So what is the MAX INCOME one can have and still be a member here?

[CTD]

I ask because it sure seems like there is a lot of hostility here for people with money - even modest wealth.

It doesn't even seem to be based in some assumption that the wealthy are automatically selfish right-winger. No, it appears the wealth by itself is the justification for the hostility.

So, to those expressing these kinds of comments, how much *can* one make and still be a "good liberal"?

[atreides1]

1. Could you be more specific

[midlife_mo_Jo]

2. We need a poll

:hide:

[Coexist]

65. yeah... thats the ticket

[supernova]

3. It's not the wealth itself;

it's how people choose to behave with that wealth that gets them a good or bad rep here at DU.

[mondo joe]

9. Like if they behave by buying a house in a neighborhod where values skyrocket.

[supernova]

17. That wasn't my sense of

"behave" in this sentence.

My sense of "behave" is as in the verb of "behavior" which is itself neutral.

It's more like whether they use that wealth for public good or for sheer profit making, sometimes off the misery of others. Not where they happen to reside,

[mondo joe]

22. And are you saying that's really what matters here?

It's certainly what SHOULD matter.

But some days it's hard to tell.

[supernova]

26. And what do you think my last sentence means? - eom

[mondo joe]

62. I think I understood you.

My issue is that you are describing the DU that should be - but at times is truly not.

[mondo joe]

4. You might also want a list of approved purchases.

Even if you make only a little money, if you spend it on certain items that are declared unnecessary you may be in trouble.

[Kolesar]

16. yes, we cannot accomodate supporters of the fascisto-incandescent agenda!

[dmallind]

18. Well especially if it's a non-hybrid car that doesn't get 35 mpg. NT

jlkjljk

[Zywiec]

19. Obviously nothing purchased at Walmart!!! n/t

[ret5hd]

27. Well, I am certain cigarettes won't be on the list.

[bryant69]

5. I don't know - maybe you should contact George Soros and ask if he is a good liberal.

Find out how he does it.

Do you have any examples of people who are angry at the existence of wealth? Or would it be easier if I just took it on faith that such people exist?

Bryant
Check it out --> http://politicalcomment.blogspot.com

[Midlodemocrat]

29. No he is not. He still has money. He needs to give it all away.

[slackmaster]

6. Good question

:popcorn:

[Tektonik]

7. As long as one makes an honest income

and donates a good % of their income to charities for the less fortunate I have no problem if someone makes millions of dollars.

[A HERETIC I AM]

21. Define "good %"

How much is necessary before you begin to have a problem with them?

[CreekDog]

66. I like how you are confronting this kind of judgement

I think I'm reading your intent correctly. It's as if to point out, "who are any of you to decide whether someone is behaving morally or not, if you are basing it on their financial choices in comparison to ARBITRARY thresholds?".

A fair point if that is what you are getting at.

I do believe we can judge, but unthinking, arbitrary delineations do more harm than good.

If you have to shop at Wal Mart or drive 40 miles to another town, what's the right choice? How about the right choice is the thoughtful one that you make, not the choice I make for you?

[Bicoastal]

8. I thought all the fire trolls got tombstoned...

...or am I mistaken? The one I was yelling at got his ass handed to him....

[Marrah_G]

28. The other one is still alive

He back-pedaled and apologized when he realized he was going to get banned.

[A-Long-Little-Doggie]

38. Ummm, what is tombstoned?

Newbie question...

[Marrah_G]

40. It's when you get banned

Your profile shows a tombstone.

You'll get used to DU language.

[A-Long-Little-Doggie]

53. So if you get tombstoned you cannot post here ever again?

or is it more like a time-out? (And, no, I am not asking these questions to see what I can get away with! But I did read some of the SoCal fire posts last night and was amazed/appalled with the blaming the victim stuff.)

[Marrah_G]

55. Banned for Life

[Bluzmann57]

43. Tombstoned is when a person gets booted

because he or she is doing nothing but causing trouble or violating other rules outlined elsewhere in DU. Welcome to DU by the way. People in here get crazy sometimes, but in the end, we all want the same thing and that is the end of this regime in charge of our country.

