same with cell phones, especially as their memory capacity evolves.

More and more, things are becoming digital. I've had people say "well, we don't allow our child to use the computer to help with his/her homework" and my response is "why the heck not?!?" I'm not saying that going to check out some books from the library to do a book report is an antiquated idea, but why not use every tool at your disposal? There's more to education than learning a fact...it's HOW you learn a fact!! If I use google to look up Universal String Theory I'm not just learning something about Universal String Theory, I might also learn how to do a Boolean search with a web browser.

These generations are the ones proving the old axiom: Work smarter, not harder.

Your examply of typing is one I use all the time when "selling" ideas like this. I learned to type using computer software on an Apple IIc in the mid-80s AND reinforced it with a class I took in high school. By the time I was in college, I was typing 100+ WPM and on an hourly basis probably made more money typing other people's papers for them back then as I do as IT professional at age 33. Man, you said it. Spending two hours a day typing up papers beat the shit out of waiting tables or flipping burgers! I think at one time I was banging out two 10-page double spaced papers an hour, checking my work and making two bucks a page. Most of my friends were making minimum wage. I was making 40 bucks an hour.

Even to boob-tube can be informative and educational assuming a parent will monitor what a child is watching and personally I don't think an episode of Sponge Bob is going to cause them to perform a full data-dump, but whatever.

Here's an idea for those who ban TVs in children's rooms. Give them a TV, a DVD player and some interactive software, but DON'T hook that TV up to your cable. You avoid having to worry about the TV content and provide a unique and modern learning experience.

[seabeyond]

116. i am one of those, "i dont allow". boundaries

but... i agree with what you are saying. there has to be a happy medium. a balance. an understanding that today we are a nation of things and children today are given so many of those things. what i am about is teaching my children it is not an automatic right to have everything and all they may desire. there is cost. pick and chose. we live in a really rich school district and the kids brag so about the stuff they have, the money they have. part of this denying kids all the various ways to video games and opting for one or two,.... and focusing the money on the games wanted for that unit. we dont have to have them all. cells are an expensive toy starting with kids in elementary school. like the 150 tennis shoes. another thing my kids dont have, though i could afford them.

there are reasons parents are and should be saying no to "things".

we have always taken the advantages with the tv. there is a lot of good educational programming. even with the negative programming (programming like in a childs brain) we have also been able to use it as a positive tool in the conditioning of society, and the negative impact on our society.

but all of this is parenting thru a connection and communication and time with the child. anytime a parent does this, it does not matter what the choices, decisions are.... it will be a positive.

btw... my toy lovin hubby just bought a we? oui?. one of those long fast rule of mine we werent going to do. the reason he bought it... the exact reason you stated.

[NeedleCast]

125. I was brought up very much the same way

and for the most part, you're not the sort I'm talking about, hehe. My father was an attorney and my mom a substitute teach (and damn did that make ditching class a risky proposition...) and they could have inundated me with "things" but instead, by age 15 I was working part time busing tables. I used that money to buy a crappy car, which I used to take a more lucrative job delivering pizza and I used the money from that to buy a nicer car. Again, this is on the parent.

My argument is more along the lines of those saying "I don't allow (x)" because I don't want my kids playing violent video games. That's totally understandable. I don't have an issue with violent games but if someone does, okay with me. My point is more along the lines of "don't blame (x)" because of it's capability to invoke something you, as a parent, don't want, but embrace it because of it's ability to do (y).

There's nothing wrong with doing math problems on a chalk-board or using pencil-and-paper but on the other hand, there's nothing wrong with inovking some computer assistance...becasue not only are you learning math, you're learning math AND increasing computer (or at least software) skills.

It's the difference between using a piece of technology as a crutch, and using a piece of technology as a tool.

[seabeyond]

129. yes. last night son divided 394 by 23.9. hubby showed him how

then we grabbed the calculator to check our answer and encourage our son to use calculator exactly for that reason.

i agree with your whole post

[NeedleCast]

140. And the great thing about what you did...

...is encourage critical thinking skills, which is one area where I think younger generations fall short. Not only did you teach help with a math skill, you showed your son "here's how to do it, AND if you need a back up, you can use this tool."

