Phony Soldiers? Soldiers who vote Republican don't fight for my freedom

[liberaldemocrat7]

Phony Soldiers? Soldiers who vote Republican don't fight for my freedom
but instead they fight for cheap labor employers who do not like an adequate minimum wage or product safety or workplace safety or regulation of business, price gouging gasoline companies, price gouging pharmaceutical companies and an authoritarian Republican party that mainly cares about white wealthy people to the detriment of other people.

Join the new progressive forum at http://progressives.aceboard.com/

[cali]

1. I don't consider that any of those dumped in Iraq by bushco

are "fighting for freedom"- mine or anyone else's, but to dump on them for how they vote, using a right wing meme straight of of Limbaugh's mouth? Ridiculous, and just ugh.

[liberaldemocrat7]

3. Yes I will "dump on soldiers for how they vote."

I can say that here in America. If a soldier consciously votes for a party whose members predominately do not care about anyone but their friends and family but noone else I will say they do not fight for my freedom.


If you don't like this, you don't have to. I do like what I said and I stand by it.

[cynatnite]

5. I'm of the mind that any person who puts on a uniform...

willing to die for this country deserves a certain amount of respect no matter how they vote. I'm a veteran, btw.

[atreides1]

40. I was never willing to die

I understood the dangers of enlisting, and realized that death was a possibility should we go to war! Hell, death was a possibility during training exercises.

But, I always believed that it was better for the bad guys to die, while trying to avoid that long trip into the light.

But I believe that most now enlist for the free education benefits and the medical coverage that is available for their families, while others do it for the chance to kill a "raghead", only a small percentage do it for patriotic reasons, or even believe in the Constitution that they swear allegiance too.

Respect like loyalty is something you earn first, not because of wearing a uniform but because of what you did while wearing the uniform.

You see I have no respect for Stephen Greene or his buddies, I find it very difficult to respect a murderer and child rapist, or the enlisted members of the Abu Ghraib Torture team.

But like you I don't base things on how people vote, this is still a free country.

And yes I'm a veteran as well.

[cynatnite]

58. I joined for a job and the educational benefits...

and I totally agree, too. Knew that I could go to war and die. Knew that I could leave my little one motherless, but I had so little to offer her by not joining. I had no education and no decent job skills. I felt that I could do more for her by serving my country and providing for her.

My time in the service did far more for me than provide a job and benefits. It really shaped the person I am today. We had some of the most incredible drill sergeants who took the time to really teach us about the concept of war, sacrifice and service. Most of them had combat experience.

When a servicemember commits horrific acts while on duty it really hurts the military. I was part of the military at a time when it was at it's best, IMO. This was during the mid to late 80's. We were about integrity, doing our jobs with excellence and being grateful for every single day of peace. Now, given how low the standards have gotten and this war it seems like the military I knew is all but gone. It really saddens me, too.

[cali]

14. It's always amusing to see people adopting rush limbaugh's

language and tactics.

[cynatnite]

28. I find it disturbing anyone would want to...on the icky side, too n/t

[sicksicksick_N_tired]

72. It's just as repugnant as the 'original'.

So, why do it? :shrug:

[cynatnite]

2. 'Fighting for freedom'....

well, I don't think any soldier is fighting for our freedom in this horrible war, but the rest of what you said...based on how they vote? Nope, don't think so.

[liberaldemocrat7]

6. See my reply to the other gentleman.

Oh and the Phony soldiers appeared before a question mark in my post as to contrast my remark to Rush Limbaugh.

[Sneaky Sailor]

4. I keep forgetting we are just supposed to

refuse to go...


The soldiers and sailors I have fought with are my brothers and sisters, no matter what their politics. Pretty lame, I'd say...

[42gnat1]

7. And what my surprise you

is that most don't care if you like their politics or not.

[Sneaky Sailor]

8. Yep

Hell I get ragged on as the Democrat in the Wardroom but noone hates me for it.

[42gnat1]

9. The wardroom.......

On a submarine no doubt.

