2 questions for DUerswho think there is no difference between Dems and Repubs

[skipos]

1. How would have today's SCHIP vote have turned out if there were 20 more Dems in congress?
2. Would a Democratic President have vetoed this bill?

I am disappointed with congress, but how can anyone claim "there is no difference between Democrats and Republicans" when almost all Democrats voted for this? How can anyone who claimed Gore or Kerry was no better than Bush think that Gore and Kerry would have vetoed this if they were in the Whitehouse right now?

edit:spelling

[AuntPatsy]

1. People are just frustrated but they shouldnt echo the mating calls

of the republicans so often, it takes away from ensuring the truth is heard.

[TwilightGardener]

2. What good are philosophical differences between the parties if the Democrats

don't do what is necessary (including fighting fire with fire in terms of dirty tricks and political jujitsu) to turn those differences into meaningful legislation?

[sinkingfeeling]

5. OK, how would you have convinced 50+ GOP Representatives to support

SCHIP? I want to know how Nancy & company failed in their leadership roles.

[TwilightGardener]

7. I actually think they did an OK job on SCHIP, specifically--but they cave

in too many other instances (like telecom immunity, for a current example). I don't blame them for not ending the war yesterday, like many on DU--but there are countless other (smaller) battles that we could have won, but didn't--because our Dem leadership does not want to appear weak on terror, or doesn't want to alienate donors, or doesn't want to "rock the boat" before 2008.

[TwilightZone]

3. The "there's no difference" claim is little more than a self-serving, attention-seeking device.

It's a convenient excuse to avoid discussing the issues. Nothing more.

Of course, you're exactly right. With a larger majority and/or a Democratic president, the bill passes. Very obvious example of a difference between the parties.

[sinkingfeeling]

4. We know that had we 20 more Democrats in the House or one in the WH, SCHIP would

have been expanded to those who need help. However, I'm sick of all these DUers who just like to bash anything attempted by the Congressional Democrats. "They're all losers." "The leadership is weak." I think I'll go throw up!

[bryant69]

6. People don't think there is no difference between them

They think there is no difference between the results of electing Republicans and the results of Electing Democrats.

Bryant

[TwilightGardener]

8. Right--there definitely ARE differences between the parties, but the

end results usually favor the GOP.

[riqster]

9. People who think thus look at hifalutin poltical theory

...and ignore the obvious differences in the human condition that follow from the rule of two DIFFERENT parties.

They say "not good enough" if 100,000 more children are fed, because not all children are fed.
They say "not good enough" if one Reep gets booted out of office, because not all Reeps are gone.
They say "not good enough" if the Dems hold hearings (when Reeps held none), because the problems were not fixed by the end of the hearing.

These people are not part of the reality-based community, and in my mind are far more similar to Reeps than they would like to admit. There are huge differences between Dems and Reeps. The Naderesque "no difference" loons should climb out of their ivory towers and get their hands dirty in homeless shelters, soup kitchens, disaster sites etc. I have been doing so for decades and have seen the difference.

The Dems are not Left enough for me, but they are SO much better then the Reeps.

[endarkenment]

10. Strawman.

The claim is not that there are 'no differences'. At least that is not my claim or belief. Instead, my belief is that the Democratic Party functions as the left wing of the Duopoly. There is a Duopoly and it has a left wing and a right wing and there are differences within the duopoly regarding how exactly we peasants ought to be treated. I find it quite charming that you think this profoundly important sideshow over SCHIP is proof that there is no duopoly and that we are not being gamed. There is great unanimity within the Duopoly over trivial matters such as the Fake Global War on Terror, the Fake War on Some Drugs, tossing diversions such as mandated private insurance programs in front of the popular demand for universal single payer healthcare, doing nothing at all meaningful about the catastrophic climate change crisis, continuing the rapacious neoliberal economic programs of the last 30 years, dismantling the last remnants of individual freedom and constitutional protections from the new 21st century fascist state, and dealing with the peak oil crisis by playing king of the hill with mesopotamia. That Duopoly.