It's been very interesting in my career seeing how different generations learn. We recently conducted an old, old training tool that I learned back in elementry school...."Teach someone who has never done it before to make a peanut butter and jelly sandwich. Take nothing for granted."

Some replies were five lines long. We also got back some eight page papers. The older generations tended to be short and to the point. The younger generations tended to be more long winded, often to the point of being far to technical. However, less than 10% of the papers would have been useful to someone who had never made a peanut butter and jelly sandwich before. Almost everyone got things like "spread the jelly on the bread" but almost no one took it a step deeper and said things like "show them how to open a jar."

That's why I encourage technology in almost every aspect of learning, because not only are you learning, you're learning how to use a tool as well.

[OzarkDem]

108. Let me guess, he has no research or stats to back it up...

Just one burned out teacher's opinion.

As a parent of teenagers, I'd say he's very, very wrong. Kids today are very knowledgeable, thanks to computers and the internet.

And if the teacher has a problem with kids eating junk food, I wish he would stop selling it to them. Mine aren't allowed to eat junk food or drink pop at home, but it sure was pushed on them at school.

[RestoreGore]

109. Nice way to motivate them...

Call them idiots. All the teens and children I know aren't idiots and I would never call a child that regardless. If parents actually give a damn about what their children are doing in school and read with them and make it interesting, they will feel motivated to learn. Personally, I think this is a crock and certainly not a good reflection on the generation that writes these articles. Crosby Stills and Nash said it best: "teach your children well." http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p6pphVs8bF0

[DrunkenMaster]

Morford Only Slightly Misses the Point

They are NOT less intellgent, they are more ignorant. They have also been trained in obedience to authority since birth in such a deeply penetrating and effective manner -- one never before seen in history -- that they specialize in both cynicism and apathy. Why NOT disapper into your Ipod and Xbox, fer chrissakes?

[hiphopnation]

110. jesus morford can be alarmist

i love a lot of his stuff, but c'mon. (a) blaming kids for the product that the older generation CREATED is so flawed, tired, tacky, myopic, et cetera, et cetera, and (b) can you point to ONE generation in human history where the older generation looked to the younger and could proudly say "this generation of kids are bright, respectful, intelligent, savvy individuals who will take the world by storm!"??

no, i didn't think so...

try again, mark. :thumbsdown:

[DrunkenMaster]

112. yeah, because kids don't have a CHOICE

to embrace what the previous generation created, do they?

Oh, wait.

[hiphopnation]

115. kids don't have a choice?

kindly clarify or be more specific

what i'm saying is that the world that children grow up in is a product of the generations before them -- if they grow up in a world where they're continually bombarded with advertisements specifically targeted to thier demo to buy and consume and they have parents who are happy to oblige, who's to blame for them being more infatuated with sneakers and television shows than with algebra and biology? THEM!?!?

[Shallah Kali]

184. "It's not the kids' fault. They're merely the victims of a horribly failed educational system."

He doesn't blame the kids. He blames the adults for letting this happen.

[slackmaster]

111. I have it on good authority that half of American kids are above average

:hi:

[mak3cats]

113. Very good! The unfortunate part is...

...that "average" is not exactly what it used to be!

[watercolors]

117. Have to disagree

We have nine grandchildren, all very intellegent. I am shocked at the homework and what they are studying, even the grade school level. If you are paying attention to what they study you will see how much more they are learning, and how advance the courses are. I am angry about the so called Fcats the state is required to give, it takes away from other studies and I see no logic for them.
We had three grandsons receive scholarships this year, Two are going into egineering and one is in to music. I have a great faith that this generation has much to offer! Have another grandson ready to grad from college in may who is into forensic science. I know I am bragging but we are so proud of them, our two grandaughter in high school are heading toward medicine, one wants to be a doctor the otherwants to do reaseach.

[seabeyond]

120. yea. brag away. someone has to because seems so many today knock the kids

in so many ways. a whole other area my kids and i discuss, recognize and analysis. how much adults today seem to bash the children. out of control. dumb. lazy. disrespectful. yada yada. i have shared so many threads and the comments made by the posters on children bashing threads here, that it has been a HUGE lesson to my children in social skills, manners that take them way beyond most of the adults they interact with

[hiphopnation]

123. ...