[Sneaky Sailor]

10. Nahh

Surface ship...

[42gnat1]

13. You mean "Targets"

Don't you? Admit it.

[Sneaky Sailor]

15. Was on Subs when I was Enlisted

I am a Surface guy (and part-time army stooge when I am on IA) and I wont play the little Sumariner games anymore.

[42gnat1]

17. Without giving up too much

info, I was on fast attacks until I went LDO. Then I went to a Boomer. I miss the fast attacks.

[Sneaky Sailor]

18. Boomer guy here :) n/t

[42gnat1]

29. I no longer

"Hide with Pride". I got my gold dolphins and now they have no billets for a knuckle dragging torpedoman. Just waiting for my 30 years to come around.

[liberaldemocrat7]

11. I do not hate Republicans. I do not hate George W Bush.

However I vehemently oppose the economic and social policies of the late 20th and 21st century REPUBLIKLAN Party and I will stand by the statement I made about soldiers who fight over there and then ruin freedom over here by voting Republican.

During World War II African American soldiers discussed a double V for Victory. Victory over Fascism abroad and Victory over Racism at home.

I'm talking about fighting over in other countries and fighting against Republican economic and social policies here.

[Sneaky Sailor]

12. Fair enough

However there are many in the military who see their best interest in the republican party. Also a huge majority of military personnel come in with a very conservative mindset, reenforced by the lifestyle they lead in the military.

[liberaldemocrat7]

20. Well, soldiers ought to realize that 49 million working people in America

voted Democratic for President in 2004 and do not believe in the present day Republican party ethic which reduces freedom for a lot of people.

When you fight for cheap labor Republicans you fight to reduce people's freedom by devaluing the work people do with lower salaries than they should get and by outsourcing jobs and leaving Americans unemployed also with less freedom than they had when they had a job.

Voting produces consequences and soldiers ought to realize this.

[Sneaky Sailor]

35. Soldiers are working people too

Most are underpaid and mistreated and get shot at to boot.

Thanks for the lecture though!

[liberaldemocrat7]

44. The soldiers who get underpaid and vote Republican vote against their own interests

and fall for Republican party propaganda.

[42gnat1]

55. I enlisted under a Democratic President

Are you saying that I must have fallen for Democratic propaganda? JFK was also in the military under a Democratic president. The same allpies to him?

I'm here because I love what I do. I knew every step of the way that I could go to war at anytime. Did that make me a victim of propaganda?

[liberaldemocrat7]

94. No, Voting Republican, means falling for the propaganda.

Signing up does not mean falling for propaganda.

[42gnat1]

16. Did you see "The War"

Ken Burns on PBS? The strength of these men to want to fight for their country when they were relegated to supply and support units only to face the same racism. When they fought at Iwojima they were tough and brave as any Marine on the the island.

That was a generation of the greatest patriots.

[Sneaky Sailor]

19. The whole generation was brave and strong

Unfortunately, they did something wrong with their kids, which screwed up there kids (me) I can only imagine what my kids will be like.

[sufrommich]

21. The term "phony soldiers" should only be used to

describe people who claim to be in the military,who aren't. Calling a soldier "phony" because you don't care for their political choices shows you to have the same lack of critical thinking skills as Rush. Congratulations.

[liberaldemocrat7]

22. I'm not calling them phony soldiers. I merely contrasted my view with Rush

Limbaugh.

However, such soldiers who vote Republican do not fight for my freedom.

[cali]

23. Why are you under the illusion that any soldier in Iraq

or elsewhere is "fighting for your freedom"?

[Sneaky Sailor]

24. We just fight

because we like killing civilians and drinking their blood.:sarcasm:

[cali]

26. Did I say that? No.

I believe soldiers fight because that their job, because their looking our for their buddies, etc. Do you actually fucking believe that the war in Iraq has anything to do with our "freedom"?
Please.

[Sneaky Sailor]

31. I appreciate you understanding the motivations of soldiers

It is a rare thing.

And I appreciate your use of language, nice.