[BridgeTheGap]

10. For me, the sky is the limit...I'll judge based on what comes out of your mouth

not what you have in your wallet or in bank.
That said, it's the influence of money on our political system that I have problem with. There are actually quite a few people who have money who also recognize this to be a major problem.

[Moochy]

11. US $73,552

:sarcasm:

[CreekDog]

67. Adjusted Gross Income? or Taxable Income?

Meanwhile at IRS Burger:

Homer: Marge, how much were our gambling losses last year?
Marge: $750.

[Midlodemocrat]

12. Silly. You have to be jobless and homeless.

Otherwise, you're not a good liberal. Pay attention. :sarcasm:

And, what you are seeing is the basest, most disgustingly juvenile form of jealousy and envy. Nothing more.

[n2doc]

86. You forgot- And volunteering to save the starving in other countries

While giving up body organs to the needy. I mean, really, when one wants to be in a pissing contest one really needs to be prepared to piss blood...

(:sarcasm: for the dense)

[flvegan]

13. How would we treat Al Gore if he joined?

He's got some bucks. Maybe he's not liberal/progressive/left enough.

Ooh, even better...Bobby Kennedy. Surely he's too wealthy to be considered. He'd be tombstoned after 5 posts.

[Midlodemocrat]

14. Or George Soros? Or John Edwards? Or John Kerry?

Teddy Kennedy and some of the most philanthropic people that we've never heard of that happen to be members of the Democratic Party.

I say tombstone them all.

[flvegan]

20. Oh, and straight up fuck that Springsteen guy.

"The Boss" indeed.

[Midlodemocrat]

25. And what about George Clooney and Jon BonJovi?

Yeah, they suck. Dixie Chicks, too. They need to donate every dime they make to others.

[flvegan]

30. Beastie Boys can cram Tibet and Live Earth up their asses, for all I care.

And who the hell does Bono think he is?

BTW, Sean Penn is a fascist and Neil Young hates America.

[Midlodemocrat]

33. That Sean Penn thinks he is all that.

And a bag of chips. He is dead to me.

[flvegan]

41. I'm just glad that wealthy liberal elitist John Lennon is already dead.

[kmla]

77. And don't even start on that fucking Rob Reiner guy.

Caviar munching twit...

[dmallind]

15. Hmm I've noticed the same at times

....or perhaps more often the corollary that in any thread dealing with economic circumstances there seems to be a race for the purity standard of who struggles most financially. I've seen many times in such discussions people patronizingly told they don't understand real economic woes when they mention even modest purchases such as a lone pair of new shoes.

Then again I have also seen posters mention donations and circumstances that put them in a very elevated income bracket indeed with no personal ill will directed at them. It might be cliquishness or it might be that all of those things have already been said. Impossible to say. However I agree that it's more often than not that anyone with a substantial income or upper management background is assumed to be "unpure" until proven otherwise. Makes me wonder where some people think our candidates should look for donations since financially well off Dems are suspect.

[CreekDog]

70. Ah, the World Series of Miseries

Everybody with more than you is taking from you to enrich themselves and therefore cannot be trusted.

It caters to a line of thinking that everyone only acts in their own self interest, rationally, without compassion. Poor people are destined to remain poor and be victimized by the wealthy. The wealthy don't really care about the poor, but only use them to enrich themselves, giving to charity only to ease conscience and to stave of the hordes that will take their dough.

It's a dim view of humanity. While I share a dim view of humanity, even a little light shines a great distance in the darkness.

As Sting wrote,
"Men go crazy in congregations, they only get better one by one"

[madokie]

23. I'm sure its a hell of a lot more than I'm making or am worth ;-)

I guess I must be one of the happiest du'ers because for the most part I don't click on a link that might get me all fired up, I don't like the feeling I get when I do get all fired up. A lot of times I won't post something I really want to ask or talk about because I know it'll turn into a slugfest which sucks. so I read and give lots of atta boys ;-)

[still_one]

24. I don't agree with the premise. What IS discussed is Corporations want to be treated as individuals

interfere with government policy via legalized bribery, i.e. lobbyists, eliminate competition

[peacetalksforall]

31. The answer isn't in HOW much, it's in HOW you spend and make it.

Own, advise/consult, lobby, cater to war weapon and war feed-off companies?
Invest in war weapon and war-feedoff companies?
Own, advise/consult, lobby, cater to companies that pursue ungodly profits related to health gouging and denial of care?
All the rich who refuse to look at and do nothing about the situations described at www.costofwar.com.