"how much adults today seem to bash the children"

adults have done this since we became upright!! seems to me the lesson to be learned here is by "adults", not kids.

[seabeyond]

132. lesson to be learned here is by "adults

couldn't agree with you more. my sons and i conclude that regularly, wink.

maybe adults have always behaved this way and i just never heard it. and maybe it is because today we have the world wide web where the anonymous post can post whatever outrageous garbage they want. but..... a lot of the shit i hear posted on this board about children floor me. i never knew adults hated.... literally hate kids so much. it wasn't in my world.

[hiphopnation]

136. oh yes

and yet it stands to reason -- we love them until they learn to talk and then everything that's wrong in the world we blame on them, without even blinking. ESPECIALLY the things that are going wrong in their own lives, i.e., their own level of intellect, as the article posted reflects, their "respect for elders", their obsession with toys and gadgets (come on with this!! i know adults who are WAY MORE obsessed with their cell phones and gadgets than some kids i know -- hell most kids i know would much rather play in dirt than fuss with a cell phone).

it's standard adult myopia, and yes it's maddening. but i imagine it ain't goin' nowhere.

*sigh*

[seabeyond]

139. you write a good post. thanks n/t

[Dukkha]

119. I believe it

us Gen-Xers were the first generation to do worse than it's predecessor economically. The Gen-Yers will be the first to do worse intellectually. after all they are a major cause of this worst decade in modern American history. It's evident everywhere in the media, pop culture, social interactivity, and most of all politics.

[LanternWaste]

124. "Never trust anyone under 30"

When cell phones are the new opiate of the masses, when kids line up for the newest game console but have to think long and hard about the last book they've read, when youths buy clothes that are more walking billboards for a corporation than anything else, when the lads and lasses are ever-so-proud because they question everything-- except themselves (and can question everything in "uber-coo" soundbites), I find myself in general agreement with Moford and putting a new spin on an contemporary adage....

"Never trust anyone under 30"

[tammywammy]

133. "Never trust anyone under 30" is quite a broad brush statement

You're going to be missing out. I'm 27, but I'm a successful adult. I work hard, purchased my first house, etc. Most of my friends are around my own age, and they're all in the same boat as me.

Older generations have always bitched about the younger ones not being as good, smart or hard working. It's a fallacy.

[Didereaux]

134. never heard of Dylan have you? LOL n/t

[tammywammy]

135. Oh, after reading this thread

that totally went over my head. LOL. Thanks for pointing it out. :)

[Didereaux]

137. BIG GRIN! you're welcome

[Blue_In_AK]

128. I think that's a bit alarmist...

I had three daughters go through the public school system here, and have two grandsons in it now, and I have no complaints. My girls got excellent educations and are doing well. The grandsons are in a Russian immersion program at their elementary school (1/2 day of school is taught in Russian) and are smart as whips. Maybe it's just because they have grandma's good genes ( :) ) but I think it's just as likely that the kids are getting a good education. I know they all learned (or are learning) a lot more in school than I ever did.

[shadowknows69]

141. Shit I wish I could go through school again

With the learning resources available to kids these days via simulation and the internet? We should have Einsteins popping up everywhere.

[incapsulated]

144. I understand parents being offended by this.. but....

I'm sure the average DU'er has smarter than average kids.

But I am telling you, as an unbiased observer, I've never seen kids so ignorant. Just plain dumb. I don't blame them at all. Society is failing them and when it does, society will pay the price.

I will edit to add, it's not just ignorance it's a lack of mental discipline and intellectual curiosity. You can give them all the homework in the world and teach them to pass tests but that isn't developing minds.

It upsets me because I love kids and we are failing them.

[NeedleCast]

147. I think the difference lies more in what they're taught

When I was in grade school it was all about learning the basics.

There are a LOT of kids out there today who can't name the seven continents.

A LOT of those kids who can't name the seven continents can run circles around most adults on a computer.