[cali]

34. Look, I apologize for the language but you insinuated

that I thought that soldiers were just rank killers, and I don't and said nothing to lead you to that conclusion. Can you answer my question? Do you believe Iraq is a war for "our freedoms"?

[42gnat1]

39. No. You are insinuated that the reason they are fighting is

because it's their job and want to protect their buddies. There is much more to it than that. Ask any active duty or veteran on this board.

I get sick of our military being protrayed as either being victims of poverty or murderers by those who never served. There is an in between that gets ignored.

[Squatch]

43. Umm...I'm active duty and I agree with Cali

[Sneaky Sailor]

45. I am active duty as well and do not agree

Oh...my active duty credentials dont make me automatiacally credible...here is my suprised face :o

[bullwinkle428]

47. The right-wing media has pushed this "fighting for our freedoms" meme

ever since the run-up to the invasion & conquest of Iraq. I can't really say I've heard that from any of the soldiers involved; it's really more of a propaganda push from the Faux News types and their allies, as well as those clueless sheep in positions of influence throughout the media.

[pampango]

25. Are the soldiers in Iraq who vote Democratic fighting for your freedom? n/t

[sufrommich]

27. Soldiers fight where their directed to fight.

They don't get a vote in it. There may be a lot of soldiers who don't agree with our reasons for being there or that it has anything to do with your freedom.

[sufrommich]

33. Ugh,"they're' directed.

Geez, I cringe when I see others do that.Time for more coffee.

[42gnat1]

36. Exactly

The organization Stolen Valor has made it a mission to go after these guys. Actor Brian Denehy and Sen. Tom Harkin (my home state of Iowa)was subjected to telling the truths about their service after being investigated by this group.

There is also an organization that goes after those who claim to belong to the special forces.

[ShortnFiery]

85. This Army Veteran thanks you for your thoughtful opinion.

;) :hi:

I've been accused of being a phony military veteran TWICE here on DU. :grr: I was not only aghast but unnerved. Some people were tracking on my comments ... and I being pushing 50 and not "paying attention to detail" typed that, after 20 years out of ROTC, that I was not as realistic. Well, it's been 26 years since I was out of ROTC.

You wouldn't believe what a NINE-th degree I had to endure complete with cited URLS! :wow: :scared:

And I'm here to tell you, it's all because I'm a person who loves the Military but who detests "Unbridled Authority" in or out of uniform.

Although the Mods thoughtfully deleted the sub thread (I provided a lot more details than I should have on a message board to confirm my authenticity so I'm thankful for that), words can NOT describe the mix of sadness and outrage that I was "accused of being a phony vet" here on this excellent *Democratic* website.

In politics, the scummy behavior can be found within both parties ... it's just a sad fact. Just sad. :(

[Squatch]

30. As a soldier, I am not fighting for your freedom.

I get so sick of that meme, from both sides: "soldiers are fighting for FREEDOM!!!" (Cue Braveheart)

[Sneaky Sailor]

32. I am sick of that

And I am sick of the word "meme" but that is a diffrent story.

[cali]

37. Thank you once again, Squatch. n/t

[Squatch]

42. With a very few notable exceptions, most of us

soldiers, sailors, airmen, marines, coasties, and yes, dammit, even the Merchant Marines are just ordinary people pulling down a paycheck while in the military service. We are not cut from different cloth nor do we, as a whole, deserve the reverence we encounter in the course of our daily lives. (That gets real old real fast, BTW)

You want to thank real heroes? Go to your elementary, middle, or high school right now and hug each and every teacher you see. Or thank a hospice nurse. Or a veterinary intern. Those kinds of people are heroes (at least in my book)

[42gnat1]

49. Merchant Marines?

Not military.

Most of us don't want accolades. Real heroes don't brag. But for crying out loud, don't base your support on whether we are Democrats or Republicans (like the OP did). If a FReeper said that same thing to me, I would tell him to pound sand.