Get the idea. Someimes anyone of wealth gets thrown in the same bucket. Distinctions get lost in this country. Our media of corporations leads the way in obfuscating. Making distinctions is where it's at.

Some wealthy are exampt from derision. Some genuinely pursue good causes. Ben and Jerry.

The problem is we don't know enough about the good rich. The terminology isn't there yet so in they go - one bucket.

[mondo joe]

37. That's the HOW YOU MAKE IT. What about HOW YOU SPEND IT?

[peacetalksforall]

39. I think I edited it about the same time you replied. Yes, definitely,

how you make it and spend it.

[Mojorabbit]

32. I have noticed

the same thing. It makes me cringe.

[A HERETIC I AM]

34. One thing is for sure....

For those DU'rs that are either successful or well off, (and there are quite a few - we have several millionaires among us) heaven forbid they mention it because they are pilloried for it.

There is no doubt in my mind that there is a large percentage of members of this website that detest the idea of someone either being financially successful or wealthy, no matter HOW they came upon that money or how they choose to dispose of it. It seems sometimes that if you haven't given most of your wealth away, you just don't qualify as being a Democrat.

It is apparent that many feel if you bought a house 20 years ago for $40,000 that is now worth $1,000,000, you can "afford" a million dollar home and are therefore suspect.

[crispini]

69. I'm not sure it's the wealthy, so much as it is, Californians....

I think a lot of the root of resentment against Californians comes from the fact that many, many of them have sold their expensive houses and moved into other areas of the country where they can live more cheaply. Nice enough if you bought low and sold high-- not so nice if you are in a cheaper area of the country and see your property taxes go up because of your rising home values because of all the newcomers.

[Solly Mack]

35. Depends on how much you donate to me

I'll send you a framed "Bona-fide Good Liberal" certificate if you send me $5,000. For $10,000 you get the lamented wallet-sized certificate - that way you can whip your credentials out at parties and protests and silence those negative comments in flash!

Or, you go on the cheap and just not let others define who you are....

Naturally, I don't recommend you take that route :D

Besides, isn't acceptance worth the money?

[Cha]

36. Don't listen to them..

I guess they must be have some LOUD voices right now to come On DU and see your thread.

It's such a petty way of life to be richist(is that word?..you know what I mean).

I love wealthy Progressives..they're the absolute best, imfho.

[davekriss]

42. To be precise, $349,127.55 (nt)

[ProfessorGAC]

47. Is That Adjusted For Inflation?

:evilgin:
The Professor

[davekriss]

51. Hong Kong Dollars normalized to 2001, of course

Of course, I make exceptions ... as long as the high-income earner is making generous donations to DU!

[hlthe2b]

44. It isn't how much you have, but whether your beliefs and attitudes

are obsessively $$ based. As they say, "to whom much is given, much is expected in return." No one here resents Teddy Kennedy or Bobby JR, or others who seek to help others, despite their great wealth. Unfortunately, the denial factor for some-- who but for a few fortuitous decisions might be struggling themselves-- cause them to judge others negatively who are not doing so well. It is not an attractive trait. It is a REPUGnican trait.

[Romulox]

45. I'll turn the ? around on you: How is it possible to separate economic and social justice?

Are you a "good Dem" if you believe global warming is bad, but that homeless people are usually homeless by choice? You tell me. :shrug:

[Matariki]

46. Not a dollar more than me.

otherwise you're a rich bastard!

[fasttense]

48. It depends on how you got your wealth.

Did you raid a country's treasury? Did you go into Russia claiming you would help the the newly democratized citizens then turn around and make billions off the backs of the starving populist (like George Soros)? Did you support Pinochet tactics in Chile? Did you steal from the newly freed black people in South Africa?