[Pithlet]

148. I hated the "kids today" rants even before I had kids.

I'm also around a lot more kids now that I have them, and I'm just not seeing it. Not seeing the lack of mental discipline or intellectual curiosity. They certainly aren't less so than kids in my day. I think as people get older they need to resist falling into the "kids today" trap. It's lazy, IMO. I refuse to do it as I get older. If I find myself starting to think these thoughts, I will slap myself. It's not that there aren't concerns. I'm concerned about the trend toward standardized testing. But stuff like that isn't the kids' fault. Kids are resilient. They'll come through just like they always have despite those concerns. To give up and have no faith is the worst thing, especially since there's no hard evidence to back up the assertion that kids are failures today.

[incapsulated]

150. I think that is also a knee-jerk reaction

"People always said".

How many times have we talked about the dumbing down of this country? Is that also a fantasy? Those adults were once kids and the kids will one day be adults.

[Pithlet]

165. It isn't knee jerk. Complaining about the next generation is nothing new

and there is plenty of recorded evidence of it. How many times have we talked about the dumbing down of this country? I don't know, but I think it's a bunch of bunk just like I always have. It's just hand-wringing generalizations. I think it makes much more sense to address actual problems rather than broad-brushing whole groups. There are indeed some kids who are falling through the cracks (again, nothing new). How does throwing our hands up in the air and crying about the decline of society doing them any good? The answer is it isn't. It's nice to think one is a member of a better educated, more enlightened generation. It's comforting. But, it's hogwash.

[hiphopnation]

167. it's entirely relative which is what makes mark's argument so weak

outside the fact that older generations indeed HAVE "always said" these types of things about the younger.

but young people today are dumb -- compared to what?!? human history is littered with idiocy, just how "smart" have we ever been ever. it's just intellectually lazy to make such broad brush statements and it's even more alarming coming from the likes of mr. morford. where does he get off?

are americans getting dumber? well, compared to what? 19th century americans? i think you'd have a tough time making such an argument. sure they read a lot more back then, but a young person today is much more likely to be able to hack complex computer systems. whether you think that's an apt and important skill to possess may be up for debate but I know that i sure as hell couldn't do it.

besides it being broad brush it smacks of instigating age warfare which is even worse. a poorly executed article by morford, imho. :thumbsdown:

[hiphopnation]

146. best reply on the comments page to mark's idiotic article

"you're getting old, Mark"

spot on

[Evoman]

149. BULLSHIT.

I'm almost 30 years old. I am literally surrounded by illiterate, un-read, ignorant morons that are OLDER than me. The kids today....yeah, they could probably use more classes in history and civics, but I'll be damned if they aren't as smart or smarter than my generation.

Every year, they ask us science grad students to help judge local science fairs at the elementary schools. The quality of the work - both the experiments, and the artistic displays, are top notch. These kids are not dumb...and neither are they impolite or disrespectful. Everytime somebody hold open a door for me, or helps me out, it's a young kid. The "elders" are the ones who keep expecting people to do things for them, and get ornery if they don't get their way.

This is bullshit.

[hiphopnation]

152. couldn't agree more

morford is being an alarmist and engaging in age warfare, if you ask me. elitist and myopic and helping NOTHING.

[seabeyond]

156. good for you. my sons hold doors open for people to the point

i stand waiting and rollin my eyes and the adults and i giggle at my kids dogged efforts to help out others. my son got in car yesterday after picking up my library book and said man.... i missed out on helping out an older woman. i ran to open the door for her, but she got there first. he was disappointed he couldnt open the door for her because she had an arm full of books.

yea

i like your post

[diane in sf]

151. I disagree, but I teach college so I'm not stuck with a bunch of prisoners.

The kids actually seem smarter in the last 5 years.

[snooper2]

154. And people bitch here about their whittle babies having too much homework

eom

[Pithlet]

159. Who cares that research shows too much homework too early is harmful

Much easier to rant about the stupid, clueless parents of today. Just as it's much easier to rant about the next generation. Much easier to slam an entire group of people rather than giving it any thought or contributing to a discussion in a meaningful way.