Most of us don't give a damn.

edited for spelling

[Squatch]

61. Wrong again, Hero.

"The merchant marine is not a uniformed service, except in times of war when, in accordance with the Merchant Marine Act of 1936, mariners are considered military personnel."

[Sneaky Sailor]

73. Merchant Marines

Only become military personnel during DECLARED war. Right now the Merchant Marine functions are carried out by the Military Sealift Command, all civilian DOD contractors...

[Squatch]

75. Do you have a reading comprehension problem, too?

Quote "...even the Merchant Marines are just ordinary people pulling down a paycheck while in the military service."

[Sneaky Sailor]

78. I know what you said

I was just pointing out that the MM was not in the service now, which seemed to be what was implied in your last post.

:hi:

[Squatch]

80. Egads.

"...the MM was not in the service now"

Yikes.

[Sneaky Sailor]

84. Yikes indeed

I am assuming you are in the Army? Officer of Enlisted?

[42gnat1]

38. History of every war

Whether it be the Revolutionary, Civil War or WWII. Even Vietnam. They have freed millions and millions. That is the idea, IMHO. They are fighing for their country. No other one on earth as great as ours.

[Squatch]

41. Give me a break...

Iraqis sure were in bondage before we got there. Their lives are soooooo much better now.

[pampango]

46. Most soldiers probably want to believe in what they are doing.

You are right. Iraqis were oppressed before we got there. Now they are enduring chaos. Which is better? I suppose if I am being oppressed then chaos does not seem like a bad alternative. OTOH, if I am enduring chaos, then oppression might seem like a reasonable alternative.

As others have well stated, soldiers fight to stay alive, for their buddies, because it is their job, for many reasons. But I wouldn't be surprised if many were able to convince themselves that they are fighting "bad guys", at least in part, so that Iraqis have a chance at more "freedom" than they have had in the past.

Is that a "realistic" mindset? I have my doubts, but I am not over there with bullets whizzing (hopefully) over my head. Iraqis veterans whom I know have positive feelings about Iraqi civilians and hopes for their future, even though they question much of what has gone on there.

[42gnat1]

48. So you disagree that history

of our country, that we don't fight for freedom? That is the subject that we are on, now. Yes or No will suffice. Didn't mention Iraq, did I?

[Squatch]

50. You will not dictate to me how I respond to your drivel.

The US forces do not "fight for freedom". We fight to support and defend OUR United States Consitution, or did they not teach you that when you enlisted?

How the application of force in Iraq meets that goal of defense of OUR laws, I have no idea.

[42gnat1]

51. The Constitution is our FREEDOM

They didn't teach you that when you enlisted?

Let's stick to the subject at hand, shall we? I will ask again:

Did we not fight for FREEDOM in the Revolutionary, Civil and WWII wars? Once again YES or NO.

[Sneaky Sailor]

52. I could give you the right wing view.

Or I could tell you once again that I never said one way or the other what I felt about the mission in IRAQ (because it is not appropriate for active duty service members to critisize orders).

[42gnat1]

53. He should have learned

that when he enlisted.

Notice I won't comment either. I save that for when I get home, out of my uniform and not representing the Navy.

[Sneaky Sailor]

54. Amen

....

[Squatch]

57. So, you're posting on DU while on duty?

Fraud, waste, and abuse.

[42gnat1]

59. Same goes

for you, too, Sparky. Fraud waste abuse and not knowing much when you enlisted.....

[Squatch]

60. I'm on leave, Jackass.

What makes you so sure I EVER enlisted?

[lonestarnot]

64. Go get in your popeye suit and start defending then.

[Sneaky Sailor]

70. I am indeed

Strong to the finish...

Because I eats my spinach...

[lonestarnot]

74. I'll be you're convinced too.

:eyes:

[Sneaky Sailor]

79. Not sure what your driving at there

did you mean "I'll BET you're convinced too."?

Convinced of what?