Or did you write a good book, develop a good idea, or run an ethical business paying ethical wages. It all depends on how you did it.

[CTD]

63. What if you were born into an upper middle class family...

...who paid for your college... which enabled you to get a good job... which after years of hard work has become a "career"... that pays well...

Sure there is some luck and privilege involved. But there is also hard work. And solid ethics.

The world is not black and white.

[Harper_is_Bush]

49. Stop trying to pick fights

I've seen precious little from members who have commented on the value of California homes, but I've seen an avalanche of threads from those outraged by it. They always seem to turn into flame threds too.

Are you looking for attention, or just looking for a fight?

[SammyWinstonJack]

58. I think the "outraged" threads win hands down.

It would seem that some here just like stirring the pot. Nothing better too do? Or never miss an opportunity? I wonder which it is? :shrug:

[Lance_Boyle]

71. Outrage trolls are Concern trolls' best friends.

DU sometimes is an intensely sanctimonious chorus of "Well, I NEVER!"

It's best to approach it with the traditional "yeah, and you probably never will, either."

[CTD]

60. It's not just in threads related to the fires, although those are the most recent examples

I've lurked here (posting only on occasion) for 3 years or so and I've often picked up their undercurrent of hostility toward people who live in good neighborhoods with strong public schools or hostility toward people who are professionals and therefore make a salary that (gasp) might break $100K or hostility toward people with nicer cars - as if those things make the things they feel and believe less true.

My point (and the point of this thread) is that people shouldn't be dismissed as non-credible liberals just because they have medical insurance or aren't terrified of losing their home to creditors.

[Lurking Dem]

68. There is at least one

"Eat the Rich" thread here a month.

[TalkingDog]

88. Hmmm... maybe you could post another thread letting people know

That people shouldn't be dismissed as non-credible liberals just because they live in the South, grew up as trailer-trash, sound like a "hillbilly", etc.

Then you could post another one about how people shouldn't be dismissed as non-credible liberals just because they are religious.

Then you could post another one about how people shouldn't be dismissed as non-credible liberals just because they look at porn and don't feel guilty

Then yo.....well, you get the drift.

Inside every person's head there is that "Platonic Liberal". All these so-called liberals posting on DU are just shadows on a cave wall, cast by a fire behind us that we never see; gross distortions of the "true liberal" that lives inside our heads.

The problem is you'll never get them to abandon those scripts. In some way they are comforted, or else they wouldn't keep doing it.

Me, I have my own opinions about Southerners, trailer-trash, the religous, porn viewers, the rich, even.... but none of those people threaten me. And in my experience, personal and otherwise, people tend to be more aggressive toward things that threaten them.

I understand the difficulty of letting it go; when you come here expecting the acceptance of like minds.

I'll paraphrase Henry Kissenger here: The intensity of DU politics and the bitterness of it, is in inverse proportion to the importance of the subject discussed.

Or as an old Philosophy Prof. put it: The more level the playing field, the more disporportionate the smallest discrepencies seem.





My Favorite Master Artist: Karen Parker GhostWoman Studios

[KansDem]

50. Wealth is a lot like knowledge

It should be kept hidden and brought out only when needed...

Unfortunately, when both are flaunted senselessly, the bearer becomes boorish.

[girl gone mad]

52. I think you can make as much as you want..

as long as you don't live in Texas or Florida or San Diego or any other "red" area.

George Soros earns billions, but he lives in NYC, so he would be okay. Edwards earns millions, but lives in NC so he wouldn't be welcome.

[fasttense]

59. Soros is a repentant criminal capitalist.

What he did to Russia after the people fought for Democracy is a crime. He is a thief who is feeling guilty about the people he stole from.

[raccoon]

54. 100K. 80K if you live in a cheap area. :silly: nt

[MedleyMisty]

56. What's the minimum income one can make?

I think I made $14,000 last year - my husband and I together make around $30,000, I think. Am I not welcome around here?