[RedCappedBandit]

157. Takes one to raise one. nt

[Sir Jeffrey]

160. This is complete bullshit

America is a big country, with varying standards of education, funding, and testing. There are excellent public schools and awful private schools. There are awful public schools and excellent private schools. There are schools known for math and science, and there are schools known for athletics.

Within the districts, you have well funded and poorly funded schools. You have good teachers and awful teachers. You have teachers that require rote memorization and teachers that stimulate independent thought.

Mr. Morford has never read C.W. Mills 'The Power Elite'. If he had he would realize that the United States is not creating a generation of idiots. The United States is doing what it always has...it is creating a two-tiered class of citizens. You have the first class made up of the independently wealthy, which drafts/co-opts the intelligent/gifted/sociopathic from the lower classes into its ranks. By doing so you create a system that rewards the super rich and the super smart at the expense of the second group. That feeds the lower classes enough hope that they too can advance, which keeps our quasi-feudal system in a state of self-perpetuation. Without the hope of advancement, the rest would revolt.

The second group is the rest of the people. They don't matter. They don't typically vote, or if they do they can be suckered into voting for people like GWB or Reagan...candidates that are so obviously opposed to their needs that smart people scratch their hands and wonder why those idiots vote for them.

We had a *brief* detour from this system over the last 30 years or so with the creation and expansion of the middle class, but it is coming back around and the middle class is disappearing for the foreseeable future. Mr. Morford's view of history is skewed if he doesn't recognize this as an inevitable backlash. There is no reason for the upper classes to provide for the middle class if the middle class won't even vote to protect its own interests as it is being killed off by NAFTA and tax cuts for the rich. They voted for a $600 rebate check in 2000 in exchange for the eradication of govt. services that provide/protect their middle class status. Well, that and because they would rather have a beer with Bush than with a "nerdy stiff" like Gore who actually knows stuff and is competent.

This dichotomy is expressed in his article and he doesn't even realize it. Of course there are super intelligent young people around today. They will most likely, by and large, be co-opted into the upper crust of society. The rest will, as always, be left to fend for themselves.

If anything, the younger people should give us all hope that they will completely abandon quasi-feudalism and move towards a more democratic system. People my age and younger (29 and under) are much more liberal and politically engaged than any generation in recent history.

"The next generation might just be the biggest pile of idiots in U.S. history" is pure hyperbole. A more accurate statement would be that the US will, over the next 30 years, probably have the biggest gap between smart and stupid people in history. The smartest will have more information available to them than any generation prior, and the stupid people will get to live life in blissful ignorance.

[seabeyond]

161. damn, this is good. there are a couple points i wanted to highlighted

wonderful sound bites. i am responding to so many posters on this thread going all the way down the thread, but so much of what people are saying is right on.

really good points in your post.
thanks

[incapsulated]

163. You make excellent points and I agree with most, however...

The dichotomy is not as great as you assume when it comes to activities like voting. A person can be ignorant and zealous and that is also a trend that we are living with.

I also think you make my point when people here get up in arms because they do not see this in their lives. Their kids will be the privileged. This article addressed exactly that point, that the minority will still be well educated, informed and get the structure that is needed. The argument is that is a shrinking minority and the standards for the majority are slipping all the time. And unless you deny them the right to vote or think that only the best educated perform important, if not critical, jobs in this society, we will pay a price for it.

[Sir Jeffrey]

171. I am a bit confused regarding your first point...

The people on the other end of the spectrum, i.e. the uneducated zealots, as a group, can be controlled and counted on to vote for people that do not represent their interests. The media highlights the "anger issues" that rile up the ignorant zealots, which then leads to them advancing the agenda of maintaining the status quo...the quasi-feudalist 21st Century America. Whether it is immigration reform or, as the Onion put it a few weeks ago, mere "bullshit" like flag lapel pins and photo ops, these people think they matter for the overall good of society, but actually they are just puppets and the first group controls the strings. Of course some ignorant zealots end up voting for their own interests occasionally, but overall the group is bred from birth to be obedient, irrationally threatened by intelligence, assuming that they are going to be millionaires against all odds, and always clinging to some vague definition of "freedom" that gets shoved down everyone's throats.