[skipos]

12. Nice. Two birds with one stone on that one

1. You used "strawman," one of the most misused and overused words on DU.
2. Even though I ask a genuine question without insult, wou laced your post with condescension by finding it "charming."
Congratulations.

People claim there is "no difference" all the time. I can't imagine you haven't seen the posts. One of the pioneers of the Gore=Bush sentiment was Ralph Nader, and many agreed with him.

E: You said during your campaign that it didn't really matter if Al Gore or George W. Bush won the election.
Nader: That's right.
http://www.emagazine.com/view/?696

Nader said that a Gore presidency "wouldn't have been any different in terms of military and foreign policy."
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/4304155/

Sounds like "no difference."

[endarkenment]

13. There you go...

"wouldn't have been any different in terms of military and foreign policy" becomes "no difference".

There are areas of great unanimity within the duopoly, as I stated, and our military and foreign policy is manifestly one of those areas.

[Bitwit1234]

11. This vote shows the difference between democrats and republicans

Democrats CARE about the children who are poor and needy. The republicans CARE about how much money they can steal from the government.

Not only is bush the worst president we have ever had, and I bet the worst we will ever have, he is a disgrace to the human race.

[defendandprotect]

14. Would a Democratic president overturn 60 years of welfare guarantees -- ???

[defendandprotect]

15. Would a Democratic president have plans to partially privatize Medicare?

[defendandprotect]

16. Would a Democratic president support DLC/neo-con GOP values . . . ?

[endarkenment]

18. shush. They are very different. Stop that.

[Tesha]

17. We don't actually claim there's "NO DIFFERENCE"; that's a straw man.

We don't actually claim there's "NO DIFFERENCE";
that's a straw man. What we usually claim is that
there isn't *ENOUGH* difference.

And they pretty much daily prove that, for example,
when they gave Bush his next $150 Billion to blow
up Iraq.

Tesha

[defendandprotect]

19. Control behind both parties is corporate -- disprove that --- !! !!! !!!

Exactly --- !!! What is said is that there isn't enough of a difference . .. .

There is no denying that the masters behind both parties are corporations --
disprove that and you may have a point ---

[stuartrida]

20. Notice that no one is answering your question

Around here, when people don't like the question asked, they say "straw man" and ignore it.
Since the makes-no-difference crowd won't answer, I will.
1. It would have passed.
2. No

[endarkenment]

22. We are still waiting for the DUer who thinks there is NO difference.

Until then I suggest holding your breath.

[Kurt_and_Hunter]

21. 2 questions for DUers who think there is no difference between Dems and Repubs...

1) Are you retarded?
2) No, seriously... are you retarded?

It is high time to stop even dignifying the "they're all the same" crowd with the pretense that they're persuadable. It is not a rational stance amenable to argument. It is a personality disorder. Some will outgrow it. Others are, sadly, trapped in their self-centered, sub-rational mind-set for life.

It is more reasonable to say the Earth is flat... I have never seen the Earth from space, but I've seen republicans in action my whole life.

[Tesha]

23. How would today's SCHIP vote have turned out if there were 20 more progressives...

How would today's SCHIP vote have turned out if there
were 20 more progressives (of any party) in Congress?

Would a Socialist President have vetoed the bill?

Democrats don't have a monopoly on the good answers.

Tesha

[skipos]

25. A Socialist president=not likely at all

(if France can't get one we can't get one).
A Democratic president=very likely.

Who said the Democrats have a monopoly on the good answers? They don't. However, they get elected President. Socialists don't.

[leftofthedial]

24. I've heard very few people claim that there is NO difference

merely that the differences are relatively minor when one considers that the large majority of congressional "democrats," like their repuke peers, are:

pro-war

anti-impeachment

pro-corporate

pro-tax cuts for the wealthy

pro-torture

pro-elimination of civil liberties

anti-election reform

etc.