Are there ecological limits to economic growth?

[More Than A Feeling]

[panader0]

1. Yes, of course.

I live in so. Arizona, where the growth of the past twenty plus years has put an incredible strain on the water supply. Overpopulation is a serious issue. I don't want to end up eating Soylent Green.

[Igel]

11. But that's population growth and resource utilization.

Can you imagine an economy that is both prosperous, in which people have a good and healthy standard of living, and in which resources were used in a sustainable manner?

I think I can. If we used fusion, wind, and solar power, and recycled everything, we'd presumably be able to reduce the amount of virgin resources we consume. Then, given increases in productivity and social/mindset changes, there's no reason that everybody couldn't go for a more simple lifestyle that nonetheless produced more of greater worth and usefulness.

Dunno. We're primates, so I don't see the needed changes in society and mentality. You never know, though.

[piedmont]

2. My gosh, of course! nt

[porphyrian]

3. Yes and no.

It takes a total lack of imagination and inventiveness to say that all economic growth is ecologically limited. It is likewise preposterous to suggest that there are no ecological limits to economic growth, given the empirical evidence of the effects of under-regulated capitalism. We need to learn to play our game without destroying the board or the game will end. I believe we can keep playing.

[blues90]

4. I think we have long past the point

Economic growth is killing the planet . we have gone far past the point of no return . the earth can only sustain so many people .

People need to cut back on population explosion and think far ahead unless they want to be sitting side by side breathing filth and drinking piss .

[taterguy]

5. Check with the folks in the thriving metropolis of Portsmouth, NC.

Once upon a time it was one of the largest cities on the East Coast. Now it's uninhabited.

[MADem]

6. Depends on what ecological system you're talking about.

On this planet, sure...but space...the final frontier? That's another kettle of fish...

[Uncle Joe]

8. I checked yes, but if we had other for a choice, I would agree with you. n/t

[Chulanowa]

7. Absolutely

And it's something I've been thinking on for a while.

Economics is driven by resources. Oil, water, metals, wood, farmland, etc. Without these natural resources, wealth is worthless. A rapidly-growing economy consumes resources rapidly, even if the population is too small to effectively use all the wealth and resources at their disposal. The end result is that when the population finally catches up to the growth, a crash happens because most of the resources needed are now scarce.

Rapid, constant economic growth is dangerous to our economic well-being. It sounds great for a soundbite, "our economy is growing!" but no politician or economist will dare talk about this, the inevitable hitting of the breaks due to our resources being non-renewable. Even farmland shrinks as the population grows.

The best economy is one that grows at a steady, slightly faster pace than the population does, in order to allow for the occasional spike in population.

[1932]

9. Humans are pretty smart. With the right incentives, we could probably find a good way to deal with

this issue.

[Karenina]

10. I said that when I was 10

with the caveat that I feared that even if we figured out a solution, dumb people would obstruct the process.

I'm 57 today. Wish me Many Happy Returns, bitte. :hi::toast:

[Swamp Rat]

12. Ja!

You so smawt, dawlin'! :D :hug:

[Karenina]

13. . .

[Swamp Rat]

14. The evil that lizards do

[Karenina]

15. ACCKKK!

You need to warn a person...

[yella_dawg]

16. The Capitalist Model used in the west requires constant growth

to survive. Because the Earth is finite, the Capitalist Model is inherently unstable in the long term. My personal belief is that we are currently witnessing growing instabilities.


Unless technology gets us the hell off this planet, in an economically meaningful way, and soon, technology loses the race.

[More Than A Feeling]

17. Buy off people who might complain about inequality with economic growth, right?

So when there isn't any more growth...

[yella_dawg]

18. It's more fundamental than that

I'm no economist, so I can't explain it well. However, the claim is vindicated both theoretically and anecdotally. Any company that doesn't grow fails or is bought up. In a sense, it is similar to biological competition, except that biology wins by increasing population, economy wins by growing ever larger. Basically, monopoly in inevitable, and if a monopoly isn't broken artificially, it will die of suffocation. Microsoft actually made a good product until the early nineties. The same problems plagued the British imperial entities. Once they could no longer grow, they became unstable.