[Bitwit1234]

57. What difference does it make how much money

as long as a person is receptive to those needy and poor, and have a soul I don't think we should set a limit.

[CTD]

61. More or less exactly my point.

nt

[CreekDog]

64. At least 1 billion, like George Soros

[Pathwalker]

72. Six cents a year. Any more and you're too rich.

n/t

[renie408]

73. If you are a REALLY good liberal and DUer, you have a high income and give it all to Skinner

or charity.

Or is that the same thing?

[NashVegas]

74. The Downside of Life in the 21st Century

The different socio-economic classes aren't forced to mix. As a result, those on the extreme ends only see each other at their worst.

[IronLionZion]

75. Warren Buffett, Steve Jobs, Bill Gates, and George Soros are not welcome here

in fact no one is really welcome here...other than me. If you disagree then you're obviously a freeper troll working for Hillary's campaign. The only thing worse than supporting Republicans, is supporting Democrats.

There can be no disagreement, nor any sort of diversity at all. This is all about pure lock-step homogenity of the fascist kind. The important thing is, I am the one who decides what you can think.

:sarcasm:

No matter what you want to think about the demographics of DU, never forget that this site is frequented by people who have access to the internet and have time to spend online.

The ugly side of certain members of the community do come out in situations like this fire, and during presidential primaries, and a few other times. As an Indian American, I feel the burn when supposedly progressive DUers make racist and ignorant comments regarding outsourcing or Bobby Jindal or even interracial relationships. I'm sure the gays feel the same way about anti-gay comments, women feel that way about misogynistic comments, of course Christians feel the burn frequently when getting lumped in with the fundies, and once in a while patriots feel it when DUers attack the people of the United States and not just our corrupt government. You can't always feel it until you are on the wrong side of it.

It's the motherfucking internet. More than half these people would never insult you to your face if they met you or got to know you. But to many (including me), DU just feels like nameless faceless text on a screen...

Take it in stride and hang in there. The good far outweighs the bullshit. You have to deal with this nonsense to better appreciate the good stuff.

[Kurovski]

76. Although I'm widely reviled, I find that my net worth of 32.5 million has little to do with it.

;-)

[blondeatlast]

82. I've ALWAYS loved you, I've just been to shy to admit it...

But desperate times call for the truth.

For Christmas, I'd like one of these...

http://www.smartusa.com/smart-car-color-selector.aspx

[Kurovski]

85. Blue's my favorite color too!

:D :hug:

[XemaSab]

78. 1000/year more than I make

:crazy:

[Ghost in the Machine]

79. Well, if you're not living in a VAN, down by the RIVER and growing your own food

while collecting foodstamps (but using them to support a soup kitchen) and using alternative medicine to heal yourself and your kids... well you're just not acceptable here.

:sarcasm:

[YOY]

80. What the f*** is "modest wealth"

Seriously??? I've seen disdain for true elites and trust fund babies as well as those who have over a million in investment or saving and like to pretend that they're magically elites. The disdain is more over their delusions and not their wealth however...

Or perhaps you're thinking of people here having disdain for those who are not taxed to the proper extent?

[CTD]

81. I'm merely talking about people who....

...actually have health insurance with decent coverage (through their jobs no less), aren't afraid of losing their house due to defaulting on their mortgage, are able to have one spouse stay home with the kids, own a single family home in a nice neighborhood with good schools and services/amenities, two newer cars, college savings in process, etc. Nothing fancy. Just having the bases covered.

[YOY]

83. Who the heck here is kicking on that?

Link??? Hell I wish I could afford a house but that's just due to the market being ridiculously inflated. I like to blame those who bought into the variable interest rate mortgage bS myself but they are losing everything at this moment or soon will.

I've actually seen more DUers kind of say "You got yourself in your own mess" to many folks who are losing their houses to the sheer stupidity of variable interest rate mortgages. It's not as though they are hated, but other than wishing them to land on their feet that's the limitation of the pity.

[Mutineer]

84. If the house you own is worth more than 100K apparently you're suspected

of being a Repug.

[Zing Zing Zingbah]

87. That would be most home owners these days n/t