[Squatch]

56. Are you sure you're in the right place?

DU is a place for people, including soldiers, to question, discuss, or otherwise examine a wide range of topics, including the current military action in Iraq. The fact that I am an active duty soldier does not mean that I am exempted from nor restricted in my ability to speak freely of topics that do not compromise our national security. Criticizing the war is a RIGHT that all Americans may or may not choose, of their own free will, to exercise.

Typical of Right Wing Bushbots, present company OBVIOUSLY excluded (:sarcasm:), they follow orders given to them from on high blindly and without a moment of critical thinking.

This active duty guy says end the war in Iraq and chalk it up as a blunder, a folly, if you will, of monumental proportions.

[Sneaky Sailor]

62. Yeah thats what I am

A right wing BUSHBOT, your a funny guy.

[Squatch]

63. And you couldn't spell your way out of a paper bag, genius.

[Sneaky Sailor]

67. I am typing fast

And no I am not an outstanding speller, sorry, I didnt realize I needed to be able to spell to talk to a man who has so clearly demostrated his genius to me. :puke:

[Squatch]

68. You can thank me later.

[Sneaky Sailor]

65. You are a very angry man BTW

Do you want to tear me down further or accuse me of something else, or are you done.

[Squatch]

66. WTF? Do you need a hug or something?

There, there...sailor. Everything's going to be alright.

[Sneaky Sailor]

69. Interesting

Its like you cant get through a post without an Ad hominem attack...

[Sneaky Sailor]

87. Thanks for the hug BTW

I appreciated it... :loveya:

[ShortnFiery]

88. I'm angry too Squatch. I'm also saddened that

the Army whom my father and I loved and served in is being abused by those who wish to keep their stock portfolios fat and sassy. The military that helped us out of the working poor and into the middle classes has been ABUSED by this criminal administration.

I'm saddened that those representatives, both democratic and republican, who glibly dismiss their oath to protect and defend our beloved Constitution.

I'm saddened that civilians in the Pentagon have purged MOST general officers of moral integrity from active duty.

And I'm also "as mad as hell" and I will not obey "dear leaders" if it means the loss of our liberties that brave men and women in uniform have fought and died to protect.

Yes, I'm angry too, but I won't lay down for either ghoulish neo-cons OR neo-liberals. :grr:

[lonestarnot]

71. Go suck a spinach and read the Constitution. They are not standard issue, and you'll

have to buy a copy. Do they pay you enough to buy one?

[Sneaky Sailor]

76. I have a pocket Constituiton in fact

And a fairly well read in it...is there some reference you would like me to read, or do you just want to continue to insult me?

[42gnat1]

77. So do I n/t

[lonestarnot]

82. Someone apparently TRIED to help you.

[lonestarnot]

81. Read the fucking thing would be my first suggestion as you apparently are not aware

that the unitary executive is not in it.

[Squatch]

83. ....

:spray: :rofl:

[Sneaky Sailor]

86. I am all over it brother

Ive been saying that for a long time, POTUS has been acting out of its bounds in my assertion for almost 100 years and consistently for about 60.

[ShortnFiery]

89. Then let's pull together? With or without group hugs?

:rofl:

[Sneaky Sailor]

92. Aww come on

One for the road.

I am going to go PT.

:loveya:

[ShortnFiery]

93. Airborne ... 1 2 3 HUGs

:rofl: Come on get closer? Make your buddy smile! :hug:

[lonestarnot]

90. Well it looks as though we could agree on something.

:toast:

[ShortnFiery]

91. For officers ... (many Co Grade are resigning in droves) tasked to "catapult the propaganda"

If you wish for a career in the military as An Officer, you have to fully drink of the Civilian Leadership's koolaid, no matter how bitter. :puke:

[Sneaky Sailor]

95. I only have 5 years left

I hope I dont have to go to the sandbox again...

[42gnat1]

96. Not necessarily true

I am a Sr Officer and I drink nobodies Kool Aid and I have a pretty damn good paycheck. But then again I don't concern myself with hurting anybodies feelings either. It's not like they can fire me.

Take care everybody and thanks for making my first real thread a lively one!! See ya later, Skimmer.