This article is a superb example of the very thing you say my post proves: that people do not see the slipping standards in their lives, therefore the article is false. The first point I made in my post is that you can take a slice of any segment of the education system and see whatever you want to see. You can take a look at MTV and get the idea that everyone under 30 is a blithering idiot. You can look around your neighborhood and see some real dumbasses. That tells you absolutely nothing about the overall picture. Mr. Morford talks of the teacher that fed him this idea. That is just as anecdotal as anyone in this thread claiming that it isn't true.

My overall point was that both sides are probably true. There is a two tiered system of education in America that has been in place since the beginning and will continue to be there long after we're dead and buried. The fact that a two tiered system has far different outcomes should not surprise anyone.

I simply disagree about the point that the "elite" minority are shrinking. Again, is there any evidence to support this claim? Actually, there seems to be more concentrated wealth in the US right now than at any time since the Great Depression, and the number of millionaires is increasing dramatically. At the same time, the cost of living is increasing for everyone as the personal and disposable income for the "unwashed" are decreasing. The evidence seems to suggest that middle class is breaking off into a small group that got boosted into the upper class elite and the rest are at varying degrees of lower middle class, trending further downward. That means that more people than ever are moving into the elite, but at the same time the rest of the middle are slipping into the muck with the rest of the "unwashed".

That seems to be the plan...move enough of the middle class into the elite and that way you can cut out a ton of govt programs and protection for the "unwashed". They won't have anyone to protect them, so they can be directed either to McDonalds, the Army, or Jail.

[Bluerthanblue]

168. ok- pet peeve- "Dumb" means unable to speak- it doesn't mean

ignorant or stupid, except as a slang term.

Maybe writing a column that is discussing the lack of intelligence of today's youth using slang is not a 'smart' idea?


anal perhaps-

but I was continually corrected for mis-using this word.

:shrug:

[BrklynLib at work]

170. I have friends who are teachers, and I have friends who have teenage and 20-something kids....

IT is TRULY SCARY!!!
And judging from TV like "Jay-Walking" and what are considered the most popular shows on TV these days...too many of the adults are not much ahead of the kids...
When more people vote for a winner on a TV show then in the elections...it is a very, very sad day.

Earlier comment about the RightWingers wanting just this situation is correct. They have done everything they could to undermine what had been a superb public education system in this country.

[knight_of_the_star]

172. What a great steaming load

Honestly he has no place to bitch at us who are just now coming of age into the world, the workforce, and the public sphere when his generation is greatly at fault for the mess things are in right now.

[seabeyond]

174. isnt that a hoot. i have been telling my kids since before 2004 election

the mess us adults are creating will be theirs to clean up. so learn, get active, be aware and then get to work when you grow up. all the screw ups we are doing today, and we blame the children for a future. kinda indicitive of just how bad the adults are, that we cannot even own it today, rather ignore it to pin it on another generation. and that screw up goes to the parenting of the very children this man is bitching about. maybe he should have directed this article to adults and he would have been a little acurate instead of predicting an unknown future.

very good point.

hm.

[dysfunctional press]

179. how are they going to make enough wages to support boomers on social security?

:shrug:

[hiphopnation]

181. america's media

shrill and broken

[lumberjack_jeff]

182. Stupider than us? Jesus Christ! n/t

[mark414]

185. there are a lot of stupid kids. there are a lot of stupid adults too.

[opihimoimoi]

186. One of the first signs was a movie called BLACKBOARD JUNGLE..GIDGET ETC included

[and-justice-for-all]

188. "American kids, dumber than dirt" No shit!!

With all those graduates from Liberty Univesity and along with those folks who home school their kids; which they "Only teach their kids mathmatics because god likes mathmatics.":puke: Those poor sheltered kids are going to grow up so misguided and unable to function properly in society, I look for the suicide rate to go up.

The US is pretty much dead last in education, specially in the fields of Math and Science. I do not know if I should laugh or cry!! But all in all it is tragic.

[sendero]

190. On the other hand..

... my kid recently scored a 2370 on his SAT. And as far as I can tell, the overall achievement level at his HS is pretty high.

So it's not all bad. :)

[aikoaiko]

191. "urban public education" -- the article in the OP is specific

I find that interesting.